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  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360
    edited October 2022


    The Empire doesn't need "significant" buffs, it needs some small precision buffs to certain units and better and more interesting heroes and generals.

    I don't think they need significant buffs, but I do think they need a lot of smaller ones. Such as:

    - Increased diplomacy options with elector factions: Give them join war, alliances, and vassal (including vassal on last settlement) options.

    - Faster access to elector count troops: With the new diplomacy options you should be able to unlock an electors state troops if you have a military alliance or hold vassal over an elector faction, provided they're holding that elector count position.

    - Faster refreshing of elector count troop pool: The summon elector count button should be unlocked if you hold, have a military alliance, or hold vassal over every elector count position. For anyone not aware you can reset the timer on elector count troops every 20 turns when clicking the summon elector count button.

    - Make the elector counts themselves unique lords: At the moment every elector count except Boris Todbringer is simply a named generic lord. They should either get better statlines, additional starting traits, or unique skills to differentiate them from said generic lords. They should also get unique unit cards, unique models, and start with their unique runefang.

    - More late game dilemmas to spend prestige on: Every playthrough leads to a massive bank of prestige by the mid-late game, there needs to be more ways to spend them. Also the "Guilded Opportunity" dilemma seems to be bugged or missing entirely as I haven't seen it appear once.

    - Imperial Authority should have more positive levels: I don't mind the initial difficult of the Empire campaign but there should be some levels of higher authority with buffs that mirror the negatives of lower levels. Such as +10 Imperial Authority "Absolute": +8 growth, +5 leadership, +4 control, +10% income from buildings, +10% chance of bonus fealty.

    - Generals and Captains should get a unique unlockable skill depending on the province they're recruited from. A general or captain recruited in Hochland might have the Experienced Hunter skill in their tree. Captains should get a demigryph mount.

    - Slight buff to some units. Swordsmen could get a melee defence buff to 34. Greatswords at minimum should have 100 armour, 30 speed, and 34 melee defence.

    That's about it. None of these are massive buffs, but would make the Empire far more interesting and dynamic.
    Post edited by Jarms48#7854 on
  • Pray#3234Pray#3234 Registered Users Posts: 1,606
    If you don't play multiplayer at all what is purpose of Empire General / Captain ? for Hold the line ? kekw
  • Cebo#5715Cebo#5715 Registered Users Posts: 107
    The Empire is a combined arms race and it plays and feels like that. To players that play other races by doomstacking, it might feel like they are weak, but they're fine. And when Middenheim DLC arrives and gives them even better frontline troops, they'll be ever more fun, but still a combined arms race.
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360
    Pray#3234 said:

    If you don't play multiplayer at all what is purpose of Empire General / Captain ? for Hold the line ? kekw

    Not even hold the line, as the other generals get it too. Lol.
  • saj1987#4378saj1987#4378 Registered Users Posts: 479
    Cathay is not only better but actually makes Empire look like a complete dumpster fire/joke.

    Cathay actually has a front line unlike the paper-state troops.
    Cathay artillery did better than the Empire artillery in my personal tests every time.
    Ranged infantry - Celestial Dragon Crossbows and Crane Gunners vs Crossbowmen and Handgunners lmao.
    Monsters - 10 MD Steam tank vs Terracota Sentinel lol.
    Cavalry - Demigryphs are better sure but Cathay has flying Cavalry.
    Lord buffs. Franz +15 armour to Greatjokes, I mean swords just in his army, Cathay - either a global armour or ammo buff, not even going to mention how strong the lords themselves are.

    I want to like the Empire but they are SO bad I hate them.
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,678

    Pray#3234 said:

    If you don't play multiplayer at all what is purpose of Empire General / Captain ? for Hold the line ? kekw

    Not even hold the line, as the other generals get it too. Lol.
    Hold the Line is also a 35m buff.

    Tactician on the Lord Magistrate, the Cathay lord you don't bother with because the other one is better, is +5MD/+5 Reload mapwide and has an upgraded form.
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360

    Cathay is not only better but actually makes Empire look like a complete dumpster fire/joke.

