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Some tentative pros and cons of the MP game design and "balance" of tactics

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Comments

  • Sarmatianns#6760Sarmatianns#6760 Registered Users Posts: 4,926

    I mean sure, it's somewhat immersion breaking, but make no mistake - losing a 2k-3.5k LL is still a huge setback (that's gold that could otherwise be spent on a net gain of units, not simply replacing units that you start the game with). Theoretically, this gives your opponent a huge army advantage (unless the Lord somehow did damage equal to his value, but that seems pretty rare).
    - personally, my immersion is broken every time I see WoC players spam marauder horsemen/horsemasters, manticores, and chaff frontline (maybe they take forsaken or spawn or something too). I never see my lovable chosen anywhere in competitive play. If "reviving" your lord is the cost of increasing viable builds and unit variety on the field, that's fine with me.

    In DoW2, replacing your hero in 1v1 is rather forgiving with a relatively low Requisition cost, but it's still considered pretty bad because you are basically down at least a net 250 requisition for a unit that you essentially start with for free, who is not providing any value while dead, and that requisition can't be used on other new squads now.

    It doesn't really work like that. If you lose a unit, getting it back is a net gain.

    If you have a unit of ice guard that is basically dead, re-summoning it or summoning a new one is pretty much the same effect.
  • eumaies#1128eumaies#1128 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,508

    I mean sure, it's somewhat immersion breaking, but make no mistake - losing a 2k-3.5k LL is still a huge setback (that's gold that could otherwise be spent on a net gain of units, not simply replacing units that you start the game with). Theoretically, this gives your opponent a huge army advantage (unless the Lord somehow did damage equal to his value, but that seems pretty rare).
    - personally, my immersion is broken every time I see WoC players spam marauder horsemen/horsemasters, manticores, and chaff frontline (maybe they take forsaken or spawn or something too). I never see my lovable chosen anywhere in competitive play. If "reviving" your lord is the cost of increasing viable builds and unit variety on the field, that's fine with me.

    In DoW2, replacing your hero in 1v1 is rather forgiving with a relatively low Requisition cost, but it's still considered pretty bad because you are basically down at least a net 250 requisition for a unit that you essentially start with for free, who is not providing any value while dead, and that requisition can't be used on other new squads now.

    It doesn't really work like that. If you lose a unit, getting it back is a net gain.

    If you have a unit of ice guard that is basically dead, re-summoning it or summoning a new one is pretty much the same effect.
    units that die take a while before they available to be purchased again. so while not dramatic there is a penalty to your army options while a unit has been killed.
  • griffithx#1314griffithx#1314 Registered Users Posts: 1,514
    It would be cool if they could somehow find a method to retain immersion for this game mode but I do see why you would need the ability to resummon lord's/heroes in a game mode like this.

    My impression is that much of the value of a game mode like this is prolonging the amount of engagements players can have while preserving the ability for both sides to have the opportunity to pull a win out as long as possible.
    Without the ability to resummon lord's/heroes when every other unit can be resummoned I can forsee many matches where people go all in on sniping the casters immediately even taking extreme losses just sending everything at the lord's/heroes to get that unit off the field asap since it would be the only unit type you can't resummon and provides so much utility.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,311





    honestly improving this is much better than domination mode(its way more epic) plus there is nearly 3 games worth of land battle maps now so be lot more replyable

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • eumaies#1128eumaies#1128 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,508
    saweendra said:






    honestly improving this is much better than domination mode(its way more epic) plus there is nearly 3 games worth of land battle maps now so be lot more replyable

    Such a great ending and cast by Zerk. Honestly I think both modes are fun. TBD if domination mode acquires a sustained player base or if it fizzles out. But developing a more elimination mode battle victory condition as part of the mortal empires launch might be a nice way to restart if the MP scene needs a shot in the arm at that point.
  • vindicarexvindicarex Registered Users Posts: 121

    I mean sure, it's somewhat immersion breaking, but make no mistake - losing a 2k-3.5k LL is still a huge setback (that's gold that could otherwise be spent on a net gain of units, not simply replacing units that you start the game with). Theoretically, this gives your opponent a huge army advantage (unless the Lord somehow did damage equal to his value, but that seems pretty rare).
    - personally, my immersion is broken every time I see WoC players spam marauder horsemen/horsemasters, manticores, and chaff frontline (maybe they take forsaken or spawn or something too). I never see my lovable chosen anywhere in competitive play. If "reviving" your lord is the cost of increasing viable builds and unit variety on the field, that's fine with me.

    In DoW2, replacing your hero in 1v1 is rather forgiving with a relatively low Requisition cost, but it's still considered pretty bad because you are basically down at least a net 250 requisition for a unit that you essentially start with for free, who is not providing any value while dead, and that requisition can't be used on other new squads now.

    It doesn't really work like that. If you lose a unit, getting it back is a net gain.

    If you have a unit of ice guard that is basically dead, re-summoning it or summoning a new one is pretty much the same effect.
    Lol no. Strictly not a net gain. A gain sure, but you will be in a strictly worse state than if your lord did not die.

    If you start a game of domination mode with Your lord and 4 other things, a net gain would be adding on to that existing army. Simply reinforcing the lord who died means, instead of adding on to that existing army, you are simply getting back to square 1.

    Meanwhile, your opponent can reinforce maybe like 4-8 new squads in addition to his original army + lord. Now he has a huge army compared to yours since you spent all that resources simply regaining your original army you start the game with...
  • Sarmatianns#6760Sarmatianns#6760 Registered Users Posts: 4,926


    but you will be in a strictly worse state than if your lord did not die.

    That is true regardless of the ability to resummon, and as such, irrelevant for the discussion.
  • vindicarexvindicarex Registered Users Posts: 121

    I mean sure, it's somewhat immersion breaking, but make no mistake - losing a 2k-3.5k LL is still a huge setback (that's gold that could otherwise be spent on a net gain of units, not simply replacing units that you start the game with). Theoretically, this gives your opponent a huge army advantage (unless the Lord somehow did damage equal to his value, but that seems pretty rare).
    - personally, my immersion is broken every time I see WoC players spam marauder horsemen/horsemasters, manticores, and chaff frontline (maybe they take forsaken or spawn or something too). I never see my lovable chosen anywhere in competitive play. If "reviving" your lord is the cost of increasing viable builds and unit variety on the field, that's fine with me.

    In DoW2, replacing your hero in 1v1 is rather forgiving with a relatively low Requisition cost, but it's still considered pretty bad because you are basically down at least a net 250 requisition for a unit that you essentially start with for free, who is not providing any value while dead, and that requisition can't be used on other new squads now.

    It doesn't really work like that. If you lose a unit, getting it back is a net gain.

    If you have a unit of ice guard that is basically dead, re-summoning it or summoning a new one is pretty much the same effect.

    Not irrelevant, simply responding to your statement on how getting back a unit you lose is a "net" gain. It simply is not, you are using the meaning of "net gain" wrong.
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