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Don’t worry they also created a game mode where the faction is at its worst and have so far done no rebalancing if it’s units at all alongside buffing other factions significantly.
Don’t worry they also created a game mode where the faction is at its worst and have so far done no rebalancing if it’s units at all alongside buffing other factions significantly.
well if you want dwarf buffs just wait till they get the cathay treatment haha. factions that suck in dom will get buffed patch after patch to godlike abusive levels in landbattles... and they still arent good in domination.
Strange, its almost as if total war is designed for 2+ armies killing each other and not for capturing points and counting numbers in your head.
Don’t worry they also created a game mode where the faction is at its worst and have so far done no rebalancing if it’s units at all alongside buffing other factions significantly.
well if you want dwarf buffs just wait till they get the cathay treatment haha. factions that suck in dom will get buffed patch after patch to godlike abusive levels in landbattles... and they still arent good in domination.
Strange, its almost as if total war is designed for 2+ armies killing each other and not for capturing points and counting numbers in your head.
Nah with so many factions in the game I don’t expect the wh3 treatment ever.
Nor do I want it; being competitive in land battles vs the power creep would be fine.
But it is a puzzle how long it will take them to figure out the flaws in their game mode if they ever will. All pretty predictable when they stuck reinforcement spots in. Caps ultimately only work as a template for forcing a good battle not as the focus of the battle themselves.
Don’t worry they also created a game mode where the faction is at its worst and have so far done no rebalancing if it’s units at all alongside buffing other factions significantly.
well if you want dwarf buffs just wait till they get the cathay treatment haha. factions that suck in dom will get buffed patch after patch to godlike abusive levels in landbattles... and they still arent good in domination.
Strange, its almost as if total war is designed for 2+ armies killing each other and not for capturing points and counting numbers in your head.
Nah with so many factions in the game I don’t expect the wh3 treatment ever.
Nor do I want it; being competitive in land battles vs the power creep would be fine.
But it is a puzzle how long it will take them to figure out the flaws in their game mode if they ever will. All pretty predictable when they stuck reinforcement spots in. Caps ultimately only work as a template for forcing a good battle not as the focus of the battle themselves.
One of the few things I'm looking forward to is Wood Elves being a niche pick once again. I'm sort of expecting them to fall quite a bit in the rankings.
I've just done a test with a Pick any unit as a lord and an addon tables where I removed splash animations and reduced splash targets from 2 to 1.
- Hammerers vs basic Chaos Warriors - Spaghetti line Hammers against the border of deployment and attack - Measure start time on first impact - Pause as soon as CW break gather the ending stats - 5 runs
Average results:
Vanilla stats: - Kill time 1:29 (89 seconds) - Surviving Chaos Warriors 28,4 with 1618,2 HP - Surviving Hammerers 85,6 with 6343,8 HP
Modded stats: - Kill time 1:08 (68 seconds) - Surviving Chaos Warriors 29,8 with 1871,4 HP - Surviving Hammerers 89,8 with 6829 HP
Basically the splash increases the time it takes to defeat a unit of CWGW by a whooping 30% which makes both of them take higher casualties. In a real game scenario the difference in perfomance should not be as stark as there are many more contributing factors but it is there judging by the
Poor lads also got hit with a +100g nerf for getting worse at their job.
Pretty sure many of us would lose our jobs if we did such an umgak mistake and let it deliberately fester.. not to mention the Killaz example.
Rangers and blasting charges, thanks to vanguard, should make dawii at least a little redeemable on domination no?
rangers should be terrible since they're a vulnerable ranged units in this game mode.
And here we reap what they sow again, aka the heavy nerf of dwarf vanguard units in TW. Give them back their heavy armor and melee stats like in TT, then we talk. Especially now that Kislev youngling humans claiming they are the masters of the hybrid infantry..
