One drawback on the "New races specifically for Mortal Empires"

mw51630

Here is a snippet from this interview, if you have missed it;

https://dtf.ru/games/1043132-bolshe-syuzheta-i-vernost-pervoistochniku-intervyu-s-razrabotchikami-total-war-warhammer-iii

Should we expect a Mortal Empires campaign that brings all three games together?

P: Certainly, although not immediately on release. We won't reveal dates or other details just yet, but from the very beginning, when we worked on the first Total War: WARHAMMER, we wanted to present this franchise in a worthy manner. We had plans for three games, which then had to come together in one giant map that united this entire universe, and now we, we will certainly do so. So you can look forward to dripping with all the factions from all three installments, plus a few more that we have created in collaboration with Games Workshop specifically for the upcoming Mortal Empires.

"But we still have room to grow. Even Cathay has additional content that we would like to include in the game through DLC, and we hope that Warhammer fans will see, if not all, then much of what they hoped to see. You can definitely count on the fact that some factions that are well-established in the setting, and have not received their own army roster, will get into the game. "

Now, in many ways this is great news (assuming it's completely true). It shows that CA and GW are working together on bringing to life even more races, much in the vein of Vampire Counts, Norsca, Cathay. It also shows that the limitations on the WH3 map aren't that relevant to what is coming, as they are meant for the larger New Mortal Empires.

However, I did realize one thing; this is assumedly going to be DLC, and Mortal Empires will only be playable for owners of all three games (or at least, game 2 and 3). It's hard to imagine CA creating a new race and then limiting their buyers to only those who have multiple games.

So I don't think it will be, it will probably be DLC that works for those who own just WH3... but that doesn't work right, if it's just for Mortal Empires, and there is no room for them on the main WH3 map? And then it clicked; they will probably appear as DLC for Warhammer 3, but will have a mini-campaign for folks to play if you just own game WH3.

CA has clearly shown they're not giving up on mini-campaigns, as there are 4 campaigns coming with the launch of WH3. By creating more mini-campaigns for new races, they don't need to expand the map of game 3, they just need to have Mortal Empires be big.

So for example, a Nippon DLC. Right now in WH3, there's no room for them on that map. But if there is room for them on the New Mortal Empires map, they work. But to also sell to exclusive Wh3 owners, I see CA including a mini-campaign that is the coast of Cathay, possibly even designed with the 8 players in mind. That way, they can still sell to WH3 owners and not just owners of all three games.

Am I onto something here, or is this complete nonsense?

ROMOBOY

No this isn't nonsense. We discussed this in the other thread. I have 2 theories, either they have to make mini-campaigns (whilst also keeping the campaign pack standard of 4 LLs and almost a complete roster). Or they came up with some way to stitch huge chunks onto the existing map (I haven't seen much fog though on the map besides a little in Cathay).

GreenColoured

mw51630 said:

However, I did realize one thing; this is assumedly going to be DLC, and Mortal Empires will only be playable for owners of all three games (or at least, game 2 and 3). It's hard to imagine CA creating a new race and then limiting their buyers to only those who have multiple games.

So I don't think it will be, it will probably be DLC that works for those who own just WH3... but that doesn't work right, if it's just for Mortal Empires, and there is no room for them on the main WH3 map? And then it clicked; they will probably appear as DLC for Warhammer 3, but will have a mini-campaign for folks to play if you just own game WH3.

CA has clearly shown they're not giving up on mini-campaigns, as there are 4 campaigns coming with the launch of WH3. By creating more mini-campaigns for new races, they don't need to expand the map of game 3, they just need to have Mortal Empires be big.

So for example, a Nippon DLC. Right now in WH3, there's no room for them on that map. But if there is room for them on the New Mortal Empires map, they work. But to also sell to exclusive Wh3 owners, I see CA including a mini-campaign that is the coast of Cathay, possibly even designed with the 8 players in mind. That way, they can still sell to WH3 owners and not just owners of all three games.

Am I onto something here, or is this complete nonsense?

Is that...a bad thing? Assuming your fears are true, then just buy the previous two games, they're not that expensive.



Anyways this is most assuredly untrue anyways. Most likely if you buy the hypothetical DLC faction, you can access ME playing WH3 base game and the DLC faction only, and you need to buy the rest from WH2 and 1.

mw51630

ROMOBOY said:

No this isn't nonsense. We discussed this in the other thread. I have 2 theories, either they have to make mini-campaigns (whilst also keeping the campaign pack standard of 4 LLs and almost a complete roster). Or they came up with some way to stitch huge chunks onto the existing map (I haven't seen much fog though on the map besides a little in Cathay).

The latter seems a little unlikely to me, just because the map seems so set on being a perfect square. I'm sure they can, but I feel they probably don't want to.

