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I'm incredibly disappointed and to be honest sad that it has come to this.
I really wouldn't mind so much if it were a two way street - let people choose which mode in QB. But this is rather heavy handed enforcing something so different and frankly not that fun on the player base.
I get that some people like domination, all power to you, but there is no reason for a single mode, particularly an experimental one to be the only answer.
Give me that tick box at QB: Domination only Land Battles only Or both
Really shouldn't be a problem. And I don't buy the splitting player base argument at all. It's not a problem elsewhere with capture the flag, team Deathmatch, Deathmatch etc. Particularly when it's PVP not even team PVP
One reason might be balance issues, although I'm not so confident CA had so much foresight, given their track record with MP, but it would be a problem.
Take Cathay, for example. Considered among weaker factions in domination, I found it very capable in classic battles. Nurgle is almost universally considered weakest faction in domination, but it is playable in classic land battles.
For my part, I tried giving domination a fair chance and found it lacking. Give us classic Land Battle back, with a single capture point in the middle that appears after 10 minutes and make it ranked. Domination should be mode primarily for fun, like FFA. I'm saying this just in terms of what I think would be good for the game in the long run. For me personally, I just want a queue for land battles (even just as they were in WH2), doesn't have to be ranked at all. I really don't care about ladder rankings. For me it is just about getting quick and easy games that give you an opponent, set up appropriate funds and pick a random map from a roughly pre approved pool, with a single click.
this is a very important point in most of the new maps thats gonna come out in wh 3 are gonna be land battle maps which means the map pool for land battles will be huge compared to all other fun modes like dominations which also plays a big role in longevity
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
It was a good tourney and I recommend watching it as well.
Doesn't change that the many of the maps really restricted the tactics, and that this will become more and more evident when every fight occurs on the same patch of restricted ground every time in every tourney.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
They are but kislev for sure and cathay aren't but honestly its just doesn't have the same impact as a land battle to watch and play. Do some big brain play to remove a unit or core of units doesn't matter in the end they just come back..
Kill the lord or hero they can just come back.
It just doesn't matter any of those any more from watching and playing stand point.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
They are but kislev for sure and cathay aren't but honestly its just doesn't have the same impact as a land battle to watch and play. Do some big brain play to remove a unit or core of units doesn't matter in the end they just come back..
Kill the lord or hero they can just come back.
It just doesn't matter any of those any more from watching and playing stand point.
at least as a player of domination i think it matters alot when you get a good kill/situation. But that can get a little lost when the maps encourage unnecessary focus on things like clogging narrow alleys and reinforcing grinds instead of outflanking somebody and scoring a tactical win.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
They are but kislev for sure and cathay aren't but honestly its just doesn't have the same impact as a land battle to watch and play. Do some big brain play to remove a unit or core of units doesn't matter in the end they just come back..
Kill the lord or hero they can just come back.
It just doesn't matter any of those any more from watching and playing stand point.
at least as a player of domination i think it matters alot when you get a good kill/situation. But that can get a little lost when the maps encourage unnecessary focus on things like clogging narrow alleys and reinforcing grinds instead of outflanking somebody and scoring a tactical win.
thats just how most of dom matches ends for me any ways not satisfing at all , its so samey this obviously can be fixed if they just remove the ability to resummon dead or routed units and it will make battle field clean up much more important
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
The monogods are kind of supposed to be 2 trick ponies though. They’re supposed to be very specialized at one thing to the point of being better than any mortal faction at doing it. Khorne at melee grind, Nurgle at tanking, slaanesh at speed and flanking, tzeentch at magic and mass firepower. The mortal factions have the advantage of more tactical diversity.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
The monogods are kind of supposed to be 2 trick ponies though. They’re supposed to be very specialized at one thing to the point of being better than any mortal faction at doing it. Khorne at melee grind, Nurgle at tanking, slaanesh at speed and flanking, tzeentch at magic and mass firepower. The mortal factions have the advantage of more tactical diversity.
well then they did what they wanted. but it's not very interesting for multiplayer, nor easy to be balanced.
