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Thoughts on my (Tzeentchian) army composition

JellyphasJellyphas Registered Users Posts: 96
edited March 2022 in General Discussion
For campaign. Not multiplayer.

Kairos Fateweaver
Iridescent Horror (Tzeentch)
Cultist of Tzeentch (Fire)
6 Exalted Pink Horrors
6 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch
3 Doom Knights
2 Soulgrinders of Tzeentch

Thoughts? You think I should replace a unit or two with something else?

Comments

  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,776
    edited March 2022
    TBH I don't know as you want that many chaos knights *and* doom knights, unless you plan to micro the hell out of everything all the time forever. Consider some Forsaken to stand in the way of things instead. Doom Knights are real good, but Chaos Knights are a bit redundant when you have them.
  • JellyphasJellyphas Registered Users Posts: 96

    TBH I don't know as you want that many chaos knights *and* doom knights, unless you plan to micro the hell out of everything all the time forever. Consider some Forsaken to stand in the way of things instead. Doom Knights are real good, but Chaos Knights are a bit redundant when you have them.

    I specifically chose Chaos Knights because of their tankiness and speed. They seem to be a good frontline whilst my missiles and magic wear down the enemy.

    For Doom Knights, I'm pretty good at micro-ing them, and due to Tzeentch being pretty micro-heavy, I've had a lot of practice. They deal great damage to enemy units when I use them.
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Registered Users Posts: 5,957
    edited March 2022
    Eh. It's entirely dependent upon your style, difficultly, etc.

    It's incredibly hard to 'rate' Campaign stacks because almost anything can be made to work, it's just a matter of preference a lot of the time.

    That being said:

    I personally don't see the point in triple casters. Kairos is pretty good at Magic Regen by himself. He should be doing most of your casting. The other guys have some 'battery power', but enough to justify a slot is debatable. Certainly not enough to justify TWO slots. One will suffice if you're determined to keep a hero.

    I also concur with the other poster that that's too much cavalry. Both of those units are decent at what they do, but you only need so much backline harassment before you start encountering diminishing returns. Neither Chaos Knights nor Doom Knights are THAT good in sustained combat. They're just 'okay'. They're moderately tanky and mobile, but not great with damag. Damage really should be coming from range and Kairos. So I'd cut that amount of mobility in half and add more ranged units of choice.

    Don't get me wrong, your stack as is, will work. But if we're talking about areas for improvement, it has too many redundant units and low DPS.
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,501
    I'd probably replace two Knights by two Burning Chariots. Disable fire at will with them and focus single entities, they will literally melt.
  • drclaw_twdrclaw_tw Registered Users Posts: 289
    I haven't played much Tzeentch but 9 units of Cavalry seems like a pain in the ass to micro. Why so much? I would frop some Chaos Knights for some regular Pink Horrors, maybe a burning chariot or an an exalted flamer. Unless you simply want a heavy cav-focused army, but Tzeentch ranged units are good. Keep the Doom Knights, they are better than Chaos Knights.
  • HarveyJames#1968HarveyJames#1968 Registered Users Posts: 382
    i quite like normal flamers myself
    CA please give us Shogun Multi layer wall Sieges back along with Roles/Fog of war we want EPIC sieges!! 'personally i think the 3 kingdoms style of building armies is the best for balance alongside stronger unit roles and larger unit sizes' also allowing Chars too specialise in range/siege in particular in skills/traits..
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,501

    i quite like normal flamers myself

    Regular flamers are really good with some horrors holding the line, the horrors are small enough so that you don't have any line of sight issues with the flamers. They are quite fragile and vulnerable to ranged units however.
  • IZZESparklingIZZESparkling Registered Users Posts: 7
    Valkaar said:

    Eh. It's entirely dependent upon your style, difficultly, etc.

    It's incredibly hard to 'rate' Campaign stacks because almost anything can be made to work, it's just a matter of preference a lot of the time.

