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What if the Monos Really are Mono-Daemons rather than Mono-Gods?

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  • Bies#4376Bies#4376 Registered Users Posts: 6,159
    We will riot

    "I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."









  • KhorneBull#5991KhorneBull#5991 Registered Users Posts: 443
    ArneSo said:

    Did we really need another thread for this?

    Fact is that all Daemon units are basically in the game except for Pleasureseekers and Blood Chariots.

    We also already know that we have Monogods and not Monodaemons

    You forgot Changebringers of tzeentch.
  • Crossil#2134Crossil#2134 Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    edited January 2022

    ArneSo said:

    Did we really need another thread for this?

    Fact is that all Daemon units are basically in the game except for Pleasureseekers and Blood Chariots.

    We also already know that we have Monogods and not Monodaemons

    You forgot Changebringers of tzeentch.
    Mostly variations on the theme.

    If you really wanted, you could bring up other Daemons from 40k and Fantasy. But then, you're literally searching alternate universes for something to add. And even then, barely anything worth a lord pack.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • Lunaticprince#9972Lunaticprince#9972 Registered Users Posts: 7,229
    Literally slannesh is the only one where you can do a whole demon lordpack and even that is a big stretch so no, they definitly get mortals these threads not need to pop out every day.


  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Registered Users Posts: 40,879
    Crossil said:

    If that's really all CA could do with them, then they wouldn't have been core races.

    And no, they're not making a dozen or so lord packs for Warriors of Chaos. They're a Warhammer 1 race, I mean, sure, they will probably get one if not two, but to cover everything that the Monos would bring you would need much more than that.

    It's just bizarre that Sotek thinks how Monos are just an add on to the game 3 lineup, and that WoC are gonna be the main focus.

    Simply another proof that Sotek is just an idiot who has no clue what he’s talking about.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Registered Users Posts: 40,879

    ArneSo said:

    Did we really need another thread for this?

    Fact is that all Daemon units are basically in the game except for Pleasureseekers and Blood Chariots.

    We also already know that we have Monogods and not Monodaemons

    You forgot Changebringers of tzeentch.
    True! I still think that they should’ve been Core with Doom Knights saved for DLC.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,887
    This debate is utterly pointless.

    First, there are already mortals in every monogod roster. And, with the exception of Nurgle, they are a significant part of the roster.

    Second, every demon unit in the game except a couple exceptions is already in the game. Which means no lord packs, which makes no sense business wise.


    This is not an unpopular opinion that people don't want to discuss. This is simply a stupid opinion. We already know the rosters, we already know they are not monodemons.
  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,887
    Ludbone said:

    What people like the OP with his. . . interesting. . . and smart takes do not understand is that the Monogods are the 4 Races with the real potential for future contents, hence with a huge plethora of units and LL's.
    A question for you: why the GW Forum and Reddit keeps posting wishlists of Monogods Contents, while nothing was made for the like of Kislev and Fantasy 3 Kingdoms? Because they have not enough contents from GW sources, novels, fanfictions or else, to even make a single, decent. . . mediocre TBH. . . Lord Pack for both.

    A recent thread should have enlighted you already:



    Yikes! CA already copy/pasted models in order to complete Kislev, the Fanmade Core. Bad news. . . since if CA is forced to copy/paste models already. . . how can they create a single LP for Fanmade-on-Ice?
    The Fanmade Cores, are in such a bad shape. Objectively they have no room for a DLC. . . as sad as this looks like.
    I'm confident they have like a couple of Lords, that can be added via FLCs. But in terms of units and sources? Ehhhh.
    It's quite amusing how the Novel (Tamurkhan) of one of the so called "Quarter Cores" gave us multiple units of the current Fanmade Core Roster, called Cathay. This tells you alot about the importance of the Monogods (contents and sources included) and the future state of the 2 Fanmades.
    Sure, CA can wait another half a decade before creating one mid-sized LP for the Fanmades, by expecting some bones for the two from The Old World. . . hopefully. But I'm afraid CA has not so much time to waste. A couple of FLC Lords for the Fanmades looks the only choice we can hope to see.

