TILEA and ESTALIA expanded Army lists + Border Princes (Proposal for DLC)

Makuhico#8254

Hello everyone.

This is a continuation on my proposal for a Mercenary Kingdoms DLC that expanded in the Dogs of War.

I been refining the idea on how to Implement the Southern Kingdoms whit their own Identity, but also taking inspiration on the Dog Of war, you can read the first idea here:

THE MERCENARY KINGDOMS

I Imagine that this DLC race could contain 2 mayor factions and be the base for all the other Lords/factions that can join in this ¨race¨ of mercenaries via unit-reeskins, the first launch will contain Tilea and Estalia, and then one FLC mini-faction of The Border Princes with one single lord and start position.

Lets start with Tilea.


Then Estalia.


Finaly the Factions mechanics and the Border Princes FLC.



In the Case of Tile I work with the Tilean units from the DoW, including their regiments of renown, they Have Borgio and Lucrezzia as legendary lords, Luppo and Leonardo go to Legendary Unlockable heroes, and then the usual DoW Basic lords and Heroes, I fill some gaps in the Army with historical renascent soldiers, and add Leonardo Davinci war machines, this turns Tilea into a defensive artillery faction, similar with the Empire, Cathay and Dwarfs.

In the Other hand Estalia, was almost blank page, just 4 named units in lore....and I couldn't copy Tilea style, so I went to a very different rute. Estalia have aspects that shows the influences of both Tilea and Bretonia, and their own religious shenanigans, I had to give them two good legendary lords based in Historical figures of Spain and two different periods in time the middle ages with the reconquista and el Cid, and the Inquisition with Torquemada.
so you basically can go to medieval hammer and anvil style, or more a Tercios style so you have flexibility and don't have to be exactly like Tilea.

The Border Princes is the first mini faction, that brings mercenary units I choose Litepold the Black as LL and give him command over some human units, basically reskined units in Gladiatior/Greek style (Since I think we can interpret BP as the Balkans/Greece.
because of the location I give them the mercenary units of Dwarfs from the DoW also the Orks, and the Undead (cursed company) and few unique units like the half-orks (that we know cant be made in the traditional sense) and Blimmyes that are creatures that have the face in the torso we can consider them a type of ogre or a basic ogre reskin, and since Greek influence I think a Falange gameplay if you want to go with this units only will fit them well.

after give each faction so much distinct appearances and personalities I think is better that they could not confederate freely and you have to hire mercenaries from other minor factions instead of confederate them, vassals and conquest will be better option. so conquest your rival territories will give you access to their mercenary buildings for example and be able to reclute most of their troops except some exclusive units that will be locked in that faction, like the Davinci weapons only should be use under a Tilean banner, and some religious units of Estalia like the Bull Kinghts only be used in Estalian armies this will offer more replayability.

let me know your toughs on the matter.

please check other post I made regarding army lists:
Ind Army List


Thanks.
Makuhico.

Loreguy#1056

One of then will start in Lustria.

Xenos777

I especially like the Da Vinci's warmachines, would be a great addition to an otherwise barebones roster.

WhySoSalty#3990

obviously this is way to many units for a campaign/race pack but all in all its a great list. What i would love to see are special landmarks in the Moot, Lustria, Albion, Araby etc where you can hire region specific units like Amazons, Halflings, Fenbeast Arabyan horseman and war elephants etc

Farstead___________#2392

Nice list. I would love more Tilea and Estalia especially.

Slayer_Yannir#8069

That Estalian list is awesome!

Bull-riding knights? War popes? Sign me up.

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sykall#1105

Xenos777 said:

I especially like the Da Vinci's warmachines, would be a great addition to an otherwise barebones roster.

If we ever get Tilea or a Southern Realms DLC it needs Da Vinci Tech

EarthDragon

WhySoSalty said:

obviously this is way to many units for a campaign/race pack but all in all its a great list. What i would love to see are special landmarks in the Moot, Lustria, Albion, Araby etc where you can hire region specific units like Amazons, Halflings, Fenbeast Arabyan horseman and war elephants etc

Not if you reskin imperial units for much of the list

🤣🤣🤣

Xenos777

WhySoSalty said:

obviously this is way to many units for a campaign/race pack but all in all its a great list. What i would love to see are special landmarks in the Moot, Lustria, Albion, Araby etc where you can hire region specific units like Amazons, Halflings, Fenbeast Arabyan horseman and war elephants etc

but wouldn't be that "mercenary" if you have to conquer regions to recruit regional units. I would allow recruiting just by going and setting camp there, like mercenaries work in Rome.

SteelRonin#4832

Looks generic Age of Empires units. Tilea and Estalia should be revamped in Old World Update, so we can have more warhammerish units.

Makuhico#8254

Xenos777 said:

I especially like the Da Vinci's warmachines, would be a great addition to an otherwise barebones roster.

Davinci rocks so much that Dwarfs Stole the Organ guns from him!

Makuhico#8254

Yannir said:

That Estalian list is awesome!

Bull-riding knights? War popes? Sign me up.

Estalia could rock so dam much!

Makuhico#8254

Mattock said:

I appreciate the work youve put into this, but the suggestions you've made would end up with Tilea and estalia just being a reskin of the empire, with maybe some bretonnai mixed in, and with fewer fantastical units.

Id much prefer they just use the tilean and estalian units we have as a basis for the dogs of war campaign pack, with 4 LL, and with a good number of new base roster mixed in from other cultures to add variety for the mercenary faction.

There is not Estalian units in Dogs of war, people has a misconception there.

Makuhico#8254

Xenos777 said:

WhySoSalty said:

obviously this is way to many units for a campaign/race pack but all in all its a great list. What i would love to see are special landmarks in the Moot, Lustria, Albion, Araby etc where you can hire region specific units like Amazons, Halflings, Fenbeast Arabyan horseman and war elephants etc

but wouldn't be that "mercenary" if you have to conquer regions to recruit regional units. I would allow recruiting just by going and setting camp there, like mercenaries work in Rome.

We can discuss on how to create a real mercenary faction but that there is still their onw faction and not just Orge mercenaries mechanics.

Makuhico#8254

SteelRonin said:

Looks generic Age of Empires units. Tilea and Estalia should be revamped in Old World Update, so we can have more warhammerish units.

lets hope so, the images are just for reference the visuals will need to change and get adjustes to Warhammer.

DarthEnderX-#6513

This idea doesn't seem like it would mesh with your previous DoW idea. Because those rosters are way to extensive what you proposed in that idea.


Either way, I need Morgan Bernhardt in this game. Even if the Grudgebringers are just an NPC minor faction.

Makuhico#8254

DarthEnderX said:

This idea doesn't seem like it would mesh with your previous DoW idea. Because those rosters are way to extensive what you proposed in that idea.


Either way, I need Morgan Bernhardt in this game. Even if the Grudgebringers are just an NPC minor faction.

Yeah i cahnge things a bit a leat for Tilea and Estalia, still think other lord's could be added with some units in "lord packs" the idea is still in evolution

Nazjax#2857

''Half orks'' ?

Overhaul you have good ideas but some things are a bit weird too.

But well done for the overhaul design/presentation and description if it's made by you !

Slayer_Yannir#8069

Nazjax said:

''Half orks'' ?

Overhaul you have good ideas but some things are a bit weird too.

But well done for the overhaul design/presentation and description if it's made by you !

Yeah, Half Orcs are impossible. Warhammer Orcs physically resemble males but they, in fact, don't have genitals because they don't reproduce that way. All their excrement comes out the back end.

Makuhico#8254

It is made for me.....why I would take credit if not....

don't know if you realize it war hammer is weird since the beginning.

Makuhico#8254

Yannir said:

Nazjax said:

''Half orks'' ?

Overhaul you have good ideas but some things are a bit weird too.

But well done for the overhaul design/presentation and description if it's made by you !

Yeah, Half Orcs are impossible. Warhammer Orcs physically resemble males but they, in fact, don't have genitals because they don't reproduce that way. All their excrement comes out the back end.

I know that Orks are just fungus that reproduce by spores and that they cant born in the normal sense, that is precisely the joke, they maybe just more looking human orks, or made with magic, I throw them to be something of a wildcard to make more interesting some units, and let the people thinking hot this can be if cant happen in the traditional sense.

Pr4vda#6038

Not sure about Tilea. They seem a bit basic. However, Estalia seems really interesting and unique ! You really hype me a lot with them ^^

Yakinton#1016

A very nice list, I love how you split Telia and Estalia. I really hope CA does something like this. I am skeptical as they made there home lands so tiny

LordCommander#3741

It'd be a shame if we got to the end of Warhammer 3's life cycle and TEB was still not coloured in as races. Honestly I think Border Princes could get away with being a mix of minor bret, empire and kislev regions rather than simply nerfed empire as there isn't alot there and more resources could go to Tilea and Estalia. As for their roster, I'd hope GW could give them a set of ideas for CA to choose from as the current lineup suggestions are a little derivative. The narrative of Tilea and Estalia being engaged in a cold war but conducting mercenary work abroad as competitors for other races might work. Not exactly lore friendly but hey, the entire world got blown up in lore so let's have something fresh.

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Makuhico#8254

Pr4vda said:

Not sure about Tilea. They seem a bit basic. However, Estalia seems really interesting and unique ! You really hype me a lot with them ^^

I really feel that a Estalia like this will be fun as hell.

Makuhico#8254

Yakinton said:

A very nice list, I love how you split Telia and Estalia. I really hope CA does something like this. I am skeptical as they made there home lands so tiny

Only time wil tell.

Makuhico#8254

LordCommander said:

It'd be a shame if we got to the end of Warhammer 3's life cycle and TEB was still not coloured in as races. Honestly I think Border Princes could get away with being a mix of minor bret, empire and kislev regions rather than simply nerfed empire as there isn't alot there and more resources could go to Tilea and Estalia. As for their roster, I'd hope GW could give them a set of ideas for CA to choose from as the current lineup suggestions are a little derivative. The narrative of Tilea and Estalia being engaged in a cold war but conducting mercenary work abroad as competitors for other races might work. Not exactly lore friendly but hey, the entire world got blown up in lore so let's have something fresh.

I let the Borders princes list very short for that reason but I let some units only recruitable for them or for the faction that own their territories or for other mercenary factions to recruit, BP should be ultimate sandbox.

Makuhico#8254

Mattock said:

Makuhico said:

Mattock said:

I appreciate the work youve put into this, but the suggestions you've made would end up with Tilea and estalia just being a reskin of the empire, with maybe some bretonnai mixed in, and with fewer fantastical units.

Id much prefer they just use the tilean and estalian units we have as a basis for the dogs of war campaign pack, with 4 LL, and with a good number of new base roster mixed in from other cultures to add variety for the mercenary faction.

There is not Estalian units in Dogs of war, people has a misconception there.

Ok but the only official estalian troops we have are from way back, which are Diestros (swordsmen), Caballeros (knights) and Conquistadors (handguns). Those are just slight reskins of existing empire troops. You can have tilean pikemen and estalian swordsmen in a dogs of war roster.

thats why I started from there, I think we have more flexibility to retcon Estalia than tTlea.

Many units are easy reskins on propose so people can play the armies whit the reskins they like more so their faction is more unique, and having some special units recruitable only by their main factions to add replayability.

Draxynnic#3149

A nitpick that jumped out immediately: Doppelsoldner are already essentially what became Empire Greatswords. The inspiration behind State Troops are, essentially, what would happen if Landsknechtes had actually worked more-or-less as intended, rather than going mercenary because their founder couldn't afford to pay the troops that he'd raised and trained. (I know the bulk of landsknechtes historically were pikemen, but Spearmen were probably intended to fill that role, since Warhammer didn't distinguish between spears and pikes until the DoW book was released).

Otherwise... I don't think it's really realistic to expect Estalia and Tilea to have separate lists. What's probably more likely is that both will be presented as largely mercenary forces, drawing from mercenaries from both nations (and abroad), but a Tilean LL will get bonuses with Tilean mercenaries, while an Estalian LL would get bonuses with Estalian mercenaries.

On that, given the lack of established Estalian characters, I could see them pulling a "Lucrezia married an Estalian" to make her an Estalian LL rather than having two Tilean LLs.