Karak Eight Peaks Rework

Mobbelkotze#8143

In Warhammer 2, a DLC was introduced with the king and the warlord, which revolves around the reconquest of the settlement of Karak-Eight-Peaks and the enmity of Dwarves (Belegar Ironhammer), Greenskins (Skarsnik) and later also Skaven (Queek).
All insist on being the true ruler of Karak-Eight-Peaks and a large (though differently weighted) part of each Legendary Lord's campaign revolves around the recapture of the settlement of Karak-Eight-Peaks.

At this point I don't want to start any big comparisons as it is in Warhammer 2 but start directly with the current state of this constellation and the problems present in Warhammer 3:

1) Karak-Eight-Peaks has only 8 slots to build buildings.

2) The whole province consists of only two settlements, Karak-Eight-Peaks and Valaya's Sorrow.

3) Belegar receives a 50% upkeep penalty for the entire faction until he has conquered Karak-Eight-Peaks, while Queek and Skarsnik do not receive these restrictions.

4) Each of the above factions can erect two special buildings in Karak-Eight-Peaks. The special Faction Landmarks that the Skaven and Orcs can build in Karak-Eight-Peaks grant strong global bonuses and/or large amounts of Income respectively, but the Dwarves' special buildings are very weak in direct comparison:


Greenskin Buildung Tier 5 - Defiled Ancestor Tombs:
+10 Control
+3 Lord recruit rank (factionwide)
Leadership: +20 for Goblin and Night Goblin units (factionwide)
Attrition -50% when under siege (armies in region)
Recruit Rank: +4 for Goblin and Night Goblin units (all characters)
Leadership: +20 for Goblin units (all armies)
Unit experience per turn +50 (factionwide)

Provides garrison:
1x Night Goblins (Fanactics)
1x Night Goblin Archers (Fanatics)

Unlocks recruitment of:
Black Orcs

Greenskins Building Tier 3 - Beast Lairz:
Upkeep: -3% for Boar, Wolf and Spider Rider Units (all armies)
Recruitment cost: -20% for Boar, Wolf and Spider Rider Units
Recruit Rank: +1 for Boar, Wolf and Spider Rider Units

Skaven Building Tier 5 - Looted Dwarven Treasury:
Revenue generated: 800
Diplomatic relations: +15 with Skaven
Corruption: -3
Maintenance: -10% for skaven slaves, clan rats, night runners, gutter runners and weapons team units (all armies)
Income from looting and pillaging settlements: +15% (all characters)

Skaven build level 3 - Pillar City Hub:
Income generated: 200
Generated food: 3
Range of movement in campaign: +20% for own armies that start their campaign in this region
Growth: +5 (all provinces)
Income from trade tariffs: +10%
Casualty replenishment rate: +15%


Dwarves Building Tier 3 - Grand Underway Junction:
Campaign movement range: +20 for own armies starting their turn in this region
Growth: +5 (all provinces)
Income from trade tariffs: +10%
Casualty replenishment rate: +15%
Upkeep: -5% for Ironbreaker units (all armies)
Recruit rank: +3 for Ironbreaker units
Income from all buildings: +10% (local province)

Provides garrison:
2x Ironbreakers

Dwarves Building Tier 5 - Ancestor Tombs:
Control: +10
Control: +2 in adjacent provinces
Recruit rank: +4 for infantry units
Meele defence: +15 when under siege (armies in region)
Ancestor weapons: Enables magical attacks for all units (all armies in this province and all adjacent provinces)

Provides garrison:
1x Hammerers

I will try to give some suggestions in a small way to improve the situation. My main problem with the current constellation is that the dwarves are clearly getting the short end of the stick, even though they are the faction with the most focus on recapturing Karak-Eight-Peaks. Skaven and Greenskins get bonuses as soon as they conquer Karak-Eight-Peaks, while the biggest bonus for Belegar is that he loses the global penalty on Upkeep.

1) I think that Karak-Eight-Peaks should have two more building sites because of its outstanding importance for all three factions.

2) Due to the fact that there are special buildings that boost the province-wide income and the importance of the province for all three factions, I think that the province should have at least 3 settlements, if I were allowed to choose freely even 4. The province would then be more comparable with strong main provinces such as those of the Empire or the High Elves.