    This level od delusion is just sad.
  • Crossil#2134Crossil#2134 Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    edited January 2022
    Pocman said:

    Second, every demon unit in the game except a couple exceptions is already in the game. Which means no lord packs, which makes no sense business wise.

    Well.... at most you could argue that CA might introduce the AoS and 40k Daemons as playable in this setting through DLC, but depending on which god we're looking at, that's barely a single Lord Pack, or not even a lord pack.

    Interestingly, there might already be an unreleased Daemon in the game as a background prop. Like here:





    https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Feculent_Gnarlmaw

    It's not a 1 to 1 copy of the model, but it's close enough in design.

    Still, the only ones who could potentially have enough unique Daemons for something like a lord pack are Nurgle and Slaanesh, former because of the Gnarlmaw and the Molluscoid, and the latter due to the overall reworking of Slaanesh in recent editions. Khorne and Tzeentch are basically complete like this.

    In the end, Nurgle has enough to implement as is, so Slaanesh is the one who stands to gain the most from these. in that case, if they really do have access to the more recent Daemons, this could be a valid future lord pack for Slaanesh.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • mecanojavi99#6562mecanojavi99#6562 Registered Users Posts: 12,683
    Crossil said:

    Pocman said:

    Second, every demon unit in the game except a couple exceptions is already in the game. Which means no lord packs, which makes no sense business wise.

    Well.... at most you could argue that CA might introduce the AoS and 40k Daemons as playable in this setting through DLC, but depending on which god we're looking at, that's barely a single Lord Pack, or not even a lord pack.

    Interestingly, there might already be an unreleased Daemon in the game as a background prop. Like here:





    https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Feculent_Gnarlmaw

    It's not a 1 to 1 copy of the model, but it's close enough in design.

    Still, the only ones who could potentially have enough unique Daemons for something like a lord pack are Nurgle and Slaanesh, former because of the Gnarlmaw and the Molluscoid, and the latter due to the overall reworking of Slaanesh in recent editions. Khorne and Tzeentch are basically complete like this.

    In the end, Nurgle has enough to implement as is, so Slaanesh is the one who stands to gain the most from these. in that case, if they really do have access to the more recent Daemons, this could be a valid future lord pack for Slaanesh.
    The tree is not a unit, it's scenary, the same as the Silvaneth with their trees or the Fireslayers with their Forge.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • RamsesIII#4621RamsesIII#4621 Registered Users Posts: 1,183
    It's a possibility. I've been mentally preparing myself for this just in case, and to be honest I wouldn't be too bothered with Valkia, Festus and Vilich being WoC with mixed roster and mechanics (though that might also be because they're not my favorite characters for each god's army).

    I can also see the argument for certain characters like Tamurkhan fitting the "horde of raiding warriors tribes" WoC culture more than Nurgle's cyclic buildings. That being said I'd be disappointed if certain things like putrid blightkings or chaos lords (or whatever equivalente concept as a mortal lord) didn't come for monogods. It's a bit tricky, but whatever the case I'd be displeased if the DLC content for monogod races didn't make the mortal/daemon ratio a bit more balanced. It'd feel like a waste.
  • Eye_of_SauronEye_of_Sauron Registered Users Posts: 390


    SOTEK: "N-N-N-No dLc fOr MoNogoDs"




    CA:



    / Case Closed

    You don't have to be a genius to understand that Sotek's take was a laughable trash take, sigh.


    #JusticeForTzeentch #TzeentchLivesMatter #JusticeForMonogods


  • Crossil#2134Crossil#2134 Registered Users Posts: 14,927
    edited January 2022

    Crossil said:

    Pocman said:

    Second, every demon unit in the game except a couple exceptions is already in the game. Which means no lord packs, which makes no sense business wise.

    Well.... at most you could argue that CA might introduce the AoS and 40k Daemons as playable in this setting through DLC, but depending on which god we're looking at, that's barely a single Lord Pack, or not even a lord pack.

