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healing changes

ThibixMagnusThibixMagnus Registered Users Posts: 750
soooo now healing will be a percentage of max hp instead of a flat amount... I really don't know what to think of it. Seems imposed by the nurgle faction, but it's a "blessing" that will spread way beyond...

Looks like a nerf to non-monstruous characters and a buff to fat SEMs who have access to healing (less paladins, more dread saurians). Also looks like a nerf to elite cavalry healing. Infantry might benefit slightly as it can have high-ish hp pools, more so for nehek as it is not constrained by model bleed. The break-even point would depend on the actual values.

Besides balance effects, it strongly encourages to take a monstrous mount -even more than now- because the character will heal faster on it - i.e. more damage negated.

I see the point for nurgle gameplay, but I am not sure for the game in general...
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Comments

  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 5,255
    Not just Nurgle, Ogres too. Trollguts heals like 3k + HP on a single cast on high HP pools like Stonehorn or Giant. And still substantial for regular ogre lords with half that HP.
  • AsamuAsamu Registered Users Posts: 1,224
    Seems like it's going to be equal to the current values at ~6,000 HP, so for units with more than that, it's a buff, and for units with less, it's a nerf.

    So... for units like the dread saurian it's a huge buff. Healing will be almost twice as strong. Frankly, that might be sort of a good thing, as it'll make the unit more viable.

    It's mainly a nerf to heroes, lords, cavalry, and monsters with 3000-5000 HP.
  • BovineKingBovineKing Registered Users Posts: 742
    Kinda disappointed the demis & stag knights won’t get crazy good heals any more. Hopefully bear cavalry as higher hp.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 1,668
    I'd hope to see adjustments made to the Hp of infantry and cavalry units.


    Overall I'm a fan of the change and it allows healing cost in terms of gold or wom to be better balanced in addition
  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 1,044
    New % based heals are better even if it will likely require some rebalancing.

    Due to how units pay for stats (e.g. HP/Leadership/Armour/MA/MD/Speed/Resists/etc) and the fact that no unit pays for their healing cap, flat-value based heals are disproportionately impactful on units that pay for things other than HP.

    New healing system means that units that pay for HP receive the greatest benefit from things that replenish HP, just like how units that pay for armour get the greatest benefit from things that buff armour, ditto for resists, etc.

    Current system rewards units that pay for anything but health as the relative value of each point of hp is more when it is wrapped in 100 armour & 60MD/40% physical resist & 50MD etc. This is one of the reasons that healing synergises so exceptionally well with the High Elves even before Martial Prowess is taken into account. HE are by no means unique though, anything with high stats + high cost that pays for a relatively small hp pool (compared to the HP pools granted to comparable units without access to healing) benefits massively from flat-value heals. This is one of the major reasons why healing is so firmly embedded in the meta, so this is a great overall change to fix that.

    Would like to see it alongside some changes like vigour no longer decreasing armour values which is an unfair penalty to units that pay for armour that isn't applied to other defensive stats like resists or MD (at least comparatively).
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  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,722
    yeah i looked at it more,its actually a buff even more,They should reduce it be 30% atleast,by compensation they can give the healing spells/items on nurgle/ogre factions more heal %

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 11,678

    New % based heals are better even if it will likely require some rebalancing.

    Due to how units pay for stats (e.g. HP/Leadership/Armour/MA/MD/Speed/Resists/etc) and the fact that no unit pays for their healing cap, flat-value based heals are disproportionately impactful on units that pay for things other than HP.

    New healing system means that units that pay for HP receive the greatest benefit from things that replenish HP, just like how units that pay for armour get the greatest benefit from things that buff armour, ditto for resists, etc.

    Current system rewards units that pay for anything but health as the relative value of each point of hp is more when it is wrapped in 100 armour & 60MD/40% physical resist & 50MD etc. This is one of the reasons that healing synergises so exceptionally well with the High Elves even before Martial Prowess is taken into account. HE are by no means unique though, anything with high stats + high cost that pays for a relatively small hp pool (compared to the HP pools granted to comparable units without access to healing) benefits massively from flat-value heals. This is one of the major reasons why healing is so firmly embedded in the meta, so this is a great overall change to fix that.

    Would like to see it alongside some changes like vigour no longer decreasing armour values which is an unfair penalty to units that pay for armour that isn't applied to other defensive stats like resists or MD (at least comparatively).

