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I think CD, Khuresh and Ind are all we are getting for race packs.

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  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question. If you have difficulties understanding the dialogue, I will be happy to help or even translate. The "listening" part of the exams was always the most difficult, back when I was learning English.

    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    And Andy Specifically says 'I'm not mentioning the names' when he confirms their status. I think we have already had this conversation were you consistently get things wrong, start questioning people's comprehension, just before you get corrected by multiple people. Learning English is a journey, you've still got someway to go. Also, you seem to have missed the part where Andy said he refuses to look at fan art in reference to Khuresh just in case it impacts his future work.

    I know, your little misguided rants about the monos was probably a little embarrassing for you, sorry (not sorry) for bringing them up. I suggest just learning from past mistakes rather than having your usual temper tantrum.
    Come on, Dave, you know I don't bite at personal references. That stuff only results in you getting those cute prison bars in front of your avatar. I also recognise that I don't speak English very well (not many opportunities for that in al-Awamiyah), so I'm not going to get provoked.

    Anyway, your claim was that Khuresh, which was singled out from Ind and Nippon, was not rejected by CA and was not mentioned in the interview. That was proved to be incorrect. So, it's over. Now you're trying to desperately to shift the goalposts, but that's not convincing. As I'm not interested in bad faith discussion, you can either find the courage to admit your mistake or simply end the debate.

    Cheers.


  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 21,372

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    We had this when he insisted we would only be getting the monos in game three. People tried to explain that the game is expanding and things can change over a six year period but, all we got was "The Russian leak says 4 monos and so that's what we are getting". No attempt to engage with further evidence or even consider something different could possibly happen. Trust me, you are wasting your time engaging.
  • destroyer67115destroyer67115 Registered Users Posts: 1,357

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    We had this when we insisted we would only be getting the monos in game three. People tried to explain that the game is expanding and things can change over a six year period but, all we got was "The Russian leak says 4 monos and so that's what we are getting". No attempt to engage with further evidence or even consider something different could possibly happen. Trust me, you are wasting your time engaging.
    Mfw in two years they're all bellyaching Over new "fake factions with barely any lore" get released.

    Snakies and ind are pretty obvious atm..

    The water around ind and Khuresh isn't even traversable at the moment which means it's not even added for ocean navigation.
  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649
    Dave, please don't lie. I said we would be getting Kislev and the monos. If you believe otherwise, feel free to quote the relevant post. You're now acting like Ephraim Dalton, unless of course you're his alt.

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    I'm just stating facts. CA has been pretty clear on this regard. Can their plans change? Yes, sure, everything is subject to change, after all, but the hopes for Khuresh, Ind and Nippon are very dim. With all due respect, you seem to disagree with me, because you find it inconvenient and not unconvincing.


  • 1v0#35621v0#3562 Registered Users Posts: 2,330
    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).
    Question:Presumably you’ve needed to create a huge number of new Daemon units to properly flesh them out and give them their own armies?
    Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301

    Dave, please don't lie. I said we would be getting Kislev and the monos. If you believe otherwise, feel free to quote the relevant post. You're now acting like Ephraim Dalton, unless of course you're his alt.

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    I'm just stating facts. CA has been pretty clear on this regard. Can their plans change? Yes, sure, everything is subject to change, after all, but the hopes for Khuresh, Ind and Nippon are very dim. With all due respect, you seem to disagree with me, because you find it inconvenient and not unconvincing.
    You stated one fact, and I engaged with it. I stated four, and you engaged with only one.
    Seems to be that you're the one ignoring what's inconvenient to your argument.
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649

    Dave, please don't lie. I said we would be getting Kislev and the monos. If you believe otherwise, feel free to quote the relevant post. You're now acting like Ephraim Dalton, unless of course you're his alt.

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    I'm just stating facts. CA has been pretty clear on this regard. Can their plans change? Yes, sure, everything is subject to change, after all, but the hopes for Khuresh, Ind and Nippon are very dim. With all due respect, you seem to disagree with me, because you find it inconvenient and not unconvincing.
    You stated one fact, and I engaged with it. I stated four, and you engaged with only one.
    Seems to be that you're the one ignoring what's inconvenient to your argument.
    The difference is that I quoted a clear CA statement. Your facts are merely speculative interpretations, which happen to confirm your desire. By that logic, we should expect Turkestan, Switzerland and Indonesian sultanates in Empire.


  • destroyer67115destroyer67115 Registered Users Posts: 1,357
    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    Southern kingdoms aren't on the map either.

