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What rework would you like to see in the future (if there will be any)?

RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 2,408
In short:
  • Animation rework - matched combat for ordinary units.
  • Gods rework - making them more fickle and adding conflicts between them.
  • Helen rework - adding more events and dilemmas when she is captured by non-Paris/Menelaus factions.
  • Motivation/Court rework - adding court system for each hero (Agamemnon would need some special court) and new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system.

What rework would you like to see in the future (if there will be any)?

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This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.

Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
ROMEII
GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
ATTILA
GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
THRONES OF BRITANNIA
Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
WARHAMMER 1 & 2
W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
THREE KINGDOMS
MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
TROY
Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Sarpedon.
ROME REMASTERED
RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.

Comments

  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 174
    Helen rework
    1 - Helen rework (Much needed fix).
    2 - Animation rework (This is what was sold in the Blood & Glory trailer).
    3 - Gods rework (An interesting and very welcome mechanics).
  • GloatingSwineGloatingSwine Registered Users Posts: 1,103
    Helen rework
    Helen is literally the reason the whole war started.

    She should feel a lot more significant.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 4,238
    Motivation/Character/Court rework
    Animation Rework
    I'm actually fine with not having synched combat animations for regular units. I rarely ever zoom in close to take notice of them anyway. And from what I understand, having synched combat animations between thousands of units on screen at any one time actually hurt game performance in the past. So I'd rather have better overall game performance than combat animations.

    Gods Rework
    I think they're fine as they are, honestly. I feel like adding something like a new tier below "Neglected" and increasing the occurrences of natural disasters or negative events happening when a God falls into that tier would just be a pain. Having to constantly keep tabs on the Gods and spending food on Hecatombs every few turns, or running Priestesses around the map to perform rituals just sounds like a lot of annoying busywork to avoid some slightly-more-annoying consequences.

    Helen Rework
    Seems kind of essential, given how central she is to the whole story. Strange that nothing more has really been done about her yet.

    Motivation/Court rework
    I think Motivation is an interesting idea, and gives characters a little more personality - if they're not doing something they find personally rewarding or enjoy, then they become less effective at their assigned job. But the bonuses and penalties from positive and negative motivation seem to have very little impact on anything. If there was more uses for characters aside from just being generals, then I think it'd have great potential.
    I feel like the utilization of characters is something that TW games in general have never really done as well as they could be. I feel like there should be more roles for characters, aside from just being generals or governors; employing them as diplomats, spies, or merchants could open up some interesting new ways of playing the games.
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 653
    edited November 22
    Other
    -double post-
    Post edited by Lotor12 on
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,373
    Motivation/Character/Court rework
    If there was one mechanic that I don't like its motivation the personality of some heroes leads to their motivations being too easy to maintain or too hard to maintain. I agree with Whiskeyjack maybe because I have been spoiled by 3K but I would like heroes to have either assignment or be used as defenders instead of the generic heroes that guard a settlement.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 653
    Other
    @RafSwi7
    There is not option for most important element of Total War titles in Your pool - battles

    I do not think, there is need for "reworks" in Troy, but for fixes, balancing, and battle improvements

    Again, as I wrote in previous post about "reworks"- Firstly, we need to discuss, where are the problems in the game, The Troy has "Mostly Positive" rating (70%) on Steam, what is low within TW franchise, I think only ToB has lower rating 67%

    Helen Mechanic
    Here is problem in situations, when other factions capture settlement with Helen, this mechanic needs to be simple adjusted to deal with these situations

    Here is the steam discussion, where player asks developers for fixing it
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/1099410/discussions/0/3038229380331027889/

    "It was totally stupid that when Helene get captured by an allies, the allies can not send her back to you ... sometime you was even oblige to declare war to Hector your own brother to retake Helene"

    Gods rework & Motivation/Character/Court rework
    I would like to ask - Why to fix (or "rework") something, what is not broken, and works well?

    "adding court system for each hero (Agamemnon would need some special court) and new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system."

    Why?

    The Troy is designated great in campaign part - every faction has 2 unique and interesting mechanics, the court mechanic is unique to Agamemnon, everything is "how it should be" here

    Again, the motivation system works well - it determines the role of the heroes in the campaign and how to use them effectively, the player can not ignore it, otherwise will face penalties,

    The new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system can cause more problems and unbalance
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 653
    edited November 22
    Other
    Where I see the "weak point" in Troy, is battle part

    I would like to see:

    "AI control for reinforcements like in WH2"
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/300272/ai-control-for-reinforcements-in-troy-like-in-warhammer-2#latest
    Or AI group control, like in older titles, the larger battles are too chaotic

    Rework of missile trajectory
    Peltasts and Slinger should not abble to shot through/above the obstacles - walls, buildings, moutains etc., in 60 degree angle or so



    This is not only cosmetic thing - "slingers do not shot in nice way" , but affects gameplay as well , these slingers and peltasts are too effective in situations, where they should not be effective, and it breaks "immersion" in the game

    Battle improvemnts - Units collsion, Units reaction to orders
    For example amazon cavalry can pass through enemy units like chariots, units collsion on the walls especially
  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 653
    Other
    I would like to see public order building for minor settlents - like in this situation