Given how devs like to segmentate their work, maybe they are waiting on Chaos Dwarfs to touch on Dwarfs? Otherwise it made no sense to nerf them while buffing everyone and their auntie. I'm tired of getting baffled again lol
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
55*2 is 110 not 160.
Anyways, if not reverting there might be a chance to play around with hidden stats like splash power to increase their effectiveness.
IMO just buffing their damn CB to 30+ like the Savage Bigguns would be a good way forward.
Splash power just gives more powerful knockback... It doesn't effect damage. I don't know why there is a buff for it in the tables... it's pretty weird and hardly useful. Helping enemy units rotate into combat is counter productive.
Splash power just gives more powerful knockback... It doesn't effect damage. I don't know why there is a buff for it in the tables... it's pretty weird and hardly useful. Helping enemy units rotate into combat is counter productive.
unless you dial the splash power up so much that the units take fall damage hehe, now thats fun.
Splash power just gives more powerful knockback... It doesn't effect damage. I don't know why there is a buff for it in the tables... it's pretty weird and hardly useful. Helping enemy units rotate into combat is counter productive.
unless you dial the splash power up so much that the units take fall damage hehe, now thats fun.
Just saying i think every Minitour , rat orger and mutant rat orger just winced at your comment.
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
IMO just buffing their damn CB to 30+ like the Savage Bigguns would be a good way forward.
How is it still not 30+ though? With racial, they hit with 7 str in TT on charge. Apart from Blorcs, which infantry hit that hard anyway? Yes here, skinny wutelgi ladies with small swords have more impact on charge lol. Not to mention that it's also relatively harder to land a charge with that speed.
Dwarfs having low charge across the board instead of the other way around is just another tell of their umgak design.
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
55*2 is 110 not 160.
Orc Boys are 81 HP per model. So why don't you spend less time correcting others and more time doing research.
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
55*2 is 110 not 160.
Orc Boys are 81 HP per model. So why don't you spend less time correcting others and more time doing research.
Long ago, Dwarven hammerers were a very solid 1100 point armour piercing brawler of a unit. Class acts all around, even in a meta that could be a little hard on slow elite infantry. They packed a punch.
Then came the dark times. CA - influenced no doubt by Tzeentch - thought that splash damage was a buff (it is a big nerf), gave hammerers splash attacks, +4 MD, and a 100 point cost increase.
Now the unit is useless. But it was a really important unit on the roster, one of the few dwarf melee infantry that packs a punch and quick.
We need you to revert the MD and splash attack changes and lower the cost back to 1100. Let the hammers ring in the hills once more! You can do it CA!
Well that OR... Bump up hammerer's damage to 160ish a model so they can kill 2 infantry models with every hit.
Maybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
55*2 is 110 not 160.
Orc Boys are 81 HP per model. So why don't you spend less time correcting others and more time doing research.
While I see what you are suggesting as a buff here it is worth noting that killing even a single infantry unit per hit is unusual for infantry. Chosen GW are on 82 with CB so when armor is in the mix they aren't killing an Orc Boy in a single attack ever. 160 would be massive overkill since the theory behind adding splash damage was that it would result in reduced wasted damage and therefore be a buff. This seems to have been based solely on the Krimson Killarz being strong while having splash attacks, with the designers assuming that this indicated the effect was a buff. In realty it seems that Black Orcs just really benefit from having halfway decent MA/MD so the chevron buffs outweighed the splash damage nerf.
Given that the Krimson Killarz no longer have splash attacks in the IE patch (they now have a BvI to match their dual axes) it seems likely that CA has realized the error of adding splash attacks to infantry and have reverted such changes. Nothing to do but wait till the patch notes though.
Given that the Krimson Killarz no longer have splash attacks in the IE patch (they now have a BvI to match their dual axes) it seems likely that CA has realized the error of adding splash attacks to infantry and have reverted such changes. Nothing to do but wait till the patch notes though.
