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Bretonnia is being left behind

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Comments

  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,396
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,838
    Earlybird said:

    Bretonnia was a mistake from GW
    They cornered them in a very small setting : knights and peasants hating monsters

    Nothing more is needed.
    Kneel

  • MODIDDLY1#9212MODIDDLY1#9212 Registered Users Posts: 1,268
    What does everyone think of adding a few "bandit" type units that would use a similar mechanic as the WoC mechanic for mixing marked units with lords? Like you would need a bandit lord to lead bandit units without penalties and vice versa?
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    no its just the reality of a game balance loosely based on TT game , grail knights are as stated good at my level they can actually even be better than blood knight depending on how i play that day. yes even the one that has the new buffs in game 3.

    and we already have the grail versions of the two units its literally those two units , they are awsome units but on a straight up cav supriority fight they are not goof.

    i mean generally speaking there is reason why out cavalrying bretonnia is one of the best ways to beat brets in MP.

    and yes i would like them to be lower model count units , but i don't see that happening from CA . may be ror but the whole unit no probably not.

    the real question is where do CA and GW wants bretonnia to be in the future they are and honestly never were THE cavalary faction i don't think that was the case since in TT in 8th ed or is in this game.

    if they actually want to be THE CAVALRY faction they need a actual Monstours cav unit that can fight things like crushers GW or even **** demis or bears cav head on and win.


    if they want to make the current grail knights and make them actually be able to fight these things head on with out messing up the balance of the game and some how grail knights magically out classing both blood knights and chaos knights than they need better support tools , because current bret support tools just are not good and thats the reality

    Or alternative is give them different play styles allow them to branch out on to other paths .


    but as is currently stands apart form few delusional people here in the fourms bretonnia is not the cavalry faction and they kind of sucks. hell they are not even the strongest human cavalry faction thats the empire that was always the empire and in the future thats gonna be KISLEV

    but does that effect your avarage player depends on the player i am pretty sure i can beat the game with recruting a single knight unit. and you could play the camapagin and win with BM before the taurox dlc .

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Cosmic_Lich#1188Cosmic_Lich#1188 Registered Users Posts: 649
    eomat said:

    Stephince said:

    I'm sure everyone will be balanced, tweaked etc in time. They will be prioritising major races that get most of the play time.

    The only problem with that line of thinking is that some factions will be played less due to the state they are in. Eg Bretonnia.
    By The Lady, it's 6th edition abandonment all over again.
    Krabbz said:

    When the cavalry faction doesn’t even have the best cavalry (by far) there is a problem.

    Their infantry sucks (righfully so), their artillery sucks, their magic is okay at best and their cavalry is outclassed by many factions.

    When you look at their roster, Bretonia should have a damn powerful cav.

    Grail Knights in particular need a huge buff.

    IMO, Bretonnia doesn't even have strong magic. They just have two decent Lores. One of which is healing. Prophetesses and Damsels don't have anything unique about them save for the Aura of The Lady... Which is basically the +10% spell resist skill that newer factions get, but with a tiny area of effect.

    Side note; The Blessed Trebuchet building needs to drop to the 4th settlement tier. You get Hippogryphs on the same tier, which makes the Blessed Treb redundant. It also might make up for the fact that it takes 2 turns to recruit the damn thing.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327

    eomat said:

    Stephince said:

    I'm sure everyone will be balanced, tweaked etc in time. They will be prioritising major races that get most of the play time.

    The only problem with that line of thinking is that some factions will be played less due to the state they are in. Eg Bretonnia.
    By The Lady, it's 6th edition abandonment all over again.
    Krabbz said:

    When the cavalry faction doesn’t even have the best cavalry (by far) there is a problem.

    Their infantry sucks (righfully so), their artillery sucks, their magic is okay at best and their cavalry is outclassed by many factions.

    When you look at their roster, Bretonia should have a damn powerful cav.

    Grail Knights in particular need a huge buff.

    IMO, Bretonnia doesn't even have strong magic. They just have two decent Lores. One of which is healing. Prophetesses and Damsels don't have anything unique about them save for the Aura of The Lady... Which is basically the +10% spell resist skill that newer factions get, but with a tiny area of effect.

