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In fact the runic units actually are in-lore from various P.O.V.s.
Well yeah, even I know that, and I'm hardly a Warhammer lore master.
I just think that some of these guys who are against the dwarfs getting them are so ridiculous because they act like it's going to destroy not only the dwarfs but the entire game as a whole if they get these like 2 units.
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Dwarf infantry just need to be buffed to a loreful level and stop being so squishy to cheese.
For example, they need mass raised until chariots cannot drive through them, which is loreful as they are the most stout infantry in the world.
Next, magic resistance should be very high. AoE dmg spell cheese should not be a viable strategy for beating dwarfs.
Miners need to be massively buffed and stop being chaff.
Hammerers, longbeards, and GW dwarfs need much higher defense and charge resistance.
You do those things and you can rely on your infantry. We also need slayer heros with massive anti-large bonuses that make sending SEMs into the backline suicide.
Regardless about what we may all think about any hypothetical units, this right here is something that everyone should get behind. Dwarfs need a stats overhaul as in depth as what the VC are getting in the coming patch.
Dwarf infantry just need to be buffed to a loreful level and stop being so squishy to cheese.
For example, they need mass raised until chariots cannot drive through them, which is loreful as they are the most stout infantry in the world.
Next, magic resistance should be very high. AoE dmg spell cheese should not be a viable strategy for beating dwarfs.
Miners need to be massively buffed and stop being chaff.
Hammerers, longbeards, and GW dwarfs need much higher defense and charge resistance.
You do those things and you can rely on your infantry. We also need slayer heros with massive anti-large bonuses that make sending SEMs into the backline suicide.
I do agree with you that the Dwarf infantry should get a nice buff to their stats.
Though I do think that the GW dwarf infantry don't really need a ton of MD, but a fair bit more MA to make using them aggressively be far more of an option.
The Dwarf infantry should be a real case of quality over quantity.
Regardless about what we may all think about any hypothetical units, this right here is something that everyone should get behind. Dwarfs need a stats overhaul as in depth as what the VC are getting in the coming patch.
Well, I do agree with you on that, I just think that the dwarfs need something like the Rune Guardians and Golems mainly because aside from focusing like all their firepower, the dwarfs don't have tons of options of dealing with giant monsters, aside from squishy slayers of course.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
pss, orks with spears is homogenizing orks
No because orcs with spears is a base part of the greenskins roster. Nice try.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
That's ridiculous dude.
Giving the Dwarfs 2 freaking monstrous infantry sized units would NOT break the game or anything.
You lore guys just need to calm down and let go of the idea that the games should be 100% lore accurate.
No.
Besides as it is you can hire units from other rosters by getting outposts. Dogs of War are very likely going to be an "ogre mercenary" style mercenary mechanic (and you can also still hire ogre mercs from their camps...).
There is NO need for this nonsense. You already have access to this stuff via allied shenanigans. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Dwarf faction.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
pss, orks with spears is homogenizing orks
No because orcs with spears is a base part of the greenskins roster. Nice try.
Base part of the roster are Orc Big 'Uns, dont tarnish ork identity with spears, what are they, elves!? and anyway there are outposts for this and that, mercs - plenty of stuff
There is NO need for this nonsense. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Greenskin faction.
Besides as it is you can hire units from other rosters by getting outposts. Dogs of War are very likely going to be an "ogre mercenary" style mercenary mechanic (and you can also still hire ogre mercs from their camps...).
There is NO need for this nonsense. You already have access to this stuff via allied shenanigans. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Dwarf faction.
Yes.
The problem with the whole DoW bringing in an expanded mercenary system would be that it would do that very "diluting and sullying" the dwarf faction stuff you're against.
And besides, the Rune Golems and Guardians would be powerful late game units that you can't really just gain tons of access to super quickly. Yeah, some ogre mercenaries might help out, but they'll hardly ALWAYS be around in plentiful numbers.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
That's ridiculous dude.