The minicampaign thing makes some sense to me, especially if it's accompanied by FLC. So for example, you do Nippon which is south Cathay plus the coast sea, you could add Yin-Yin the sea dragon, maybe the Jade Dragon, a Dark Elf LL (old or entirely new) and Nippon. That's a lot of LLs, makes sense for at least 4 player campaigns.

overtaker40#8926

The above options are actually pretty good alternatives, But I also dont understand why they dont just unlock ME3 for everyone. Just keep the lords they dont have locked. otherwise someone new to the franchise could potentially have too buy 2 full games on top of three and the exlcusive dlc and could be looking at $300+ to play.

mw51630

GreenColoured said:

mw51630 said:

However, I did realize one thing; this is assumedly going to be DLC, and Mortal Empires will only be playable for owners of all three games (or at least, game 2 and 3). It's hard to imagine CA creating a new race and then limiting their buyers to only those who have multiple games.

So I don't think it will be, it will probably be DLC that works for those who own just WH3... but that doesn't work right, if it's just for Mortal Empires, and there is no room for them on the main WH3 map? And then it clicked; they will probably appear as DLC for Warhammer 3, but will have a mini-campaign for folks to play if you just own game WH3.

CA has clearly shown they're not giving up on mini-campaigns, as there are 4 campaigns coming with the launch of WH3. By creating more mini-campaigns for new races, they don't need to expand the map of game 3, they just need to have Mortal Empires be big.

So for example, a Nippon DLC. Right now in WH3, there's no room for them on that map. But if there is room for them on the New Mortal Empires map, they work. But to also sell to exclusive Wh3 owners, I see CA including a mini-campaign that is the coast of Cathay, possibly even designed with the 8 players in mind. That way, they can still sell to WH3 owners and not just owners of all three games.

Am I onto something here, or is this complete nonsense?

Is that...a bad thing? Assuming your fears are true, then just buy the previous two games, they're not that expensive.



Anyways this is most assuredly untrue anyways. Most likely if you buy the hypothetical DLC faction, you can access ME playing WH3 base game and the DLC faction only, and you need to buy the rest from WH2 and 1.

Not sure if it's a bad thing. Depends on the quality of the mini-campaigns honestly, and the Wood Elf/Beastmen campaigns are pretty awful. But mini-campaigns for other games can be pretty good! I mean, the meme of "Spent Charlemagnes" is from a mini-campaign DLC.

I own all three games btw.

saweendra

ROMOBOY said:

No this isn't nonsense. We discussed this in the other thread. I have 2 theories, either they have to make mini-campaigns (whilst also keeping the campaign pack standard of 4 LLs and almost a complete roster). Or they came up with some way to stitch huge chunks onto the existing map (I haven't seen much fog though on the map besides a little in Cathay).

theory one is plausible and it can be made by CA sofia , so doesn't effect effect main line dlc give it expansion pack label and they can in thoery charge it higher specially if it can also be played stand alone

GreenColoured

overtaker40 said:

The above options are actually pretty good alternatives, But I also dont understand why they dont just unlock ME3 for everyone. Just keep the lords they dont have locked. otherwise someone new to the franchise could potentially have too buy 2 full games on top of three and the exlcusive dlc and could be looking at $300+ to play.

I mean, that's not a bad deal. Games 1 and 2 are games in and of itself that they can play to their heart's content.


Not to mention, you're slightly over-estimating the value of ~$300 for a trilogy released across ~5 years. Most of us have more than enough money to spare even after family, work, food, and children.


That's not to mention the likely discounts and sales people could buy them in.

Bayes

Two more possibilities.

1. immortal empires for everyone! Owning the previous game just gives access to the races of that game. Clean easy solution.

2. what if their plan for future support of tww3 is not only dlc with new races but standalone dlc with their own campaigns with races also playable in immortal empires.

mw51630

GreenColoured said:

overtaker40 said:

The above options are actually pretty good alternatives, But I also dont understand why they dont just unlock ME3 for everyone. Just keep the lords they dont have locked. otherwise someone new to the franchise could potentially have too buy 2 full games on top of three and the exlcusive dlc and could be looking at $300+ to play.

I mean, that's not a bad deal. Games 1 and 2 are games in and of itself that they can play to their heart's content.


Not to mention, you're slightly over-estimating the value of ~$300 for a trilogy released across ~5 years. Most of us have more than enough money to spare even after family, work, food, and children.


That's not to mention the likely discounts and sales people could buy them in.

I very much agree that the total value, spread out over several years, is not a big deal. However, I still find it hard to imagine CA locking out folks who didn't play the first two games, simply for being too young, not playing strategy games before, or just hadn't noticed the series before.

I mean, there's kids who were 10 when WH1 released, 15 now. I don't see CA locking them (or anyone else) from buying DLC that needs all three games.

