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Indypride asks: What's Next for the Vampire Counts?

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Comments

  • GoldfishLord#2862GoldfishLord#2862 Registered Users Posts: 465

    So a 4 LL DLC with no units? Unless it was significantly cheaper than CoC I don't think it would good.

    Besides, he talks about how having 3 Von Carsteins is bad but then omits the fact that the Red Duke at some point will be made a full LL, making it 2 Blood Dragon LLs with Walach which repeats the same mistake.

    Red Duke FLC at some point gives us a Blood Dragon, a VC DLC with Neferata gives us a Lhamia, another DLC with Zacharias gives us a Necrarch and Vorag as another FLC gives us an Strigoi.

    as i said multiple times: make Wallach a bloodline LL for VC and the Duke a hybrid Bretonnian LL with access to a midex roster of living/undead bret units
    Indy and Sotek both neglected to mention the Red Duke entirely and I am also interested to hear how they'd differentiate him from the "main" Blood Dragon LL. I'm not sure why they chose to skip that part of their speculation. But the mixed Bretonnian stuff - isn't that Malloublade's whole shtick?
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,214






    OdTengri said:

    Cortes31 said:



    Short summary:

    More atmosphere
    Base speed of Vampires should be in the fifties
    Not all units, like Crypt Ghouls for example, should crumble.

    4 new LL like CoC
    Neferata
    Walach
    The Everling
    Ushoran or Vorag

    LH: Aborash

    NO Konrad

    To add to the list:

    Varghulf
    Mortis Engine
    Black Coach

    are all flying units in Warhammer and should also be treated as such in this game.
    Can you point where it says Flying on these Unit profiles for the Varghulf or Mortis Engine?


    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mortis-engine-en.pdf
    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-varghulf-en.pdf

    also looking at the models, you can easily tell they could fly

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Vampire-Counts-Mortis-Engine
    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Flesh-Eater-Court-Varghulf-Courtier

    and even the rules you posted on the mortis engine has a picture of the mortis engine flying above the undead army.
    So... You present rules from a Game this one isn't based on.... and want me to read those ones...but refuse the read the rules that this game is actually based on and instead point to the pictures.

    Also no a Varghulf looks like it flies about as well as an ostrich, maybe worse.
  • GreenColoured#2445GreenColoured#2445 Registered Users Posts: 6,936

    The last thing this game needs is DLC worse than CoC. LLs should have their own bespoke and elaborate mechanics and come with unique-looking units.

    Also, YES Konrad.

    Believe it or not, not every single character in Warhammer are special enough to have "bespoke elaborate mechanics"...and that's perfectly fine. Some LL's just need to be a nice down to earth unit that's there to be a solid general you can bring along in some matches. Which in all honesty, is most likely whatever representative the Blood Dragons will get, while the more elaborate mechanic would probably go to Neferata.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,214

    The last thing this game needs is DLC worse than CoC. LLs should have their own bespoke and elaborate mechanics and come with unique-looking units.

    Also, YES Konrad.

    Believe it or not, not every single character in Warhammer are special enough to have "bespoke elaborate mechanics"...and that's perfectly fine. Some LL's just need to be a nice down to earth unit that's there to be a solid general you can bring along in some matches. Which in all honesty, is most likely whatever representative the Blood Dragons will get, while the more elaborate mechanic would probably go to Neferata.
    Eah... but if we're talking a CoC style DLC... than that would be a minimum. Good Campaign Mechanics... A Smattering of Reskins.

    If Konrad makes the game.. than sure... he can just be a fairly normal Vampire Count that rampages himself sometimes in combat.

    The Blood Dragons... they should come in as Undead Bretonnia with Undead Men-at-Arms, Skeletal Bowmen and Black Knights using the lance formation. Like their 6th edition roster.

    The Lhamians should maybe get some Slaaneshi style Vassal mechanics, and maybe Tomb King themed undead since she likes to decorate in that fashion.

    Necharchs should get some weird as hell Norscan Monster hunt or Rakarth style monster stuff... but undead... scary undead monsters.

    Voncharstines should get added to the Elector Count system.

