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Why has everything become so slow from CA?

ThorrkThorrk Registered Users Posts: 130
edited March 2022 in Total War General Chat
Hello guys,

Something that I feel has become quite consistently true, is that CA is taking is taking considerably more time to achieve anything and this has been true for a long time now. This observation is true for bug fixes, new DLC, new game, mod support...

GAME RELEASE

Just to put things in perspective:

Total War Warhammer 2 was released 1 year and 4 months after TWW 1.

Total War Warhammer 3 has been released 4 years and 5 months after TWW 2.

In other word TWW 3 took more than 3 times longer to make than TWW 2. You could argue that TWW 2 having more DLC has slow down TWW 3 development and COVID certainly didn't help either but does it really justify such a large time difference?

DLC RELEASE

Even on the DLC side of things the pace of DLC release has slow down considerably since game 1:

- 2016 2 new races and 2 Lord packs
- 2017: 1 new race and game 2 with pre order race
- 2018: 2 new races and 2 Lord packs
- 2019: 2 Lord packs
- 2020: 2 Lord packs
- 2021: 1 Lord pack

So yes lord pack are bigger that what they used to be, but they are nowhere near the amount of work of a new race DLC. Also we have confirmation that CA's team for TWW has grown significantly over the years so what can justify such a drastic drop of new content since 2018?

In 2017 CA was able to give new races and lord packs while working on a new game. By comparison the development of the 3rd game seems to have been done at the cost of less lord pack release, why is that so?

You could make the argument that Total War Warhammer 3 is more ambitious than TWW 2 but does that really justify more than 3 years of additional development time compared to game 2?

RECENT CONTENT RELEASE

And even after the release of the game we are noticing a significant delays in updates.

Mortal empire was released only one month after the release of game 2. We are almost one month after release for game 3 and IE is still not officially announced or even teased.

Workshop support was added only 7 days after release of Game 2 and yet 3 weeks after no sign of workshop addition for game 3.

I am witnessing a 5 year old trend and I am afraid it will continue, how long will we have to wait for Chaos Dwarfs ?

Such a slow down of release is frequent among games at the end of their life cycle or when the company is struggling. But we know it's quite the opposite for CA and the "end of life cycle" doesn't hold for a brand new game like TWW 3.
Post edited by dge1 on

Comments

  • Cyresdog#8125Cyresdog#8125 Registered Users Posts: 1,524
    From what I heard, given these are just rumors, but WH 1 and 2 were at one point the same game, it was mid development that they split factions like HE apart and made them the starting roster of the 2nd game.

  • General_Hijalti#1213General_Hijalti#1213 Registered Users Posts: 5,430
    Because after Warhammer 2. Some of the team were working on dlc, some were working on 3K, and Troy. Etc.

    We know that WH3 didn't actually leave pre production until midway through 2019.

    And then obviously covid slowed things down massively. And then the game needed ri be delayed because it wasn't ready for a 2021 release date.

    So it took under 3 years from them to go from pre production to release with covid.


    As for dlc. Compare grim and the grave, or King and the warlord to Silence and the Fury or Twisted and the Twilight. The later dlcs have far more content.
  • ThorrkThorrk Registered Users Posts: 130
    It's a shame
    Cyresdog said:

    From what I heard, given these are just rumors, but WH 1 and 2 were at one point the same game, it was mid development that they split factions like HE apart and made them the starting roster of the 2nd game.

    That would explain a lot.
  • nyobien#9819nyobien#9819 Registered Users Posts: 327
    2019 had three DLCs.

    They have always been slow at bug fixes. Weapon Strength was broken with the Grom DLC and they didn't fix it until two months later.

    I think DLCs will be much more frequent now as they race to add in missing content before dropping support

    Remove agents/heroes from the campaign map like Three Kingdoms did. They are not fun and only serve to make the game more tedious. Nobody finishes campaigns because of how tedious the late game becomes with things like this to manage every turn.

    Grudges:

    6 years old Lord of Change with unimpressive animations. CA hid the exalted one until launch and lied that it was like Kairos's: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/qak83o/so_turns_out_the_lord_of_change_in_the_trailer/.

    CA put the Champions of Chaos LLs in WoC instead of monogods to save money on unique campaign mechanics

  • Schub#9514Schub#9514 Registered Users Posts: 1,620
    edited March 2022
    I think ME was build up from Warhammer 1 (and was supposd to be the final combined map if you include the darklands). IE will be build up from the scratch I guess. But we know from Simone that they were able to play/test IE back in November 2021.

    EDIT:
    - 2018: 2 new races and 2 Lord packs

    Two lord packs? Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast and Queen & Crone. Prophet and Warlock was in 2019.
  • 1v0#35621v0#3562 Registered Users Posts: 2,348
    edited March 2022
    If I have to guess (and this is just a GUESS) - They are working on other games, while at the start they were working only on WH... But after that cash injection now they can work on more games (nothing worng with that)...

