Completionist DLC in the style of Champions of Chaos: Greenskins

TheWattman#7460

The Champions of Chaos DLC sets a new precedent for DLCs in WH3 going forward. Now you could never fit all of the content of Chaos into one pack, so stuff like Slaughterbrutes and Chimeras are to come later with future updates. But the new formula itself can already be used to speculate around how to finish the massive job of completing up the previous races of the trilogy. Instead of small steps through LPs vs other races, one big swing can be targeted at a single race in a bold step forward towards hopeful completion. This is what I wish to dedicate this thread to and the race in question for this first run will be the Greenskins.

Greenskins are rather to similar to Chaos in one important aspect: they are divided between a number of subraces within who are almost all still in need of further updates in order to achieve proper representation. Regular Orcs & Goblins, Black Orcs, Night Goblins, Savage Orcs and Forest Goblins. These all have varying levels of representation within the race right now and it looks like this in the generic and legendary leaders category:


There are a few noteable things here:
1. Forest Goblins do not yet have a LL representation
2. Savage Orcs and Forest Goblins do not have any generic representation whatsoever
3. Generic Orcs & Goblins + Night Goblins are missing two positions each while Black Orcs are missing the Warboss

Now how do we fix this situation? Here is an overview of my proposal:


Legendary Lords:
Given that Forest Goblins are the only subrace without LL representation right now, Snagla Grobspit would be the most needed of the remaining promiment Greenskin characters. From there, it really depends if we want to keep to the model of 4 LL per pack or if fewer can be an option. If 4 is the standard to uphold, then we really have a 4-way fight over 3 slots. Gorbad Ironclaw and Gitilla da Hunter have the advantage of being 8th edition characters, while Gorfang Rotgut and Morglum Necksnapper come from other directions (although Morglum is mentioned in 8th as well). So, we have 2 Orcs, a Black Orc and a Goblin, who to pick? Well Gitilla straight off offers a new battle-nieche of lords for the Greenskins, that of the Skirmish Ranged one. If we want diversity like CA prefers, then the 2nd spot would probably go to him. As for the rest, since Gorfang already is in the game and Grimgor has moved off into the East, a spot has opened up in the southern World's Edge Mountains that might as well be filled with someone that is already there. And between Gorbad and Morglum its anyone's game really. The Badlands have a free spot in the Blood River Valley (Barak Varr province) or if Wurrzag were to move down to the Central Jungles of the Southlands (loreful in fact), then Gorbad could also be placed in the Western Badlands. Morglum could be placed either in the Blood River Valley or somewhere in the Dark Lands.

Generic Leaders:
While a Completion DLC would be large, it has a finite number of resources still, so we still would probably need to make some sacrifices in order to get the widest range of content in. Therefore, I propose a compromise between regular Goblins and Forest Goblins and would say that we can combine the two into one deal. Lets get the Goblin Warboss (L) and the Goblin Shaman (H) and then make sure that all regular Goblin leaders get spider mounts. Hopefully that's an acceptable solution? Next we get the Night Goblin Great Shaman (L) and Night Goblin Big Boss (H), as well as the Black Orc Warboss (L), Orc Great Shaman (L) and Orc Big Boss (H) to complete those three subraces. Now as for the Savage Orcs, in an ideal world we'd get all 4 variants, but in the interest of saving resources, maybe only the Savage Orc Great Shaman (L) and Savage Big Boss (H) are really necessary to get the job done. All in all this would be 5 generic lords + 4 generic heroes compared with the 4 L + 4 H of Champions of Chaos. Maybe if we skip out on another LL we could increase the generic department, idk.

Units:
If we forego the possibilities of Forest Goblin infantry and just let them use regular Goblins, there isn't that much left for the Greenskins in the unit department. Nevertheless, here is my list:
Mangler Squigs
Colossal Squigs
Savage Orc Big Stabba
Giant Scorpion
Squigadon
New Mount - Hagranyms for Orc generic leaders
Hill Goblins (dual sword infantry)

This may seem sparse compared to the 36 new units of Champions of Chaos, but remember those were all more or less recolours and reskins. The only really new thing was the Warshrine. So I propose only this and even here we might cut some stuff in favour of more work on the generic leaders, which is where I think the main part of missing Greenskin stuff is located.

What do you think guys? Would this be enough to complete the Greenskins and would you be in favour of CA attempting to complete them in one large DLC or do you prefer smaller LPs?

Wyvax#7456

Don't necessarily agree with all of the choices in here, but I absolutely agree with the concept. Four LLs, maybe a fifth as FLC, all the missing lord and hero types and missing units included. Boom. Greenskins perfected forever.

destroyer67115

Gonna double down here and say this is a dream dlc for me!

I think something like this, and a perspective vampire one are my top 2 most anticipated dlc.

