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The whole faction identity weak archer and infantry is just pure nonsense.
For that to happen, it would imply their cav is better than others, which is factually proven to be wrong. Thats not the worse, the bad news is their cav r subpar to others lol!
So what u have here is a supposedly cav faction with cav weaker than basically 7/10 others in game while having almost some of the worst inf and archers in game.
Thats not to say they r completely unusable, its just ure only down $1000-2000 compare to other factions due to overpriced units. Which is fine when say $10k vs $12 u can still win.
Problem is when ure $10k and ure facing factions that’s heavily op with underpriced units it becomes 10 vs something like 13-14 thats when u get one sided steam roll
For that to happen, it would imply their cav is better than others, which is factually proven to be wrong. Thats not the worse, the bad news is their cav r subpar to others lol!
Ansolutely!
Do you want devastating charges? Slaanesh is there for you. Do you want cavalry that does good damage on charges but can also stick around in melee? Khorne is here!
For that to happen, it would imply their cav is better than others, which is factually proven to be wrong. Thats not the worse, the bad news is their cav r subpar to others lol!
Ansolutely!
Do you want devastating charges? Slaanesh is there for you. Do you want cavalry that does good damage on charges but can also stick around in melee? Khorne is here!
Meh let me introduce you to orger crushers and bear cav
And can we talk about the grail reliquary? It's too slow for knights to use, too small aoe for peasants to really benefit from, and zero combat potential. It's even large so spears will melt it.
Surely even making the buff weaker and making it map wide would be better than what it currently is.
And can we talk about the grail reliquary? It's too slow for knights to use, too small aoe for peasants to really benefit from, and zero combat potential. It's even large so spears will melt it.
Surely even making the buff weaker and making it map wide would be better than what it currently is.
A hundred percent, it should be map wide but perhaps keep its cost in that case.
There should however be a minor morale hit to the army if the relique is destroyed, same for war shrines
And can we talk about the grail reliquary? It's too slow for knights to use, too small aoe for peasants to really benefit from, and zero combat potential. It's even large so spears will melt it.
Surely even making the buff weaker and making it map wide would be better than what it currently is.
A hundred percent, it should be map wide but perhaps keep its cost in that case.
There should however be a minor morale hit to the army if the relique is destroyed, same for war shrines
No it shouldn't honestly that sounds actually bit busted if you really think about summon/ pick one
And hide it in a forest and than completely remove a chunk of a weaknesses
It just needs a cost cut realistically its just a 250 gold unit pretending to be 500.
Thats literally it. For 250 its honestly a bargain For 500 over pirced.
Aside minor stuffs like speed being lower than the current empire knight units' speeds I would mainly like to see the elite cavalry to receive buffs.
With all the new elite cav arounds and Blood knights receiving damage boost and hunger grail knights are just average among all thosse. I really wouldn't mind an extra 5 damages like the bloodknights received, we could argue for more but in my eyes it would be the minimum.
Then grail guardians are even worse. They should go away from this fast tanky cav design for a more classical melee grind cav (like chaos knights with swords etc).It's even more questionnable to let them in this state since the fey's mortis aura is actually not that great compared to others so why bother with an elite cav unit who actually don't deal that much damage to protect her it was niche before now it's kinda pointless. Decrease the MD a bit if needed but the unit would really use some extra WS and even MA.
But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?
Aside minor stuffs like speed being lower than the current empire knight units' speeds I would mainly like to see the elite cavalry to receive buffs.
With all the new elite cav arounds and Blood knights receiving damage boost and hunger grail knights are just average among all thosse. I really wouldn't mind an extra 5 damages like the bloodknights received, we could argue for more but in my eyes it would be the minimum.
Then grail guardians are even worse. They should go away from this fast tanky cav design for a more classical melee grind cav (like chaos knights with swords etc).It's even more questionnable to let them in this state since the fey's mortis aura is actually not that great compared to others so why bother with an elite cav unit who actually don't deal that much damage to protect her it was niche before now it's kinda pointless. Decrease the MD a bit if needed but the unit would really use some extra WS and even MA.