Specifically, Krimson Killers had Double Splash for double double the blood bath back when animations ruled the day. CA decided that wasn't how they wanted to balance the game since it was confusing (which it was). After correcting this interaction Krimson Killers were noted to have poor attack rate (not convinced this is mitigated by animations) and were actually worse than rank 9 Black Orcs also partly due to rank 9 exhaustion mitigation does not benefit RoR.
Glad to hear CA took note of them and buffed them back into some prominence. They were kings of infantry 1v1s back in their time.
Back on topic: Maybe we can get the hammers back to no splash, plus keep the additional MD, plus original cost. I think with all this buffing going around Hammerers are ripe and ready for the buff mallet.
Hammerers do need to be buffed but I'm afraid it ain't gonna help dawi either in campaign or mp. They are going to be awful in both. They have a host of units that need changes including a gyro and arti buff AND they need new units desperately like the roller. Otherwise they are toast in just about everything. Most of their units belong in WH1 before powercreep. And add the no mobility and mass issue.... This goes beyond mp. They are going to struggle in campaign. Obviously not the ai necessarily, CA can tweak that to their liking. But playing them is going to be even more of an exercise in frustration than it currently is.
The example of rune buffs is actually exactly why you need viable hammerers in the roster.
Boosting melee attack isn’t nearly as effective on a longbeard gw. They are a good unit in isolation but it’s the hammerers weapon damage that is a whole other class of unit.
Comments
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4 · Disagree 4AgreeStrange, its almost as if total war is designed for 2+ armies killing each other and not for capturing points and counting numbers in your head.
- Report
7 · 1Disagree 7AgreeNor do I want it; being competitive in land battles vs the power creep would be fine.
But it is a puzzle how long it will take them to figure out the flaws in their game mode if they ever will. All pretty predictable when they stuck reinforcement spots in. Caps ultimately only work as a template for forcing a good battle not as the focus of the battle themselves.
- Report
4 · 1Disagree 4Agree- Report
0 · 4Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agreeminers should be good though.
- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeGiven how devs like to segmentate their work, maybe they are waiting on Chaos Dwarfs to touch on Dwarfs? Otherwise it made no sense to nerf them while buffing everyone and their auntie. I'm tired of getting baffled again lol
- Report
2 · Disagree 2AgreeMaybe if they can figure out how to make Aspiring Champions good as... psudeo Monstrous Infantry than they could do that with the hammerers.
I may or may not be writing satire at the moment.
- Report
3 · Disagree 3AgreeAnyways, if not reverting there might be a chance to play around with hidden stats like splash power to increase their effectiveness.
IMO just buffing their damn CB to 30+ like the Savage Bigguns would be a good way forward.
- Report
0 · 3Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agree#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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3 · Disagree 3AgreeDwarfs having low charge across the board instead of the other way around is just another tell of their umgak design.
- Report
4 · Disagree 4Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeGiven that the Krimson Killarz no longer have splash attacks in the IE patch (they now have a BvI to match their dual axes) it seems likely that CA has realized the error of adding splash attacks to infantry and have reverted such changes. Nothing to do but wait till the patch notes though.
- Report
4 · Disagree 4AgreeGlad to hear CA took note of them and buffed them back into some prominence. They were kings of infantry 1v1s back in their time.
Back on topic: Maybe we can get the hammers back to no splash, plus keep the additional MD, plus original cost. I think with all this buffing going around Hammerers are ripe and ready for the buff mallet.
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3 · Disagree 3Agree- Report
1 · 2Disagree 1Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · 2Disagree Agree- Report
4 · Disagree 4Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeBoosting melee attack isn’t nearly as effective on a longbeard gw. They are a good unit in isolation but it’s the hammerers weapon damage that is a whole other class of unit.
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2 · Disagree 2Agree- Report
5 · 1Disagree 5AgreeHit Points: 9200 → 10000
Removed: Splash Attacks
Weapon Imbuement: Magical Attacks
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5 · Disagree 5Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · Disagree 1Agree