    Side note; The Blessed Trebuchet building needs to drop to the 4th settlement tier. You get Hippogryphs on the same tier, which makes the Blessed Treb redundant. It also might make up for the fact that it takes 2 turns to recruit the damn thing.
    also they have three generic magic lores so you can not technically buff them to make bret cav better since most of the top cav factions have these lores or custom lores which are better .

    and cranking up the spell mastery to make damsels and prophtess better casters than Slaan and arch mages is the other option.


    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Bloodydagger#9716Bloodydagger#9716 Registered Users Posts: 4,723
  • Nazjax#2857Nazjax#2857 Registered Users Posts: 2,557
    edited August 19
    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,396
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    no its just the reality of a game balance loosely based on TT game , grail knights are as stated good at my level they can actually even be better than blood knight depending on how i play that day. yes even the one that has the new buffs in game 3.

    and we already have the grail versions of the two units its literally those two units , they are awsome units but on a straight up cav supriority fight they are not goof.

    i mean generally speaking there is reason why out cavalrying bretonnia is one of the best ways to beat brets in MP.

    and yes i would like them to be lower model count units , but i don't see that happening from CA . may be ror but the whole unit no probably not.

    the real question is where do CA and GW wants bretonnia to be in the future they are and honestly never were THE cavalary faction i don't think that was the case since in TT in 8th ed or is in this game.

    if they actually want to be THE CAVALRY faction they need a actual Monstours cav unit that can fight things like crushers GW or even **** demis or bears cav head on and win.


    if they want to make the current grail knights and make them actually be able to fight these things head on with out messing up the balance of the game and some how grail knights magically out classing both blood knights and chaos knights than they need better support tools , because current bret support tools just are not good and thats the reality

    Or alternative is give them different play styles allow them to branch out on to other paths .


    but as is currently stands apart form few delusional people here in the fourms bretonnia is not the cavalry faction and they kind of sucks. hell they are not even the strongest human cavalry faction thats the empire that was always the empire and in the future thats gonna be KISLEV

    but does that effect your avarage player depends on the player i am pretty sure i can beat the game with recruting a single knight unit. and you could play the camapagin and win with BM before the taurox dlc .
    Wait they're grail knights? Thought they weren't. Can't check again until the 23rd. T_T
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    Itharus said:

    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    they kind are its just the category of Monstours cav is better than regular cav
    ...

    So you're saying we should have a Grail Knight version of hippogriff riders and royal pegasus riders?
    no its just the reality of a game balance loosely based on TT game , grail knights are as stated good at my level they can actually even be better than blood knight depending on how i play that day. yes even the one that has the new buffs in game 3.

    and we already have the grail versions of the two units its literally those two units , they are awsome units but on a straight up cav supriority fight they are not goof.

    i mean generally speaking there is reason why out cavalrying bretonnia is one of the best ways to beat brets in MP.

    and yes i would like them to be lower model count units , but i don't see that happening from CA . may be ror but the whole unit no probably not.

    the real question is where do CA and GW wants bretonnia to be in the future they are and honestly never were THE cavalary faction i don't think that was the case since in TT in 8th ed or is in this game.

    if they actually want to be THE CAVALRY faction they need a actual Monstours cav unit that can fight things like crushers GW or even **** demis or bears cav head on and win.


    if they want to make the current grail knights and make them actually be able to fight these things head on with out messing up the balance of the game and some how grail knights magically out classing both blood knights and chaos knights than they need better support tools , because current bret support tools just are not good and thats the reality

    Or alternative is give them different play styles allow them to branch out on to other paths .


    but as is currently stands apart form few delusional people here in the fourms bretonnia is not the cavalry faction and they kind of sucks. hell they are not even the strongest human cavalry faction thats the empire that was always the empire and in the future thats gonna be KISLEV

    but does that effect your avarage player depends on the player i am pretty sure i can beat the game with recruting a single knight unit. and you could play the camapagin and win with BM before the taurox dlc .
    Wait they're grail knights? Thought they weren't. Can't check again until the 23rd. T_T
    Royal peg knights are grail knights have perfect vigior.

    Royal hipporgyph knights hava grail knights on top

    Either case they both are not good for cav superiority per say they are good at other things.