    Rip DOW.

    They already said they're doing minicampaigns again. So it could be they have a mini campaign.


    Or they extend the map as has been done multiple times.

    They already moved the map west in ROC and added like 4 provinces.
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,758
    Chaos Dwarfs are the only ones I have real confidence in.

    I'm sure we're getting at least one more besides the Chaos Dwarfs.

    But it becomes tremendously difficult to pick one with any meaningful degree of confidence. It seems like Chaos Dwarfs.....and then.....well....a wash.

    DoW: Has an older edition armybook and some hints, but has also been frequently skipped over in favor of expanding/creating obscure new stuff instead; even when better opportunities to add DoW were available in the past. And has also had many of it's notable features co-opted by other Races.

    Nagash: Probably the most frequently and heavily hinted option. But definitely less clear what the roster or implementation would look like in a clear cut manner. The character himself seems more likely than any guaranteed 'Race'. Even a 'Daniel of the Undead' would seem like a hard pack to sell. So while Nagash is very likely coming, it's less clear that a Nagash 'Race' is coming.

    Ind/Khuresh/Araby/Nippon: There's land available. EASY potential for a unique roster, lords, and mechanics. But it would need GW approval (not hard to come by) and CA has proactively de-confirmed these as options. So while they might be qualified candidates, CA for some reason just doesn't seem interested in doing them. Or if CA is interested in doing them, they don't seem interested in admitting it.

    Hobgoblins: The best thing going for them really, is that they are what's left that hasn't been specifically deconfirmed or skipped over. They have less hints than the other candidates. They have less armybook material and less referenced lore than most of these others. They would also need GW approval for an expansion, but with less clear consensus on an ideal direction for identity and themes available compared to other potentially expandable Races. So in every other metric, they seem less likely than their potential rivals.

    *^But they haven't been deconfirmed or skipped over. Which is surprisingly, more of an edge than what it might appear when calculating probability.

    TL;DR:

    It's Chaos Dwarfs for sure. And then....Somebody.

    I don't think anyone else stands out in a clearly decisive way. I obviously have my favorites. Araby, Ind, Nagash. But I can't even confidently say that my favorites are more or less likely than others by any wide margin.

    Once Chaos Dwarfs and Somebody are in........then that might be it. The only way we get 'Somebody Else' after Somebody, is if the DLC's sell well and the playerbase stays at a healthy number for an extended period of time. Which only time will tell on that front.
  • Bloodydagger#9716Bloodydagger#9716 Registered Users Posts: 4,718
    SerPus said:

    Both continents are starring at us in our faces.

    So is Araby.
    Araby has political controversy connected to them. Ind and Khuresh don't.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 21,372

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question. If you have difficulties understanding the dialogue, I will be happy to help or even translate. The "listening" part of the exams was always the most difficult, back when I was learning English.

    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    And Andy Specifically says 'I'm not mentioning the names' when he confirms their status. I think we have already had this conversation were you consistently get things wrong, start questioning people's comprehension, just before you get corrected by multiple people. Learning English is a journey, you've still got someway to go. Also, you seem to have missed the part where Andy said he refuses to look at fan art in reference to Khuresh just in case it impacts his future work.

    I know, your little misguided rants about the monos was probably a little embarrassing for you, sorry (not sorry) for bringing them up. I suggest just learning from past mistakes rather than having your usual temper tantrum.
    Come on, Dave, you know I don't bite at personal references. That stuff only results in you getting those cute prison bars in front of your avatar. I also recognise that I don't speak English very well (not many opportunities for that in al-Awamiyah), so I'm not going to get provoked.

    Anyway, your claim was that Khuresh, which was singled out from Ind and Nippon, was not rejected by CA and was not mentioned in the interview. That was proved to be incorrect. So, it's over. Now you're trying to desperately to shift the goalposts, but that's not convincing. As I'm not interested in bad faith discussion, you can either find the courage to admit your mistake or simply end the debate.

    Cheers.
    Coming from the guy who has trouble communicating but still sees fit to question the communication abilities of others? Let’s also not pretend that you don’t get your posts modified and deleted by mods on a regular basis.

    Also, avoid asking people to admit their mistake when your idea of dealing with mistakes involves selective memory failure of what you actually said.

    When a guy says ‘I’m not specifically stating the races that I mean’ there is room for differing opinion on details rather than attempting to make an objective or nothing argument.

