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So you just want unique mechanics. Can you elaborate?
Sure. Just compare them with other chaos races with got in TWW3. Each of them has unique mechanics that affect the whole race, except for DoC. DoC sole mechanic besically does four things: unlock minor monogod mechanics, unlock units, alter stats and ability kit for the Daemon Prince, and buff units. And those unit buffs come with DoC having no tech tree.
Other than general buffs and avalable units, it's completly centered on one character. With god-aligned races their mechanics affect the whole race.
They do have their unique Danny devotion mechanic, which I admit is partly just getting him cool equipment, and layering that with each god's mechanic makes sense to me.
I don't think his equipment is even that cool. They are just items with different stats and some bound spells/traits.
Are you happy if they still have access to mortals like Doom Knights? Also doesn't it make sense that an undivided DoC would be able to make use of each god's gifts?
Yeah, I'm personally fine with mortals. In fact, I would rather represent DoC by allowing them to use each other units once they win the Great Game.
Really sorry, works gone ballistic today which is really cutting down on forum time, that all sounds fair enough!
Guess my assumption was right, DoC mechanics are way too focused on Daniel so it would require too much work to have Be'Lakor in this race.
Which goes to show what bad of an idea he was to implement. In fact, it goes to show how everything about DoC was bastardized so as to make it all revolve around the Mary Sue. They are too lazy to make the Daemons of Chaos justice, so they just gave up on it altogether.
He play with mortal a lot, enough for a popular game without any deamon to make a DLC arount him.
When you are at disgrace, mortal are the ones you can manipulate at your ends because the other deamon are a lot tied to their divine boss.
He can use them but less easly than mortals, i can hear this lore explanation
I think Belakor with Mortal and Deamon are way more loreful than Belakor only deamons like a lot of..weird...people ask, as a DoC faction only
First of all, Vermintide is absolutely stupid for not adding DoC. That is a major issue with their implementation of Chaos Wastes.
Second of all, Be'lakor is NOT BOUND anymore. The fact you can play as him makes him a distinct LL not bound by his curse. As such, he doesn't need mortals to do his bidding.
Third of all, in 2 out of 3 of his appearance he SPECIFICALLY lead Daemons only forces. And in the one that he didn't, he was bound to Archaon. So unless you're have this bizarro idea that he should be Archaon's vassal, he shouldn't have WoC.
Fourth of all, literally EVERY character in Chaos can have both mortals and daemons under their command. The problem isn't the lore, it's the implementation as to what extent who has what. Be'lakor unbound would NOT have so many mortals.
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
Be'lakor only selling point, narrative and lore interessest is his disgrace. I can't espect anyone we are willingly throwing all this building aspect of the caracter in the trash being a real fan of the caracter.
What do you like with him, his story or "omagad is design is cool, he must being a badass" ? No, he is a tragic thing fate to failure.
You totaly see that in the story of the ROC showing CA way more able to handle this lore than most of "fans" here (And a slave in the end)
Be'lakor in good terms with the 4, able to summon all servants he like (even greater deamons) with no limit is just a another frekkin Daniel. We don't need that it's inintersting
Be'lakor leading an only Deamon of Chaos faction is unloreful for me.
Be'lakor who use ruse, scheming, and a lot of use of mortal for compensate is lack of position in the demonic panteon, is way more him
(Even Archaon's vassal is a better fit to his caracter)
Be'lakor could not have his shadow curse anymore but i can bet you he still want to overthrow the 4 and need all the power possible. Him "mortal free" is not a good choice.
Be'lakor only selling point, narrative and lore interessest is his disgrace. I can't espect anyone we are willingly throwing all this building aspect of the caracter in the trash being a real fan of the caracter.
What do you like with him, his story or "omagad is design is cool, he must being a badass" ? No, he is a tragic thing fate to failure.
You totaly see that in the story of the ROC showing CA way more able to handle this lore than most of "fans" here (And a slave in the end)
Be'lakor in good terms with the 4, able to summon all servants he like (even greater deamons) with no limit is just a another frekkin Daniel. We don't need that it's inintersting
Be'lakor leading an only Deamon of Chaos faction is unloreful for me.