    Quite a good summary and i agree, only issues i have is how hard will lore of fire counter it, im not certain how it works yet but i hope that it does not reduce the heal if you cast the lore of fire spell after the heal, that way both players have a tug of war when to best use those spells.
  • BovineKingBovineKing Registered Users Posts: 742


    Quite a good summary and i agree, only issues i have is how hard will lore of fire counter it, im not certain how it works yet but i hope that it does not reduce the heal if you cast the lore of fire spell after the heal, that way both players have a tug of war when to best use those spells.

    That’s a good point specially in case of units with innate fire damage as a question like do I just have to touch a unit with knights of blazing sun or will prolonged contact be needed.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 15,463
    edited November 23


    Quite a good summary and i agree, only issues i have is how hard will lore of fire counter it, im not certain how it works yet but i hope that it does not reduce the heal if you cast the lore of fire spell after the heal, that way both players have a tug of war when to best use those spells.

    That’s a good point specially in case of units with innate fire damage as a question like do I just have to touch a unit with knights of blazing sun or will prolonged contact be needed.
    I mean knights of the blazing sun is gonna **** norsca regardless, now that regeneration is also precentage based things like skin wolves are gonna be trash.

    And they still retain fire weakness.

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  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 605
    edited November 23

    New % based heals are better even if it will likely require some rebalancing.

    Due to how units pay for stats (e.g. HP/Leadership/Armour/MA/MD/Speed/Resists/etc) and the fact that no unit pays for their healing cap, flat-value based heals are disproportionately impactful on units that pay for things other than HP.

    New healing system means that units that pay for HP receive the greatest benefit from things that replenish HP, just like how units that pay for armour get the greatest benefit from things that buff armour, ditto for resists, etc.

    Current system rewards units that pay for anything but health as the relative value of each point of hp is more when it is wrapped in 100 armour & 60MD/40% physical resist & 50MD etc. This is one of the reasons that healing synergises so exceptionally well with the High Elves even before Martial Prowess is taken into account. HE are by no means unique though, anything with high stats + high cost that pays for a relatively small hp pool (compared to the HP pools granted to comparable units without access to healing) benefits massively from flat-value heals. This is one of the major reasons why healing is so firmly embedded in the meta, so this is a great overall change to fix that.

    Would like to see it alongside some changes like vigour no longer decreasing armour values which is an unfair penalty to units that pay for armour that isn't applied to other defensive stats like resists or MD (at least comparatively).

    Your reasoning is incorrect. That's the total opposite, HE do pay more for HP (and WS) and less for MA/MD/LD.
    Stats are not taken individually to determine price, devs confirmed that they go more with experience and intuition so it's an approach of the whole rather than the details.
    So for a set price HE get less HP and more MA/MD relatively to other factions at the same price tac hence they pay more for HP.

    And let's not lure ourselves, the reason healing is prominent in that roster is because of the faction mechanic. Will be made even more obvious when most factions get their version of MP aka wounds (its not a coincidence many want healing to not affect wounds).
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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 6,959
    It's correct that healing is the strongest for units that are balenced around a lower hp being viable, ie compensated for by higher mitigation of incoming damage from armor, resists and melee stats.

    However, this change does cause an imbalance with respect to damage, which is flat, simply making healing worse for units that don't rely on high hp. After this change, hp will be even more king than it already is.

    Right now high hp is better than having low hp and high mitigation because mitigation can be circumvented while hp is always hp. Healing compensates for this by adding more effective hp.

    After this change high hp will have all the benefits, including higher healing cap, and no downside.
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  • ReymReym Registered Users Posts: 689
    I hope they will figure out something for etheral units to compensate because it's yet another big indirectnerf for them, funny as they are mediocre already (except syreens).
    But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?

  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,222
    Reym said:

    I hope they will figure out something for etheral units to compensate because it's yet another big indirectnerf for them, funny as they are mediocre already (except syreens).

    Probably nerfing their heal cap lol. Wouldn't surprise me if in the scope of nerfing SEM healing spam CA would nerf ethereal units more.
    One thing will definitely be a buff though: magic damage will no longer be a joke.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 1,668

    It's correct that healing is the strongest for units that are balenced around a lower hp being viable, ie compensated for by higher mitigation of incoming damage from armor, resists and melee stats.

    However, this change does cause an imbalance with respect to damage, which is flat, simply making healing worse for units that don't rely on high hp. After this change, hp will be even more king than it already is.