    Ah yes, you said we could well get Kislev as a pre order pack which is a little different wouldn’t you say? There’s that selective memory I was talking about.

    As I argued, it was likely we would get a balance of good guys as part of the core line up. This conclusion came from looking at how popular the good guys were and the fact CA were obviously expending the trilogy.
  • Eye_of_SauronEye_of_Sauron Registered Users Posts: 390
    Chaos Dwarfs and Legion of Nagash are the two races with 90% of chance to get added.

    The rest is still an enigma.
    #JusticeForTzeentch #TzeentchLivesMatter #JusticeForMonogods


  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301
    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • destroyer67115destroyer67115 Registered Users Posts: 1,357

    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    So jade blooded vampire race pack confirmed?
  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301

    Dave, please don't lie. I said we would be getting Kislev and the monos. If you believe otherwise, feel free to quote the relevant post. You're now acting like Ephraim Dalton, unless of course you're his alt.

    Dave has no clue about the issue. Ind, Nippon and Khuresh were explicitly rejected:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer-3/ind-nippon-khuresh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nOhfmyZ2UOA&t=4837s

    Jerroser said:

    Chaos Dwarfs are really they only one that's in anyway a certainty. I would probably rate DoW to be the next most likely but Ind and Khursh are still very in the "maybe but don't get your hopes up" category.

    Well, CA said probably never, so, wishful thinking aside, their hopes are basically nonexistent. Considering that companies, including CA, refrain from being 100% absolute, "probably never" is the most definitive rejection you can ever get.
    Same old arguments. ‘Muuuuuh we are getting monos and nothing else because a 6 year old leak says so’. How did that turn out?

    In the Sotek stream Andy specifically said Nippon and Ind, in the IT stream he refused to name them. It’s not his fault the magazine writer names Khuresh.

    And this idea, that as the DLCs continue to sell, CA won’t even think about taking advantage of those huge landmasses they have created is rather silly.

    How many times do you have to get it wrong before this dubious sense of certainty about future releases becomes a little more realistic?
    Did you watch the video? He mentions Khuresh twice (1:20:31 and 1:20:49) in that specific question.
    The rest of the rant was cute, but a tad inaccurate and irrelevant.
    You just can't stop doomsaying new races can you? So Andy said no before, great, point taken.

    Now be a sport and take the counterpoints:

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW.
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh
    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game)

    Nothing is guaranteed to happen besides CD at this point, but nothing is guaranteed to not happen either (admittedly except Araby)

    I do hope that you will be fair in this discussion.
    I'm just stating facts. CA has been pretty clear on this regard. Can their plans change? Yes, sure, everything is subject to change, after all, but the hopes for Khuresh, Ind and Nippon are very dim. With all due respect, you seem to disagree with me, because you find it inconvenient and not unconvincing.
    You stated one fact, and I engaged with it. I stated four, and you engaged with only one.
    Seems to be that you're the one ignoring what's inconvenient to your argument.
    The difference is that I quoted a clear CA statement. Your facts are merely speculative interpretations, which happen to confirm your desire. By that logic, we should expect Turkestan, Switzerland and Indonesian sultanates in Empire.
    So you've chosen to discuss in bad faith, dave was right about you.

    Still, I'll respond.

    1. CA have changed their plans before, many times - FACT: Cathay was not in original leak, for example.
    2. Cathay exists both in TW and Old World, which means Far East is being worked on actively by GW. - FACT - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/18/grand-cathay-is-mapped-for-the-first-time-in-warhammer-the-old-world/
    3. The MOST RECENT comment from CA on new races was completely non-committal, and was followed by a hint from a Lead Designer for Khuresh - FACT

    4. The landmasses are in the game and they are HUGE (watch GBOG's video to see the size in game) - FACT: Time stamp: 2:12


    Speculative interpretations indeed...
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301

    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    So jade blooded vampire race pack confirmed?
    I'm sorry, I don't follow XD
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • destroyer67115destroyer67115 Registered Users Posts: 1,357

    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    So jade blooded vampire race pack confirmed?
    I'm sorry, I don't follow XD
    They're available to be on the base map
  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301

    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    So jade blooded vampire race pack confirmed?
    I'm sorry, I don't follow XD
    They're available to be on the base map
    Haha, yeah they might well be the Vampire Coast of this game lol.

    Seriously though I do hope we see them represented in some way, they're cool in their own way.
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649
    @Wood_Sprite

    I'll be more clear, in regards to some of your points.