Commissar_G

You know... this got me thinking. They might actually just open up Mortal Empires to owners of game 3 but lock the content behind what you own. It's really no different than what they do with DLCs now.

Solves both issues.

HeresyHound

Commissar_G said:

You know... this got me thinking. They might actually just open up Mortal Empires to owners of game 3 but lock the content behind what you own. It's really no different than what they do with DLCs now.

Solves both issues.

I would genuinely be happy with that. Maybe give a LL or two for owning all 3 games?

Commissar_G

HedonistHound said:

Commissar_G said:

You know... this got me thinking. They might actually just open up Mortal Empires to owners of game 3 but lock the content behind what you own. It's really no different than what they do with DLCs now.

Solves both issues.

I would genuinely be happy with that. Maybe give a LL or two for owning all 3 games?

Toddy and The Red duke would work for that.

DarthEnderX-#6513

I don't see how not forcing people to buy WH1 and 2 would be a drawback.

I'd be all for this.

Thomashu

So for example, a Nippon DLC. Right now in WH3, there's no room for them on that map. But if there is room for them on the New Mortal Empires map, they work. But to also sell to exclusive Wh3 owners, I see CA including a mini-campaign that is the coast of Cathay, possibly even designed with the 8 players in mind. That way, they can still sell to WH3 owners and not just owners of all three games.

Yes, that would be a good idea and alternative for people who just own game III.

mw51630

Commissar_G said:

You know... this got me thinking. They might actually just open up Mortal Empires to owners of game 3 but lock the content behind what you own. It's really no different than what they do with DLCs now.

Solves both issues.

Yeah, they may just do this. On the business side I think it'd be smart; bunch of folks would be jealous and want to play all those other factions!

Walkabout

Commissar_G said:

You know... this got me thinking. They might actually just open up Mortal Empires to owners of game 3 but lock the content behind what you own. It's really no different than what they do with DLCs now.

Solves both issues.

Yep this if by far the most likely.

neverending

mw51630 said:

Am I onto something here, or is this complete nonsense?

No, I think you're right, and I think it's very possible CA may make it possible to access Immortal Empires (or whatever they call it) if you own just *one* of the three games after... say 6 months to 2 years after the release of TWW3.

I don't think anyone would really mind that much at the end of the day and it would make it to where they could sell DLC faction packs or whatever easily and not have to make content for the corresponding faction on the TWW3 faction map either.

I've been thinking about making a poll/thread about this and what people here would think. I'm going to own all 3 games soon and would have no problem with CA doing this, especially if it made their content production smoother and with less hassle since it wouldn't involve QA in two different campaigns simultaneously.

I can see how initially pitching people buying all three games to get a giant map might've sounded like a cool idea at a board meeting, however a newcomer coming to the trilogy *right now* might find getting access to IME very daunting and not worth the investment/risk. Them buying one game and being able to just simply see the IME map in it's scope would invite them to keep getting DLCs at their leisure and always see what they're missing, instead of only on youtube videos or something. Indeed, what total percent of people who bought TWW2 were even aware if they bought TWW1 they would get Mortal Empires? Hard to say, only CA has even a hit of that type of knowledge.

I hope this is indeed their plan and why they're only really developing the races for Immortal Empires instead of trying to squeeze them into a TWW3 map as well. I like it, since I'm probably only going to be playing the big map at the end of the trilogy most of the time (tho these new coop maps are at least very interesting to read about).

Ben1990#8909

ROMOBOY said:

No this isn't nonsense. We discussed this in the other thread. I have 2 theories, either they have to make mini-campaigns (whilst also keeping the campaign pack standard of 4 LLs and almost a complete roster). Or they came up with some way to stitch huge chunks onto the existing map (I haven't seen much fog though on the map besides a little in Cathay).

Mini-Campaigns? Not until the end of game 3's life-cycle when all factions have complete rosters. There is a reason why they didn't pan out in game 1.

Lunaticprince#9972

DavidtheDuke said:

mw51630 said:

Am I onto something here, or is this complete nonsense?

No, I think you're right, and I think it's very possible CA may make it possible to access Immortal Empires (or whatever they call it) if you own just *one* of the three games after... say 6 months to 2 years after the release of TWW3.

I don't think anyone would really mind that much at the end of the day and it would make it to where they could sell DLC faction packs or whatever easily and not have to make content for the corresponding faction on the TWW3 faction map either.

I've been thinking about making a poll/thread about this and what people here would think. I'm going to own all 3 games soon and would have no problem with CA doing this, especially if it made their content production smoother and with less hassle since it wouldn't involve QA in two different campaigns simultaneously.