    Obviously this changes if you spam 19 of each and Ai has no clue how to handle it.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • pblllrr#9773pblllrr#9773 Registered Users Posts: 293
    This is just a symptom of GW being a garbage company. Bretonnia was completely abandoned for two editions and thus were stuck with an outdated army list. Stuff like Demigryphs should have rightfully been Bretonnian mounts, not Empire.
    As much as the lore presents Bretonnia as a land of magic and mystery their army has absolutely never represented this. Magical beasts? Nowhere to be seen. Fantastical architecture? Left behind in the artwork of the older editions. Knightly valor? It's all grimdark mud & dung because peasants are subhuman or whatever.

    And thanks to being an FLC faction CA has never invested any real budget into them. One of their """""""Legendary Lords""""""" doesn't even have unique voice lines.
    They're horrible in sieges as CA in their infinite wisdom decided that dismounting is simply impossible arcane technology, a lost art last seen in works of the Old Ones such as Total War: Shogun 2. Simply impossible to implement in a modern game. A ridiculous proposition.

    Expecting The Old World to improve them with interesting units? It won't. They'll reuse the old casts, add two or three characters and a generic Lord. That's it.

    CA even claims they're roster complete. Bretonnia is meant to suck and will never get the budget of half of a Lord Pack even. Empire horses being as fast as Bretonnian horses now? Supposed to suck. Bretonnian heraldry being gone? Supposed to suck, who needs that.
  • #387480#387480 Registered Users Posts: 110
    You know what might be cool? Bretonnian navy units. Their navy uses gunpowder, and while there’s no precedence in the lore that I can remember, it makes sense to me that, especially in Lustria and Araby, their navy would go to shore and help fight.
  • Cosmic_Lich#1188Cosmic_Lich#1188 Registered Users Posts: 649
    edited August 20
    pblllrr said:

    Bretonnia was completely abandoned for two editions

    Two editions and a reboot. Let's not forget that they somehow made Bretonnia's lore worse during the End Times. There is debate about Lileath being The Lady is a good thing or not. On one hand, Bretonnia lost independence by being the puppet state of another race's goddess. On the other hand, an Elven Goddess likes humans more.

    Regardless of how you look at that fact, Bretonnia lost what little mystery they had left. The Green Knight? Gilles. Who and what is The Lady? Elven Goddess.
    pblllrr said:


    And thanks to being an FLC faction CA has never invested any real budget into them. One of their """""""Legendary Lords""""""" doesn't even have unique voice lines.

    This is probably the biggest reason Bretonnia needs a paid DLC. Getting actual budget. That FLC Lord, Repanse? Shares the same voice actress as High Elven Archmages.

    Side note, I don't like that Repanse has a unique tech tree. I literally made a mod giving her techs to the others, because it bothered me so much. I don't want to have made a mod.
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346

    You know what might be cool? Bretonnian navy units. Their navy uses gunpowder, and while there’s no precedence in the lore that I can remember, it makes sense to me that, especially in Lustria and Araby, their navy would go to shore and help fight.

    I'm on board with this, and it would be an excellent way to make Alberic the Boring different from his peers. A Bretonnian merchant navy focused expansion, with Alberic being the front runner alongside whatever else they introduce, cracks open a vast amount of possibilites beyond the traditional Knights and inbred peasents. Merchant cast and Mercenaries. That or Outlaws and Brigands. Doubt it comes with naval battles, but Merchant Marines would at least be something.
  • GeorgeTruman#8059GeorgeTruman#8059 Registered Users Posts: 645
    edited August 20
    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
  • #387480#387480 Registered Users Posts: 110
    Helhound said:

    You know what might be cool? Bretonnian navy units. Their navy uses gunpowder, and while there’s no precedence in the lore that I can remember, it makes sense to me that, especially in Lustria and Araby, their navy would go to shore and help fight.

    I'm on board with this, and it would be an excellent way to make Alberic the Boring different from his peers. A Bretonnian merchant navy focused expansion, with Alberic being the front runner alongside whatever else they introduce, cracks open a vast amount of possibilites beyond the traditional Knights and inbred peasents. Merchant cast and Mercenaries. That or Outlaws and Brigands. Doubt it comes with naval battles, but Merchant Marines would at least be something.
    Definitely! Even if they were available to every Bret faction it makes sense for Alberic to have some faction bonus or something for them. That would really give him a niche of his own. I like the Brigands idea as well, even if as just a RoR.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 11,394


    IMO, Bretonnia doesn't even have strong magic. They just have two decent Lores. One of which is healing. Prophetesses and Damsels don't have anything unique about them save for the Aura of The Lady... Which is basically the +10% spell resist skill that newer factions get, but with a tiny area of effect.