    Firstly, the map is irrelevant, as it's actually older than CA's statement. Don't forget that the extent of the map was already included in the game files and also included Khuresh and Ind. So, their inclusion in IE is indicative of absolutely nothing.

    Secondly, CA does change its plans. For example, the Slavs were added in Attila, because of popular demand. Charlemagne was supposed to be the last DLC. Is there however anything that could allow us to speculate that CA has changed its plans? To interpret the vague remark you mentioned as a hint?

    Not really. Quite the opposite, in fact. Since Warhammer's release, its retention rate has experienced an unprecedented collapse and the game is the most negatively reviewed of the trilogy. So, why would CA change so dramatically its plans? Maybe WH3 will recover, maybe it will turn out to be a huge success, encouraging CA to milk it by adding previously unplanned factions. Right now, however, the situation is clear. No plans for Ind, Nippon and Khuresh.

    I don't have a horse on the race. I don't care if Khuresh is added or not. What I'm just trying to do here is to explain that the wishful thinking regarding these exotic factions is unfounded and, given the current circumstances, it will almost certainly lead into disappointment. Keep also in mind also that, although you are honest, not everybody here debates in good faith. A classic tactic of many of our regular members is to generate hype and then enjoy the subsequent rage, when the unrealistic expectations are contradicted by reality.


  • Wood_Sprite#1284Wood_Sprite#1284 Registered Users Posts: 301

    @Wood_Sprite

    I'll be more clear, in regards to some of your points.

    Firstly, the map is irrelevant, as it's actually older than CA's statement. Don't forget that the extent of the map was already included in the game files and also included Khuresh and Ind. So, their inclusion in IE is indicative of absolutely nothing.

    Secondly, CA does change its plans. For example, the Slavs were added in Attila, because of popular demand. Charlemagne was supposed to be the last DLC. Is there however anything that could allow us to speculate that CA has changed its plans? To interpret the vague remark you mentioned as a hint?

    Not really. Quite the opposite, in fact. Since Warhammer's release, its retention rate has experienced an unprecedented collapse and the game is the most negatively reviewed of the trilogy. So, why would CA change so dramatically its plans? Maybe WH3 will recover, maybe it will turn out to be a huge success, encouraging CA to milk it by adding previously unplanned factions. Right now, however, the situation is clear. No plans for Ind, Nippon and Khuresh.

    I don't have a horse on the race. I don't care if Khuresh is added or not. What I'm just trying to do here is to explain that the wishful thinking regarding these exotic factions is unfounded and, given the current circumstances, it will almost certainly lead into disappointment. Keep also in mind also that, although you are honest, not everybody here debates in good faith. A classic tactic of many of our regular members is to generate hype and then enjoy the subsequent rage, when the unrealistic expectations are contradicted by reality.

    Hey man, I appreciate the solid answer. And you're right about people mismanaging their expectations ofc, but then that's a choice we can't make for them.

    What we can do is try and find common ground. You basically said that I'm making predictions based on whatever info is available to me. You're right, and I'm very aware of that fact (hence my constant attempts to get the tech limitation of map expansion addressed in Rally Points).

    My point is that you're in the same boat. You mention that the map was final before any questions about races were answered. This is correct, and apart from your interpretation above, another way to look at it is that CA already knows that these new races will come, so they allowed ample space for them on the map. I know they said no in an earlier interview, but they are contractually obligated to keep their mouth shut on unannounced GW content, just like the relationship between Youtubers and CA. This is the main reason why I can't take that word as gospel.

    There is no way to answer a direct question about Eastern races except with a No if you're under NDA. You can't even say "no comment" as that will undoubtedly be considered a Yes by anyone. CA loses nothing by saying No before and retracting it later. They have done so before in this trilogy (Vampire Coast, DLC for DLC).

    I think what we can agree on is that Chaos Dwarfs are defiitely coming, but beyond that is a big question mark, with no way to gainsay any race over another - they all have things working for and against them. So we need to wait and see, and engage in fun speculation along the way!
    My optimistic predictions:

    RoC map will get expanded.
    Ind and Khuresh will get added to the game.
    CA will support the game for more than 5 years.


    VOTE FOR MORE TREES ON CAMPAIGN MAP
    - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/320355/more-foliage-models-for-the-campaign-map
  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649
    Τhanks bro, I appreciate the civilised dialogue, too! I see your point, but I don't think CA would give such a definitive answer. There are many ways to express your refusal to comment in a more diplomatic manner. It's not a rare marketing tactic to surprise your clients by presenting them with something they had no hope for, but, from my experience, CA's modus operandi, which is rather conservative, refrains from such methods.