    Cathay actually has a front line unlike the paper-state troops.
    Cathay artillery did better than the Empire artillery in my personal tests every time.
    Ranged infantry - Celestial Dragon Crossbows and Crane Gunners vs Crossbowmen and Handgunners lmao.
    Monsters - 10 MD Steam tank vs Terracota Sentinel lol.
    Cavalry - Demigryphs are better sure but Cathay has flying Cavalry.
    Lord buffs. Franz +15 armour to Greatjokes, I mean swords just in his army, Cathay - either a global armour or ammo buff, not even going to mention how strong the lords themselves are.

    I want to like the Empire but they are SO bad I hate them.

    I mean, State Troops could just use some minor buffs. Such as:
    - Increase armour to 35, which means 50 after armour research.
    - Increase leadership to 70, in-line with Halberdiers.
    - Increase Swordsmen Melee Defence to 34, in-line with Spearmen.
    - Increase Greatswords armour to 100, melee defence to 34, and speed to 30.
    - Drop Grand Cannons to tier III.

    Done, that basically fixes most of their issues.
  • HarveyJames#1968HarveyJames#1968 Registered Users Posts: 376
    how do you get 20 armour by just standing still?.. that sounds dumb AF why do their basic troops get same 100 armour as chaos warriors do?
    CA please give us Shogun Multi layer wall Sieges back along with Roles/Fog of war we want EPIC sieges!! 'personally i think the 3 kingdoms style of building armies is the best for balance alongside stronger unit roles and larger unit sizes' also allowing Chars too specialise in range/siege in particular in skills/traits..
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360

    how do you get 20 armour by just standing still?.. that sounds dumb AF why do their basic troops get same 100 armour as chaos warriors do?

    Who gets 20 armour by standing still? No idea what you’re referring too.

    Greatswords are elite soldiers and already have 95 armour. It’s literally an increase of 5.
  • demonisbest#1950demonisbest#1950 Registered Users Posts: 264



    I mean, State Troops could just use some minor buffs. Such as:
    - Increase armour to 35, which means 50 after armour research.
    - Increase leadership to 70, in-line with Halberdiers.
    - Increase Swordsmen Melee Defence to 34, in-line with Spearmen.
    - Increase Greatswords armour to 100, melee defence to 34, and speed to 30.
    - Drop Grand Cannons to tier III.

    Done, that basically fixes most of their issues.

    No changes to Steam Tank?
  • ravonlineravonline Registered Users Posts: 142
    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.
  • GloatingSwine#8098GloatingSwine#8098 Registered Users Posts: 2,678

    how do you get 20 armour by just standing still?.. that sounds dumb AF why do their basic troops get same 100 armour as chaos warriors do?

    Who gets 20 armour by standing still? No idea what you’re referring too.

    Greatswords are elite soldiers and already have 95 armour. It’s literally an increase of 5.
    Nobody.

    Jade Warriors get 10 armour and some charge resistance/impule resistance from standing still.

    Greatswords should go to speed 30 but the real problem with them is that they don't get the right bonuses from techs or skills.

    They just get moar armour from pretty much everything that buffs them, and that's not useful enough. They need to go into the infantry group in the redline so they get some MA/MD to let them scale better, they need to at least drop to only requiring the tier 2 armoury to build (Halberdiers shouldn't require it at all).

    Adding an extra tech for them to give them even more MA would be nice too. They can scale MD way harder than MA. I think Halberdiers get better MA by the time they're fully upgraded.


    No changes to Steam Tank?

    Maybe buff that 8% ward save it gets to 10%? Steam Tanks are fine, their only real bad matchups are Shades, Shaggoths, Waywatchers, and Zoats, and they've got a generous health pool in a faction that gets life wizards. If you're having problems with steam tanks the problem isn't the tanks.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 2,074
    edited October 2022
    I'd love a WoC style LP myself with four LLs for The Empire each getting a melee and cavalry unit that fits them.

    My pick
    Marius Leitdorf
    Emil Valgier
    Magritta of Marienburg
    Doktor Alexandra Giliani

    But there are alot off characters in the lore to choose from.