Its just a constant spam of new units running heedlessly first into capture points, only strategy that happens is during the first 3min before CP open after that almost every game evolves into same style.
Its just a constant spam of new units running heedlessly first into capture points, only strategy that happens is during the first 3min before CP open after that almost every game evolves into same style.
I guess the four guys who made it to the final could strategize more than 3mins into the match then huh.
Well, it is hard to talk about some strong tactical plays, when you have several units engaged and then each side gets to summon one more at roughly similar intervals.
It becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
Its just a constant spam of new units running heedlessly first into capture points, only strategy that happens is during the first 3min before CP open after that almost every game evolves into same style.
I guess the four guys who made it to the final could strategize more than 3mins into the match then huh.
I watched it and i disagree, not saying there was no strategy but all the games past 3 min mark felt the same. Apart from when the engagements are delayed
You're so blinkered by what you believe the rules are rather than try and strategize new tactics, simple because there are some differences to a standard land battle.
Those linked games showed tactics well outside your "engage within 3 mins", "fight on the point", "trickle reinforcements on a grind" and "only pick one unit at a time" mentality. There were games with Slannesh, Cathay and Kislev, all holding their own despite being held on these forums as "weaker" factions. There were dynamic battles at the spawn locations, pincers, cannons, yin and yang being used and no use of pendulum.
More maps would be great. Especially since this is the ladder game mode. A functioning ladder ELO would also help immensely for finding equal skilled opponents. Going back to land battles and faction roulette is not. Go sign up for some tournaments. I don't want to read a 10 page pdf to know which units, spells or factions I need to actually play the game. Or get cheesed into oblivion.
You're so blinkered by what you believe the rules are rather than try and strategize new tactics, simple because there are some differences to a standard land battle.
Those linked games showed tactics well outside your "engage within 3 mins", "fight on the point", "trickle reinforcements on a grind" and "only pick one unit at a time" mentality. There were games with Slannesh, Cathay and Kislev, all holding their own despite being held on these forums as "weaker" factions. There were dynamic battles at the spawn locations, pincers, cannons, yin and yang being used and no use of pendulum.
More maps would be great. Especially since this is the ladder game mode. A functioning ladder ELO would also help immensely for finding equal skilled opponents. Going back to land battles and faction roulette is not. Go sign up for some tournaments. I don't want to read a 10 page pdf to know which units, spells or factions I need to actually play the game. Or get cheesed into oblivion.
I watched those games and they pretty much all played the same based on what factions were used.
And you do realize pendulem was banned for this event yeah?
You’re being really blinded by you support for the mode.
Your last point is very silly also since the “10” pages of rules would be avoided with CP in land battle BUT even further more NO ONE is saying remove DOM just have land battles alongside it so that whole paragraph is moot.
There’s nothing wrong with capture points but the scale and speed of the reinforcements/reinforcement points ruins the game mode for me. I want to focus on the fighting and decisive engagements not who I’m going to bring in next.
As far as which is more popular I don’t know but just going off of lobbies land battles seem more popular.
After having had some time to play domination mode, my opinion is largely the same with a few clarifications.
Atillery is not pointless. Been having some fun with the Cathey rockets and cannons. I was unaware that you could despawn them and bring them back with full ammo.
The issue is more that their is very little incentive to take any risk. Why bother bringing a 1300 gold rocket battery when your opponent can bring a 500gold counter. Even if he has initially failed to prepare for a specific threat.
Due to the relatively small starting funds, most battles seem to start in a very similar way. With a constant stream of mid and low tier units taking far to long to die at one of the capture points.
The blobs of opposing forces seem to forget orders in a short time period. Particularly singe ents.
While I understand of course that people will have different opinions. Mine is that domination game mode is an attempt to make MP more accessible to new players, by greatly reducing the number of units requiring micro and tactics.