Giving the Dwarfs 2 freaking monstrous infantry sized units would NOT break the game or anything.
You lore guys just need to calm down and let go of the idea that the games should be 100% lore accurate.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
That's ridiculous dude.
Giving the Dwarfs 2 freaking monstrous infantry sized units would NOT break the game or anything.
You lore guys just need to calm down and let go of the idea that the games should be 100% lore accurate.
No.
Besides as it is you can hire units from other rosters by getting outposts. Dogs of War are very likely going to be an "ogre mercenary" style mercenary mechanic (and you can also still hire ogre mercs from their camps...).
There is NO need for this nonsense. You already have access to this stuff via allied shenanigans. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Dwarf faction.
This won't sully Dwarfs. Their three unique things are their runic magic, engineer skills and how they use them. Them creating runic constructs and shackling murder ferrets with said runic magic is not lore-breaking when you look at the wider lore, read all the books and side materials (all which are canon). Nothing lore-breaking here.
Same for if Dwarfs invented the Deathroller from Blood Bowl in mainline Warhammer Fantasy because that would be the result of their engineer skills and pragmatism. Also nothing lore-breaking here.
Maybe you are also against Witch Hunters of Gazul or Doomstones too? Not to mention that with the allied Outpost mechanic Thorek's Yolked Carnosaur looses on his uniqueness when each army will have 4 Carnosaurs each.
Sorry, but you and similar people actually fail at what makes Dwarfs unique.
Edit: Also mercs would be the actual thing that would dilute Dwarfs because then they'd be hiring tons of better units that aren't their own.
I know, that's why I'm for them being added to the dwarf roster.
Sorry, but didn't see that it somehow duplicated. Damn comments somehow get saved.and I don't realize until it's too late. And then it's needless duplication.
Said wiki articles contradict your statements. Nothing about not beeing able to use rune guardians anymore and rune golems could be activated with runelord sacrifice.
Well you will learn to read together so:
"During the War of Vengeance, the "old magic" that had empowered the Rune Golems had begun to sink deeper into the earth, out of the reach of any Runelord"
War of Vengeance is the first stone of Dwarf empire downfall (The lost of Rune Golem is a symptom of their downfall, important in a narrative perspective) and it's -2000 until -1600 before the coronation of frikkin Sigmar.
And even then it was a impossible task, but one guy...
The last one able to command them was Ranuld Silverthumb, the Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak, and even he needed the aid of other Runelords to fully awaken them. The act of attempting to animate the slumbering Golems and use them in the war alone turned him into stone.
The "Last One", do you know the word "Last" ? Karl Franz coronation is 2502...The last guy who could was more than 3000 years before the game setting and it seem it was already a disaster.
This many years maybe that why nobody talk about that in all the others Warhammer sources outside this.
Your conclusion : All current Karak have Rune Golem ready to go in their garage, are totaly able to do it when they want, just kill a runelord
Sry realy i will stop to be rude, i realise i'm probably bullying kids, it's not possible otherwise.
You are forgetting the fact that this wiki and its source materials contradicts your statement as despite not being usable AT THE MOMENT, they could be brought back. Rune Guardians can be brought back. All the Dwarfs need is a single intact one for them to reverse-engineer it and start mass producing those. .
You said "could" but as now they aren't. And for a reason, the narrative point in that is obvious for anyone who already opened a book.
Yes if they re-write all the lore your way it could, it's called a "retcon", i've say that world right in my post but you didn't understood it
TWW is an adaptation of the tabletop and his lore, in lore the unit didn't exist anymore, you say it "could be" with re-writing, but as it is now it's not. CA do some writing (Cathay, narrative campaign), some adaptations (Using V6 material instead V8 etc) but they're not re-writing the setting that much (Only exemple i can think is Sartosa turned into a undead faction. Aranesa have taking it over)
So yes, yes if they write things YOUR way it could happen, but with this everything can happen, how is this even an argument for you ?