    As well as giving Franz, Kurt Helborg and
    Ludwig Schwarzhelm as personal LHs and updating Boris both mechanic wise and with a reskin/ginger beard maybe make him a proper LL as well.

    I know that's a big ask but I'd be happy with that




  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,745
    Timpeyo said:

    I'd love a WoC style LP myself with four LLs for The Empire each getting a melee and cavalry unit that fits them.

    My pick
    Marius Leitdorf
    Emil Valgier
    Magritta of Marienburg
    Doktor Alexandra Giliani

    But there are alot off characters in the lore to choose from.

    As well as giving Franz, Kurt Helborg and
    Ludwig Schwarzhelm as personal LHs and updating Boris both mechanic wise and with a reskin/ginger beard maybe make him a proper LL as well.

    I know that's a big ask but I'd be happy with that

    Please no. I don't want more low quality unit spam.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • saj1987#4378saj1987#4378 Registered Users Posts: 479
    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.


    But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better. Comments like this will keep the empire a dumpsterfire lol. Swordsmen are hands down better than jade warriors. Sure.
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360

    No changes to Steam Tank?

    Steam Tank just needs vigour loss removed.
  • kaiki_utokyo#9006kaiki_utokyo#9006 Registered Users Posts: 617
    edited October 2022
  • Pray#3234Pray#3234 Registered Users Posts: 1,606
    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.

    This probably most none sense argument in this thread , WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPIRE DUDE NOT JUST REIKLAND .
  • vormaerin#1910vormaerin#1910 Registered Users Posts: 234
    Well, I think Markus is pretty solid. Volkmar's problem is just that the book hunt mechanic is not done in a way I find interesting.

    So you have KF and Gelt who use the core Empire mechanic and mostly fight the same foes. They would benefit from some revision of the Authority mechanic to better match WH3's changes.

    My question with most of the suggestions for new empire content is "how would they actually produce different gameplay?" I don't consider starting one province over to be a change worth caring about. And most of the units being brought up seem to be flavor mods to existing stuff.

    The only thing that ever frustrated me about the empire army was the awful speed of their cavalry and the greatswords just not being good at much of anything. I hated the 66 speed on empire knights. That's been corrected (possibly over corrected, to be honest). The greatswords could use some tweaks, but I think that could be done with the lord, faction, and tech trees rather than the unit itself.
  • ravonlineravonline Registered Users Posts: 142
    Pray#3234 said:

    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.

    This probably most none sense argument in this thread , WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPIRE DUDE NOT JUST REIKLAND .
    Normally I wouldn't take offense at comments such as yours but seeing as I have a few thousand h in wh2 with the Empire and half a thousand in wh3 mostly with Empire factions all on L/VH I think I know what I am talking about. The Empire is very strong. Always was. And yes they nerfed the hell out of Reikland in WH3 due to early game changes so Reikland is the hardest campaign. But in terms of units, unit diversity and abilities, not to even mention heroes and single entities [the Empire is one of the few factions in the game that has a truly wide variety of possible doomstacks] the Empire is just hands down better. If you know what you are doing. And mentioning swordsmen is silly - they are a unit you should almost never ever recruit with the Empire - ever. Just fyi.
  • saj1987#4378saj1987#4378 Registered Users Posts: 479
    ravonline said:

    Pray#3234 said:

    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.

    This probably most none sense argument in this thread , WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPIRE DUDE NOT JUST REIKLAND .
    Normally I wouldn't take offense at comments such as yours but seeing as I have a few thousand h in wh2 with the Empire and half a thousand in wh3 mostly with Empire factions all on L/VH I think I know what I am talking about. The Empire is very strong. Always was. And yes they nerfed the hell out of Reikland in WH3 due to early game changes so Reikland is the hardest campaign. But in terms of units, unit diversity and abilities, not to even mention heroes and single entities [the Empire is one of the few factions in the game that has a truly wide variety of possible doomstacks] the Empire is just hands down better. If you know what you are doing. And mentioning swordsmen is silly - they are a unit you should almost never ever recruit with the Empire - ever. Just fyi.
    Go down a narrow street where you can use your mortar to shoot a unit that won't shoot back. That proves the Empire is strong. Gotcha. Swordsmen being garbage (as you said, never recruit them) makes the Empire strong. OK.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 497

    No changes to Steam Tank?