    Right now high hp is better than having low hp and high mitigation because mitigation can be circumvented while hp is always hp. Healing compensates for this by adding more effective hp.

    After this change high hp will have all the benefits, including higher healing cap, and no downside.

    You are totally right. It may be that this is being accounted for, I'd hope so, if we look at kugaths stats and cost I'd hope that could possibly give a hint towards Hp being recognised as king by gold cost
  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 1,044
    No stat is "king", analysing unit cards that way confuses things more than it clarifies.

    Be like saying "the most important part of a vehicle is the engine". It is possibly true in some abstract way but you aren't going to get very far without the rest of vehicle.

    The hp discussion has already been had here in any case if anyone is interested:

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293006/meta-discussion-2-the-value-of-hp
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  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 1,044
    For ethereals, they must have been reworked. Between healing changes and magic resist changes they will absolutely terrible otherwise and were only clinging in due to the flat-value based healing interaction as is.
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  • turrehundturrehund Registered Users Posts: 398
    Is it safe to assume that they may change some direct damage spells to deal a % of max HP as well, such as Spirit Leech?
  • BovineKingBovineKing Registered Users Posts: 742
    turrehund said:

    Is it safe to assume that they may change some direct damage spells to deal a % of max HP as well, such as Spirit Leech?

    This was my biggest hope with healing change.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 5,255

    turrehund said:

    Is it safe to assume that they may change some direct damage spells to deal a % of max HP as well, such as Spirit Leech?

    This was my biggest hope with healing change.
    Could also apply to some AoE spells to not make single entities totally immune to them. Would remedy situations like a Wooly Mammoth passing thru a huge Burning Head and his immense bulk of wool not giving a single duck.
  • RawSugarRawSugar Registered Users Posts: 1,371
    edited November 24
    da boyz is correct, the new system will be more equal effect.
    current system is healed hp * gold value of hp, which varies wildly from unit to unit
    new system will be % of gold value of target which is more uniform

    I dont think you can call it an improvement, old system had a bunch of quirks like synergy with ethereal that made it interesting, new system will be basically just: find the highest cost targets possible.

    Im curious though how it will work with multientity units. atm healing spells do ok when cast on high entity units but if the effect is 1% full health pr sec?
  • AsamuAsamu Registered Users Posts: 1,224
    RawSugar said:

    da boyz is correct, the new system will be more equal effect.
    current system is healed hp * gold value of hp, which varies wildly from unit to unit
    new system will be % of gold value of target which is more uniform

    I dont think you can call it an improvement, old system had a bunch of quirks like synergy with ethereal that made it interesting, new system will be basically just: find the highest cost targets possible.

    Im curious though how it will work with multientity units. atm healing spells do ok when cast on high entity units but if the effect is 1% full health pr sec?

    Unlike with direct damage, any over-healing on a particular entity just gets carried over onto another damaged entity.

    I'd guess the ticks still happen every half second for healing spells, so their effectiveness on multi-entity units probably isn't changing.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 6,959

    No stat is "king", analysing unit cards that way confuses things more than it clarifies.

    Be like saying "the most important part of a vehicle is the engine". It is possibly true in some abstract way but you aren't going to get very far without the rest of vehicle.

    The hp discussion has already been had here in any case if anyone is interested:

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293006/meta-discussion-2-the-value-of-hp

    This analogy is not very accurate since "raw HP" and "damage mitigation" together make up your "effective HP". They are two aspects of the same and you can perfectly well have all the raw HP and zero mitigation and be the best unit in the game if you have enough of it.

    The important aspect of this change is how it changes "inflicted damage" vis-a-vis "healed damage".

    Inflicted damage is flat, it doesn't relate to the base HP of the target, and it shouldn't so that's fine. The effective inflicted damage is the product of raw damage and damage mitigation, and here importantly damage mitigation is not constant. You circumvent armor mitigation with AP damage, you circumvent physical resist with magic damage and you circumvent MD with rear attacks or debuffs, or by inflicting damage from range. Shield block is circumvented by any damage that is not small arms from the front arc, etc. Raw HP however, can never be circumvented, so what you see is what you get. That's why "HP is king", there are no shortcuts killing a unit that is balanced around low mitigation and high raw HP. Nothing wrong about that, but it's just the most reliable effective HP you can have. Right now it has one drawback, and that is that it's less efficient to heal up with a flat heal amount since you're healing only raw HP.