The obvious thing to do would just be reinstate land battle with a capture point activating in the last 5 minutes or so. Then see which game mode is more popular.
I understand that splitting the MP community is a bad idea, as beta patches often prove. But I'm not sure it's a minority that want land battles back as a ranked option. Certainly in a few more weeks when the novelty of domination wheres off.
I won't bother mentioning race balance issues at this time.
Well, it is hard to talk about some strong tactical plays, when you have several units engaged and then each side gets to summon one more at roughly similar intervals.
It becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
I don't think in theory a game mode of this kind has to lack tactics. Feeding units into a compromised tactical position is a good way to lose; knowing when to retreat and when to engage and where, and using the map terrain (when the map isn't terrible) can all be very important. There's also a potential for an interesting dynamic balance where each player has a "home turf" advantage that allows for regrouping and multiple phases of the fight.
In short, regardless of what one thinks about the immersion, there's the potential for plenty of strategy and tactics.
But these maps don't have very good terrain, they mostly just have corridors. And in a corridor fight over a cap point the incentive to just clog up the lanes and push for capture power is a lot stronger. In a better implemented version of something like this, you'd have interesting terrain like rivers, hills, and forests, that allow armies to take positional advantage relative to caps and influence the manner in which large scale engagements occur, the results of which decide the game more-so than the grind for points dynamic.
This is present to a degree on some maps and in some games, but as released -- and combined with terrible buggy units and terrible balancing -- it's really hard to tell if the game mode is driving things so much as other factors.
Well, it is hard to talk about some strong tactical plays, when you have several units engaged and then each side gets to summon one more at roughly similar intervals.
It becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
I don't think in theory a game mode of this kind has to lack tactics. Feeding units into a compromised tactical position is a good way to lose; knowing when to retreat and when to engage and where, and using the map terrain (when the map isn't terrible) can all be very important. There's also a potential for an interesting dynamic balance where each player has a "home turf" advantage that allows for regrouping and multiple phases of the fight.
In short, regardless of what one thinks about the immersion, there's the potential for plenty of strategy and tactics.
But these maps don't have very good terrain, they mostly just have corridors. And in a corridor fight over a cap point the incentive to just clog up the lanes and push for capture power is a lot stronger. In a better implemented version of something like this, you'd have interesting terrain like rivers, hills, and forests, that allow armies to take positional advantage relative to caps and influence the manner in which large scale engagements occur, the results of which decide the game more-so than the grind for points dynamic.
This is present to a degree on some maps and in some games, but as released -- and combined with terrible buggy units and terrible balancing -- it's really hard to tell if the game mode is driving things so much as other factors.
As I've already mentioned, let's say we play a HE-Dwarfs matchup - what's there to stop you from bringing back a noble on chariot every time he's killed?
To clarify, I'm not saying that noble on a chariot will be meta in domination. He might not be. It's just an example to illustrate the point. What is stopping me from bringing hardest possible counter every time? It seems that it will push matchups further to the extreme, emphasizing weaknesses and strengths.
I get what you're saying. It's not like there's no tactics. It is bound to get better with better maps and better balance and after bugs are sorted out. I don't disagree with that. It just seems to me it will still be less engaging mode after all.
I've shelved the game until old factions are reintroduced and bugs are ironed out, and I'm hoping I will find it at least somewhat fun to push me to play.
That being said, I don't have very high hopes. BUT, I do think that CA should reintroduce at least non ranked classic land battles queue. Keep domination as "official ranked mode", just give me option to play land battles back. I do think that keeping domination mode would be bad for long term health of multiplayer, but that is just my impression. I may very well be wrong about that. But, liking it or not, I don't think anyone should be against at least a non ranked classic queue. If anyone is against that idea, then it is honestly nothing else but spite - I find domination fun and everyone must have fun in the same way I do or they should do something else.
Well, it is hard to talk about some strong tactical plays, when you have several units engaged and then each side gets to summon one more at roughly similar intervals.
It becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
I don't think in theory a game mode of this kind has to lack tactics. Feeding units into a compromised tactical position is a good way to lose; knowing when to retreat and when to engage and where, and using the map terrain (when the map isn't terrible) can all be very important. There's also a potential for an interesting dynamic balance where each player has a "home turf" advantage that allows for regrouping and multiple phases of the fight.
In short, regardless of what one thinks about the immersion, there's the potential for plenty of strategy and tactics.
But these maps don't have very good terrain, they mostly just have corridors. And in a corridor fight over a cap point the incentive to just clog up the lanes and push for capture power is a lot stronger. In a better implemented version of something like this, you'd have interesting terrain like rivers, hills, and forests, that allow armies to take positional advantage relative to caps and influence the manner in which large scale engagements occur, the results of which decide the game more-so than the grind for points dynamic.
This is present to a degree on some maps and in some games, but as released -- and combined with terrible buggy units and terrible balancing -- it's really hard to tell if the game mode is driving things so much as other factors.
As I've already mentioned, let's say we play a HE-Dwarfs matchup - what's there to stop you from bringing back a noble on chariot every time he's killed?
To clarify, I'm not saying that noble on a chariot will be meta in domination. He might not be. It's just an example to illustrate the point. What is stopping me from bringing hardest possible counter every time? It seems that it will push matchups further to the extreme, emphasizing weaknesses and strengths.
I get what you're saying. It's not like there's no tactics. It is bound to get better with better maps and better balance and after bugs are sorted out. I don't disagree with that. It just seems to me it will still be less engaging mode after all.
I've shelved the game until old factions are reintroduced and bugs are ironed out, and I'm hoping I will find it at least somewhat fun to push me to play.
That being said, I don't have very high hopes. BUT, I do think that CA should reintroduce at least non ranked classic land battles queue. Keep domination as "official ranked mode", just give me option to play land battles back. I do think that keeping domination mode would be bad for long term health of multiplayer, but that is just my impression. I may very well be wrong about that. But, liking it or not, I don't think anyone should be against at least a non ranked classic queue. If anyone is against that idea, then it is honestly nothing else but spite - I find domination fun and everyone must have fun in the same way I do or they should do something else.
See, I agree with your point about respawning defeated units. If you beat a unit - morale break off the field or death - it should be removed from the game. 100%
I also think two weeks of meta isn't enough to write off a new gamemode, and I believe this is where WII and WIII multiplayer suffers the most. We need the other factions to provide a better picture of multiplayer gameplay. With demons being unbreakable and all rosters intentionally limited for future dlc, of course multiplayer is going to suffer.
The buggy singleplayer campaign (supply line bug back again?), the focus will be on fixing that first (unfortunately), the broken lobbies, the primary focus of players to play singleplayer (not everyone knows all the units of even on faction day one, it can be daunting), lack of a chat feature. There is an extensive list.
There's a lot of room to grow, and step one is fixing the multiplayer ladder and ELO matchmaking. Then more factions.
Turin's opening weekend tournament really highlighted some fantastic matches and strategy for domination matches.
I mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
Honestly got bored its literally the same fights now with pit of shades than pendulum.
You only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
The mono god factions are two trick ponies in land battles as well. But they’ll be fleshed out later.
The monogods are kind of supposed to be 2 trick ponies though. They’re supposed to be very specialized at one thing to the point of being better than any mortal faction at doing it. Khorne at melee grind, Nurgle at tanking, slaanesh at speed and flanking, tzeentch at magic and mass firepower. The mortal factions have the advantage of more tactical diversity.
well then they did what they wanted. but it's not very interesting for multiplayer, nor easy to be balanced.
No, but that's not really the problem of CA; it's how the factions are supposed to be. Battles between the current factions will be rather binary regardless of the game mode (Probably more-so in land battles if anything, particularly for Nurgle, which can play with more tactical variety in domination than in land battles.), so much of what's being complained about likely has as much to do with the limitations of the current factions as it is the game mode. Domination gives factions with good mobility more chances to play the objectives to get the win if they can't take a fight head-on.