Labria#2848

I love idea to have Greenskins lord pack with 4 legendary lords and a few missing units. I wish to have Snagla Grobspit, Gitilla da Hunter, Gorfang Rotgut and Morglum Necksnapper(he should take role of long time dead Gorbad Ironclaw as orc cavarly leader) in single DLC.

I think it will be cool if CA will split Grenskins to 4 main groups in campaign with own unique bulding tree, lords, heroes and units. Something like this:

• Regular Goblins(+ Forest Goblins)
  
• Night Goblins
  
• Regular Orcs(+ Black Orcs)
  
• Savage Orcs
  

Each group can have own version of Warboss lord, Great Shaman lord, Big Boss hero and Shaman hero.

This can be similar to Chaos Gods system for Daniel's campaign:

NickCageStoleMyFace#5594

Lol at Squiggoth

TancredIIQuenelles#3970

I think they can easily add all weapon option variants or existing units as it is quite easier than making god aligned reskins. I quite agree that goblins and forest goblins merged is no tragedy. I think its also ok to merge ork and savage ork shamans to one type just give tatpos as upgrade in skill line.

MiniaAr#5798

I disagree with the combining of forest goblins with regular goblins. The way to differentiate them is pretty clear, spiders (giant, gigantic and Arachnarok) vs Wolves (regular mounts and Wolf charriots).

I however agree with the concept of one big dlc to finish a race when needed.
If 4 LLs, I would favour:
Snagla Grobspit -> Forest goblin representative
Gorilla -> Skirmish goblin lord (compared to Grom who is "in your face")
Gorfang Rotgut -> regular Orc LL, Badlands GS lord once Wurzzag moves to the central jungles.
Morglum -> Orc cavalry lord.

TancredIIQuenelles#3970

Basic forest goblins were same as common rulevise. The only unique thing is spider units and mounts. Mounts are already as volfs so spiders for goblin heroes. I m not against separate forest goblins but indifferent.

P.S. for topiccaster - it seems you forgot to add squiggonna to your list.

PoorManatee6197#6481

Agree with the concept, but not with the lord/hero and unit choices, I think it would be important to allow armies of the 6 subspecies to be a thing, so every one of them should have at least 1 lord and 1 hero option, and deffinitely no to the goblin merge.

Unit wise it ould be appropiate to include the long asked for weapon variants: orc spears, black orcs with shields (or weapon swap option)... alongside at least 1 melee infantry and 1 archer option for forest goblins.

From your unit selection I would get rid of giant scorpions, squigadons, hagranyms and hill goblins, and would add the spear chukka and the squig gobbla. Though looking at the WoC I dont think this type of DLC would have that many new skeletons.

PoorManatee6197#6481

Tancred2Quenelles said:

Basic forest goblins were same as common rulevise. The only unique thing is spider units and mounts. Mounts are already as volfs so spiders for goblin heroes. I m not against separate forest goblins but indifferent.

P.S. for topiccaster - it seems you forgot to add squiggonna to your list.

I think the problem with them is that their thing would be poison attacks, but night goblins already have that.

Draxynnic#3149

PoorManatee6197 said:

Tancred2Quenelles said:

Basic forest goblins were same as common rulevise. The only unique thing is spider units and mounts. Mounts are already as volfs so spiders for goblin heroes. I m not against separate forest goblins but indifferent.

P.S. for topiccaster - it seems you forgot to add squiggonna to your list.

I think the problem with them is that their thing would be poison attacks, but night goblins already have that.

Forest Goblins back in the day couldn't have armour, so hypothetically they could have less armour in exchange for bonuses in forests. Maybe give them Vanguard but not Stalk.

Mad_D0c_#1516

While I would like that, I dont think a pure Greenskin DLC will be a financial success.
They should make 2 races each 2 LL.

Theo91#7431

MiniaAr said:

I disagree with the combining of forest goblins with regular goblins. The way to differentiate them is pretty clear, spiders (giant, gigantic and Arachnarok) vs Wolves (regular mounts and Wolf charriots).

I however agree with the concept of one big dlc to finish a race when needed.
If 4 LLs, I would favour:
Snagla Grobspit -> Forest goblin representative
Gorilla -> Skirmish goblin lord (compared to Grom who is "in your face")
Gorfang Rotgut -> regular Orc LL, Badlands GS lord once Wurzzag moves to the central jungles.
Morglum -> Orc cavalry lord.

This please. And then obviously we need the generic lord and hero variants to accompany. We probably dont need every single variant but i think a Savage orc hero and lord and forest gobbo hero and lord are a must.

Forest gobbo heroes on Araknaroks would be sweet. similar to skink heroes on stegadons

MiniaAr#5798

I agree that all possible characters are not necessarily needed.

Personally I would follow a similar pattern as Slaabens and Nurgle are getting: caster lord/melee hero or melee lord/caster hero

Something like that:
Forest goblins: caster lord and melee hero (Arachnarok mount for lord, gigantic spider for hero)
Goblin : fine Ith current setup
Night goblin: fine with current setup
Black Orcs: add Black Orc melee lord
Regular orcs: add regular orc caster lord
Savage orcs: maybe melee lord and caster hero so that Wurzzag remains unique?

TancredIIQuenelles#3970

Forest goblins are the only field of disagreement, and ys, spear chukka is a must

Mkeefe78#4317

I think this is a great idea and I hope they add all green skin weapon variants. I think that a Goblin Spear Chucka would be easy to include as well. I could never understand why the Warden and the Paunch DLC did not include the Chucka or more weapon variety, it seemed like really low hanging fruit, yet we got THREE snotling pumpwagon variants……

TancredIIQuenelles#3970

Yep wandered about same things then

TheWattman#7460

MiniaAr said:

I disagree with the combining of forest goblins with regular goblins. The way to differentiate them is pretty clear, spiders (giant, gigantic and Arachnarok) vs Wolves (regular mounts and Wolf charriots).

Well a Goblin leader could have all that and depending on which subrace you're playing you may just choose which mount side to go down. The Goblin Warboss could either mount a Wolf Chariot or an Arachnarok, while a Big Boss would take either a giant spider or a regular wolf.

Tancred2Quenelles said:

I think they can easily add all weapon option variants or existing units as it is quite easier than making god aligned reskins. I quite agree that goblins and forest goblins merged is no tragedy. I think its also ok to merge ork and savage ork shamans to one type just give tatpos as upgrade in skill line.

As one who never really plays Greenskins, I never thought of that we were missing weapon variants here.

PoorManatee6197 said:

Agree with the concept, but not with the lord/hero and unit choices, I think it would be important to allow armies of the 6 subspecies to be a thing, so every one of them should have at least 1 lord and 1 hero option, and deffinitely no to the goblin merge.

Unit wise it ould be appropiate to include the long asked for weapon variants: orc spears, black orcs with shields (or weapon swap option)... alongside at least 1 melee infantry and 1 archer option for forest goblins.

From your unit selection I would get rid of giant scorpions, squigadons, hagranyms and hill goblins, and would add the spear chukka and the squig gobbla. Though looking at the WoC I dont think this type of DLC would have that many new skeletons.

Man do I feel stupid for leaving out the Spear Chukka and the Squig Gobbla lol.

Mkeefe78 said:

I could never understand why the Warden and the Paunch DLC did not include the Chucka or more weapon variety, it seemed like really low hanging fruit, yet we got THREE snotling pumpwagon variants……

I've been saying this ever since it was revealed. Such a waste of an update, with only a non-important hero addition and 3 unnecessary Snotling variants. If Grom isn't gonna bring a Goblin Warboss with him, then who the hell is?!

Haze64#2793

I would absolutely love all the weapon variants to be added too. Orcs should be one of the most versatile factions when it comes to melee options, they should have a weapon for any brawl. Stuff like Orc Boys with spears, big ‘uns with shields, Black Orcs with shields, goblins with swords etc. I feel it would help fix a lot of gaps their roster has compared to Skaven with their variants upon variants of Skavenslaves and Clanrats.

TheWattman#7460

Haze64 said:

I would absolutely love all the weapon variants to be added too. Orcs should be one of the most versatile factions when it comes to melee options, they should have a weapon for any brawl. Stuff like Orc Boys with spears, big ‘uns with shields, Black Orcs with shields, goblins with swords etc. I feel it would help fix a lot of gaps their roster has compared to Skaven with their variants upon variants of Skavenslaves and Clanrats.

Diversity is always welcome to create more thematic armies!

Earlybird#2907

Very nice great idea

You forgot thé Spear chukka

destroyer67115

I do wonder if they'd be willing to do all the weapon varients that are missing.

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434

I would like Greenskins to be completed and get more heroes and generic lords.

I doubt they will get the 4 LL treatment though. My guess is they would be pitted against another race. If they follow the 4 LL model it would be 2 Greenskin LL vs 2 of something else.

Snagla and Gorebad are DLC wothy. Gorefang can be the FLC. The rest are a bit too obscure IMO to make it in.

Veldrinar#2882

All the yes. Make the green tide FEEL like the green tide!

TheWattman#7460

destroyer67115 said:

I do wonder if they'd be willing to do all the weapon varients that are missing.

Since Champions of Chaos is largely variants, probably likely if CA just realizes what's missing.

TheTrue_LordAndy said:

I would like Greenskins to be completed and get more heroes and generic lords.

I doubt they will get the 4 LL treatment though. My guess is they would be pitted against another race. If they follow the 4 LL model it would be 2 Greenskin LL vs 2 of something else.

Snagla and Gorebad are DLC wothy. Gorefang can be the FLC. The rest are a bit too obscure IMO to make it in.

Sounds like a way to divide resources and thus less attention to the Greenskins tbh.