Be'lakor who use ruse, scheming, and a lot of use of mortal for compensate is lack of position in the demonic panteon, is way more him
(Even Archaon's vassal is a better fit to his caracter)
Be'lakor could not have his shadow curse anymore but i can bet you he still want to overthrow the 4 and need all the power possible. Him "mortal free" is not a good choice.
If you really think that's the case, then you should be against him being playable at all! Fan indeed.
I wanted him to have a subjugation mechanic against Daemons. If he is all about rebelling against the Chaos gods, he shouldn't be so easily bound to them. And definitely not as a second fiddle to Archaon, in his own god damn campaign.
No they don't. They literally ransacked his lore by making the Mary Sue, who is literally doing everything that Be'lakor was doing. Except that, in the case of the Mary Sue, the Chaos Gods literally allowed him to become a god in his ending. They made a mockery of Be'lakor's core lore, by making a character who does literally the same thing, but has a positive outcome. It's so ridiculous that you think yourself a fan of him, then, if you don't see the hypocrisy in Mary Sue's design.
Except that what I intended was something entirely different. And yes, Mary Sue is utter garbage and uninteresting. He shouldn't have existed at all.
Except that that's **** by design. He controlled only Daemons in his armies when there wasn't a Daemons of Chaos army at all. That's his design.
Of course it is, because he can't have his own proper campaign of rebelling against the gods, so he has to be a downgraded WoC LL who has to do what Archaon is doing.
Yes it is. It is literally the BEST choice. But you are literally arguing that you would sooner have him as Archaon's lapdog instead of rebelling.
Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
I'm waiting to see how his current state will be. But him as a pnj caracter and antagonist was fitting him. But for you "fan" means "being dumb" maybe
And thinking Daniel is a good transcription of Be'lakor and he could have take his place as a Demon Prince favored by the 4 show you understand nothing of the character.
Be'lakor is totaly your Mary Sue in your brain and you would have him butchered in this direction if you had any command in the matter, ignoring all his point as a character destroyed by his own ego everytime.
The fact every of his adaptations contradict your point should open your eye a little, but you are too focused in your ideas for reading a bit of lore..
Your talking about a conquering Be'lakor in his primal glory in old age. It's a oirigin story, it have no frikkin point on the current setting, and this past is just there to build motive and drama for the character.
ROC is all him being rebellious, getting reckt, and lapdog again. It's his real curse, trying to avoid his condition, plotting and scheming, fail, back to 0, never accept it, trying again.
I can bet you the Be'lakor you will play in IE just gain enought power to do stuff, gather mortal and deamon and try to be rebel against the god and the world again. With plenty of mortal, with a SPECIFIC mechanic where he manipulate frikkin humans mortal !!! And not a full demonic powerhouse of 4 god giving all he want. This time is over, it's his past, he can dream of it, but it's not him anymore.
Given how long they've been working on each of these factions behind the scenes, I doubt its remotely realistic to expect them to redo Belakor's faction before IE is released.
The real reason it's not possible to redo Bleakor is because they hired a famous voice actor to do his lines.... which was a waste of money.
It's too expensive to keep hiring the guy back to keep doing more voice work to fix their mess.
Voice acting his very important to iconize a character, it's the point to have a AAA game with money invested in immersive stuff like graphic, animations, and voices.
Thust me, few people want to hear what a game with cutted corner in voice acting look like. It screem as "low budget" as any graphic concession.
He was originally a lord for both chaos warriors and daemons of chaos, so nothing to make right.
I concede, he could have Mortals.
The missing DoC faction however, should be addressed.
I think the reality is ,daemons as it is in 8th doesn’t even make sense, they only really come together for great chaos incursions, and these mixed daemonic armies are rather silly. Khorne daemons generally won’t be fighting alongside slaanesh daemons. This whole divided thing of the chaos armies was nothing more than a crash grab back in 7th Ed.
You are still under the illusion that what comes out of the forges at Horsham are to be treated as words of the almighty Sigmar hisself i see, good on you.
Nah, I stopped trusting CA a long time ago. But fans being mad because they waited 7 years for something that was promised and not delivered is perfectly understandable. Imagine the reaction is the Empire or High Elves were dropped out. Oh, how bright would this place burn.