    Strigoi should get a Ghoul Themed list that replaces the Skeletons with Ghouls and their 6th ed Charnal Guard should replace Grave Guard.
  • Ben1990#8909Ben1990#8909 Registered Users Posts: 2,869
    Why people want Wallach? He's a literal arse. I say give people Abhorash instead. He was literally cheated out of the End Times and getting his own rules and model. I would see him going around fighting people and learning completely new fighting techniques.
  • Guttrench#8929Guttrench#8929 Registered Users Posts: 115
    Honestly if they don’t have enough units to add into some race packs I’m more than happy to see extra legendary lords and heros brought into to supplement any large DLCs and reworks. Why have less when they can drown us in good stuff.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,214
    Ben1990 said:

    Why people want Wallach? He's a literal arse. I say give people Abhorash instead. He was literally cheated out of the End Times and getting his own rules and model. I would see him going around fighting people and learning completely new fighting techniques.

    Because Abhorash doesn't lead Nations and Doesn't raise armies... That's why.

    Wallach on the other hand is the closest thing to the Blood Line leader since Abhorash "retired"

    as for me... I'd advocate for someone else and probably the least popular option, Mallobaude.

    Mallobaude is heavily implied to be a Vampire... of some sort, he's tied up with the False Grail that may or may not be Wallach Harkon's missing Blood Chalice. Mallobaude is the 3rd in a line of Vampires with an "M" name that have tried to usurp the throne of Bretonnia. The 2nd one Merrovich was a confirmed Blood Dragon and both Maldred and Merrovich where also tied up in some form of "false" grail, Maldred's was confirmed to be an artifact of great power while Merrovich's was known as the Blood Grail. The 6th Edition Blood Dragon army list made it so you could take them as Undead Bretonnia.

    So in my mind Blood Dragons = Vampire Dukes of Bretonnia, its as simple as, but my position relies on a lot of implied as opposed to explicit lore connections.
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,145
    Walach Harkon was also a Mortarch so he can tie into Nagash.

  • GreenColoured#2445GreenColoured#2445 Registered Users Posts: 6,936

    Neferata with a similar mechanic of clan Eshin with shady deals and the ability to turn enemy human lords into Vampire thralls. Starts in Silver Pinnacle next to Ungrim.

    Turning enemy Human Lords into vampires doesn't work even a quarter as well as Belakor turning enemies into DPs. Becoming a daemon prince completely warps you into a new being, mannerism, appearance, etc. Like a caterpillar to a butterfly.

    Becoming a vampire though produces some physical changes, but you're very much still who you are before becoming a vampire. Unless CA is willing to make a vampire version of a brettonian, empire, kislev, Tilean, etc. I rather not have such a mechanic.


  • DarthEnderX-#6513DarthEnderX-#6513 Registered Users Posts: 4,742
    ArneSo said:

    Nah I speak for the community.

    Then you should say things they actually want more.
    "Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
  • taalisman01taalisman01 Registered Users Posts: 295
    OdTengri said:






    OdTengri said:

    Cortes31 said:



    Short summary:

    More atmosphere
    Base speed of Vampires should be in the fifties
    Not all units, like Crypt Ghouls for example, should crumble.

    4 new LL like CoC
    Neferata
    Walach
    The Everling
    Ushoran or Vorag

    LH: Aborash

    NO Konrad

    To add to the list:

    Varghulf
    Mortis Engine
    Black Coach

    are all flying units in Warhammer and should also be treated as such in this game.
    Can you point where it says Flying on these Unit profiles for the Varghulf or Mortis Engine?


    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mortis-engine-en.pdf
    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-varghulf-en.pdf

    also looking at the models, you can easily tell they could fly

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Vampire-Counts-Mortis-Engine
    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Flesh-Eater-Court-Varghulf-Courtier

    and even the rules you posted on the mortis engine has a picture of the mortis engine flying above the undead army.
    So... You present rules from a Game this one isn't based on.... and want me to read those ones...but refuse the read the rules that this game is actually based on and instead point to the pictures.

    Also no a Varghulf looks like it flies about as well as an ostrich, maybe worse.
    I hope you understand the point i am trying to make instead of going into a AoS vs WH tabletop discussion. That point is that a lot of the troops of the undead would be having a blast in this game when the rules of flying or Ethereal would be applied cosistent. What if an undead army just flew over or passed through the walls during a siege battle.
    Maybe this was all too powerful for the Vamp armies in game one, but with all the power creep, giving the units their original abilities would be very cool and also a very fun way to play as VC.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,214

    OdTengri said:



    OdTengri said:

    Cortes31 said:



    Short summary:

    More atmosphere
    Base speed of Vampires should be in the fifties
    Not all units, like Crypt Ghouls for example, should crumble.