    I wanted to keep this town (other settlements are owned by my ally) for bronze production, but I could not hold it due to public order
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,408
    Helen rework
    Lotor12 said:

    @RafSwi7
    There is not option for most important element of Total War titles in Your pool - battles

    I have not created "battle" option in the poll as most battle issues you have mentioned (like collisions, missile trajectory or unit AI control can be fixed by patches or by mods if someone is knowledgeable enough). I agree with you, I hope we will see improvements in this area.
    Lotor12 said:


    Helen Mechanic
    Here is problem in situations, when other factions capture settlement with Helen, this mechanic needs to be simple adjusted to deal with these situations

    Here is the steam discussion, where player asks developers for fixing it
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/1099410/discussions/0/3038229380331027889/

    "It was totally stupid that when Helene get captured by an allies, the allies can not send her back to you ... sometime you was even oblige to declare war to Hector your own brother to retake Helene"

    If they can rework the Emperor in 3K, I am sure they can create some nice system for Helen in Troy, where we as players would be able to decide her fate (when we capture her) and also negotiate her "release" from other factions (where friendly factions would give her back to you for a small gift, while enemies would never return her to you).

    In general I do really hope for Helen rework, as she should have much bigger presence in the game as the main reason behind the war.
    Lotor12 said:


    Gods rework & Motivation/Character/Court rework
    I would like to ask - Why to fix (or "rework") something, what is not broken, and works well?

    Just because something works alright, it does not mean that in cannot be furhter improved into something greater. For example, Emperor system worked "fine" before Emperor's rework. Rome 2 campaign system worked "alright" before Politics and Family reworks. Still, reworks happened and fleshed out all these elements making them more interactive and fun.

    Among these two (gods/motivation systems), gods system is more than alright and IMHO is fun. The only suggestion here is that some people would like to see gods in game being more faithful to the source material. In Iliad gods often ignored mortals, worked against them and in general were very fickle, while in the game they are very static and have unpredictability of excel spreadsheet. One thing that I REALLY don't like about the current sytem is that it only rewards, and these rewards are player only. I simply think that it would be more fun if for example I could have faced an enemy army that has Ares favour, that would debuff morale of my units, or a situation where god gives me a campaign penalty as I am ignoring him in hecatombs. If anything all of these changes should be in mythic mode, where they would make most sense.
    Lotor12 said:

    "adding court system for each hero (Agamemnon would need some special court) and new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system."

    Why?

    The Troy is designated great in campaign part - every faction has 2 unique and interesting mechanics, the court mechanic is unique to Agamemnon, everything is "how it should be" here

    Again, the motivation system works well - it determines the role of the heroes in the campaign and how to use them effectively, the player can not ignore it, otherwise will face penalties,

    The new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system can cause more problems and unbalance

    My problems with current motivation sytem are:
    • The system is very simple and I don't find it fun.
    • It leads to some odd things like confederated Hector with "Hates Trojans" trait.
    • Except for trait related actions we have no other ways to affect heroes motivation.
    • In other titles (Tob, 3K) we have seen much better characters systems. Lack of strong character system is odd for a game focused on heroes.
    • The current system has no character interactions which are fundamental thing in Trojan War mythos (like for example Achilles having a conflict with Agamemnon, or the quarrel between Ajax and Odysseus).
    • Historical mode would greatly use some character management/court system, as some people find the mode lacking in this departament.

    Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • Toiox43uqToiox43uq Registered Users Posts: 101
    currently from what I have seen a few times, is that

    If Paris loses the town where Helen is , he makes no play to get it back..............but if a Paris ally takes the town, then in 4 or 5 turns, Helen is transported to the capital of paris holdings
    This only applies if Paris still exists.

    The easy default, should be if Paris does not exist , then Helen should go under the care of Hector ...........and after this Dardania

    It should be easy to do

    She should come with some benefits for the town she is in

  • Lotor12Lotor12 Registered Users Posts: 653
    Other
    RafSwi7 said:

    Lotor12 said:

    @RafSwi7
    There is not option for most important element of Total War titles in Your pool - battles

    I have not created "battle" option in the poll as most battle issues you have mentioned (like collisions, missile trajectory or unit AI control can be fixed by patches or by mods if someone is knowledgeable enough). I agree with you, I hope we will see improvements in this area.
    I consider the battles in Total War as main element of the game, I think that is why people play Total War insted of Civilization, 4X strategies or Paradox games (Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis)
    I do not like to say, but I think, that the battle part is kind of weakpoint of Troy (the campaign mechanics and design are great), if something should have a attention of developers, it is the battle part first,
    RafSwi7 said:


    Lotor12 said:


    Gods rework & Motivation/Character/Court rework
    I would like to ask - Why to fix (or "rework") something, what is not broken, and works well?