    The effect of making healing no longer flat is that you're further reinforcing raw HP as the most efficient health buffer you can have.

    To be honest I don't see the point. What was the problem that this change is repairing? Were Dread saurians too bad healing targets, or was the Green knight a too good healing target? At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is unit balance and spell balance, and the only thing you achieve with this change as far as I can see is that you force yourself to make a whole lot of rebalancing of both units and lores of magic, and most importantly the balance between damage dealt and damage healed when it comes to character sniping. Generals/mages on non-monstrous mounts will be harder to keep alive with this change, while generals/mages on the largest monsters will be easier to keep alive. For what gain? I thought we wanted the opposite, some monsters could have been a bit easier to kill but without making lord sniping too strong. Sure I can see some people loving that it will be less efficient to heal lion chariots but if that is a problem, just reduce the bloody missile resist like they should have done long ago.

    Just seems like a waste of resources to me. If a particular unit was a too strong healing target, just reduce some of the damage mitigation of that unit. If lore of vamps/life were too strong, just tweak the spells. I doubt apotheosis is too strong. Why scramble unit/lore/sniping balance so that you have to spend resources fixing it again when you are not really addressing any intrinsic problem with the change in the first place?
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  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 1,044
    The glaring hole with the whole "HP is king" theory is that it explains nothing about how this game plays with any
    consistency.

    For example let's take HE as a faction that pays one of the highest premiums for HP in the game:

    - Has good matchups into VC/VP
    - Even matchups into SKVN/TK (I think TK is also a good matchup for HE but for argument's sake let's say it is even)
    - Bad matchups into GS/BRET

    All 6 of these factions can easily bring substantially more HP into the battle at a far lower average cost. But it plays no role in determining which are the good and bad matchups.

    Then there are all sorts of situations where you see the exact same thing:

    - WE vs SKVN is heavily WE favoured despite SKVN having far cheaper access to HP.
    - CHS vs HE is CHS favoured, but CHS vs DE is DE favoured despite DE having less "effective hp" than HE in this matchup. And NRS can bring HP as cost-effectively as CHS but has a bad matchup into HE.
    - GS vs VC/BM which are tough matchups for GS, GS opts into more elite units and putting less hp on the board as the more viable strategy. If "HP is King" why not go the other way and put the maximum amount of HP on the board?

    It is easy enough to go on and on with countless different matchups and factions doing this.

    HP is an important stat but just one of many. It is no less important than leadership (in game 1 the PartyElite maxim was "Leadership is the true health bar") but neither of them mean a thing without the other stats to utilise them.

    If a hypothesis can't explain with any semblance of reliability which matchups will be bad/good, or how factions will choose to respond in different matchups, then it is a bad hypothesis and needs a rethink. And tbh I can't help but roll my eyes a bit at this whole "HP is King" theory when gee whiz will you look at that which factions have the lowest HP, just so happened to be the Elves?! Guess they really must be the most high skill/pro/elite faction after all to play on even with this debilitating embedded disadvantage.

    New healing structure will be far more balanced, go a long way to fixing what has been one of the biggest ongoing balance issues through the whole game 2 lifecycle.

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  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 605

    The glaring hole with the whole "HP is king" theory is that it explains nothing about how this game plays with any
    consistency.

    For example let's take HE as a faction that pays one of the highest premiums for HP in the game:

    - Has good matchups into VC/VP
    - Even matchups into SKVN/TK (I think TK is also a good matchup for HE but for argument's sake let's say it is even)
    - Bad matchups into GS/BRET

    All 6 of these factions can easily bring substantially more HP into the battle at a far lower average cost. But it plays no role in determining which are the good and bad matchups.

    Then there are all sorts of situations where you see the exact same thing:

    - WE vs SKVN is heavily WE favoured despite SKVN having far cheaper access to HP.
    - CHS vs HE is CHS favoured, but CHS vs DE is DE favoured despite DE having less "effective hp" than HE in this matchup. And NRS can bring HP as cost-effectively as CHS but has a bad matchup into HE.
    - GS vs VC/BM which are tough matchups for GS, GS opts into more elite units and putting less hp on the board as the more viable strategy. If "HP is King" why not go the other way and put the maximum amount of HP on the board?

    It is easy enough to go on and on with countless different matchups and factions doing this.