    Which was a function of being left in 6th edition, which was THE stingiest edition when it came to magic. If they'd been updated, I'm pretty sure they would have received a few more lore options. Probably Fire, Metal, and Light, since they had those lores in Ravening Hordes.
  • KirGeo#5270KirGeo#5270 Registered Users Posts: 1,123
    Hoping the new TT will update Bretonnia proper and we get a decent DLC for them. Hope we get stuff like the questing beasts as monstrous cavalry.
    We want all the factions Dogs of War, Araby, Ind, Kuresh, Nippon, Hobgoblin Khanate. Milk us CA.
  • CrocketsCrockets Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 148
    No upkeep increase for extra army, FREE knights that still work and THE Best doomstack of hippogryph knights.
    One of the best economy since their last rework and easiest starting campaigns, i don't know what are you talking about.

    Also Legend specifically did a video about knights this week in immortal empires, here is the link:


    In this video he used only Single stack of KOTR to essentially destroy 3 Full stacks of Chaos including chosen without taking a single causality. Keep in mind this is on Very hard battle difficulty. He isn't even using Grail Knights

    People who don't have a freakin idea always complain, now i don't play multiplayer but i know my stuff around campaign. I have over 2000 hours in TW2 campaign mostly on v.hard and legendary and let me tell you if CA doesn't change bretonnia even 1 percent they are still going to be one of the Strongest faction when played by a player who know what to do.
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346
    Won't deny the efficacy of Bret cavalry when used properly, but I would never use the upkeep bug as an excuse as to why Bretonnia is currently strong enough. Free Knights is a bug, and a **** one at that, and it can't be patched quick enough.
  • Nazjax#2857Nazjax#2857 Registered Users Posts: 2,557
    edited August 20

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    So they are better against Dwarfs and that's it ? You have more people with magical attacks than magical resistance.

    And sharing a screen from nowhere is... not useful ? Yes you won a battle against AI ? I never said you can't win against AI or the faction is bad, indeed they can have a good recruitement.
    But I said that they are not necessary better in game 3 and it's not dealing 25 porcent more damage on Dwarfs (and fews others units) that will change anything.

    They were one of the 3 best cavalry (Grail Knights with Blood Knights and Demygriffons) and now 4 news factions have amazing cavalry : Skullcrushers of Khorne, Crushers (GW), War bear riders and Heartseekers of Slaanesh.

    So they are loosing even more their place of ''cavalry faction'' - not to mention Empire got a speed buff, while Bretonnia doesn't.
    But they have bad infantry, bad missile, mediocre magic and artillery, they need more content seriously.

    How they are better in game 3 ? Every details make them worse than in game 2. And sorry saying that they deal more damage because of magic resistance change is not going to make them better, it's too situationnal.





  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327

    Nazjax said:

    I hope CA will give them love at some point, a little rework and some news units even if it's a FLC because of rights.

    I just played a WH2 Bretonnia campaign and they were strong as hell.

    I would love to see them get more but I definitely don't think they're getting left behind. Their cav was already strong enough in WH2 and in WH3 it will perform even better.

    Why they will perform better in game 3 since 4 factions of game 3 have elite cavalry (Ogres, Khorne, Slaanesh and Kislev) that can rivalize (or beat) Bretonnia elite cavalry ?
    More magic attacks too. So Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are less tanky !



    Magic resistance has changed, so while their physical resistance is worse, their magical attacks are better. As far as campaign goes they will perform better as the AI gets noticeably worse melee cheats. Their knights can get incredible buffs in their tech tree. Here is a pic from my most recent campaign (VH battle difficulty) against a full health WoC stack.



    Not many factions can globally recruit such a cheap army in one turn that can perform like that. (Obviously the story would have been different had those been halberd or great weapon chosen, but thats still a great performance for such an affordable and replaceable unit).

    I honestly don't play multiplayer so my initial comment had nothing to do with that.
    I mean you can beat the entire game by just recruiting peasent units

    Or back in the day you can play the bm and spam bray shamans with a certain trait and never see a battle again

    Or playing as woc you can win the camapagin..