Yeah because having some of the main races in the setting being outright removed is perfectly comparable to a armybook having it´s content split up into pieces yet still being present...
/Sarcasm off
The armybook is not present if its content is split into pieces, and it isn't present true to its form if it's completely bloated with redundant units that don't fit into the race and ruin its playstyle.
So, you're basically just asking them to remove Be'lakor from multiplayer?
DoC cannot ever be in multiplayer because such a large roster pulling from 4 different races would destroy any shred of balance in the game. If not DoC, they have to put him somewhere, and WoC is the only viable option.
Functionally, Be'lakor has a DoC campaign but WoC multiplayer. I think most people would agree that is better than him not being in multiplayer at all. Not that Be'lakor having mortal servants was unloreful in the first place. There's nothing to complain about.
So Multiplayer is again ruining this game... great. Belakor should be in Deamons of Chaos
You are still under the illusion that what comes out of the forges at Horsham are to be treated as words of the almighty Sigmar hisself i see, good on you.
Nah, I stopped trusting CA a long time ago. But fans being mad because they waited 7 years for something that was promised and not delivered is perfectly understandable. Imagine the reaction is the Empire or High Elves were dropped out. Oh, how bright would this place burn.
Yeah because having some of the main races in the setting being outright removed is perfectly comparable to a armybook having it´s content split up into pieces yet still being present...
/Sarcasm off
The armybook is not present if its content is split into pieces, and it isn't present true to its form if it's completely bloated with redundant units that don't fit into the race and ruin its playstyle.
Wants a DoC race, complains about roster bloat. I find that a bit comical.
I can see a future where DoC gets enough chaos expansions that they outright remove the mortals, but as they stand it’s not exactly a bad compromise.
You are still under the illusion that what comes out of the forges at Horsham are to be treated as words of the almighty Sigmar hisself i see, good on you.
Nah, I stopped trusting CA a long time ago. But fans being mad because they waited 7 years for something that was promised and not delivered is perfectly understandable. Imagine the reaction is the Empire or High Elves were dropped out. Oh, how bright would this place burn.
Yeah because having some of the main races in the setting being outright removed is perfectly comparable to a armybook having it´s content split up into pieces yet still being present...
/Sarcasm off
The armybook is not present if its content is split into pieces, and it isn't present true to its form if it's completely bloated with redundant units that don't fit into the race and ruin its playstyle.
Wants a DoC race, complains about roster bloat. I find that a bit comical.
I can see a future where DoC gets enough chaos expansions that they outright remove the mortals, but as they stand it’s not exactly a bad compromise.
The race isn't in the game for as long as its roster is full of mortals. They're daemons of chaos, not chaos undivided. What we have is just a mechanically lobotomized version built around the daemon prince gimmick, with a roster that is bloated with redundant, ugly WoC asset flips.
I wouldn't write this stuff if we had a dedicated, pure daemon race with proper mechanics. This does not exist in the game.
Comments
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeGuess my assumption was right, DoC mechanics are way too focused on Daniel so it would require too much work to have Be'Lakor in this race.
- Report
3 · 1Disagree 3AgreeHe play with mortal a lot, enough for a popular game without any deamon to make a DLC arount him.
When you are at disgrace, mortal are the ones you can manipulate at your ends because the other deamon are a lot tied to their divine boss.
He can use them but less easly than mortals, i can hear this lore explanation
I think Belakor with Mortal and Deamon are way more loreful than Belakor only deamons like a lot of..weird...people ask, as a DoC faction only
- Report
0 · 1Disagree AgreeSecond of all, Be'lakor is NOT BOUND anymore. The fact you can play as him makes him a distinct LL not bound by his curse. As such, he doesn't need mortals to do his bidding.
Third of all, in 2 out of 3 of his appearance he SPECIFICALLY lead Daemons only forces. And in the one that he didn't, he was bound to Archaon. So unless you're have this bizarro idea that he should be Archaon's vassal, he shouldn't have WoC.
Fourth of all, literally EVERY character in Chaos can have both mortals and daemons under their command. The problem isn't the lore, it's the implementation as to what extent who has what. Be'lakor unbound would NOT have so many mortals.
- Report
1 · 3Disagree 1AgreeWhat do you like with him, his story or "omagad is design is cool, he must being a badass" ? No, he is a tragic thing fate to failure.