    HP is an important stat but just one of many. It is no less important than leadership (in game 1 the PartyElite maxim was "Leadership is the true health bar") but neither of them mean a thing without the other stats to utilise them.

    If a hypothesis can't explain with any semblance of reliability which matchups will be bad/good, or how factions will choose to respond in different matchups, then it is a bad hypothesis and needs a rethink. And tbh I can't help but roll my eyes a bit at this whole "HP is King" theory when gee whiz will you look at that which factions have the lowest HP, just so happened to be the Elves?! Guess they really must be the most high skill/pro/elite faction after all to play on even with this debilitating embedded disadvantage.

    New healing structure will be far more balanced, go a long way to fixing what has been one of the biggest ongoing balance issues through the whole game 2 lifecycle.

    HP is king doesn't equal HP is the only thing that matter- nobody said or implied that, that's just a strawman there. A king still needs its subjects.

    I don't know how you can make a reasoning such as this and conclude with " one of the biggest ongoing balance issues through the whole game 2 lifecycle" talking about healing and even complain about consistency issues in the same post.

    Can we take again the same examples you gave?

    HE have great healing, VC have even greater healing, who stomps who?
    Same with GS/Bret and HE?

    Chaos with no healing stomps HE who has access to great healing but loses to DE who only has access to very limited almost non existent healing.

    Again, you insist on consistency, how is is consistent to make healing percentage based but direct damage spells that are just as easy to use stay the same point and click flat damage?
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  • PippingtonPippington Registered Users Posts: 2,284
    edited November 25
    "HP is king" implies HP is more valuable than any other stat, I think that's not a strawman. And you can do a very simple test of looking at units of the same unit type and at the same price point, and seeing whether the one that puts more of its cost into HP (as opposed to other supposedly less valuable stats) is always the better choice. And that's trivially false. There are no Lizard players queuing up to swap out their Stegs for Giants, or Chaos players eager to trade their Warriors for Tomb Guard, or Greenskin players putting their Arachnaroks in the bin because they have Rogue Idols now.

    Most of all though I don't get why anyone would want to go back over a discussion that already had a whole thread dedicated to it. Does anyone feel someone's going to change their mind when they read the exact same arguments a 2nd time?


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  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 605
    edited November 25

    "HP is king" implies HP is more valuable than any other stat, I think that's not a strawman. And you can do a very simple test of looking at units of the same unit type and at the same price point, and seeing whether the one that puts more of its cost into HP (as opposed to other supposedly less valuable stats) is always the better choice. And that's trivially false. There are no Lizard players queuing up to swap out their Stegs for Giants, or Chaos players eager to trade their Warriors for Tomb Guard, or Greenskin players putting their Arachnaroks in the bin because they have Rogue Idols now.

    Most of all though I don't get why anyone would want to go back over a discussion that already had a whole thread dedicated to it. Does anyone feel someone's going to change their mind when they read the exact same arguments a 2nd time?

    As you said yourself "more valuable" which means other still have their value. When you analyze match ups through the sole lense of HP as if it was the only thing of value to debunk this proposition you're not being true to its essence hence it's a strawman.

    Also i totally disagree with the examples you gave. First you'll go by the assumption units are properly priced/balanced themselves and secondly you need to clarify what you mean by same unit type. If you consider role in unit type then they are not the same unit type If you don't consider it then it's totally unfair to compare an artillery unit that Rogue Idol is to a pure melee unit Arachnarok is, same with Stegs and Giant. Tomb Guards are actually worse in terms of HP so that's not even serving you here.

    I have an even simpler approach than you. Going into a game the most elementary thing is to aim to reduce opponent HP, whether from all units or key units, but that's where the game is articulated around. There are different ways to do this but the central part is HP. You can bypass MA/MD/Speed/whatever depending on the approach you take but you can't bypass HP, the closest is playing the LD bombs but not only that relies quite often on HP too but it's also to get to the key target. Might change with "Domination" but that's how it works with the system we're working from aka the current one.