Land battles also got repetitive and start to all look the same, as people tended to bring similar armies and use the same tactics in every game, especially if they get more competitive, because whatever works the best just works the best. The variety really just comes from having more factions available, and different match ups forcing players to do different things if they want to win.
Due to the relatively small starting funds, most battles seem to start in a very similar way. With a constant stream of mid and low tier units taking far to long to die at one of the capture points.
The blobs of opposing forces seem to forget orders in a short time period. Particularly singe ents.
Fights are slow because they changed the default scale to ultra. Units just don't make as much relative contact as they did in WH2, so they take damage relatively slower, and that makes melee engagements in particular quite a bit longer, which is why you're seeing chaff survive so much longer.
The small starting funds are something that a lot of players are bringing up, and I agree that the game mode would probably benefit from larger starting armies, since it'd make more tactics viable. It'd be particularly helpful for Cathay, due to the harmony mechanic. It'll be easier to form and maintain/protect a formation that can activate harmony with more starting funds.
Units dropping orders in combat, especially in blobs, is nothing new. Whenever an entity is outside of melee range of its current target, or if its order is untargeted, then it will drop the order when it encounters a new enemy (If I'm not mistaken, there's a ~5s timer before a move order can be dropped after it is issued, unless it uses another animation like being attacked, knocked down, or staggered). Single entity animations often push their target out of melee range, especially if it's another single entity. Also, being staggered/knocked down can cause single entities to drop orders.
Well, it is hard to talk about some strong tactical plays, when you have several units engaged and then each side gets to summon one more at roughly similar intervals.
It becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
I don't think in theory a game mode of this kind has to lack tactics. Feeding units into a compromised tactical position is a good way to lose; knowing when to retreat and when to engage and where, and using the map terrain (when the map isn't terrible) can all be very important. There's also a potential for an interesting dynamic balance where each player has a "home turf" advantage that allows for regrouping and multiple phases of the fight.
In short, regardless of what one thinks about the immersion, there's the potential for plenty of strategy and tactics.
But these maps don't have very good terrain, they mostly just have corridors. And in a corridor fight over a cap point the incentive to just clog up the lanes and push for capture power is a lot stronger. In a better implemented version of something like this, you'd have interesting terrain like rivers, hills, and forests, that allow armies to take positional advantage relative to caps and influence the manner in which large scale engagements occur, the results of which decide the game more-so than the grind for points dynamic.
This is present to a degree on some maps and in some games, but as released -- and combined with terrible buggy units and terrible balancing -- it's really hard to tell if the game mode is driving things so much as other factors.
As I've already mentioned, let's say we play a HE-Dwarfs matchup - what's there to stop you from bringing back a noble on chariot every time he's killed?
To clarify, I'm not saying that noble on a chariot will be meta in domination. He might not be. It's just an example to illustrate the point. What is stopping me from bringing hardest possible counter every time? It seems that it will push matchups further to the extreme, emphasizing weaknesses and strengths.
Issues with reviving/resummoning could be largely resolved by just making the "cooldown" time to bring back units longer. If you have to wait 2 minutes + the time it takes for the unit to heal to bring it back, resummoning units would be a lot more limited.
Dropping orders is worse than it was in prior games; units can’t disengage well. Of course it’s worse given they also can’t avoid each other at all in cramped corridors.
Dropping orders is worse than it was in prior games; units can’t disengage well. Of course it’s worse given they also can’t avoid each other at all in cramped corridors.
not only dropping orders, but the reduced responsiveness (i.e. the delay time it takes for a unit to start moving) makes it very bad to play vs all the new and very balanced wind and aoe spells, especially on small maps and in domination mode where your attention is split between the 3 lanes.