Like, the anciens, they are canon, they fleed the planet and Lizardmen wait for them to come back. So they could do, so why not ? Why about writing stuff, like: "they are coming back, powerfull as a Nagash, telling Lizardmen what to do" ?
But will it still be warhammer Lizardmen ? Their all point is to manage their creator vision without them, figuring out their way with sign, prophecy, visions and ancien writting, fighting each other about who have the best interpretation. Basicaly, lost childs
This comeback screw their lore hard
It's the same for dwarf (and elve). They were the main powerhouse in this world, humans were basicaly monkey, they could do insane magic stuff like rune golem. But destiny, war of vengence, and other stuff, their are now fallen. Nostalgic of a former glory, they try to manage their way, fighting hard to keep what remain
You : Screw that they struggle in multiplayer and i want the toys they lost back and too bad for their narrative
You keep saying "they could change all the lore", i say in the current lore they are not a thing, and this kind of new writting is a bad idea.
People like to make the Dwarf unique with their shortcoming, so they will ensure all in their opinion to keep it as such.
Isn't that true about all factions. All factions have some sort of Shortcoming and that's part of their uniqueness. Even diverse factions like The Empire and Cathay have shortcomings that differentiate them from one another.
I don't understand why the Dwarfs are any different than these other factions except for complaints of "They're just so Bad" by a vocal few.
No matter how much you say "perhaps the Dwarfs should be Good at the things they're supposed to be Good at and what they are supposed to be Good at and what they are Good at should be Good in the game especially when done by a faction that Excels at it." They keep saying NO... The Dwarfs should do something other than what they are good at because the what the dwarfs do well isn't good in the game because CA "cant balance it right".
These people just suck... they are effectively openly advocating that a deficiency in the game that effects multiple factions should be ignored and instead some band-aid should be applied to the dwarfs so they can perform better, even if that makes them un-Dwarfy.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
pss, orks with spears is homogenizing orks
No because orcs with spears is a base part of the greenskins roster. Nice try.
Base part of the roster are Orc Big 'Uns, dont tarnish ork identity with spears, what are they, elves!? and anyway there are outposts for this and that, mercs - plenty of stuff
There is NO need for this nonsense. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Greenskin faction.
Do I need to bop you over the head with a rolled up army book? Do remember there is an entire tribe called Da Bloody Spearz. And yes they are a choice in the army book as a weapon.
Besides as it is you can hire units from other rosters by getting outposts. Dogs of War are very likely going to be an "ogre mercenary" style mercenary mechanic (and you can also still hire ogre mercs from their camps...).
There is NO need for this nonsense. You already have access to this stuff via allied shenanigans. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Dwarf faction.
Yes.
The problem with the whole DoW bringing in an expanded mercenary system would be that it would do that very "diluting and sullying" the dwarf faction stuff you're against.
And besides, the Rune Golems and Guardians would be powerful late game units that you can't really just gain tons of access to super quickly. Yeah, some ogre mercenaries might help out, but they'll hardly ALWAYS be around in plentiful numbers.
Hey, preach it! I don't really want a DoW mechanic, either. But it's almost guaranteed to come unless they bend over backwards making a faction out of it.
And those things shouldn't be in plentiful numbers.
Your mocking counter arguments are as twisted and feeble as an old woman.
Said wiki articles contradict your statements. Nothing about not beeing able to use rune guardians anymore and rune golems could be activated with runelord sacrifice.
Well you will learn to read together so:
"During the War of Vengeance, the "old magic" that had empowered the Rune Golems had begun to sink deeper into the earth, out of the reach of any Runelord"
War of Vengeance is the first stone of Dwarf empire downfall (The lost of Rune Golem is a symptom of their downfall, important in a narrative perspective) and it's -2000 until -1600 before the coronation of frikkin Sigmar.
And even then it was a impossible task, but one guy...
The last one able to command them was Ranuld Silverthumb, the Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak, and even he needed the aid of other Runelords to fully awaken them. The act of attempting to animate the slumbering Golems and use them in the war alone turned him into stone.