    Finally i don't know how you can complain about HP discussion while being fine with healing ones, what does healing do?
    But i'm fine with that, i think the most important discussion here is : why do healings of all sort get this change while their total reverse equivalent aka damage abilities (direct spells, mortis effect etc) don't get this change?.
    Post edited by ShevaTsar on
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  • PippingtonPippington Registered Users Posts: 2,284
    edited November 25
    ShevaTsar said:

    it's totally unfair to compare an artillery unit that Rogue Idol is to a pure melee unit Arachnarok is

    You're thinking of the RoR. The standard Rogue Idol is a pure armoured melee beatstick, the same as the spider, with 4,478 (59.5%) more HP for only 400 (21%) more cost. Yet for some reason the spider is more popular. How can that be?
    ShevaTsar said:

    Tomb Guards are actually worse in terms of HP so that's not even serving you here.

    A regiment of Tomb Guard has 630 more HP than a regiment of Chaos Warriors. It's just spread over more models.
    ShevaTsar said:

    Finally i don't know how you can complain about HP discussion while being fine with healing ones, what does healing do?

    I am just saying I don't see the point in dredging up the argument over "HP is the god stat" when it's been quite thoroughly discussed among the same people talking here. We can talk about the impact of these healing changes without needing to put that old thread on repeat.

    As for why healing should be % based and damage not be, I think that's a good question, much more interesting than beating the old dead horse. As far as I can guess a motive for this change, it seems to be trying to make healing more optimal for certain units with big HP pools (e.g. infantry), but that comes with a lot of side-effects considering the amount of variance the game now has within any one given unit type. I'd be interested to hear Duck's take on the motivation for the change, and why it applies to heals and not to damage... without knowing exactly why they did it I think the value of speculating is probably already exhausted.



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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 6,959
    You're just missing the point completely, "HP is king" means just that raw HP can't be circumvented, while resist-based effective HP can be circumvented.

    "HP is king" is an expression, like a para-phrase of "cash is king". Obviously it doesn't mean that credit cards can't be used to pay bills with or that money is worth less, but in some situations credit cards may not work. At least back in the days when the expression was created... either way, it's still an expression that does certainly not translate into HP being the only important stat. It just means that it's the most reliable form of durability since nothing circumvents it.

    At least we can expect a rework of etherials/PR based effective HP vs magic damage, that's very welcome, but I hope it doesn't come at the cost of your general/mage being easier to gank, while big monsters become harder to kill. To me it just looks like introducing new imbalance into a pretty well balanced system for no apparent gain. Or do anyone have any idea what they are trying to repair here?
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  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 605
    edited November 25


    You're thinking of the RoR. The standard Rogue Idol is a pure armoured melee beatstick, the same as the spider, with 4,478 (59.5%) more HP for only 400 (21%) more cost. Yet for some reason the spider is more popular. How can that be?

    You're comparing the two units based on their available HP alone, what's the point for me to answer your question when i already showed why your argument is a fallacious one? Once again nobody said or simplied that HP is the only metric that matter.
    There is a good reason why i even said in my previous post "First you'll go by the assumption units are properly priced/balanced themselves".

    I even went further and explained why HP was so important (more important than other stats) to which no counter argument, just nitpicking my post.




    A regiment of Tomb Guard has 630 more HP than a regiment of Chaos Warriors. It's just spread over more models.


    So that's what i'm saying, Tomb Guards are worse in terms of HP.




    I am just saying I don't see the point in dredging up the argument over "HP is the god stat" when it's been quite thoroughly discussed among the same people talking here. We can talk about the impact of these healing changes without needing to put that old thread on repeat.

    As for why healing should be % based and damage not be, I think that's a good question, much more interesting than beating the old dead horse. As far as I can guess a motive for this change, it seems to be trying to make healing more optimal for certain units with big HP pools (e.g. infantry), but that comes with a lot of side-effects considering the amount of variance the game now has within any one given unit type. I'd be interested to hear Duck's take on the motivation for the change, and why it applies to heals and not to damage... without knowing exactly why they did it I think the value of speculating is probably already exhausted.

    The same is true for healing. The two subjects are inseparable.

    I'll save you from the guessing game. They said themselves in the video describing this change that it would open counters to healing like fire magic. Meaning, healing too strong.
    My question is, how is healing in need of counters when something like spirit leech for example that kills directly models that can't be resurected. Is it any more open to counters?
    How can flat damage possibly get possibly counter balanced by relative HP changes abilities when the HP pool greatly vary like you pointed out so well yourself?
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  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,192
    It's is a terrible change. Before, healing was more effective on high stats, low hp monsters.... but that was automatically balanced by that healing being limited by the healing cap sooner.


    Now, healing anything but big monsters with huge HP is going to suck.
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