    Uhhhh this remind me of the old meme "CA has different teams"...
    Question:Presumably you’ve needed to create a huge number of new Daemon units to properly flesh them out and give them their own armies?
    Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
  • XxXScorpionXxX#2310XxXScorpionXxX#2310 Registered Users Posts: 6,143
    Covid(TM) Brexit(TM)

    seriously those will be the excuses until the heat death of the universe.
    Request scorched body textures, and fire death effects. At least 30% of all damage in this game comes from fire sources. Request Fire for the Fire God DLC.
  • dodge33cymru#1936dodge33cymru#1936 Registered Users Posts: 3,430
    One other point, but some of the assets for DLC will be worked on well before it sees the light of day and likely in parallel with the main game design. So it makes sense that the first year or two after release have a quicker release schedule, because a lot of the work for them is already done.

    CA have a plan for at least the first year or two's DLC, so there will be a lot of assets for Chaos Dwarves, lord packs and possibly other bits and pieces of DLC/FLC designed, modelled, voiced, statted, animated etc already as part of the TWW3 project - they won't just release the game and then start thinking about what's next.

    And before anyone shouts 'cut content', that content is developed based on a budget that exists by factoring in DLC sales.
  • Mad_D0c_#1516Mad_D0c_#1516 Registered Users Posts: 1,541
    edited March 2022
    Is patching more complicated because CA must adjust things for 3 launchers? Beside steam they released the game on epic and windows store.

    Post edited by Mad_D0c_#1516 on
  • #902441#902441 Registered Users Posts: 7,499
    They've gone from being a niche game studio to one of the UK's biggest off the back of Warhammer and 3K.
    As such expectations are higher from management and shareholders, the projects they have taken on are likely to be bigger, there will have been employee churn as others are brought in and others moved to different departments or replaced altogether.

    Covid would have likely had some impact but minimal due to the majority of their work able to be done remotely, likewise Brexit, as getting a work visa in the UK will be pretty simple for anyone in that industry, although it's possible some people may have left the UK/be less willing to work there as a protest against the vote.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • ConstantineZAyn#4211ConstantineZAyn#4211 Registered Users Posts: 1,081
    They're a small indie company.
    Daniel was a mistake.

    #JusticeForDaemonsOfChaos
  • Mr_Finley7#4571Mr_Finley7#4571 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,417
    Probably because they bite off more than they can chew in terms of simultaneous project development.
  • busbee247#5862busbee247#5862 Registered Users Posts: 1,323
    4 years between releases in a series isn't unusually long at all. Really wh2's release was remarkably quick and rushed not that 3 was slow.
  • DarthEnderX-#6513DarthEnderX-#6513 Registered Users Posts: 5,243
    Thorrk said:

    Why has everything become so slow from CA?

    They're all playing Elden Ring.
    "Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
  • PoorManatee6197#6481PoorManatee6197#6481 Registered Users Posts: 2,601
    During game 1 they were focused on warhammer, during game 2 they did britannia, 3 kingdoms, rome remastered and troy. Now they are working on a historical title, a shooter, another saga probably...


    "Oh but different teams blahblahblah", yeah sure, sure.
    #MakeDwarfsGreatAgain Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow, Alrik Ranulfsson, Grimm Burloksson, Kazador Thunderhorn, Byrrnoth Grundadrakk, Malakai Makaisson, Gotrek Gurnisson, Garagrim, Dragon slayer, Deamon slayer, Doomseekers, Brotherhood of Grimnir, Giant slayers, Thunderbarge, Shieldbearer mount, Master brewer, Goblin Hewer, Norse dwarf war mammoth, Tractator engine, Rune golem, Shard dragon, proper Anvil of Doom, Ulther's dragon company, Lond Drong's slayer pirates, Everguard, Karak Varn, Karag Agrilwutraz, Karaz Bryn, Karag Dum, Karak Vlag, Kraka Dorden, Kraka Ornsmotek, Kraka Ravnsvake, Karak Vrag, Karak Azorn, Karak Krakaten.


    All those missing things are grudges in the great book, is in your hand to settle them, CA. Khazukan kazakit-ha!

    IT'S HOBGOBBO TIME!!!!!!!
    #JusticeForKurgan
  • kabulk#6557kabulk#6557 Registered Users Posts: 1,228
    CA lead programmer working from home


  • Tennisgolfboll#5877Tennisgolfboll#5877 Registered Users Posts: 13,481
    The fact it has become slow (which it has) doesnt bother me much at all.

    That the quality has dropped however bothers me alot. Well....kinda...atleast compared to timeframe.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,787
    Moved to Chat as is more of a business discussion.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

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