The only reason you would ever take grail gurdians in the first place is for their high MD. Not for random grind
You can literally just cycle infinitely with grail knights to grind down any infantry unit. So i am honestly not gonna be happy if they make the unit useless
And can we talk about the grail reliquary? It's too slow for knights to use, too small aoe for peasants to really benefit from, and zero combat potential. It's even large so spears will melt it.
Surely even making the buff weaker and making it map wide would be better than what it currently is.
A hundred percent, it should be map wide but perhaps keep its cost in that case.
There should however be a minor morale hit to the army if the relique is destroyed, same for war shrines
No it shouldn't honestly that sounds actually bit busted if you really think about summon/ pick one
And hide it in a forest and than completely remove a chunk of a weaknesses
It just needs a cost cut realistically its just a 250 gold unit pretending to be 500.
Thats literally it. For 250 its honestly a bargain For 500 over pirced.
Make them unable to hide then.... Not exactly a problem
I mean, you could make the grail reliquary 200 gold or similar and call it a day, but just feels uninspired. You don't address the core weaknesses and maybe after 5 years of making it cheaper and cheaper just try something else. Map wide weaker buff, only buff peasants (expendable) ect.
But either way, we totally agree it isn't a great way to spend 500 gold.
Aside minor stuffs like speed being lower than the current empire knight units' speeds I would mainly like to see the elite cavalry to receive buffs.
With all the new elite cav arounds and Blood knights receiving damage boost and hunger grail knights are just average among all thosse. I really wouldn't mind an extra 5 damages like the bloodknights received, we could argue for more but in my eyes it would be the minimum.
Then grail guardians are even worse. They should go away from this fast tanky cav design for a more classical melee grind cav (like chaos knights with swords etc).It's even more questionnable to let them in this state since the fey's mortis aura is actually not that great compared to others so why bother with an elite cav unit who actually don't deal that much damage to protect her it was niche before now it's kinda pointless. Decrease the MD a bit if needed but the unit would really use some extra WS and even MA.
The only reason you would ever take grail gurdians in the first place is for their high MD. Not for random grind
You can literally just cycle infinitely with grail knights to grind down any infantry unit. So i am honestly not gonna be happy if they make the unit useless
Your last phrase is about knights or Guardians ? Because I 'm talking about buffing knights not the opposit.
As for guardians I just find their high MD gimmick pointless alone they quickly end facing stuff that just laugh in front of 36 WS an 36 MA. They take ages to do anything meaningful and during all this time they (potentialy) get destroyed by the usual stuff like spell etc. So much for 58 MD. To give a better idea -4 or 6 MD for +2/3 WS and 2/4 MA would make them a bit more impactful.
As for knights I mean most elite cav can cycle infinitely and pretty well even if unlike grail knights they don't have the advantage of having perfect vigor. In WH2 grail knights were roughtly equal to blood knights now they lose living blood knights at 40% HP for the elite of "the cavalry faction" it's a bit sad even with the price difference. And after testing them a bit more they are just mid to subpar compare to other factions equivalents.
But is talking about what is appropriate to talk about in this thread appropriate to be talked about in this thread ?
The AOE on the reliquary is huge. Feel free to increase but don't pretend this is a small AOE. It highly suffers from not being an actual buffed up encourage. Encourage has a soft fall off around the edges.
I think giving the reliquary better stats would be more than reasonable. It costs as much as a foot hero plus the buff. Give it foot hero stats and damage. The men carrying it are inspired by divine grace.
Bretonnia suffer from being a game 1 faction with asymmetrical design ported into game 3 where the new shiny factions have everything... Thats the start and end of it. Easy to fix though.