    Interestingly, there might already be an unreleased Daemon in the game as a background prop. Like here:





    https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Feculent_Gnarlmaw

    It's not a 1 to 1 copy of the model, but it's close enough in design.

    Still, the only ones who could potentially have enough unique Daemons for something like a lord pack are Nurgle and Slaanesh, former because of the Gnarlmaw and the Molluscoid, and the latter due to the overall reworking of Slaanesh in recent editions. Khorne and Tzeentch are basically complete like this.

    In the end, Nurgle has enough to implement as is, so Slaanesh is the one who stands to gain the most from these. in that case, if they really do have access to the more recent Daemons, this could be a valid future lord pack for Slaanesh.
    The tree is not a unit, it's scenary, the same as the Silvaneth with their trees or the Fireslayers with their Forge.
    Huh.....

    Well ok, but I still stand by my point. It's potentially possible that they get access to daemons that haven't been around in Fantasy. But even with the argument of only daemons, you don't have enough to work with beyond a singular lord pack at most.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • Rasmus242#8560Rasmus242#8560 Registered Users Posts: 691
    This idea doesn't work at all imo. WoC is the oldest of old DLC and was created at a time when the budget and vision for the game was very different. CA has now scaled up with the monogod factions and if they really only expected to make these as just DoC then they wouldn't have split them up imo.

    Yes, it's complicated and I do worry about how WoC will be handled moving forward but this idea of monogods only being DoC is tbh pretty dumb. As the guy above linked CA has said they will get DLC and the way Sotek interpreted that WoC will be as-is on release means little tbh considering how rushed plenty of things in WH3 looks (mostly talking about re-skins here so just saying they wouldn't bother remaking WoC when so much of the new factions can't be put together properly).
  • DrazhoaththeAshen#9598DrazhoaththeAshen#9598 Registered Users Posts: 928
    edited January 2022
    ArneSo said:

    Crossil said:

    If that's really all CA could do with them, then they wouldn't have been core races.

    And no, they're not making a dozen or so lord packs for Warriors of Chaos. They're a Warhammer 1 race, I mean, sure, they will probably get one if not two, but to cover everything that the Monos would bring you would need much more than that.

    It's just bizarre that Sotek thinks how Monos are just an add on to the game 3 lineup, and that WoC are gonna be the main focus.

    Simply another proof that Sotek is just an idiot who has no clue what he’s talking about.
    It feels a bit heavy handed to call him an idiot. He loves Warhammer, as I suspect most of us do. He does a pretty good job with the lore, for the most part. And he has his opinions, which are generally pretty benign. But absolutely never take his prognostications seriously. I don't know what crystal ball he's looking into or what formula he is using to predict what will be, but he is almost always wrong.

    No DLC for the four chaos races is a laughably bad take. And I really do mean laughably in the sense that you would be entirely justified to be sitting in your PJs in front of a computer laughing. It makes no sense business wise. It makes no sense narratively. And it makes no sense gameplay wise. Are we really going to sit here and think that Chaos, with its massive list of characters, is just going to sit with four greater demons and that's it?

    Unless it is some lore tidbit, I just tune Sotek out (and even this is starting to push it, because sometimes it just feels like he is taking deepdives into 1d4chan.) And Nathan I ignore entirely, because that guy is just churning out as much low-quality content as he can.

    They are monogods. Nurgle will get his blightkings. We will get marked chosen. We will get appropriate warriors. It is a matter of when, not a matter of if.
    What is normal for the spider is Chaos for the fly.
  • KhorneBull#5991KhorneBull#5991 Registered Users Posts: 443
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    Did we really need another thread for this?

    Fact is that all Daemon units are basically in the game except for Pleasureseekers and Blood Chariots.

    We also already know that we have Monogods and not Monodaemons

    You forgot Changebringers of tzeentch.
    True! I still think that they should’ve been Core with Doom Knights saved for DLC.
    I agree.
  • LordSolarMach#5538LordSolarMach#5538 Registered Users Posts: 2,607
    Crossil said:

    Huh.....