    That being said:

    I personally don't see the point in triple casters. Kairos is pretty good at Magic Regen by himself. He should be doing most of your casting. The other guys have some 'battery power', but enough to justify a slot is debatable. Certainly not enough to justify TWO slots. One will suffice if you're determined to keep a hero.

    I also concur with the other poster that that's too much cavalry. Both of those units are decent at what they do, but you only need so much backline harassment before you start encountering diminishing returns. Neither Chaos Knights nor Doom Knights are THAT good in sustained combat. They're just 'okay'. They're moderately tanky and mobile, but not great with damag. Damage really should be coming from range and Kairos. So I'd cut that amount of mobility in half and add more ranged units of choice.

    Don't get me wrong, your stack as is, will work. But if we're talking about areas for improvement, it has too many redundant units and low DPS.

    Faster regen translates to faster spells and Kairos benefits from having multiple spell casters with Mastery of Elemental Winds where intensity can be stacked up to 200%. So, Kairos kind of do have reason to stack casters that will not see action.
  • Asamu#6386Asamu#6386 Registered Users Posts: 1,620
    edited March 2022
    You'd probably get more mileage out of less knights and more horrors/some lords of change (for the spell intensity). It'll be easier to micro and more effective in sieges/minor settlement battles, where the knights won't be as strong, especially vs cathay.
  • MiniaAr#5798MiniaAr#5798 Registered Users Posts: 1,798
    It's a lot of cavalry but it could work. I like that you're focusing on only 2 red lines buffs (except the soul grinders). I like my armies focussed as well.

    I think getting two heroes, with the horror with Locus of Conjuration, is the right way to go. Kairos can become a formidable caster (as he should be) and getting some additional support on the magic department, for example with Metal spells that he doesn't really have access to, could be great.
    There is also something to be said to the double cast of Infernal Gateway (one from Kairos, the other from the Irridescent Horror you get on turn 2) to melt ennemy infantry from early on.

    Personnally, I'd like my Kairos army to be deamons only and use a Herald Army that would combine knights, spawns and forsaken.
    So for Kairos, something like:
    Kairos
    Irridescent Horror (Metal)
    Irridescent Horror (Tzeentch)
    Cultist (Fire)
    -> All characters give mastery of the elemental winds, which is good for a magic focus army

    6 Exalted Pink Horrors
    4 Flamers (I like those buggers)
    1 Burning Chariot of Tzeentch (the one you start with)
    3 Screamers (for air superiority and help the 3 magic caballeros)
    2 Lord of Change that will act as your "frontline", e.g. locking ennemy blob in place and unleashing the magic). The early Soul grinder can play this role in the beginning but I like the LoC who will give mastery of elemental winds as well.

    Then for the secondary army with a more balanced focus:
    Herald of Tzeentch/ Exalted LoC (Tzeentch)
    Irridescent Horror (Metal)
    Cultist (Fire)

    6 Forsaken (frontline)
    3 Spawns of Tzeentch
    2 Kights of Tzeentch
    2 Doom Knighs of Tzeentch
    2 Soul Grinders of Tzeentch
    2 Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (so that the army isn't only melee).

    This way you get two very distinct army still with the limited Tzeentch roster.
  • BloatedCorpse1234#9240BloatedCorpse1234#9240 Registered Users Posts: 240
    I prefer doom knights over Chaos knights.

    For general crapstacks I often do well with just a mix of different types of horrors.

    Kairos does not need an army at this point.

    I would prob. separate horrors as their own stacks and do "fast" doomstack with doom knights and soul grinders.
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,776
    Jellyphas said:

    TBH I don't know as you want that many chaos knights *and* doom knights, unless you plan to micro the hell out of everything all the time forever. Consider some Forsaken to stand in the way of things instead. Doom Knights are real good, but Chaos Knights are a bit redundant when you have them.

    I specifically chose Chaos Knights because of their tankiness and speed. They seem to be a good frontline whilst my missiles and magic wear down the enemy.