Firstly their cav should have the same speed as other cav. Thats a no brainer. Secondly their infantry and archers are weak, seriously weak. And while thats is part of their faction identity there is room for a buff. I'm not saying squires should take on chosen and peasant archers should be as good as waywatchers, but currently they can be buffed a bit without ruining bretonia's identity. Start with more accuracy and a tad more ap for archers and give squires slightly better stats. Add the movement speed to knights and its a start. In all likelihood it won't be enough and there will need to be more buffs but it would be a start.
WTF hell no. The last thing this game needs is more homogenization.
Just buff the cavalry, but their peasant units should stay garbage and expendable because this is BRETTONIA, not Dwarfs or Warriors of Chaos. You want strong infantry? Go play another faction.
For bretonnia foot knights I would just copy the idea from coast. 60 model units on ultra that have enough stats and armour to elevate themselves away from the fodder infantry the faction fields otherwise.
But giving the bretonnia a DLC with more cav options for more variety things that would be nice. Something more than shield + spear with stuff like aura effects or just even propper anti infantry.
Bretonnia needs more armor piercing. Also the cavalry update appears incomplete. Only empire and jade and cold ones got buffed. Hopefully in 2.2 we see bretonnia actually get brought up to par along with other neglected cavalry factions (read all of them except empire and cathay.)
Bretonnia needs more armor piercing. Also the cavalry update appears incomplete. Only empire and jade and cold ones got buffed. Hopefully in 2.2 we see bretonnia actually get brought up to par along with other neglected cavalry factions (read all of them except empire and cathay.)
The update was a health and MD buff which all cavalry received. Many received additional buffs such as a lot of light cavalry gaining some WS. I'm like 90% sure the Empire and Cathay speed changes are a bug related to the character speed change but honestly hard to tell looking at the game code.
Though a lot of units that had unique speed values are now at 78 speed with no rhyme or reason including unicorn mounts, and vampire count characters on horses. Also chaos characters with a chaos steed mount which makes them 8 speed faster than normal chaos knights. Some changes were probably intentional while others are clear bugs (cavalry speeds "slow" and "very slow" are set to the same value of 7.8 if I recall correctly). It's a mess.
Having said that Bret not getting any cavalry buffs feels particularly bad since that's supposed to be the core of their roster and for some time their most expensive units haven't been in the best place.
Aside minor stuffs like speed being lower than the current empire knight units' speeds I would mainly like to see the elite cavalry to receive buffs.
With all the new elite cav arounds and Blood knights receiving damage boost and hunger grail knights are just average among all thosse. I really wouldn't mind an extra 5 damages like the bloodknights received, we could argue for more but in my eyes it would be the minimum.
Then grail guardians are even worse. They should go away from this fast tanky cav design for a more classical melee grind cav (like chaos knights with swords etc).It's even more questionnable to let them in this state since the fey's mortis aura is actually not that great compared to others so why bother with an elite cav unit who actually don't deal that much damage to protect her it was niche before now it's kinda pointless. Decrease the MD a bit if needed but the unit would really use some extra WS and even MA.
The only reason you would ever take grail gurdians in the first place is for their high MD. Not for random grind
You can literally just cycle infinitely with grail knights to grind down any infantry unit. So i am honestly not gonna be happy if they make the unit useless
Your last phrase is about knights or Guardians ? Because I 'm talking about buffing knights not the opposit.
As for guardians I just find their high MD gimmick pointless alone they quickly end facing stuff that just laugh in front of 36 WS an 36 MA. They take ages to do anything meaningful and during all this time they (potentialy) get destroyed by the usual stuff like spell etc. So much for 58 MD. To give a better idea -4 or 6 MD for +2/3 WS and 2/4 MA would make them a bit more impactful.
As for knights I mean most elite cav can cycle infinitely and pretty well even if unlike grail knights they don't have the advantage of having perfect vigor. In WH2 grail knights were roughtly equal to blood knights now they lose living blood knights at 40% HP for the elite of "the cavalry faction" it's a bit sad even with the price difference. And after testing them a bit more they are just mid to subpar compare to other factions equivalents.