    Just because something works alright, it does not mean that in cannot be furhter improved into something greater. For example, Emperor system worked "fine" before Emperor's rework. Rome 2 campaign system worked "alright" before Politics and Family reworks. Still, reworks happened and fleshed out all these elements making them more interactive and fun.
    The point is, that I do not see furher development in this part of the game as "step forward"
    As I said above, I see TW as game about battles, and developing cities/Empire, moving armies and diplomacy in grand strategy part,
    not about inner faction politics and character micromanagment

    Rome 2 is perfect example, there was put so much effort in to this minor part of the game and importnat problems remained unsolved - land army can be use as navies and attack blocking navy from blocking port, AI builds armies from basic units from rown hall, because can not handle complicated or unbalanced building system, and properly develop itself; game is unbalanced a lot - As a Rome You can have one of the best cavalry in the game - Auxilary Cavalry in turn 9 , if you going directly for certain technolgy and building

    https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/units_compare.php?l=en&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_rome&u[]=Aux_Cav&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_syracuse&u[]=Gre_Citizen_Cav&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_arverni&u[]=Cel_Heavy_Horse&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_parthia&u[]=Eas_Median_Cav&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_carthage&u[]=Car_Cav&v[]=rome2&f[]=rom_parthia&u[]=Eas_Noble_Blood_Cav

    If the the whole politics and character mechanics would be completely removed, the game itself would be fine anyway (like TW Napoleon), and I am not even sure, if it is working corectly after all
    In the practice, the charactee mechanics leads player to win battles with "right" generals and suicede frontline charge in to enemy spear line with problematic/unloyal characters in battle

    The Troy character mechanic is superior for me, because different generals have a different roles in the campaign, and the penalties and bonuses from motivation mechanics have -directly- impacts to the gameplay, so player can not ignore it
    RafSwi7 said:


    Among these two (gods/motivation systems), gods system is more than alright and IMHO is fun....
    ....One thing that I REALLY don't like about the current sytem is that it only rewards, and these rewards are player only.

    I absolutely agree with this point, the AI should have acces to the god rewards in battle too
    RafSwi7 said:


    I simply think that it would be more fun if for example I could have faced an enemy army that has Ares favour, that would debuff morale of my units, or a situation where god gives me a campaign penalty as I am ignoring him in hecatombs. If anything all of these changes should be in mythic mode, where they would make most sense.

    It is discutable, if it would be more fun or annoying in the practice,
    this would force player to do a unwanted hetacombs , I guess these penalties would just broke the game
    RafSwi7 said:

    Lotor12 said:

    "adding court system for each hero (Agamemnon would need some special court) and new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system."

    Why?

    The Troy is designated great in campaign part - every faction has 2 unique and interesting mechanics, the court mechanic is unique to Agamemnon, everything is "how it should be" here

    Again, the motivation system works well - it determines the role of the heroes in the campaign and how to use them effectively, the player can not ignore it, otherwise will face penalties,

    The new events/dilemmas/actions related to motivation system can cause more problems and unbalance

    My problems with current motivation sytem are:
    • The system is very simple and I don't find it fun.
    • It leads to some odd things like confederated Hector with "Hates Trojans" trait.
    • Except for trait related actions we have no other ways to affect heroes motivation.
    • In other titles (Tob, 3K) we have seen much better characters systems. Lack of strong character system is odd for a game focused on heroes.
    • The current system has no character interactions which are fundamental thing in Trojan War mythos (like for example Achilles having a conflict with Agamemnon, or the quarrel between Ajax and Odysseus).
    • Historical mode would greatly use some character management/court system, as some people find the mode lacking in this departament.
    Again to the motivation system,
    At the first, lets say openly, we 2 are different types of players
    I find this system as the fun :smiley: and even better than various character mechanics in other TW titles

    But Yes. there is need for some balance - for some heroes is very hard to obtain motivation, so they are not useful in practice, mentioned "confederated Hector with "Hates Trojans" trait"

    "Except for trait related actions we have no other ways to affect heroes motivation."
    That is it,
    The meaning of this mechanic is to bring certain campaign roles for heroes through these trait related actions, not to bring character micromanagment
    I think, this is how it should be, Certain heroes are good or bad for certain actions, and player must them use correctly, to get bonusses and avoid penalties
    You can also increase heroes loyalty by giving them some items

    In other titles (Tob, 3K) we have seen much better characters systems. Lack of strong character system is odd for a game focused on heroes.
    I do not consider these character systems as better, but as worse, ToB is most unsuccessful tittle within TW serries - this is just my speculation, but I guess, aside of being too similar with Attila content, the another reason is focus on annoying politics and character managment, what many people do not like (including me)

    This is another reason, why I like Troy

    Historical mode would greatly use some character management/court system, as some people find the mode lacking in this departament.

    I am that kind of "historical player" who started TW serries with first Rome, than played Medieval 2, Napolen and Shogun 2,
    For me, the Troy in historical mode is something like return of good old Total War, similar to Shogun 2, without unnessary character/politics management , but with interesting campaign mechanics
    Shogun 2 has a similar simple court system to Aggamemnon,

    Actually, I find Troy great, because of "lacking in this departament.", I would say, if some people want some more character or inner-faction management, let the modders do it, as optional mod on steam workshop
  • Ulfhedinn_Ulfhedinn_ Registered Users Posts: 174
    Helen rework
    Please CA, improve the battles: balancing, collisions, projectile trajectory, unit weight, animations, etc...
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