The "Last One", do you know the word "Last" ? Karl Franz coronation is 2502...The last guy who could was more than 3000 years before the game setting and it seem it was already a disaster.
This many years maybe that why nobody talk about that in all the others Warhammer sources outside this.
Your conclusion : All current Karak have Rune Golem ready to go in their garage, are totaly able to do it when they want, just kill a runelord
Sry realy i will stop to be rude, i realise i'm probably bullying kids, it's not possible otherwise.
You are forgetting the fact that this wiki and its source materials contradicts your statement as despite not being usable AT THE MOMENT, they could be brought back. Rune Guardians can be brought back. All the Dwarfs need is a single intact one for them to reverse-engineer it and start mass producing those. .
You said "could" but as now they aren't. And for a reason, the narrative point in that is obvious for anyone who already opened a book.
Yes if they re-write all the lore your way it could, it's called a "retcon", i've say that world right in my post but you didn't understood it
TWW is an adaptation of the tabletop and his lore, in lore the unit didn't exist anymore, you say it "could be" with re-writing, but as it is now it's not. CA do some writing (Cathay, narrative campaign), some adaptations (Using V6 material instead V8 etc) but they're not re-writing the setting that much (Only exemple i can think is Sartosa turned into a undead faction. Aranesa have taking it over)
So yes, yes if they write things YOUR way it could happen, but with this everything can happen, how is this even an argument for you ?
Like, the anciens, they are canon, they fleed the planet and Lizardmen wait for them to come back. So they could do, so why not ? Why about writing stuff, like: "they are coming back, powerfull as a Nagash, telling Lizardmen what to do" ?
But will it still be warhammer Lizardmen ? Their all point is to manage their creator vision without them, figuring out their way with sign, prophecy, visions and ancien writting, fighting each other about who have the best interpretation. Basicaly, lost childs
This comeback screw their lore hard
It's the same for dwarf (and elve). They were the main powerhouse in this world, humans were basicaly monkey, they could do insane magic stuff like rune golem. But destiny, war of vengence, and other stuff, their are now fallen. Nostalgic of a former glory, they try to manage their way, fighting hard to keep what remain
You : Screw that they struggle in multiplayer and i want the toys they lost back and too bad for their narrative
You keep saying "they could change all the lore", i say in the current lore they are not a thing, and this kind of new writting is a bad idea.
Still canon, still in-lore, no lore-breaking. You and others fail what makes Dwarfs unique and it's not the lack of monsters or cavalry but their runic magic and engineer skills.
Again, them creating runic constructs is nothing lore-breaking and shackling a murder ferret instead of killing it is also in-lore if you look at their lore and other personality elements apart of GRUDGES. Stuff like...pragmatism? Never occurred that to you?
And Deathrollers for Dwarfs? The Engineers can create them after centuries of field-testing.
The units still exist. Only they are relegated to tomb guarding or collecting dust.
Also can't wait for Dwarfs to get access to all monsters because Storm of Magic expansion allowed everyone to get those. And yes, this would be a 100% with the game because Storm of Magic allowed it. It would be 100% accurate with the game.
Also you still didn't answer my questions in my post.
Sorry, but didn't see that it somehow duplicated. Damn comments somehow get saved.and I don't realize until it's too late. And then it's needless duplication.
Not sure how much Dwarves have changed in TWW3, but if they are anyhow similar to TWW2... they DONT need either mobility or monsters. Maybe a RoR construct, but nothing that would change their identity seems right. They need their MD and armor (and general survivability) improved, to be able to close the gap and outperform their opponents in a slow but steady grind. If anything, Dwarves could've been immune to flanking bonuses, or have slightly increased mass to not fly around when a chariot hits them. And got the Rune Magic reverted to the state where it's actually useful, or at least the cooldown on it shortened (and interactive with traits, items and ushc).
The low survivability is especially visible on Gyros - even goblin archers could take that thing down. In TWW3 with all the towers and shooting factions around, Gyros will pop. Tried to use them from the outpost in my Kislev campaigns, but they just can't stand any amount of fire.