Thats just power creep the last part. But they always lost back than difference all is when i picked when to fight. That didn't change.
As for grail gurdians mate i never picked them for kill stuff i need it because some times you need something to just hold.
If you wanna kill with them perfect vigor does wonders with cycle charging.
I mean, you could make the grail reliquary 200 gold or similar and call it a day, but just feels uninspired. You don't address the core weaknesses and maybe after 5 years of making it cheaper and cheaper just try something else. Map wide weaker buff, only buff peasants (expendable) ect.
But either way, we totally agree it isn't a great way to spend 500 gold.
or simply copy paste the army book so the reliquae provides the lady's blessing to any unit in the area however, the blessing itself needs to be more... inspired than just a weaker version of sneaky ratmen survivability.
Current bret biggest weakness is lady blessing as a faction mechanic is simply too weak
With the abundance of magic att across ALL factions. Its now a no brainer to use them vs the knights
Lady blessing has always been a ward and now more than ever needs to be a ward. Its stupid enough to lose the blessing after fleeing, which by lore it is so, but they r also ward saves NOT Physical
Current bret biggest weakness is lady blessing as a faction mechanic is simply too weak
With the abundance of magic att across ALL factions. Its now a no brainer to use them vs the knights
Lady blessing has always been a ward and now more than ever needs to be a ward. Its stupid enough to lose the blessing after fleeing, which by lore it is so, but they r also ward saves NOT Physical
I’ve mentioned I was playing chaos a bunch at end of WH2 and regularly used them to counter bretonnia as hell cannon was really good vs bret infantry and dragon ogres could reliably win cavalry engagements with hound skirmish support.
That’s how bad bretonnia cavalry is aside from one Ror none of their cavalry is the best at anything. Yes they’re cost effective but so are best in class cavalry options for other factions so it clearly isn’t enough.
Also we all know Fay carried off mortis in most competitive formats of in game 2. She can’t do that anymore least not vs every faction.
Comments
For that to happen, it would imply their cav is better than others, which is factually proven to be wrong. Thats not the worse, the bad news is their cav r subpar to others lol!
So what u have here is a supposedly cav faction with cav weaker than basically 7/10 others in game while having almost some of the worst inf and archers in game.
Thats not to say they r completely unusable, its just ure only down $1000-2000 compare to other factions due to overpriced units. Which is fine when say $10k vs $12 u can still win.
Problem is when ure $10k and ure facing factions that’s heavily op with underpriced units it becomes 10 vs something like 13-14 thats when u get one sided steam roll
Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
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1 · 2Disagree 1AgreeDo you want devastating charges? Slaanesh is there for you.
Do you want cavalry that does good damage on charges but can also stick around in melee? Khorne is here!
- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeStraight up best in class
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · Disagree 1Agreeand...
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeTake i nero knight helberd or necro knight lance, settra on sphinkx.
Gwt two chariots two necrotats pr one necrtat or tomb prince all of them in chariot.
One stalker
Three skelles bunch of skelton cav nehak cav
Run over bretonnia.
Pr pig tonia to punish players who think qk are good cav.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeBut, the fact that Hellstriders for 600 have 15 BvL and Grail Knights for 1500 have 12 BvL... That's a joke for sure.
It's also a problem of armour inflation. Bretonnia has few tools to deal with ever increasing armour values since game 1.
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3 · Disagree 3Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeAnd can we talk about the grail reliquary? It's too slow for knights to use, too small aoe for peasants to really benefit from, and zero combat potential. It's even large so spears will melt it.
Surely even making the buff weaker and making it map wide would be better than what it currently is.
- Report
2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeTop #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeThere should however be a minor morale hit to the army if the relique is destroyed, same for war shrines
- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeAnd hide it in a forest and than completely remove a chunk of a weaknesses
It just needs a cost cut realistically its just a 250 gold unit pretending to be 500.