    Steam Tank just needs vigour loss removed.
    As well as 70 - 90 missle resitance and the steam tank should be the best chariot in the game because of its weight.
  • KIT#5531KIT#5531 Registered Users Posts: 497
    ravonline said:

    Pray#3234 said:

    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.

    This probably most none sense argument in this thread , WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPIRE DUDE NOT JUST REIKLAND .
    Normally I wouldn't take offense at comments such as yours but seeing as I have a few thousand h in wh2 with the Empire and half a thousand in wh3 mostly with Empire factions all on L/VH I think I know what I am talking about. The Empire is very strong. Always was. And yes they nerfed the hell out of Reikland in WH3 due to early game changes so Reikland is the hardest campaign. But in terms of units, unit diversity and abilities, not to even mention heroes and single entities [the Empire is one of the few factions in the game that has a truly wide variety of possible doomstacks] the Empire is just hands down better. If you know what you are doing. And mentioning swordsmen is silly - they are a unit you should almost never ever recruit with the Empire - ever. Just fyi.
    The Empire is one of the weakest factions in the game. You can compare its units to ohters and they are all bad. Of course Trashswords are not as good as Blackorcs but there is no reason why they are so much worse than the inf. of Kislev and Chatyna.
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360

    Well, I think Markus is pretty solid. Volkmar's problem is just that the book hunt mechanic is not done in a way I find interesting.

    Markus has frustrating mechanics. Hostility never ends and builds up in combat outside of Lustria. Though I haven't tested Markus after the patch, so maybe he's better now.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,745

    ravonline said:

    Pray#3234 said:

    ravonline said:

    Actually, the issue with Reikland is that most people have serious issues getting a good start. But if you do manage to get a good start then Reikland is much much more powerful. Just as a simple example: if you keep the barracks in Altdorf you can start recruiting crossbows by turn 5 [or 6 without a noble]. And that's a mid-game unit and you can have a full stack by turn 10...

    So no, Cathay is not better than Reikland. Not even going to mention the unbelievable power of Empire artillery which again you can access very early on if you know what you are doing.

    There's a written tutorial and a video I posted on these forums on how to get a good start with Reikland on Legendary/VH. Here's a link to the written tutorial https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/323871/reikland-tutorial-how-to-save-hochland-and-defeat-the-separatists-at-the-same-time-by-turn-5#latest

    But I will grant the OP one thing: Reikland is finicky to start. If you are noob-ish or new-ish to Reikland or Warhammer you will have a difficult time. But the Empire mechanics and units are just hands down better and once again if you know what you are doing - you can access mid game units very very early on.

    This probably most none sense argument in this thread , WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPIRE DUDE NOT JUST REIKLAND .
    Normally I wouldn't take offense at comments such as yours but seeing as I have a few thousand h in wh2 with the Empire and half a thousand in wh3 mostly with Empire factions all on L/VH I think I know what I am talking about. The Empire is very strong. Always was. And yes they nerfed the hell out of Reikland in WH3 due to early game changes so Reikland is the hardest campaign. But in terms of units, unit diversity and abilities, not to even mention heroes and single entities [the Empire is one of the few factions in the game that has a truly wide variety of possible doomstacks] the Empire is just hands down better. If you know what you are doing. And mentioning swordsmen is silly - they are a unit you should almost never ever recruit with the Empire - ever. Just fyi.
    Go down a narrow street where you can use your mortar to shoot a unit that won't shoot back. That proves the Empire is strong. Gotcha. Swordsmen being garbage (as you said, never recruit them) makes the Empire strong. OK.
    Do you actually think this is a response to that comment? Because you didn't even come close homie.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Tennisgolfboll#5877Tennisgolfboll#5877 Registered Users Posts: 13,481
    Not even all the power creep catmay have gotten saves them from being boring beyond belief.
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