You totaly see that in the story of the ROC showing CA way more able to handle this lore than most of "fans" here (And a slave in the end)
Be'lakor in good terms with the 4, able to summon all servants he like (even greater deamons) with no limit is just a another frekkin Daniel. We don't need that it's inintersting
Be'lakor leading an only Deamon of Chaos faction is unloreful for me.
Be'lakor who use ruse, scheming, and a lot of use of mortal for compensate is lack of position in the demonic panteon, is way more him
(Even Archaon's vassal is a better fit to his caracter)
Be'lakor could not have his shadow curse anymore but i can bet you he still want to overthrow the 4 and need all the power possible. Him "mortal free" is not a good choice.
- Report
0 · 2Disagree AgreeI wanted him to have a subjugation mechanic against Daemons. If he is all about rebelling against the Chaos gods, he shouldn't be so easily bound to them. And definitely not as a second fiddle to Archaon, in his own god damn campaign.
No they don't. They literally ransacked his lore by making the Mary Sue, who is literally doing everything that Be'lakor was doing. Except that, in the case of the Mary Sue, the Chaos Gods literally allowed him to become a god in his ending. They made a mockery of Be'lakor's core lore, by making a character who does literally the same thing, but has a positive outcome. It's so ridiculous that you think yourself a fan of him, then, if you don't see the hypocrisy in Mary Sue's design.
Except that what I intended was something entirely different. And yes, Mary Sue is utter garbage and uninteresting. He shouldn't have existed at all.
Except that that's **** by design. He controlled only Daemons in his armies when there wasn't a Daemons of Chaos army at all. That's his design.
Of course it is, because he can't have his own proper campaign of rebelling against the gods, so he has to be a downgraded WoC LL who has to do what Archaon is doing.
Yes it is. It is literally the BEST choice. But you are literally arguing that you would sooner have him as Archaon's lapdog instead of rebelling.
- Report
0 · 2Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeAnd thinking Daniel is a good transcription of Be'lakor and he could have take his place as a Demon Prince favored by the 4 show you understand nothing of the character.
Be'lakor is totaly your Mary Sue in your brain and you would have him butchered in this direction if you had any command in the matter, ignoring all his point as a character destroyed by his own ego everytime.
The fact every of his adaptations contradict your point should open your eye a little, but you are too focused in your ideas for reading a bit of lore..
Your talking about a conquering Be'lakor in his primal glory in old age. It's a oirigin story, it have no frikkin point on the current setting, and this past is just there to build motive and drama for the character.
ROC is all him being rebellious, getting reckt, and lapdog again. It's his real curse, trying to avoid his condition, plotting and scheming, fail, back to 0, never accept it, trying again.
I can bet you the Be'lakor you will play in IE just gain enought power to do stuff, gather mortal and deamon and try to be rebel against the god and the world again. With plenty of mortal, with a SPECIFIC mechanic where he manipulate frikkin humans mortal !!! And not a full demonic powerhouse of 4 god giving all he want. This time is over, it's his past, he can dream of it, but it's not him anymore.
He you want Deamon Mary Sue play Daniel lol
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeIt's too expensive to keep hiring the guy back to keep doing more voice work to fix their mess.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeThe missing DoC faction however, should be addressed.
- Report
0 · 3Disagree AgreeThust me, few people want to hear what a game with cutted corner in voice acting look like. It screem as "low budget" as any graphic concession.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree#JusticeForDaemonsOfChaos
- Report
2 · 4Disagree 2AgreeWow, how sad! Poor CA needing to make a proper Daemons of Chaos race. Absolutely pathetic.
"arbitrary categories"
The races are arbitrary now? Why don't we put vampire counts and dwarfs together as well?
#JusticeForDaemonsOfChaos
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3 · 2Disagree 3Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI can see a future where DoC gets enough chaos expansions that they outright remove the mortals, but as they stand it’s not exactly a bad compromise.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI wouldn't write this stuff if we had a dedicated, pure daemon race with proper mechanics. This does not exist in the game.
#JusticeForDaemonsOfChaos
- Report
1 · 2Disagree 1Agree- Report
2 · 3Disagree 2Agree