Thats literally it. For 250 its honestly a bargain
For 500 over pirced.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeWith all the new elite cav arounds and Blood knights receiving damage boost and hunger grail knights are just average among all thosse. I really wouldn't mind an extra 5 damages like the bloodknights received, we could argue for more but in my eyes it would be the minimum.
Then grail guardians are even worse. They should go away from this fast tanky cav design for a more classical melee grind cav (like chaos knights with swords etc).It's even more questionnable to let them in this state since the fey's mortis aura is actually not that great compared to others so why bother with an elite cav unit who actually don't deal that much damage to protect her it was niche before now it's kinda pointless.
Decrease the MD a bit if needed but the unit would really use some extra WS and even MA.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeNot for random grind
You can literally just cycle infinitely with grail knights to grind down any infantry unit.
So i am honestly not gonna be happy if they make the unit useless
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree AgreeUnlike a 250 gold blob unit
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeBut either way, we totally agree it isn't a great way to spend 500 gold.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAs for guardians I just find their high MD gimmick pointless alone they quickly end facing stuff that just laugh in front of 36 WS an 36 MA. They take ages to do anything meaningful and during all this time they (potentialy) get destroyed by the usual stuff like spell etc. So much for 58 MD.
To give a better idea -4 or 6 MD for +2/3 WS and 2/4 MA would make them a bit more impactful.
As for knights I mean most elite cav can cycle infinitely and pretty well even if unlike grail knights they don't have the advantage of having perfect vigor.
In WH2 grail knights were roughtly equal to blood knights now they lose living blood knights at 40% HP for the elite of "the cavalry faction" it's a bit sad even with the price difference. And after testing them a bit more they are just mid to subpar compare to other factions equivalents.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeI mean its between errant + trash reliq or realm knight
Tbh i rather go realms instead.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI think giving the reliquary better stats would be more than reasonable. It costs as much as a foot hero plus the buff. Give it foot hero stats and damage. The men carrying it are inspired by divine grace.
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0 · 1Disagree AgreeI dont know, their melee seems really strong, managed to kill 1 artillery crew so thats something
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1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeJust buff the cavalry, but their peasant units should stay garbage and expendable because this is BRETTONIA, not Dwarfs or Warriors of Chaos. You want strong infantry? Go play another faction.
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0 · Disagree AgreeBut giving the bretonnia a DLC with more cav options for more variety things that would be nice. Something more than shield + spear with stuff like aura effects or just even propper anti infantry.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeThough a lot of units that had unique speed values are now at 78 speed with no rhyme or reason including unicorn mounts, and vampire count characters on horses. Also chaos characters with a chaos steed mount which makes them 8 speed faster than normal chaos knights. Some changes were probably intentional while others are clear bugs (cavalry speeds "slow" and "very slow" are set to the same value of 7.8 if I recall correctly). It's a mess.
Having said that Bret not getting any cavalry buffs feels particularly bad since that's supposed to be the core of their roster and for some time their most expensive units haven't been in the best place.
- Report
2 · Disagree 2AgreeAs for grail gurdians mate i never picked them for kill stuff i need it because some times you need something to just hold.
If you wanna kill with them perfect vigor does wonders with cycle charging.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree AgreeU can try with any crew really, reliq wep str is less than 50
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeWith the abundance of magic att across ALL factions. Its now a no brainer to use them vs the knights
Lady blessing has always been a ward and now more than ever needs to be a ward. Its stupid enough to lose the blessing after fleeing, which by lore it is so, but they r also ward saves NOT Physical
Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
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1 · 1Disagree 1Agreenow we have fresh new code for a barrier- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeThat’s how bad bretonnia cavalry is aside from one Ror none of their cavalry is the best at anything. Yes they’re cost effective but so are best in class cavalry options for other factions so it clearly isn’t enough.
Also we all know Fay carried off mortis in most competitive formats of in game 2. She can’t do that anymore least not vs every faction.
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2 · Disagree 2Agree