    I think there's hope for Khuresh, if WH3 surpasses CA's expectations (so far the signs are not that promising, but the IE map may fix it, we shall see) and if there's a huge movement in favour of that faction. Similar to the Slavs. I'm not sure if you were active back then, but there was a massive demand for those guys. It surprised me a lot. However, I'm personally sure that at least the initial plans of CA didn't include these three factions.

    One of the reasons I failed to predict the Ogres and Cathay was that it left no good candidates for the second DLC race (I don't mean that Khuresh/Ind/Nippon are objectively worse, just that they are overall less popular than the Ogres and Cathay).

    It still perplexes me. One of my theory, based on a very reliable reddit leak, is that CoC was originally designed as the first race pack, as its price and number of lords indicate. Alternatively, CA could sell Nagash as a different race. DoW is also possible, but what troubles me is that they would have been a better faction for a pre-order bait, instead of the Ogres. Anyway, I understand that neither of these scenarios looks very nice to someone that wants an as rich game as possible, but I believe in them, because I consider them the most probable, not because I hate WH or human society or whatever. Hopefully I'm too pessimist.

    Cheers.


  • Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157Fingolfin_the-Golden#2157 Registered Users Posts: 6,646

    1v0 said:

    I don't think we will get Ind and Khuresh - to put it short - if they add them as DLCs there will not be a palce for them on the race for the souls map = they won't add them.
    But I do expect Chaos dwarfs (that are leak confirmed). Maybe even Dogs of War.

    As for what they will put in the empty space in IE - I expect 1 Chaos Dwarfs LL and maybe placeholders and stuff like that...

    I simply can't see them addin Ind and Khuresh - maybe they will be there as part of Dogs of war (with the dreamed araby).

    I understand that your argument depends on whether or not RoC map can expand its borders (not just some rearrangement). Honestly I've asked this question in very specific terms (map borders) in literally every Rally Point, and I never got an answer. I'll keep trying though.

    For now, RoC does have the northern part of Ind in it, but admittedly nothing from Khuresh.

    Here's what I'm thinking though - consider what goes the current RoC map has space for.

    1. Southern Realms - No. I know that people like to say DoW is separate from that but let's be fair, Tilea etc are a major part of that army book, with several LLs from there.
    2. Eastern Steppes - No. The only province is already occupied.
    3. Southern and Eastern Cathay - No. This is where at least 3 LLs are supposed to be (2 dragons and Monkey King). I can see one of them moved to other parts of the map, but all three?
    4. Nagashizzar - No.

    As you can see, there will be severe map gymnastics needed to add even one more race apart from CD on RoC map, not to mention the Cathay LLs.

    I think that CA will want to add more races, whichever ones they may be. And the best way to add them to RoC is to expand its borders. I don't think we can assume that old limitations in terms of map-expansion tech still applies, which is why I'll keep asking that question so we can have a clear answer.
    So jade blooded vampire race pack confirmed?
    I don’t think it is?
    BEARS, Beets, Battlestar Galactica 🧝‍♀️ Pandas too please CA!
  • BeargodBeargod Registered Users Posts: 452
    edited August 14
    Ind and khuresh are 99% coming. why else add their landmass to the game? CA has warped maps in the past and now they just add them for them to remain empty? i dont buy it.

  • LordSolarMach#5538LordSolarMach#5538 Registered Users Posts: 2,297

    Araby has political controversy connected to them. Ind and Khuresh don't.

    We have nothing to suggest that GW doesn't want to do Araby because of political controversy over that nation's past depictions. (No more than we're not getting Southlanders due to Pygmies.) On the other hand, I fully expect Chaos Dwarfs despite having observed accusations against them (that they fall into anti-semitic tropes).

    It's also hard to say what will generate political controversy. There's certainly a lot of it in India at the moment (which is beyond the scope of this board) and it wouldn't be hard for GW to step on someone's toes.