3) I'm not quite sure how to solve the situation here, I understand the idea behind giving Belegar a penalty until he captures Karak-Eight-Peaks, but not why Queek or Skarsnik don't get penalties then. All in all, however, I am against such penalties, because in my view they detract from the overall fun and are rather annoying than generating added value. I would make the quest for Karak-Eight-Peaks more attractive by unlocking faction-wide bonuses for each of the three factions as well as creating a direct mission for it, which is also rewarded with gold and e.g. Oathgold. This goes hand in hand with the special buildings mentioned in 4. I would remove faction-wide bonuses from there and not link them to the buildings, but rather unlock them per se for the faction upon recapture.

4) As mentioned in 3), I would remove global bonuses here and give the dwarves more bonuses in their Tier 5 building that are aimed at making the province as such stronger and more attractive. The Greenskins should also get a Tier 3 building with comparable bonuses that the Skaven and Dwarves get there.

I hope that we can start a small discussion in this article and that the devs will realise that the Belegar campaign in particular is in urgent need of an overhaul.

Stephen8#5502

Belegar's quest to retake 8 peaks was one of my favorite quests in WH2. I agree with the above 100%. I recommend that 8 peaks be returned to a 4 province region and that 8 peaks get 10 building slots. I really like how the Belegar campaign starts out in WH3 versus 2. Perhaps the upkeep penalty could be dropped a bit (35-40%) and some (more minor) penalty get added to Skarsnik and Queek until they take it over. Great job on WH3 so far!

Mobbelkotze#8143

Stephen8 said:

Belegar's quest to retake 8 peaks was one of my favorite quests in WH2. I agree with the above 100%. I recommend that 8 peaks be returned to a 4 province region and that 8 peaks get 10 building slots. I really like how the Belegar campaign starts out in WH3 versus 2. Perhaps the upkeep penalty could be dropped a bit (35-40%) and some (more minor) penalty get added to Skarsnik and Queek until they take it over. Great job on WH3 so far!

Thats also one way to go about solving the "upkeep problem". I'd rather see it removed entirely though. Another possibility would be to embed some kind of penalty into the already existing Grudge system of the Dwarves, which also would make more sense lorewise. That being said though the Grudge system is in dire need of an overhaul itself which is an entirely different story and worthy of another post.

Stephen8#5502

Sure, whatever rework would help. Personally, I am more fixated on the problem that 8peaks now has only two settlements down from 4 and not enough slots and I also agree with idea that the special dwarf builds at 8peaks are underwhelming. While I am thinking about it, I forgot to suggest that when 8peaks is recaptured by one of the 3 factions, it would be cool if that has the option of becoming the faction capital (not that that has much purpose now but still!).

Mobbelkotze#8143

Stephen8 said:

Sure, whatever rework would help. Personally, I am more fixated on the problem that 8peaks now has only two settlements down from 4 and not enough slots and I also agree with idea that the special dwarf builds at 8peaks are underwhelming. While I am thinking about it, I forgot to suggest that when 8peaks is recaptured by one of the 3 factions, it would be cool if that has the option of becoming the faction capital (not that that has much purpose now but still!).

I second this. I forgot to mention that I ordered problems 1-4 according to their severity.

Delusionist#2224

Belegar used to get a special modifier in game 1/ early game 2 called "an oath fulfilled". This modifier gave +4 lord recruit rank, +4 global public order, +100 experience per turn all armies and... some other bonus. However, this modifier broke when the grudge system was changed and was never reinstituted.

Dr_Patriot

I agree at least that the number of building slots should be brought back up.

FFabian

Yeah, as Delusionist said, there seems to be a bug (or is that intentional?) that Belegar no longer gets his modifier for capturing Karag Eight Peaks. The whole campaign centers around capturing his ancestral home and then when you achieve that its totally underwhelming: The province and the Capital is small and no bonus modifier - feels like not worth the effort.

eomat#7953

K8P currently looks like a standard Dwarf Settlement. It had a lot more Granduer in ME with surrounding architecture. It is the focus of a 3 way fight between Belegar, Skarsnik and Queek and should have a more prominent look akin to something like Karaz-a-Karak, Karak Kadrin or Zhufbar. Something unique around it but one dwarfen and then can have Greeskin motifs or Skaven holes and Warpstone dependent on who possesses it. All mountain Settlements should have this but K8P should look something special like the afore mentioned dwellings.