    4 new LL like CoC
    Neferata
    Walach
    The Everling
    Ushoran or Vorag

    LH: Aborash

    NO Konrad

    To add to the list:

    Varghulf
    Mortis Engine
    Black Coach

    are all flying units in Warhammer and should also be treated as such in this game.
    Can you point where it says Flying on these Unit profiles for the Varghulf or Mortis Engine?


    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-mortis-engine-en.pdf
    https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-varghulf-en.pdf

    also looking at the models, you can easily tell they could fly

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Vampire-Counts-Mortis-Engine
    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Flesh-Eater-Court-Varghulf-Courtier

    and even the rules you posted on the mortis engine has a picture of the mortis engine flying above the undead army.
    So... You present rules from a Game this one isn't based on.... and want me to read those ones...but refuse the read the rules that this game is actually based on and instead point to the pictures.

    Also no a Varghulf looks like it flies about as well as an ostrich, maybe worse.
    I hope you understand the point i am trying to make instead of going into a AoS vs WH tabletop discussion. That point is that a lot of the troops of the undead would be having a blast in this game when the rules of flying or Ethereal would be applied cosistent. What if an undead army just flew over or passed through the walls during a siege battle.
    Maybe this was all too powerful for the Vamp armies in game one, but with all the power creep, giving the units their original abilities would be very cool and also a very fun way to play as VC.
    No I don't understand... you are suggesting that units that didn't have flying... gain flying... that doesn't sound consistent. The ethereal units are consistently represented the same way... none of them pass through walls... sounds like you just consistently don't like the way they are represented.
  • Maedrethnir#1968Maedrethnir#1968 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 17,219

    The last thing this game needs is DLC worse than CoC. LLs should have their own bespoke and elaborate mechanics and come with unique-looking units.

    Also, YES Konrad.

    Believe it or not, not every single character in Warhammer are special enough to have "bespoke elaborate mechanics"...and that's perfectly fine. Some LL's just need to be a nice down to earth unit that's there to be a solid general you can bring along in some matches. Which in all honesty, is most likely whatever representative the Blood Dragons will get, while the more elaborate mechanic would probably go to Neferata.
    I don't believe it. All characters are special enough to have bespoke and elaborate mechanics. There is no character around whose theme fancy campaign cannot be raised.
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 37,645

    So a 4 LL DLC with no units? Unless it was significantly cheaper than CoC I don't think it would good.

    Besides, he talks about how having 3 Von Carsteins is bad but then omits the fact that the Red Duke at some point will be made a full LL, making it 2 Blood Dragon LLs with Walach which repeats the same mistake.

    Red Duke FLC at some point gives us a Blood Dragon, a VC DLC with Neferata gives us a Lhamia, another DLC with Zacharias gives us a Necrarch and Vorag as another FLC gives us an Strigoi.

    as i said multiple times: make Wallach a bloodline LL for VC and the Duke a hybrid Bretonnian LL with access to a midex roster of living/undead bret units
    Indy and Sotek both neglected to mention the Red Duke entirely and I am also interested to hear how they'd differentiate him from the "main" Blood Dragon LL. I'm not sure why they chose to skip that part of their speculation. But the mixed Bretonnian stuff - isn't that Malloublade's whole shtick?
    Mallobaude isn’t a VC character. He would be a Bretonnia LL with limited access to VC stuff.

    Red Duke would be the other way around. VC LL with limited access to Bretonnia stuff.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • sandercohensandercohen Registered Users Posts: 525
    I'd like to see some new animations as well to differentiate vampire lords from empire generals, in terms of how they move and how they attack. Their animations should reflect their superhuman speed.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,849

    I'd like to see some new animations as well to differentiate vampire lords from empire generals, in terms of how they move and how they attack. Their animations should reflect their superhuman speed.

    I would buy a vampire DLC that did nothing but this.
    Space Frontier is a sci-fi themed board game I've designed for 2-4 players. Please take a look and enjoy our free Print-and-Play at FreezeDriedGames.com

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  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 37,645

    I'd like to see some new animations as well to differentiate vampire lords from empire generals, in terms of how they move and how they attack. Their animations should reflect their superhuman speed.

    Yes please. I hope Vamps get the Archaon treatment.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
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