    Playing as the empire you can win the camapagin.

    You can make certain dwarf armies put them in the right foramtion and leave Ai will not beat them

    So obviously none of these races need dlc.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,396
    The speed increase is kind of mandatory... Bretonnians are supposed to have much finer and faster steeds than Empire.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    Itharus said:

    The speed increase is kind of mandatory... Bretonnians are supposed to have much finer and faster steeds than Empire.

    That would be dumb because now your gonna have to rebalance the every cavalry unit

    Since it mess up both the speed of elven ones. Lzm ones and subsequently slaanesh ones.


    Better just to nerf the over tuned stuff.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • John_KimbleJohn_Kimble Registered Users Posts: 1,534
    I so wish Grail Knights and Guardians had a much lower unit count, much higher stats, proper AP and AL or A-infantry respectively. I so hate that they both have 60 models per units, essentially the same amount compared to all the other cav in the roster despite them being very rare lorewise.
    At the moment, they aren't even the best cav unit in the roster. Questing Knights take the cake, which is quite embarassing.
    I remember back in WH2, i played SFO and they gave Grail Knights 16 models per unit (IIRC). It was an absolute blast playing with them. It felt so good to actually be able to charge a unit of Goblins without loosing models... They truly felt like a small elite group of super-powered humans. In vanilla they feel nothing like that.
  • Biggles#4266Biggles#4266 Registered Users Posts: 3,078

    I so wish Grail Knights and Guardians had a much lower unit count, much higher stats, proper AP and AL or A-infantry respectively. I so hate that they both have 60 models per units, essentially the same amount compared to all the other cav in the roster despite them being very rare lorewise.
    At the moment, they aren't even the best cav unit in the roster. Questing Knights take the cake, which is quite embarassing.
    I remember back in WH2, i played SFO and they gave Grail Knights 16 models per unit (IIRC). It was an absolute blast playing with them. It felt so good to actually be able to charge a unit of Goblins without loosing models... They truly felt like a small elite group of super-powered humans. In vanilla they feel nothing like that.

    Grail Guardians have I think 12 in SFO and they are awesome to use. They slowly cut through everything and really feel rare and powerful.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 485
    mgsanm said:

    For what I can see online it seems that Bretonnia needs some serious buffs to stay competitive... Both to campaign and battle!

    - Bret war horses should be faster than Empire's. The recent speed update should be applied to Bretonnia as well.
    - The Blessing of the Lady should be a Save Ward like in TT, not a physical resistance. It is supposed to help against all unholy and now even Grave Guard has magical attacks!
    - Alberic needs to take out any forest/jungle penalties to his army.
    - Bretonnian Lord's blue is outmatched by almost any other faction.
    - Slaanesh daemon cav is just too OP. Grail knights should be able to compete with those daemonettes toe to toe but right now they are just kids vs grown ups.

    Almost all old factions are behind. But the weakest factions is the Empire. Bretonia got one oft the best units in the game (hippogryph knights). The campaign mechanics of the new factions are way to powerful compared to these of the old facitons.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 485
    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,396
    saweendra said:

    Itharus said:

    The speed increase is kind of mandatory... Bretonnians are supposed to have much finer and faster steeds than Empire.

    That would be dumb because now your gonna have to rebalance the every cavalry unit

    Since it mess up both the speed of elven ones. Lzm ones and subsequently slaanesh ones.


    Better just to nerf the over tuned stuff.
    Not sure what you're getting at? Bretonnian horses are superior to the Empires. Their knights should be going at minimum the same speed and in many cases faster. It's just how it is. Either buff Bretonnian's speeds or nerf the Empire's again. Not understanding what your problem with this is? You're a Bretonnia supporter, you should know these things.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,327
    KIT1986 said:

    Itharus said:

    Grail Knights should frankly be the best non-monstrous cavalry.

    Which non-monstrous cavalry is better?


    if healing in the table blood knights and Grail knights Early in a match its usually blood knights , late in a match its usually grail knights
    from a cost effective stand point id wager Orc big un cav is better

    for wh 2 ME

    for wh 3 heart seekers easily the best cav in game , and the most cost effective unit is gonna be winged lancers since there OP.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


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