Comments
this is a very important point in most of the new maps thats gonna come out in wh 3 are gonna be land battle maps which means the map pool for land battles will be huge compared to all other fun modes like dominations which also plays a big role in longevity
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree AgreeI mean, they were absolutely fantastic. Go watch them.
Best of all was some new players I hadn't seen before making it to the finals. Yes there were some members of RTK playing, but there were, despite forum claims, new tactics, strategic decision making and CLIMATIC BATTLES, easily on par with what any matches from w1 or w2 tournaments.
A really good time. Highly recommend.
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4 · 10Disagree 4AgreeDoesn't change that the many of the maps really restricted the tactics, and that this will become more and more evident when every fight occurs on the same patch of restricted ground every time in every tourney.
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3 · 3Disagree 3AgreeYou only really don't see any ware near the build and play style variety of basic land battle tournaments.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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2 · 3Disagree 2Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeKill the lord or hero they can just come back.
It just doesn't matter any of those any more from watching and playing stand point.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agree- Report
2 · 6Disagree 2Agree- Report
0 · 2Disagree AgreeIt becomes more about picking the best counter for opponent over and over again.
I would certainly assume there will be more variety with more maps and more factions, but underlying issues won't go away. The negative impact of domination as a type of battle will still be present, they will just have a bit less of an effect.
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3 · 2Disagree 3Agree- Report
0 · 2Disagree Agree- Report
3 · 6Disagree 3Agree- Report
5 · Disagree 5Agree- Report
0 · 2Disagree AgreeThose linked games showed tactics well outside your "engage within 3 mins", "fight on the point", "trickle reinforcements on a grind" and "only pick one unit at a time" mentality. There were games with Slannesh, Cathay and Kislev, all holding their own despite being held on these forums as "weaker" factions. There were dynamic battles at the spawn locations, pincers, cannons, yin and yang being used and no use of pendulum.
More maps would be great. Especially since this is the ladder game mode. A functioning ladder ELO would also help immensely for finding equal skilled opponents. Going back to land battles and faction roulette is not. Go sign up for some tournaments. I don't want to read a 10 page pdf to know which units, spells or factions I need to actually play the game. Or get cheesed into oblivion.
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4 · 3Disagree 4AgreeAnd you do realize pendulem was banned for this event yeah?
You’re being really blinded by you support for the mode.
Your last point is very silly also since the “10” pages of rules would be avoided with CP in land battle BUT even further more NO ONE is saying remove DOM just have land battles alongside it so that whole paragraph is moot.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeAs far as which is more popular I don’t know but just going off of lobbies land battles seem more popular.
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2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeAfter while its boring.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeAtillery is not pointless. Been having some fun with the Cathey rockets and cannons. I was unaware that you could despawn them and bring them back with full ammo.
The issue is more that their is very little incentive to take any risk. Why bother bringing a 1300 gold rocket battery when your opponent can bring a 500gold counter. Even if he has initially failed to prepare for a specific threat.
Due to the relatively small starting funds, most battles seem to start in a very similar way. With a constant stream of mid and low tier units taking far to long to die at one of the capture points.
The blobs of opposing forces seem to forget orders in a short time period. Particularly singe ents.
While I understand of course that people will have different opinions. Mine is that domination game mode is an attempt to make MP more accessible to new players, by greatly reducing the number of units requiring micro and tactics.
The obvious thing to do would just be reinstate land battle with a capture point activating in the last 5 minutes or so. Then see which game mode is more popular.
I understand that splitting the MP community is a bad idea, as beta patches often prove. But I'm not sure it's a minority that want land battles back as a ranked option. Certainly in a few more weeks when the novelty of domination wheres off.
I won't bother mentioning race balance issues at this time.
Gitz get Krumped
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8 · 1Disagree 8AgreeIn short, regardless of what one thinks about the immersion, there's the potential for plenty of strategy and tactics.