Hey, preach it! I don't really want a DoW mechanic, either. But it's almost guaranteed to come unless they bend over backwards making a faction out of it.
And those things shouldn't be in plentiful numbers.
Your mocking counter arguments are as twisted and feeble as an old woman.
That's not what I meant, I was just pointing out how some of the stuff you were suggesting contradicted itself.
I for one am completely in favor of a mercenary mechanic for some races that would logically use them, as it would help some races, such as the dwarfs, be able to cover their weaknesses, if only in a limited way.
And I guess you missed the part where I said the Rune Guardians and Golems would be high end units, which would probably be pretty expensive.
Dwarf infantry just need to be buffed to a loreful level and stop being so squishy to cheese.
For example, they need mass raised until chariots cannot drive through them, which is loreful as they are the most stout infantry in the world.
Next, magic resistance should be very high. AoE dmg spell cheese should not be a viable strategy for beating dwarfs.
Miners need to be massively buffed and stop being chaff.
Hammerers, longbeards, and GW dwarfs need much higher defense and charge resistance.
You do those things and you can rely on your infantry. We also need slayer heros with massive anti-large bonuses that make sending SEMs into the backline suicide.
I do agree with you that the Dwarf infantry should get a nice buff to their stats.
Though I do think that the GW dwarf infantry don't really need a ton of MD, but a fair bit more MA to make using them aggressively be far more of an option.
The Dwarf infantry should be a real case of quality over quantity.
Yeah even if you where to just flip the MA and MD of Dwarf GW's I think they would be a lot more compelling.
Dwarf Warrior GW's with 30MA and 24MD are far more compelling than 24MA and 30MD Same could be said for Longbeard GWs at 38MA 30MD vs 30MA 38MD
Still canon, still in-lore, no lore-breaking. You and others fail what makes Dwarfs unique and it's not the lack of monsters or cavalry but their runic magic and engineer skills.
Again, them creating runic constructs is nothing lore-breaking and shackling a murder ferret instead of killing it is also in-lore if you look at their lore and other personality elements apart of GRUDGES. Stuff like...pragmatism? Never occurred that to you?
And Deathrollers for Dwarfs? The Engineers can create them after centuries of field-testing.
The units still exist. Only they are relegated to tomb guarding or collecting dust.
Also can't wait for Dwarfs to get access to all monsters because Storm of Magic expansion allowed everyone to get those. And yes, this would be a 100% with the game because Storm of Magic allowed it. It would be 100% accurate with the game.
Also you still didn't answer my questions in my post.
You clerly haven't read a single line of what i wrote. Or you are not mentaly capable to undestand it, or my english is bad.
Keeping saying "canon" "no lore-breaking" when i killed that horse long post ago. It dosen't exist in the current setting that it, i don't have to exhaust myself to cry it like you because anyone can figure it out by reading the source material. So you can fanfic their comback i you want, but it's a new lore (and a bad one)
And why should i read all the stuff written during my working day ? I've even seen a absurd long post of yours who took a whole page. Who in his right ming would read that ? I hope you don't take to many of your time for it.
I have summary my point multiples times and i don't ask people to look all my history here. If your question were that important you had multiple times to ask them again when i was actualy reading you answer, like... right here !
If i take in consideration all your post i've read, nothing realy fly far, so i don't expect something gamebreaking enough to go back reading all this pages, and i think nobody with self respect for his time did.
Still canon, still in-lore, no lore-breaking. You and others fail what makes Dwarfs unique and it's not the lack of monsters or cavalry but their runic magic and engineer skills.
Again, them creating runic constructs is nothing lore-breaking and shackling a murder ferret instead of killing it is also in-lore if you look at their lore and other personality elements apart of GRUDGES. Stuff like...pragmatism? Never occurred that to you?
And Deathrollers for Dwarfs? The Engineers can create them after centuries of field-testing.
The units still exist. Only they are relegated to tomb guarding or collecting dust.
Also can't wait for Dwarfs to get access to all monsters because Storm of Magic expansion allowed everyone to get those. And yes, this would be a 100% with the game because Storm of Magic allowed it. It would be 100% accurate with the game.
Also you still didn't answer my questions in my post.
You clerly haven't read a single line of what i wrote. Or you are not mentaly capable to undestand it, or my english is bad.
Keeping saying "canon" "no lore-breaking" when i killed that horse long post ago. It dosen't exist in the current setting that it, i don't have to exhaust myself to cry it like you because anyone can figure it out by reading the source material. So you can fanfic their comback i you want, but it's a new lore (and a bad one)
And why should i read all the stuff written during my working day ? I've even seen a absurd long post of yours who took a whole page. Who in his right ming would read that ? I hope you don't take to many of your time for it.
I have summary my point multiples times and i don't ask people to look all my history here. If your question were that important you had multiple times to ask them again when i was actualy reading you answer, like... right here !
If i take in consideration all your post i've read, nothing realy fly far, so i don't expect something gamebreaking enough to go back reading all this pages, and i think nobody with self respect for his time did.
RPGs are canon. CA uses the RPGs (especially the 2nd ED from which the Rune Guardians originate). You didn't kill any horse. The horse is fine.
And still you didn't answer my questions. Where in the books it is said they can't have any of these. Show me exactly where. Nowhere. They were never given a no.
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
That's ridiculous dude.
Giving the Dwarfs 2 freaking monstrous infantry sized units would NOT break the game or anything.
You lore guys just need to calm down and let go of the idea that the games should be 100% lore accurate.
Dude i'm confused. Who do you csll lore guys? Both sides claim lore is on their side lol.
I devoured any material dwarf related and haven't even heard the word "golem" apart from a WoV story which is ancient history. But pretty sure norse dwarfs would be interested in this golem theory though. Do knock on their door if you can locate it
Why the hell do so many people want to homogenize the Dwarfs into being like other factions instead of just playing the Dwarfs for the STRENGTHS THEY HAVE and getting good at them?
It's OK to learn more than one play style. Just like we didn't need Norsca to be map painters -- but all the QQ took away a unique and cool playstyle.
All this crap will, too.
WTF do you even play a game with a bajillion factions if you want them all to be the same???
That's rhetorical, don't bother answering. I already know why. And I am disappointed in you lot.
That's ridiculous dude.
Giving the Dwarfs 2 freaking monstrous infantry sized units would NOT break the game or anything.
You lore guys just need to calm down and let go of the idea that the games should be 100% lore accurate.
Dude i'm confused. Who do you csll lore guys? Both sides claim lore is on their side lol.
I devoured any material dwarf related and haven't even heard the word "golem" apart from a WoV story which is ancient history. But pretty sure norse dwarfs would be interested in this golem theory though. Do knock on their door if you can locate it
Did you read older Warhammer RPGs and the War of Vengeance trilogy? Not to mention that in very old lore when Dwarfs didn't have runic magic they did have golems mentioned passively in their stuff.
And still you didn't answer my questions. Where in the books it is said they can't have any of these. Show me exactly where. Nowhere. They were never given a no.
Comments
I just think that some of these guys who are against the dwarfs getting them are so ridiculous because they act like it's going to destroy not only the dwarfs but the entire game as a whole if they get these like 2 units.
It actually kind of makes me laugh.
- Report
2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeThem possibly getting the Rune Guardians and Golems will hardly turn the dwarfs into a monster focused army.
It'll just give them something a fair bit sturdier than Slayers to help them deal with giant monsters and such a bit more easily.
- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
1 · 3Disagree 1Agree- Report
2 · Disagree 2AgreeThough I do think that the GW dwarf infantry don't really need a ton of MD, but a fair bit more MA to make using them aggressively be far more of an option.
The Dwarf infantry should be a real case of quality over quantity.
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0 · Disagree AgreeBesides as it is you can hire units from other rosters by getting outposts. Dogs of War are very likely going to be an "ogre mercenary" style mercenary mechanic (and you can also still hire ogre mercs from their camps...).
There is NO need for this nonsense. You already have access to this stuff via allied shenanigans. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Dwarf faction.
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0 · 3Disagree AgreeThere is NO need for this nonsense. There is no reason to dilute and sully the Greenskin faction.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThe problem with the whole DoW bringing in an expanded mercenary system would be that it would do that very "diluting and sullying" the dwarf faction stuff you're against.
And besides, the Rune Golems and Guardians would be powerful late game units that you can't really just gain tons of access to super quickly. Yeah, some ogre mercenaries might help out, but they'll hardly ALWAYS be around in plentiful numbers.
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0 · Disagree AgreeNothing lore-breaking here.
Same for if Dwarfs invented the Deathroller from Blood Bowl in mainline Warhammer Fantasy because that would be the result of their engineer skills and pragmatism.
Also nothing lore-breaking here.
Maybe you are also against Witch Hunters of Gazul or Doomstones too?
Not to mention that with the allied Outpost mechanic Thorek's Yolked Carnosaur looses on his uniqueness when each army will have 4 Carnosaurs each.
Sorry, but you and similar people actually fail at what makes Dwarfs unique.
Edit: Also mercs would be the actual thing that would dilute Dwarfs because then they'd be hiring tons of better units that aren't their own.
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0 · Disagree Agree"During the War of Vengeance, the "old magic" that had empowered the Rune Golems had begun to sink deeper into the earth, out of the reach of any Runelord"
War of Vengeance is the first stone of Dwarf empire downfall (The lost of Rune Golem is a symptom of their downfall, important in a narrative perspective) and it's -2000 until -1600 before the coronation of frikkin Sigmar.
And even then it was a impossible task, but one guy...
The last one able to command them was Ranuld Silverthumb, the Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak, and even he needed the aid of other Runelords to fully awaken them. The act of attempting to animate the slumbering Golems and use them in the war alone turned him into stone.
The "Last One", do you know the word "Last" ? Karl Franz coronation is 2502...The last guy who could was more than 3000 years before the game setting and it seem it was already a disaster.
This many years maybe that why nobody talk about that in all the others Warhammer sources outside this.
Your conclusion : All current Karak have Rune Golem ready to go in their garage, are totaly able to do it when they want, just kill a runelord
Sry realy i will stop to be rude, i realise i'm probably bullying kids, it's not possible otherwise. You said "could" but as now they aren't. And for a reason, the narrative point in that is obvious for anyone who already opened a book.
Yes if they re-write all the lore your way it could, it's called a "retcon", i've say that world right in my post but you didn't understood it
TWW is an adaptation of the tabletop and his lore, in lore the unit didn't exist anymore, you say it "could be" with re-writing, but as it is now it's not.
CA do some writing (Cathay, narrative campaign), some adaptations (Using V6 material instead V8 etc) but they're not re-writing the setting that much (Only exemple i can think is Sartosa turned into a undead faction. Aranesa have taking it over)
So yes, yes if they write things YOUR way it could happen, but with this everything can happen, how is this even an argument for you ?
Like, the anciens, they are canon, they fleed the planet and Lizardmen wait for them to come back. So they could do, so why not ? Why about writing stuff, like: "they are coming back, powerfull as a Nagash, telling Lizardmen what to do" ?
But will it still be warhammer Lizardmen ? Their all point is to manage their creator vision without them, figuring out their way with sign, prophecy, visions and ancien writting, fighting each other about who have the best interpretation. Basicaly, lost childs
This comeback screw their lore hard
It's the same for dwarf (and elve). They were the main powerhouse in this world, humans were basicaly monkey, they could do insane magic stuff like rune golem. But destiny, war of vengence, and other stuff, their are now fallen. Nostalgic of a former glory, they try to manage their way, fighting hard to keep what remain
You : Screw that they struggle in multiplayer and i want the toys they lost back and too bad for their narrative
You keep saying "they could change all the lore", i say in the current lore they are not a thing, and this kind of new writting is a bad idea.
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3 · Disagree 3AgreeI don't understand why the Dwarfs are any different than these other factions except for complaints of "They're just so Bad" by a vocal few.
No matter how much you say "perhaps the Dwarfs should be Good at the things they're supposed to be Good at and what they are supposed to be Good at and what they are Good at should be Good in the game especially when done by a faction that Excels at it." They keep saying NO... The Dwarfs should do something other than what they are good at because the what the dwarfs do well isn't good in the game because CA "cant balance it right".
These people just suck... they are effectively openly advocating that a deficiency in the game that effects multiple factions should be ignored and instead some band-aid should be applied to the dwarfs so they can perform better, even if that makes them un-Dwarfy.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeAnd those things shouldn't be in plentiful numbers.
Your mocking counter arguments are as twisted and feeble as an old woman.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeAgain, them creating runic constructs is nothing lore-breaking and shackling a murder ferret instead of killing it is also in-lore if you look at their lore and other personality elements apart of GRUDGES. Stuff like...pragmatism? Never occurred that to you?
And Deathrollers for Dwarfs? The Engineers can create them after centuries of field-testing.
The units still exist. Only they are relegated to tomb guarding or collecting dust.
Also can't wait for Dwarfs to get access to all monsters because Storm of Magic expansion allowed everyone to get those. And yes, this would be a 100% with the game because Storm of Magic allowed it. It would be 100% accurate with the game.
Also you still didn't answer my questions in my post.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeThe low survivability is especially visible on Gyros - even goblin archers could take that thing down. In TWW3 with all the towers and shooting factions around, Gyros will pop. Tried to use them from the outpost in my Kislev campaigns, but they just can't stand any amount of fire.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeI for one am completely in favor of a mercenary mechanic for some races that would logically use them, as it would help some races, such as the dwarfs, be able to cover their weaknesses, if only in a limited way.
And I guess you missed the part where I said the Rune Guardians and Golems would be high end units, which would probably be pretty expensive.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeDwarf Warrior GW's with 30MA and 24MD are far more compelling than 24MA and 30MD
Same could be said for Longbeard GWs at 38MA 30MD vs 30MA 38MD
Interestingly enough Hammerers are 46MA 38MD
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0 · Disagree AgreeKeeping saying "canon" "no lore-breaking" when i killed that horse long post ago. It dosen't exist in the current setting that it, i don't have to exhaust myself to cry it like you because anyone can figure it out by reading the source material. So you can fanfic their comback i you want, but it's a new lore (and a bad one)
And why should i read all the stuff written during my working day ? I've even seen a absurd long post of yours who took a whole page. Who in his right ming would read that ? I hope you don't take to many of your time for it.
I have summary my point multiples times and i don't ask people to look all my history here. If your question were that important you had multiple times to ask them again when i was actualy reading you answer, like... right here !
If i take in consideration all your post i've read, nothing realy fly far, so i don't expect something gamebreaking enough to go back reading all this pages, and i think nobody with self respect for his time did.
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1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeAnd still you didn't answer my questions. Where in the books it is said they can't have any of these. Show me exactly where. Nowhere. They were never given a no.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI devoured any material dwarf related and haven't even heard the word "golem" apart from a WoV story which is ancient history. But pretty sure norse dwarfs would be interested in this golem theory though. Do knock on their door if you can locate it
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0 · Disagree AgreeLook, you play Dwarves because you love the lore of them, or you like their playstyle.
You don't change them to match every other faction. That's Shogun 2. This is Warhammer.
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2 · 2Disagree 2AgreeAnd if you trouble to read it, i've done half the job for damon40000
And with this sources you keep coming saying dwarf still currently operate Golem in their army ? You are a lost cause. They can't.
For this it need re-writing, and this re-writing exist for now only in your mind
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