    //

    Ultimately, two things are telling:
    1. A new Campaign Pack needs to fit its lords onto both the IE map as well as the RoC map. While Ind and Khuresh have plenty of room on the IE map, they're absent from the RoC. (Or CA needs to return to doing packs with two lords and custom campaign maps - which is possible, and the best hope.)
    2. While you can argue that Andy Hall might not have been referring to a particular faction when he said that we were "probably never" going to see them, he also said that GW creating Cathay for them was "a coup" that we were unlikely to see repeated. And GW would need to do likewise for Ind, Khuresh, Nippon, Southlanders, Fishmen, etc. So that's a big point against.
  • kaiki_utokyo#9006kaiki_utokyo#9006 Registered Users Posts: 500
    CD, Khuresh and DoW if you ask me.
  • General_Hijalti#1213General_Hijalti#1213 Registered Users Posts: 5,421
    PPerun said:

    Lore wise Ind and Khuresh are indeed unlikely but map wise they are obvious candidates. So who knows? And on top of that there is CA who told us to expect unexpected races coming.

    Basing on how CA treats Chaos, my prediction is that at some point we will either get packs with minor races or one big dlc (possibly advertised with DoW) to make custom factions and containing skins of snake people, tiger men, amazons, etc

    Map wide they have to be on the Realm of Chaos map. Which they aren't
  • Sheikh_Nimr#9382Sheikh_Nimr#9382 Riyadh, Saudi ArabiaRegistered Users Posts: 1,649
    Yeah, the political controversy argument is absurd. CA released a game full of jihads and crusades in the heart of the Iraq and Afghan conflicts and just one year after the London attack. Araby was dismissed, because it's not popular. That's what matters, when CA chooses the factions and the settings of its games: their eminence in modern popular culture. Political/historical/lore considerations have an extremely marginal impact.


  • LordCommander#3741LordCommander#3741 Registered Users Posts: 3,218
    Beargod said:

    Ind and khuresh are 99% coming. why else add their landmass to the game? CA has warped maps in the past and now they just add them for them to remain empty? i dont buy it.

    To play Devil's Advocate, why have Araby, Tilea and Estalia on the map if they don't have fleshed out playable races? Ind and Khuresh would have made a very inelegent map had they been cut out. Personally I think we'll see them as exploration and adventuring areas for a DoW race, with a smattering of existing races. I'm not against Ind and Khuresh as playable races but I think it's unlikely.
    It's a beta.
  • Grba#3181Grba#3181 Registered Users Posts: 563
    I just hope that we ain't getting Jade Blooded as faction, if they should ever come,then only as part of Cathay DLC...

  • Makuhico#8254Makuhico#8254 Registered Users Posts: 411

    Araby has political controversy connected to them. Ind and Khuresh don't.

    We have nothing to suggest that GW doesn't want to do Araby because of political controversy over that nation's past depictions. (No more than we're not getting Southlanders due to Pygmies.) On the other hand, I fully expect Chaos Dwarfs despite having observed accusations against them (that they fall into anti-semitic tropes).

    It's also hard to say what will generate political controversy. There's certainly a lot of it in India at the moment (which is beyond the scope of this board) and it wouldn't be hard for GW to step on someone's toes.

    //

    Ultimately, two things are telling:
    1. A new Campaign Pack needs to fit its lords onto both the IE map as well as the RoC map. While Ind and Khuresh have plenty of room on the IE map, they're absent from the RoC. (Or CA needs to return to doing packs with two lords and custom campaign maps - which is possible, and the best hope.)
    2. While you can argue that Andy Hall might not have been referring to a particular faction when he said that we were "probably never" going to see them, he also said that GW creating Cathay for them was "a coup" that we were unlikely to see repeated. And GW would need to do likewise for Ind, Khuresh, Nippon, Southlanders, Fishmen, etc. So that's a big point against.
    Actually factions with very little lore like Ind and Kuresh have a great set of advantages since we know people will be excited to buy them.

    The royalties for make this factions into the game will be cheaper than buy the royalties from for DoW for example, it is possible that they bought 8th rights manly hence they focus in 8th edition more and for make factions outside 8th edition they have to pay more to GW and we know GW is greedy.

    You can imagine that CD (they will come because fan support) is expensier in regarding licensing than kuresh since kuresh is basically a name couple of minis and few lines in the Lore. Same story with Ind and I think they can get more cash from DLC for factions that they can do (with GW supervision yeah), but I'm sure royalties are way lower since GW has not so many things developed on them.


    Cathay, VC, NuKislev all did great, Araby, Dogs of War, Hobgoblins even Nippon would way expensier in licensing than Ind and Kureshand if they have mainly the rights for 8th edition then every thing is not in 8th edition has another layer of negotiations over it.

    Well I'm not sure about the Licensing deals they had but here can the key.
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