But these maps don't have very good terrain, they mostly just have corridors. And in a corridor fight over a cap point the incentive to just clog up the lanes and push for capture power is a lot stronger. In a better implemented version of something like this, you'd have interesting terrain like rivers, hills, and forests, that allow armies to take positional advantage relative to caps and influence the manner in which large scale engagements occur, the results of which decide the game more-so than the grind for points dynamic.
This is present to a degree on some maps and in some games, but as released -- and combined with terrible buggy units and terrible balancing -- it's really hard to tell if the game mode is driving things so much as other factors.
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeTo clarify, I'm not saying that noble on a chariot will be meta in domination. He might not be. It's just an example to illustrate the point. What is stopping me from bringing hardest possible counter every time? It seems that it will push matchups further to the extreme, emphasizing weaknesses and strengths.
I get what you're saying. It's not like there's no tactics. It is bound to get better with better maps and better balance and after bugs are sorted out. I don't disagree with that. It just seems to me it will still be less engaging mode after all.
I've shelved the game until old factions are reintroduced and bugs are ironed out, and I'm hoping I will find it at least somewhat fun to push me to play.
That being said, I don't have very high hopes. BUT, I do think that CA should reintroduce at least non ranked classic land battles queue. Keep domination as "official ranked mode", just give me option to play land battles back.
I do think that keeping domination mode would be bad for long term health of multiplayer, but that is just my impression. I may very well be wrong about that. But, liking it or not, I don't think anyone should be against at least a non ranked classic queue. If anyone is against that idea, then it is honestly nothing else but spite - I find domination fun and everyone must have fun in the same way I do or they should do something else.
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8 · 1Disagree 8Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeI also think two weeks of meta isn't enough to write off a new gamemode, and I believe this is where WII and WIII multiplayer suffers the most. We need the other factions to provide a better picture of multiplayer gameplay. With demons being unbreakable and all rosters intentionally limited for future dlc, of course multiplayer is going to suffer.
The buggy singleplayer campaign (supply line bug back again?), the focus will be on fixing that first (unfortunately), the broken lobbies, the primary focus of players to play singleplayer (not everyone knows all the units of even on faction day one, it can be daunting), lack of a chat feature. There is an extensive list.
There's a lot of room to grow, and step one is fixing the multiplayer ladder and ELO matchmaking. Then more factions.
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0 · 3Disagree AgreeLand battles also got repetitive and start to all look the same, as people tended to bring similar armies and use the same tactics in every game, especially if they get more competitive, because whatever works the best just works the best. The variety really just comes from having more factions available, and different match ups forcing players to do different things if they want to win. Fights are slow because they changed the default scale to ultra. Units just don't make as much relative contact as they did in WH2, so they take damage relatively slower, and that makes melee engagements in particular quite a bit longer, which is why you're seeing chaff survive so much longer.
The small starting funds are something that a lot of players are bringing up, and I agree that the game mode would probably benefit from larger starting armies, since it'd make more tactics viable. It'd be particularly helpful for Cathay, due to the harmony mechanic. It'll be easier to form and maintain/protect a formation that can activate harmony with more starting funds.
Units dropping orders in combat, especially in blobs, is nothing new. Whenever an entity is outside of melee range of its current target, or if its order is untargeted, then it will drop the order when it encounters a new enemy (If I'm not mistaken, there's a ~5s timer before a move order can be dropped after it is issued, unless it uses another animation like being attacked, knocked down, or staggered). Single entity animations often push their target out of melee range, especially if it's another single entity. Also, being staggered/knocked down can cause single entities to drop orders. Issues with reviving/resummoning could be largely resolved by just making the "cooldown" time to bring back units longer. If you have to wait 2 minutes + the time it takes for the unit to heal to bring it back, resummoning units would be a lot more limited.
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0 · 3Disagree AgreeAnd as for more funds, most of the current maps can’t handle a larger starting formation - Cathay’s or otherwise.
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3 · Disagree 3Agree- Report
5 · Disagree 5Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree