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A good starting selection but in terms of budget the DLC seems unbalanced in favour of Tzeentch, the later gets two big centerpiece units while the Empire only gets a series of what at best is remodels. Unless there are a lot of new Empire animations that is a unequal allocation of the budget. (And we all know that CA will reuse existing skeletons and animation whenever they can.)
A way to balance the budget is reworking the Empire lord to be a Grandmaster lord where we get to chose from several different options. In the simplest form we get a generic Grandmaster and the Grandmaster of the White Wolf, for more visual variations the generic grandmaster could be modeled to include variations that look like KP and KotBS. In it's most advanced form the Grandmaster system would let us start with a generic Grandmaster which we then level up and specialise into one of the major orders. (Yes I'm stealing the path of glory and the chaos mark mechanics.)
Strictly speaking the Teutogen Guard are a Regiment of Renown, they are a single small unit of dismounted Knights of the White Wolf who guard the Ar-Ulric in battle. Unlike the foot Reiksguard there was never a large scale use of the Teutogen Guard.
There is one Ulrican unit missing, the Warriors of Ulric who provide the bulk of the low tier infantry for the cult alongside the borrowed state troops.
Like the scenario setting, mirrors Volkmars crusade into the north in the Storm of Chaos.
Nah Teutogen Guard and KotWW are fine centrepiece units that also require new animations. The empire doesn’t need flashy monsters and stuff. So the Empire would be more quantity in this pack while Tzeentch is more quality. Seems like a good balance.
Teutogen Guard aren’t a RoR, they guard every temple of Ulric.
Teutogen Guard aren’t a RoR, they guard every temple of Ulric.
The official Cult of Ulric army list says otherwise
As does the Storm of Chaos supplement
As does the Ashes of Middenheim sourcebook.
If you think I faked these you may want to take a look at the documentary on the Teutogen Guard made by IndyPride and Invicta https://youtu.be/WM2crdc0wpc?t=565
The Teutongen Guard does not guard "every" temple, they guard only one, the temple in Middenheim where the sacred flame of Ulric burns and the Ar-Ulric resides.
The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
No... just no... Ok that is a side argument about how magic was implemented in TWWH with all mages being roughly as potent as one another.
So long as all wizards are the casting the same spells with the same ability in the game than the Exaulted Hero of Tzeentch shouldn't be singled out for different treatment.
This is a pretty decent LP proposal. That said, ever since someone proposed 'The Wolf and the Bear' I've favored pairing the Ar-Ulric against Beorg Bearstruck. The poetry in the name is just too good.
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
No... just no... Ok that is a side argument about how magic was implemented in TWWH with all mages being roughly as potent as one another.
So long as all wizards are the casting the same spells with the same ability in the game than the Exaulted Hero of Tzeentch shouldn't be singled out for different treatment.
They aren't all casting with the same ability - spell mastery is a thing in WH3. Now maybe this means Tzeentch sorcerers should have increased spell mastery (and maybe they do, we'll find out when CoC releases).
They could also have bound spells (and hence limited casts)
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
No... just no... Ok that is a side argument about how magic was implemented in TWWH with all mages being roughly as potent as one another.
So long as all wizards are the casting the same spells with the same ability in the game than the Exaulted Hero of Tzeentch shouldn't be singled out for different treatment.
They aren't all casting with the same ability - spell mastery is a thing in WH3. Now maybe this means Tzeentch sorcerers should have increased spell mastery (and maybe they do, we'll find out when CoC releases).
Sure... sure... and again my point is this is a "Global" problem with the game and how it's balanced. Until we start seeing Morathi, Mazdamundi, Ghelt, Generic Lord Mages vs Hero Mages get a go over with Spell Mastery to differentiate them than no, Tzeentch doesn't need to be singled out.
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
No... just no... Ok that is a side argument about how magic was implemented in TWWH with all mages being roughly as potent as one another.
So long as all wizards are the casting the same spells with the same ability in the game than the Exaulted Hero of Tzeentch shouldn't be singled out for different treatment.
They aren't all casting with the same ability - spell mastery is a thing in WH3. Now maybe this means Tzeentch sorcerers should have increased spell mastery (and maybe they do, we'll find out when CoC releases).
Sure... sure... and again my point is this is a "Global" problem with the game and how it's balanced. Until we start seeing Morathi, Mazdamundi, Ghelt, Generic Lord Mages vs Hero Mages get a go over with Spell Mastery to differentiate them than no, Tzeentch doesn't need to be singled out.
I'm fully expecting the "big" caster characters (Mazda, Teclis etc.) to get spell mastery changes with IE, or else with an update in the not-too-distant future. Certainly well in advance of this proposed DLC.
I'm fully expecting the "big" caster characters (Mazda, Teclis etc.) to get spell mastery changes with IE, or else with an update in the not-too-distant future. Certainly well in advance of this proposed DLC.
On that level I fully agree, if there's going to be abilities that boost spell casting ability than those should be going to lord level casters and doubly so for Characters that are particularly noted for their prowess in the magical arts.
Also while we're talking about abilities that effect spell power. Spell Resistance should work like "Reverse" Spell mastery and lower the power of non-damaging spells. This would greatly improve its utility against debuffs, also certain lords who had "extra dispel" dice or other abilities in that vein could have map wide "Reverse Spell Mastery" that made all spell by enemy casters be cast at a lower power level.
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
I'd replace Firewyrm with some homebrewed mutated champions of Tzeentch meself (probably a lot more realistic budget wise too!) and likely an Exalted Hero of Tzeentch makes more sense for him than yet another caster on a disc when he'll already have two of them, but overall the Tzeentch side is a solid base for a LP.
The Empire side may be too thematic for CA. We fans like to think LPs should be super duper uber thematic but historically they really haven't been outside of a handful. Sniktch brought Skryre weapon teams. Hellebron brought Kharybdyss. Grom brought the Rogue Idol. Taurox brought the Jabber. Most LPs have 1-2 thematic units and the rest is a soup of whatever CA wants to add. I think Knights of the White Wolf are a lock, Teutogen Guard likely, Wolf-Kin way overlap overmuch with Flagellants. Empire will likely get something like the Hurricanum instead, easy to repurpose its assets from the Luminark and it's an armybook unit.
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
Yap pretty much that’s the idea. The engineer stuff can come against Tamurkhan.
It would be a great nod to older editions where the Mark of Tzeentch made you a wizard, also it would allow for a great deal of tactical flexibility with magic should you choose to take it which is very Tzeentchian.
Yes, that makes sense that a character with mark of Tzeentch get to cast some spells, but Exalted Hero shouldn't be as powerful as dedicated casters.
I always imagined Exalted Heroes of Tzeentch to work as hybrid melee casters. Similar to the Loremaster of Hoeth.
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
The second dlc should be Nuln/Engineering/Magic
LL: Elspeth GL: Magister Lord GH: Empire Engineer Flc GH: Gold Magister Units: Ironside Son of Guns Celestial Hurricanum
A good starting selection but in terms of budget the DLC seems unbalanced in favour of Tzeentch, the later gets two big centerpiece units while the Empire only gets a series of what at best is remodels. Unless there are a lot of new Empire animations that is a unequal allocation of the budget. (And we all know that CA will reuse existing skeletons and animation whenever they can.)
A way to balance the budget is reworking the Empire lord to be a Grandmaster lord where we get to chose from several different options. In the simplest form we get a generic Grandmaster and the Grandmaster of the White Wolf, for more visual variations the generic grandmaster could be modeled to include variations that look like KP and KotBS. In it's most advanced form the Grandmaster system would let us start with a generic Grandmaster which we then level up and specialise into one of the major orders. (Yes I'm stealing the path of glory and the chaos mark mechanics.)
Strictly speaking the Teutogen Guard are a Regiment of Renown, they are a single small unit of dismounted Knights of the White Wolf who guard the Ar-Ulric in battle. Unlike the foot Reiksguard there was never a large scale use of the Teutogen Guard.
There is one Ulrican unit missing, the Warriors of Ulric who provide the bulk of the low tier infantry for the cult alongside the borrowed state troops.
Like the scenario setting, mirrors Volkmars crusade into the north in the Storm of Chaos.
Nah Teutogen Guard and KotWW are fine centrepiece units that also require new animations. The empire doesn’t need flashy monsters and stuff. So the Empire would be more quantity in this pack while Tzeentch is more quality. Seems like a good balance.
Teutogen Guard aren’t a RoR, they guard every temple of Ulric.
but i would love the celestial hurricanum
Don’t worry mate that thing is saved for the Tamurkhan LP. 😉
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
The second dlc should be Nuln/Engineering/Magic
LL: Elspeth GL: Magister Lord GH: Empire Engineer Flc GH: Gold Magister Units: Ironside Son of Guns Celestial Hurricanum
Plus something else but I don't remember
Sons of Guns are Hochland long riffles I presume? Because I really want some Crain Gunners/Jezzails for the Empire.
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
The second dlc should be Nuln/Engineering/Magic
LL: Elspeth GL: Magister Lord GH: Empire Engineer Flc GH: Gold Magister Units: Ironside Son of Guns Celestial Hurricanum
Plus something else but I don't remember
Sons of Guns are Hochland long riffles I presume? Because I really want some Crain Gunners/Jezzails for the Empire.
Sons of Guns are a organisation in Nuln that take orphans and give them an education, and work (either in the forge or in the Nuln armies, ranged post usually)
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
The second dlc should be Nuln/Engineering/Magic
LL: Elspeth GL: Magister Lord GH: Empire Engineer Flc GH: Gold Magister Units: Ironside Son of Guns Celestial Hurricanum
Plus something else but I don't remember
Sons of Guns are Hochland long riffles I presume? Because I really want some Crain Gunners/Jezzails for the Empire.
Sons of Guns are a organisation in Nuln that take orphans and give them an education, and work (either in the forge or in the Nuln armies, ranged post usually)
So similar to Ironsides? Like what guns are they using?
I would like to see imperial engineer heros and some new nasty and strange war machines. One DLC with the Ulric Cult and another one with an Engineer-focus would be awesome.
The second dlc should be Nuln/Engineering/Magic
LL: Elspeth GL: Magister Lord GH: Empire Engineer Flc GH: Gold Magister Units: Ironside Son of Guns Celestial Hurricanum
Plus something else but I don't remember
Sons of Guns are Hochland long riffles I presume? Because I really want some Crain Gunners/Jezzails for the Empire.
Sons of Guns are a organisation in Nuln that take orphans and give them an education, and work (either in the forge or in the Nuln armies, ranged post usually)
So similar to Ironsides? Like what guns are they using?
Pretty much every gun available, I think the Ironside are Son of Guns
That feels still lacking on both sides. The Ulrician side should have White Wolves as roided-up Norscan Ice Wolves with Fear and Terror along with anti-large, anti-infantry and a ward save. Also an additional hero unit in the form of the Children of Ulric who would be capable of shapeshifting between human and werewolf forms (in stark contrast to the Skin Wolf Werekin who can't control their transformations at will and only transform when they hunger for human flesh like all Skin Wolves are) which would also give the player new tactical options. Also a High-Priest of Ulric as a Lord and Wolf Brothers as armored Flagellants.
For the Tzeentch side they should also get Aspiring Champions of Tzeentch and an Exalted Champion Hero. Not to mention those Tzeentchian Trolls Egrimm created that vomit raw magic at people and which he accidentally created. There is even a lore-blurb in the loading screen on the last one. Also a vanilla Chaos Lord of Tzeentch that instead gives a whole lot of bonuses to units to show his great tactical and strategic acumen.
, Wolf-Kin way overlap overmuch with Flagellants. Empire will likely get something like the Hurricanum instead, easy to repurpose its assets from the Luminark and it's an armybook unit.
Wolf-Kin don't overlap with Flagellants in any way, they have entirely different stats and special rules and Wolf-Kin also have a different and more varied selection of equipment.
For starters Wolf-Kin are not Unbreakable like Flagellants, that alone gives them a different battlefield role. (Wolf-Kin had the Stubborn rule.) Wolf-Kin were skilled and strong warriors which was represented by Weapon skill 4 and Strenght 4 in the TT, they hit hard for Empire infantry. They could also equip armour, shields and great weapons. In the TT Wolf-Kin also had the Skirmisher rule which if translated to Total War would give them a formation more like Huntsmen than the regular blocks of State Troops.
If properly added to the game Wolf-Kin would come in both a sword & board version that can both hold the line and clear chaff while the great weapon variant would be anti-armour and anti-infantry while going for more of a flanking role than going straight in like the Greatswords.
The user formerly known as KN_Gars, thanks for the involunatry rename CA.
That feels still lacking on both sides. The Ulrician side should have White Wolves as roided-up Norscan Ice Wolves with Fear and Terror along with anti-large, anti-infantry and a ward save. Also an additional hero unit in the form of the Children of Ulric who would be capable of shapeshifting between human and werewolf forms (in stark contrast to the Skin Wolf Werekin who can't control their transformations at will and only transform when they hunger for human flesh like all Skin Wolves are) which would also give the player new tactical options. Also a High-Priest of Ulric as a Lord and Wolf Brothers as armored Flagellants.
For the Tzeentch side they should also get Aspiring Champions of Tzeentch and an Exalted Champion Hero. Not to mention those Tzeentchian Trolls Egrimm created that vomit raw magic at people and which he accidentally created. There is even a lore-blurb in the loading screen on the last one. Also a vanilla Chaos Lord of Tzeentch that instead gives a whole lot of bonuses to units to show his great tactical and strategic acumen.
Tzeentch gets the Vortex Beast and the Firewyrm… if that’s lacking then I assume Ghorgon + Jabber were also lacking for you.
Comments
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2 · 2Disagree 2AgreeAs does the Storm of Chaos supplement
As does the Ashes of Middenheim sourcebook.
If you think I faked these you may want to take a look at the documentary on the Teutogen Guard made by IndyPride and Invicta
The Teutongen Guard does not guard "every" temple, they guard only one, the temple in Middenheim where the sacred flame of Ulric burns and the Ar-Ulric resides.
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2 · 2Disagree 2Agree- Report
0 · 3Disagree AgreeHe came in a busted dlc that wasn't really worth it's price at the time.
He's a "flc"... or more technically a "I already paid for this'
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10 · Disagree 10Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeSo long as all wizards are the casting the same spells with the same ability in the game than the Exaulted Hero of Tzeentch shouldn't be singled out for different treatment.
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0 · 2Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeThey could also have bound spells (and hence limited casts)
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeSure... sure... and again my point is this is a "Global" problem with the game and how it's balanced. Until we start seeing Morathi, Mazdamundi, Ghelt, Generic Lord Mages vs Hero Mages get a go over with Spell Mastery to differentiate them than no, Tzeentch doesn't need to be singled out.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI'm fully expecting the "big" caster characters (Mazda, Teclis etc.) to get spell mastery changes with IE, or else with an update in the not-too-distant future. Certainly well in advance of this proposed DLC.
- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeAlso while we're talking about abilities that effect spell power. Spell Resistance should work like "Reverse" Spell mastery and lower the power of non-damaging spells. This would greatly improve its utility against debuffs, also certain lords who had "extra dispel" dice or other abilities in that vein could have map wide "Reverse Spell Mastery" that made all spell by enemy casters be cast at a lower power level.
- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
3 · Disagree 3AgreeThe Empire side may be too thematic for CA. We fans like to think LPs should be super duper uber thematic but historically they really haven't been outside of a handful. Sniktch brought Skryre weapon teams. Hellebron brought Kharybdyss. Grom brought the Rogue Idol. Taurox brought the Jabber. Most LPs have 1-2 thematic units and the rest is a soup of whatever CA wants to add. I think Knights of the White Wolf are a lock, Teutogen Guard likely, Wolf-Kin way overlap overmuch with Flagellants. Empire will likely get something like the Hurricanum instead, easy to repurpose its assets from the Luminark and it's an armybook unit.
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1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
2 · 1Disagree 2Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree AgreeLL: Elspeth
GL: Magister Lord
GH: Empire Engineer
Flc GH: Gold Magister
Units:
Ironside
Son of Guns
Celestial Hurricanum
Plus something else but I don't remember
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2 · 2Disagree 2Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
0 · 1Disagree AgreeFor the Tzeentch side they should also get Aspiring Champions of Tzeentch and an Exalted Champion Hero. Not to mention those Tzeentchian Trolls Egrimm created that vomit raw magic at people and which he accidentally created. There is even a lore-blurb in the loading screen on the last one. Also a vanilla Chaos Lord of Tzeentch that instead gives a whole lot of bonuses to units to show his great tactical and strategic acumen.
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1 · 3Disagree 1AgreeFor starters Wolf-Kin are not Unbreakable like Flagellants, that alone gives them a different battlefield role. (Wolf-Kin had the Stubborn rule.) Wolf-Kin were skilled and strong warriors which was represented by Weapon skill 4 and Strenght 4 in the TT, they hit hard for Empire infantry. They could also equip armour, shields and great weapons. In the TT Wolf-Kin also had the Skirmisher rule which if translated to Total War would give them a formation more like Huntsmen than the regular blocks of State Troops.
If properly added to the game Wolf-Kin would come in both a sword & board version that can both hold the line and clear chaff while the great weapon variant would be anti-armour and anti-infantry while going for more of a flanking role than going straight in like the Greatswords.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2Agree