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Vampire Coast feedback and improvement ideas. They NEED help.

Traumtulpe#6946Traumtulpe#6946 Registered Users Posts: 15
There are many glaring issues currently with VC in campaign, let me give you an overview:

1: Settlement buildings.

Owning a minor settlement currently offers no benefits apart from a total of 300 gold income maxed out - after investing about 15k gold. That's horrible.

The money building has atrocious return for investment even for major settlements, increasing in steps of 50 gold at a cost of up to 4000!

Effects you would expect, such as hero capacity increases, are inexplicably absent. Long story short, if a settlement doesn't have a port it's a complete waste of time and money, and even if it does it feels lackluster.

You NEED to add some benefits to these buildings, for example hero capacity, increases to pirate cove income, recruit rank/slots, ambush spotting (lighthouse), a combat ability in the province (say, one charge of turning an enemy unit >20% hp into a unit of Syreens for the Night Pyres), diplomacy/allied recruitment/trade bonuses for the tavern.

2: Settlement battles and VC units.

The early available VC units are horrible in uneven terrain, especially settlements. Your melee units are guaranteed to lose against pretty much anything, and your gun units hardly ever get to shoot. Really the only option you have is to blob enemy infantry up with your lord/hero, then damage them with bombers/mortars. Dogs get stuck and start crumbling even when attacking archers from behind, and anything not engaged in melee will dodge mortars (and Queen Bess) with about 80% success rate (even shooting archers dodge about 50% of mortar shells in between).

I suggest making Animated Hulks tier 1 (and available through raise dead), giving them the wallbreaker trait, and reducing their upkeep. This will set them apart from Mournguls a bit more, and make settlement battles a little less painful. Further suggestions would be to add polearm deckhands to raise dead, and increase handgunner range to 160. Because VC also mightily struggles against cavalry and archers (peasant bowmen completely and utterly destroy any zombie unit at 160 range, in any terrain and from behind other units, and they outrun them too).

3: Pirate Coves.

The hero action to install a pirate cove is unsatisfactory. While the cost to payoff ratio in itself is just barely ok, the 15 turn cooldown per character has to go. That's 3750 gold upkeep per hero in between. Plus ~2000 for installing, plus 2500 for the building - for 200 gold per turn. I suggest no cooldown at all, as the cost is already high enough.

Furthermore, the diplomatic penalty for giving a cove to an allied faction needs to go. In fact, the coves should provide minor bonuses to allies as well (similar to outposts), and slightly improve relations if anything.

In addition, if you gift/trade away/lose control of a coastal settlement, it should come with a preinstalled pirate cove (could be a tech, or the effect of a regular building). As it stands, you lose a pirate cove if you take a settlement - forcing you to leave enemies alive you'd really rather not.

4: Lack of new mechanics/diplomacy options.

VC cannot vassalize or confederate. They have no bonuses to diplomacy (coercive or otherwise) or allied recruitment at all. They have no access to spellpower at all (aren't vampires supposed to be powerful casters?).

5: Seafaring - dark elves do it better. And ship growth.

Black Arcs can attack coastal settlements directly from the sea - VC special lords with their own ship need to be able to do the same. Also, dark elves have a sealane in range of their main settlements (Malekith and Malus), connecting to further sealanes. Please add an equivalent (or more) for the vampire coast.

With the recent changes, VC ship growth has been nerfed severely. Now you need up to 32 growth to reach tier 5 units, and access to the first caster hero has been delayed as well. This feels terrible, especially because you need higher tier units to even the odds after being so much weaker than all the factions with archers and cavalry and effective melee from the start.

6: Misc.

Curse of Undeath seems too weak. It heals for 0.35% per cast - that is total, not per second. A bit ridiculous, no? Nurgles passive is 3x as strong (lore of life too, I think).

Mourngul Haunters miss their charge attacks against single entities, they turn very slowly and get staggered a lot, and cannot push past even peasants (mass issue might be related to campaign difficulty). Very underwhelming performance, can you make their hitbox smaller, make them more agile and maybe give them a bit more mass?

Please add a Syreen hero that has the passive of increasing movement range (see Banshee).

If a Bloated Corpse starts the battle at low HP, it will immediately explode (and possibly break the game if the enemy tries to shoot it). Similar with Necrofex, they should need to be hit for their passive to trigger.

Syreens were tanks, not damage dealers. The buff to AP does little for them, yet they are less tanky and thus worse than before (they get healed less is one of the issues). Similarly, the Shadewraith Gunners just got a lot worse.

The Black Spot is a melee/ranged hybrid, but lacks the HP to fight in melee. Maybe buff to equal deckhands?

The Night Terrors still have rampage... that's terrible.

You could give all crabs reverse shields (45% missile block from behind). Would be cool, I think. Also, no-gun-prometheans could use a buff or something, they seem pointless (same building has Mournguls).

Deck Droppers are so weak in campaign, I'd never have more than one in an army - and then only to chase of routing units. Yet you nerfed their red line buff from 20% to 8%? Can you make them at least passable in melee or something (flying units in general are absolutely horrible at killing routing units, only a few models will attack).