    Well ok, but I still stand by my point...

    You were partially right with the Feculent Gnarlmaw - it (and the Awakened Wyldwood/Magmic Battleforge) are special Faction Terrain with rules. In the case of the 'Gnarlmaw, you get to set it up in addition to the board's "normal" terrain, and it allows Nurgle units within 7" to Charge even if they've Run, and non-Nurgle units within 3" take a Mortal Wound on a 4+.
  • Goatforce#6625Goatforce#6625 Registered Users Posts: 8,658

    It's been explained multiple times already; I don't think we needed another thread for this...

    No it hasn't.
    I know most people deny this as a possibility and they may well be right.
    But this thread is about entertaining that possibly and how, if correct, it could be done well.
    We aren't getting 4 WoC specific lord packs in addition to 4+ God lord packs.... it's not happening. There's no point discussing impossible hypotheticals.
    Yeah Sotkes position is frankly bizarre. He seems to think that we will get like 2 marked characters for each god in WoC at least, which would require a ton of DLC and FLC for them which is completely unrealistic.

    Also it means that all LPs will have either Cathay or Kislev past the first wave, which is a ridiculous proposition.

    Would I be satisfied? No, it seems like a massive slap in the face to Chaos. As to your "solution" I expect WoC to receive marked mortal units anyway so not much of a consolation.
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,870
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious that new Chaos characters are going to be predominantly added to the four individual chaos factions because they are the New Shiny and headline content for Warhammer 3.

    I wouldn't rule out Warriors of Chaos getting a new lord in Warhammer 3, but it will more likely be someone who isn't known for being devoted to one of the four or an explicit champion of Chaos Undivided.
  • Crossil#2134Crossil#2134 Registered Users Posts: 14,927

    Crossil said:

    Huh.....

    Well ok, but I still stand by my point...

    You were partially right with the Feculent Gnarlmaw - it (and the Awakened Wyldwood/Magmic Battleforge) are special Faction Terrain with rules. In the case of the 'Gnarlmaw, you get to set it up in addition to the board's "normal" terrain, and it allows Nurgle units within 7" to Charge even if they've Run, and non-Nurgle units within 3" take a Mortal Wound on a 4+.
    Yeah, I went looking for what the rules are on youtube immediately after I read javi's comment. I am willing to at least aknowledge it isn't a straight up unit, or at least something that might not blend that well with TW gameplay, similar to the stationary oathstones which were instead turned into abilities or some such.

    I guess it could be interesting if CA actually introduced such deployable/summonable "buildings/features" that could provide some regional effects to the battlefield some time in the future. I'm just not sure if they would go that far.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • Timpeyo#7210Timpeyo#7210 Registered Users Posts: 2,094
    I'd be fine with this or if they simply merged WoC into DoC




  • Spellbound1875#4610Spellbound1875#4610 Registered Users Posts: 2,283
    Ludbone said:

    Yikes! CA already copy/pasted models in order to complete Kislev, the Fanmade Core. Bad news. . . since if CA is forced to copy/paste models already. . . how can they create a single LP for Fanmade-on-Ice?
    The Fanmade Cores, are in such a bad shape. Objectively they have no room for a DLC. . . as sad as this looks like.
    I'm confident they have like a couple of Lords, that can be added via FLCs. But in terms of units and sources? Ehhhh.
    It's quite amusing how the Novel (Tamurkhan) of one of the so called "Quarter Cores" gave us multiple units of the current Fanmade Core Roster, called Cathay. This tells you alot about the importance of the Monogods (contents and sources included) and the future state of the 2 Fanmades.
    Sure, CA can wait another half a decade before creating one mid-sized LP for the Fanmades, by expecting some bones for the two from The Old World. . . hopefully. But I'm afraid CA has not so much time to waste. A couple of FLC Lords for the Fanmades looks the only choice we can hope to see.

    So I'm going to take a moment to note that this take is actually worse then the unsupported monogods in favor of WoC take.