    For Doom Knights, I'm pretty good at micro-ing them, and due to Tzeentch being pretty micro-heavy, I've had a lot of practice. They deal great damage to enemy units when I use them.
    Cavalry doesn't usually do well in that frontline role because despite appearing to have tanky stats they're low entity count so they get individually overwhelmed. Especially since a lot of other frontlines you'll face have anti-large. That's why Forsaken are a reasonable shout. They're still quite tanky, still quite hitty, and harder to swamp with numbers.
  • mookt22#9885mookt22#9885 Registered Users Posts: 4
    Hoping to revive this thread for the new units in the roster I'm liking the following composition so far but not near the end of my campaign yet...
    Villitch
    Metal caster on steed or disc
    2 doom knights
    4 spawn
    2 chosen halberds
    4 chosen warriors
    4 exalted pink horrors
    2 soul grinders/ allied skaven artillery

    Any ideas on a better composition?
  • Jo_Proulx#5293Jo_Proulx#5293 Registered Users Posts: 1,838
    4 exalted flammers is devastating, strongly recommend. If you do, make sure you dont shoot too close to the targets as they dont do as much damage as when they have room between their target.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • Whitewolf7762#6480Whitewolf7762#6480 Registered Users Posts: 201
    I would highly recommend having two or three exalted big birds. From what I remember they’re given 2 casts of that gate spell. You can literally fly over to the enemy with all the flying units cast like 6-10 gates and tuck your army in a corner. After you wear them down move in your normal army. Although if your trying to be a range army build that isn’t as powerful(I get it) then this isn’t the build.
  • SerPus#7395SerPus#7395 Registered Users Posts: 10,567

    Any ideas on a better composition?

    As a lategame Vilitch army I would probably swap Chaos Spawns for Aspiring Champions, get more Chosen with halberds and put caster hero on a warshrine for additional buffs.
  • Otters007#7127Otters007#7127 Registered Users Posts: 1,631
    My late-game Tzeentch army is:

    Lord
    Cultist
    5x Chosen with halberds
    4x Exalted pink horrors
    3x Exalted flamers
    2x Doom knights
    2x Chaos knights
    2x Lords of change

    I feel like this army can handle most army comps. Cav and flyers to harass missile units, enemy cav or other flyers. Exalted flamers and horrors to kill infantry, halberds to deal with any large targets once the enemy infantry have melted away.
  • D4nz0N1nj4Wr1t3r#6847D4nz0N1nj4Wr1t3r#6847 Registered Users Posts: 370
    I give it a C for being apparently micro intensive with the plethora of cavalry, but a definite A grade potential with micro.
    I can see the Chaos Knights as an intercept force, Doom Knights to harry enemy range, EPH as your damage dealers...but the Soul Grinders may be questionable since their range is not as potent as Nurgle or Khorne's variants, imo. Granted, there are few units that can fill its role of SEM.
  • kaiki_utokyo#9006kaiki_utokyo#9006 Registered Users Posts: 737
    Kairos
    Metal wizard hero
    Lord of Change × 18
  • Pede#6322Pede#6322 Registered Users Posts: 2,126

    Kairos
    Metal wizard hero
    Lord of Change × 18

    Necromancer x 1.

  • Ben1990#8909Ben1990#8909 Registered Users Posts: 3,185
    Jellyphas said:

    For campaign. Not multiplayer.

    Kairos Fateweaver
    Iridescent Horror (Tzeentch)
    Cultist of Tzeentch (Fire)
    6 Exalted Pink Horrors
    6 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch
    3 Doom Knights
    2 Soulgrinders of Tzeentch

    Thoughts? You think I should replace a unit or two with something else?

    Replace the Chaos Knights with Chosen and an additional unit of Doom Knights.

    This way you have a strong line to defend your Horrors and Soulgrinders while you use the Doom Knights to attack from the flanks and the enemy's war machines.
  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 7,320
    Recruit units you like to use, there is no formula, especially when you ask about one or two units, that makes no difference except to preference.
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
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