Mobbelkotze#8143

Delusionist said:

Belegar used to get a special modifier in game 1/ early game 2 called "an oath fulfilled". This modifier gave +4 lord recruit rank, +4 global public order, +100 experience per turn all armies and... some other bonus. However, this modifier broke when the grudge system was changed and was never reinstituted.

Yeah I had something like that in mind but wasnt sure if I remembered correctly. I agree that there should be some kind of substantial global bonus once youve managed to capture it.

Tharoz

Karak 8 Peaks was obviously a victim of the need to squeeze sections of the map to fit everything, however it feels like this decision was made without much thought or planning. Why do some areas of the map lost settlements to retain density as the map is squeezed, while other areas have been made incredibly settlement dense? A degree of variation is to be expected, but the current map feels like it was in large part done by several different people working off different plans who never spoke to each other. Reducing the province size by 50% is huge, and doing so without any compensation displays a lack of awareness of the game factions and provincial importance. Instead of trying to get all the extra space by penalizing one province, a more reasonable approach would have been to spread it around. Western Badlands remains a 4 settlement province, for example. A province of far less importance to far fewer factions.

Reducing both Western Badlands and Karak 8 Peaks to three settlement provinces would have been better, though still not ideal. The launch of IE would also have been the ideal time to address another problem with Karak 8 Peaks that existed throughout Warhammer 2. It is only an 8 slot settlement. For a settlement that is compared to Karaz a Karak in importance throughout the lore, in addition to being of such significant importance to three major factions of the game, it should clearly be a 10 slot settlement. Particularly in light of the misguided decision to reduce Eight Peaks to a 2 settlement province, increasing Karak 8 Peaks itself to a 10 slot settlement would seem like the least that could be done to somewhat mitigate the damage.

Mobbelkotze#8143

Tharoz said:

Karak 8 Peaks was obviously a victim of the need to squeeze sections of the map to fit everything, however it feels like this decision was made without much thought or planning. Why do some areas of the map lost settlements to retain density as the map is squeezed, while other areas have been made incredibly settlement dense? A degree of variation is to be expected, but the current map feels like it was in large part done by several different people working off different plans who never spoke to each other. Reducing the province size by 50% is huge, and doing so without any compensation displays a lack of awareness of the game factions and provincial importance. Instead of trying to get all the extra space by penalizing one province, a more reasonable approach would have been to spread it around. Western Badlands remains a 4 settlement province, for example. A province of far less importance to far fewer factions.

Reducing both Western Badlands and Karak 8 Peaks to three settlement provinces would have been better, though still not ideal. The launch of IE would also have been the ideal time to address another problem with Karak 8 Peaks that existed throughout Warhammer 2. It is only an 8 slot settlement. For a settlement that is compared to Karaz a Karak in importance throughout the lore, in addition to being of such significant importance to three major factions of the game, it should clearly be a 10 slot settlement. Particularly in light of the misguided decision to reduce Eight Peaks to a 2 settlement province, increasing Karak 8 Peaks itself to a 10 slot settlement would seem like the least that could be done to somewhat mitigate the damage.

How lackluster the actual province is is also my biggest criticism as of now.

Lord_Drakken#4065

With the way the map is now drawn, I don't see other regions really fitting in with the Karak Eight Peaks province. Also Valaya's Sorrow doesn't really fit into any other provinces since it is so close to 8P. I think it would be OK as a 2 region province.

One thing I think would really buff up the region would be to make it a 10 slot for Skaven and Gobbos. Make it a 12 slot for the Dwarfs, who are the only race that can really restore 8P to the gigantic settlement it truly is. Then make it 8 slots for everyone else.

Do this and buff the dwarf special buildings a little and this would be a province worth fighting over!

#19880

Karak Eight Peaks should be a three city province, each one is 8 slots and they're all within the mountains where the current settlement is. Make K8P the bloody mess it is in lore.