    First, if your point of reference is the Tzar Guard/Armored Kossars sharing a base model... the blog notes they are pulled from the same pool of Kossars. They look the same since on a fundamental level they are just kossars with better equipment. Arguing that because units that on tabletop would/will share a kit look similar CA/GW must have no additional material would be like arguing that because spearmen and swordsmen share a base model the Knights Panther or the Celestial Hurricanum aren't real.

    Whether you appreciate the aesthetic choice (personally I like that Kislev the least regimented of the human nations has less uniform variation amongst her troops) drawing any conclusion about future content from this point is asinine.

    GW clearly made additional units that are explicitly going to be included as DLC later by CA. It's a trivial exercise and one GW would have already been in a position to do given the Old World being on the horizon.

    For fun here's a fun lord pack worth of Cathay units that relies only on references made post reveal trailer of Cathay.

    LL: Monkey King (Blog posts, Andy Hall interview)

    Hero: Fire Alchemist (Kairos and Zhao Ming narrative gameplay video)

    Units:
    Monkey Warriors (Andy Hall interview)
    Many eyed crow men (Andy Hall interview)
    Fire cannon variant Sky Junk (Invicta video on Sky fleet)

    I'm sure if I spent the effort to review any of the materials mentioned at all I could find more units. There have been references to new materials for the order factions in game three throughout the promotional material. CA and GW have prepared to sell additional content for all of the core factions of game three, the race pack being released with game three, and factions released in game one.

    There is zero chance DLC, the real money maker of the warhammer series was left completely unconsidered when designing the rosters of 6 factions that weren't chained to am 8th edition book.
  • YitterbumYitterbum Registered Users Posts: 412
    Just because mono-god themed mortal units have been implemented incredibly poorly so far doesn't mean that more aren't coming.
  • Jastalll#1030Jastalll#1030 Registered Users Posts: 1,940
    edited January 2022
    All Gods already field mortals. How is this even a discussion?

    And anyone who seriously thinks a WH1 DLC race that CA has already sold will get tons of focus while 4 WH3 core races will be left to languish in the dust clearly aren't worth listening to.
  • General_Hijalti#1213General_Hijalti#1213 Registered Users Posts: 5,970


    From the Wording of older Blogs my assumption is that we'll see each Monogod Warriors Faction under their Named Champion, Such as Villich for Tzeentch will get access to both the Overhauled ..

    Mono"demon" Khorne got Warriors of Khorne and Skullcrusher, and mortal units such as minotaurs... Why are you completely ignoring the facts and making assumptions based on something wrong in the first place?
    The Mortals are extremely limited and there to supplement the rosters in ways that don't detract from intended playstyles and balance.
    Tzeentch with Chosen as a Frontline would be Utterly Broken.

    And lest you forget, Nurgle got No Mortals at all baring Forsaken.
    Limited. Its all of Khornes mortal units from the WoC armybook.

  • AgemmonAgemmon Registered Users Posts: 142

    I know this is a controversial topic here but I want you all to grant me this for the sake of argument and speculation.

    I am one of the few people who thinks Sotek may be right about the Mono's being Daemons with Mortals to supplement them rather than True Monogods.
    Now put aside you personal opinions on that take and Sotek himself an just assume it's accurate, What then?

    Myself I can see it going this way:
    Valkia, Villich & Festus all added to the Warriors of Chaos Race, All Given unique starts with Archaon, Kholek & Sigvald update in the process with the same unique starts.
    From the Wording of older Blogs my assumption is that we'll see each Monogod Warriors Faction under their Named Champion, Such as Villich for Tzeentch will get access to both the Overhauled Warriors Mechanics but also the God Specific Resource and Mechanics, Villich getting Grimoires & Changeling of the Ways for example Sigvald getting Devotees, Valkia Skulls and so on.

    I'd also expect them to get big bonusses with the MonoDaemon Races, Sigvald & N'Kari, Festus & Ku'Gath with the exception being bad relations between Valkia & Skarbrand.
    I can also see each Mono-Warrior Faction getting unique units from the Mono-Daemons,
    Valkia with Skullcrushers, Villich with Doom Knights, Sigvald with Hellstriders and the Unmounted Marauders and something new for Festus, Maybe Rotfly Knights or something.