Deck Gunners should be tier 3 instead of 4. They die like instantly if anything attacks them, have no shields, crumble, are useless in siege battles... at tier 4 I'd rather get crabs.

Bloated Corpses have "causes terror" on their card... but they don't seem to cause terror? Bloated Corpses should alsom break a wall segment upon explosion (and be able to attack walls).

The landmark in the Black Pyramid of Nagash was missing when I played as Luther Harkon.

The "determined" trait is useless for VC, as all heroes are immune to psychology by default, and +3 leadership for the hero only is pretty much nothing. Knowledgeable is also horrible. You removed a trait that had +10% research and -10% build cost (if I recall correctly), may we get that instead?

Disbanding a lord will disable his fleet office effect - you have to manually remove and reassign him. A minor bug.

Can we have a better dog version, one that doesn't crumble when attacking archers, and maybe with poison?

I hope you find this useful and will take it into account, as I really like the VC, but I'd currently rather play something else...
8
8 votes

Under Review · Last Updated

Comments

  • Delusionist#2224Delusionist#2224 Registered Users Posts: 126
    Hey, checked out your post. Wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything said here
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,531


    Bloated Corpses have "causes terror" on their card... but they don't seem to cause terror?

    Terror actually has a super short range, like 5m or something, and if a Bloaty Boi is within 5m of an enemy he explodes and so isn't there to cause terror.
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 15,841
    1. Their settlements being bad sounds fine to me, Vampire Coast is a race of pirate so I think having weaker settlements makes a lot of sense, making a strong inland empire with them would feel wrong to me.

    3. The cooldown on Vampire Coves is fine, it would be too strong if you could spam them as you can get a lot of money from them if you put them on the right settlements. I would suggest instead a full revamp of the mechanic, having additionnal buildings and increasing the slots to 4 to make them closer to Undercities or Secret Sanctums.

    5. Not sure why they should have sea lanes for them. The Naggaroth lane is there for a lore reason, Dark Elves are using an underground sea to travel to the other side of Naggaroth so they can go raid other places. Current growth sounds good to me as well, I'd say it's the growth of other races that should be nerfed as currently you reach the endgame way too fast. With most factions you can have to tier 5 units very early, this makes the campaign pace too fast and once you get there you are snowballing and the campaign stops being interesting to play. A growth nerf across the board along with other changes would make the campaign longer and more interesting imo.

    Those are the main points I disagree with. I disagree with some of your other points too just not as much.

  • Traumtulpe#6946Traumtulpe#6946 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Neodeinos, I see your point. But on top portless settlements being a waste of money with no merit, VC doesn't even do the pirating particularly well. Like I mentioned, they cannot attack coastal settlements from the sea in the same way a Black Arc can.

    And in what world are Pirate Coves fine? They are worse than Undercities, they are limited to ports only (Undercities in Dark Fortresses are quite nice), AND they have a longer cooldown.

    I really enjoyed the VC in Warhammer 2, but at this point they are not only left behind by getting none of the new mechanics, they took nerf after nerf on top. Some small (like crumbling continuing after the battle is decided), some medium (like ship growth being stunted), and some pretty bad (like all of the ethereal units flat out getting worse).

    I can only tell you that I do not enjoy VC in their current state. Really, how can you justify a T5 building that has as it's only effect an income of 50 gold - at a 4000 gold price point? And there is another building with a grand total of 20(!) gold income per turn. Like, what the hell? Even supposedly low income races like Skaven and Norsca do better than that!
  • beers#8612beers#8612 Registered Users Posts: 2
    They are one of my favorite factions and I play the heck out of them. Almost everything you say is spot on. I can't think of a faction that takes as long as them to get going unless you get a lucky raise dead pool but even then I notice certain units are never available from it while as Vampire Counts I end up raising dead with blood knights, Vargulfs and everything in between. Deck droppers are worthless even if you put the red skill points into them. Don't even get me started on Carronades. I can get maybe 2 or 3 shots out of them at best before the enemy gets into melee range even on flat ground or if I have elevation. Deck gunners feel like dollar store ratling guns. Hulks are worthless especially against lizardmen and I usually play as Harkon then use unnatural selection mod to just delete the other 3 LLs so I can recruit them immediately seeing as how there is no CONFEDERATE option and they usually hate me anyway and or take forever to get wiped out by the other AI.

    Aranessa needs to be given her own roster. There is a mod that does this but I don't really play her as I prefer Harkon. There is a similar mod that makes the leader of Marienburg have a similar pirate roster. Maybe those two can be remade into their own human pirate factio?

    It takes literally forever to get fleet captains. And the cost of upgrading all your crap is insane in relation to it. I usually set the battle difficulty to easy once I have an army on the ocean just to farm cash by going to all the island battles because its usually just a halfstack defending it that I will beat anyway and any auto resolve under easy your army takes a ton of damage.

    Pirate coves CD is too long yeah maybe 7-10 turns. They are too expensive as well. I mean there is the blue line that lowers the price but I usually invest in other skills first. I usually just make them for the research rate buildings because even with 4 or 5 of them I hardly notice the income.

    Shouldn't we get new lord options? There is only one really...male with a pole and female with a gun doesn't really feel like options to me just variants on a single one. Maybe Gunnery Chief Wight or something...
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