I can see how initially pitching people buying all three games to get a giant map might've sounded like a cool idea at a board meeting, however a newcomer coming to the trilogy *right now* might find getting access to IME very daunting and not worth the investment/risk. Them buying one game and being able to just simply see the IME map in it's scope would invite them to keep getting DLCs at their leisure and always see what they're missing, instead of only on youtube videos or something. Indeed, what total percent of people who bought TWW2 were even aware if they bought TWW1 they would get Mortal Empires? Hard to say, only CA has even a hit of that type of knowledge.

I hope this is indeed their plan and why they're only really developing the races for Immortal Empires instead of trying to squeeze them into a TWW3 map as well. I like it, since I'm probably only going to be playing the big map at the end of the trilogy most of the time (tho these new coop maps are at least very interesting to read about).

I think you have a point (some say hey is bit unfair for the others) but not really?

First player who just have wh3 could play on the me and have intressting new enemies so varation is packed, then they maybe see one they really like, like somene who play undivided go to southland and rumble with tk and say to himself (awww this dudes are great wanna play them) and bamm! buy the dlc and wh2.

Because lets be real, wh1 and 2, have no value anymore since wh3, player who hope for update for their favorite race have to boy wh3 anyway to get new flc and dlcs, player who want more new stuff have to get wh3 too, etc.

Also would give ca just the flexibility of adding things in, without looking out for the story to much.

Here a point (in wh2 was the vortex and me equal) that true but?!!!!!


They have to be threaten equal because! Player need two games to acces me!

So they have to make both attractive to be played when they do crossover or normal dlcs.

But if the Me2 map is open at the very beginning that not necessary anymore.

Player not get acces to the rest of the race content (example with crossover) still they not need a whole new game.

Honestly the fanbase not really care.

Wh1 and 2 are any when wh3 is out just faction onlocker at this point.

PoorManatee6197

Mini campaigns are good as long as it doesnt mean less LL and units, I'm ok with paying more to have everything.

Loremaster of sotek said some time ago that game 3 will have new types of DLC, dont know if it was a leak or he was just talking about what he would like, but theres that.

PoorManatee6197

Funny, a year ago I suggested on reddit that making all the DLC have to be on the divided map was very limiting in the long run and CA should make inmortal empires abailable to people who only has game 3, only with game 3 races of course, so they can make DLC of anything. Majority of people disagreed back then but now it looks like they are doing it


I know no one cares, I just wanted to share it.

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DavidTWWH#4143

If they have to go back to mini campaigns for the sake of adding new races, so be it. And if they want to give mortal empires to all owners of game 3 that's a great thing in my book.

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Mazisky#3267

Mini campaing are an awful waste of resources and I really hope they won't do those.

The only way this is acceptable if they port all the assets of those (maps, cutscenes, artworks, events, etc.) into the Combined map.

KirGeo

I'm expecting CA to move more to the Immortal Empires map after a couple of years after game launch. If the plan is to support the game long term.

The combined map FLC might be implemented different in game 3 compared to 2, with each game purchase unlocking the respective LL in the combined map. Having all 3 might give a couple of extra LL like with Drycha currently.

Commissar_G

KirGeo said:

I'm expecting CA to move more to the Immortal Empires map after a couple of years after game launch. If the plan is to support the game long term.

The combined map FLC might be implemented different in game 3 compared to 2, with each game purchase unlocking the respective LL in the combined map. Having all 3 might give a couple of extra LL like with Drycha currently.

A lot of people had kind of deflated hype having seen the WH:3 standalone map and what that meant for the combined map. However, if the plan truly is to do combined map exclusive DLC then it's scale might be even larger than we anticipated since DLC is no longer predicated on being on both maps.

Commissar_G

Another random thought I had. I wonder if when they did the ME expansion they were genuinely considering adding Nagash/Undead Legions in whatever form they had planned but had to pull the plug on it because of the lack of Vortex starting options.

overtaker40#8926

Ben1990 said:

ROMOBOY said:

No this isn't nonsense. We discussed this in the other thread. I have 2 theories, either they have to make mini-campaigns (whilst also keeping the campaign pack standard of 4 LLs and almost a complete roster). Or they came up with some way to stitch huge chunks onto the existing map (I haven't seen much fog though on the map besides a little in Cathay).

Mini-Campaigns? Not until the end of game 3's life-cycle when all factions have complete rosters. There is a reason why they didn't pan out in game 1.

Cause Total warwarhammer was experienceing growing pains? Easily enough now to do some smaller campaigns around athel loren. corrupted glades, herdstones and ariel to improve on seasons of revelations.

There are so many characters and mechanics that at least a few more smaller campaigns could work. for just about any factions currently in game. the three way fight between queek, belegar and skarsnik for K8P? they could even add minor lords and heroes to flesh them out and likely would if they did do it, characters they know will never get full campaign packs.

Why not at least wait till you have tried a couple of the small campaigns coming with 3 before you knock their potential.