    Again, Just assume this is how things go,
    Would you be satisfied?
    Would you do things different?

    I disagree with your post, albeit not in a negative way. I merely see things playing out differently.

    I see characters such as Valkia and Festus being added to the divided forces of chaos rosters. That is how I'm choosing to identify them: as divided forces of chaos (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh monogods). Sure, perhaps things are leaning more towards monodaemons at the moment, but DLC could flesh out the mortal side of the roster whilst additionally adding Daemon Princes (coincidentally left out), ascension to daemonhood mechanics and so forth.

    You mentioned him in your post, but Sigvald seems like a tricky one to handle. It feels like he belongs with the Slaanesh 'race', considering that he is Slaanesh's most notable champion, but CA may very well keep him with the Warriors of Chaos since he has been part of their roster for several years. They might bring out a different champion or ascended daemon of Slaanesh, such as Azazel, considering that re-releasing Sigvald might feel too 'cheap'. The Warriors of Chaos need and are getting an update with game 3 (confirmed), so they might be given limited access to some of the divided chaos warriors introduced via the monogod rosters.

    I think it would feel great if Valkia, Vilitch, Festus and Azazel were released as part of lord packs that also contained divided chaos lords / sorcerer lords + Daemon Prince generic lords, daemonhood ascension mechanics and humanoid / mortal chaos warrior units. If they don't like the idea of releasing lord packs for each monogod 'race', they could even merely do it all as part of a larger 'Chaos Unleashed' DLC pack that adds more divided chaos warrior units alongside daemon princes and daemonhood ascension mechanics.
  • Jastalll#1030Jastalll#1030 Registered Users Posts: 1,940
    Yitterbum said:

    Just because mono-god themed mortal units have been implemented incredibly poorly so far doesn't mean that more aren't coming.

    Tzeentch has the only poor ones if you ask me. Khorne and Slaanesh's mortals look great even if they definitely need more of them, and sadly Nurgle doesn't have any yet save for one hero who looks decent and Forsaken who are Forsaken but as DLC units I'm certain his Chosen/Putrid Blightkings/etc will look absolutely awesome.

  • DrazhoaththeAshen#9598DrazhoaththeAshen#9598 Registered Users Posts: 928
    Jastalll said:

    Yitterbum said:

    Just because mono-god themed mortal units have been implemented incredibly poorly so far doesn't mean that more aren't coming.

    Tzeentch has the only poor ones if you ask me. Khorne and Slaanesh's mortals look great even if they definitely need more of them, and sadly Nurgle doesn't have any yet save for one hero who looks decent and Forsaken who are Forsaken but as DLC units I'm certain his Chosen/Putrid Blightkings/etc will look absolutely awesome.

    And as is often the case, CA gives with one hand and takes with the other. While Tzeentch might be lacking now, that may bode well for the future. There is good will to be earned, and I think they know that.

    These forums are filled with great people, but gosh so many are choosing to be miserable or upset. Optimism seems anathema in these parts, and it is almost like people haven't lived through the previous two titles in this trilogy. Things will be added. Things will be improved. It isn't as if the current status is static. Let CA know, because that is how those improvements happen, but bickering about it just doesn't seem to serve.

    For my part, I just want the whole "quarter core" thing to end precisely because of what I said above. It takes the present situation and attempts to paint the entire future of this title with it. It is inherently pejorative, prejudicial, and pessimistic. Even a touch childish.
    What is normal for the spider is Chaos for the fly.
  • Xenos777Xenos777 Registered Users Posts: 8,038
    I don't see the point. Why should it be this way?
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,770
    So, assuming this is correct, what would be the first Tzeentch lord pack?

    LL: The Blue Scribes
    Lord: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (no mortal starting form)
    Heroes: ?
    Unit 1: Exalted Blue Horrors
    Unit 2: Changebringers
    Unit 3: ???
    Unit 4: ???

This discussion has been closed.