Engineers Guild and Legendary Hero DLCs for Dwarfs

Cebo#5715

For general idea why I choose the rosters, look into my first entry and its intro:
The Empire DLCs
Greenskins DLCs

The gist of it is that I like sub factions that have a theme (if possible) and that there are way too many characters left in the lore to be added as legendary lords (LLs) so each legendary lord should have its own legendary hero (LH). By the time of that last LH DLC, making most of the heroes is mostly kit bashing, cause models and animation rigs are all in the game which should keep things under budget.

Dwarfs are a race that haven't got a lot of attention from CA. In game two, they received a repurposed Tomb Kings crafting mechanic which I like, but it needs updating in game 3 which has introduced item fusing, making the mechanic less impactful. They also got Giant Slayers unit, Thorek and redoing the way rune magic works. Despite that, there's not that many units left from 8th edition to implement, so I'll have to dig into various supplements and rpg stuff.

A large and important part of the dwarf society and army are engineers, who aren't represented in the game by LLs or LHs, despite having a majority of their units in the game. One of the other important sub factions are slayers, which have a lord and units in game, but are still not represented fully. All those things are going to be addressed in the two DLCs that I believe Dwarfs should get.

1. Engineers Guild DLC

• Legendary Lord: Burlok Damminson, Guildmaster of the Engineering Guild, mount: Thunderbarge.
  Support lord: Fire while moving, ranged and melee hybrid, armed with dwarf pistol and drakefire pistol, in melee - hammer and mechanical arm.
  
  
• Generic Lord: Longbeard Engineer, mount: Gyrocopter - both variants, Gyrobomber.
  Armed with Handgun and Drakegun, in melee - Coghammer.
  
  
• Generic Hero: Dragon Slayer, mount: none.
  
  
• Units: Thunderbarge, Thunderers (grudge-rakers), Mountaineers (with blunderbusses, love their models), Irondrakes (Drakefire Pistols), Steam Drills (crowd control, AOE damage weapons team), Goblin-Hewer (very short range, high AP, anti infantry weapons team), Swivel Guns (fast reacting, large firing arc, medium range, defensive weapons team).

- note: the difference between thunderers (grudge-rakers) and mountaineers is that the first are a shielded, medium armored, fire from behind the lines unit and the second are a flanker, lightly armored, fast for a dwarf, stalking unit. Both have a “decent melee combatant” description, but Mountaineers also have some AP, being armed with picks in melee (like miners).

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Sven Hasselfriesan, mounts: none.
  Crank Gun and Trollhammer Torpedo, in melee – one handed hammer.
  
  
• Units: Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns (weapons team).

Sven is an Outcast Engineer who traveled to Lustria. He’s the reason why Burlok lost his arm. He buffs all weapon teams and gets his unique Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

Total War Access FLC

• Generic Lord: Daemon Slayer, mount: none.

2. LH and Longbeards DLC

• Legendary Lord: Kazador Thunderhorn, King of Karak Azul, mount: Shield Bearers.
  Ranged and melee hybrid with crossbow and dual hammers
  
  
• Unit: Donarkhun Greatbeards

Kazador’s a very anti Greenskins lord. He buffs regular dwarfs – Dwarf Warriors and Longbeards. Also, comes with Donarkhun Greatbeards, an elite Longbeard unit (axe and shield and great weapon variants) armed by famous Karak Azul weapon smiths, available only to him as a campaign only unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

• Generic Lord: Ol’ Deadeye (ranger lord), mount: none.
  Fire while moving ranged lord, crossbow and throwing axe. Mount: none.
  
  
• Generic Hero: Brewmaster, mount: Beer Cart (a very old model).
  Crossbow armed support hero
  
  
• Units: Rune Guardians, Doomseekers.

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Josef Bugman, mount: Beer Cart.
  Support lord with a crossbow and hand axe. He buffs brewmaster heroes and Bugman’s Ranger units.
  Beer Cart drawn by ponies is not a chariot, but a support unit. Similar to Corpse Cart for Vampires, but not that slow.

- note: all generic lords and heroes already in the game should get their missing mounts.

Legendary Heroes:

• Thorgrim Grudgebearer – Kragg the Grimm, mount: Anvil of Doom. He’s the Master Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak.
  
  
• Ungrim Ironfist - Malakai Makaisson, mount: Thunderbarge. Slayer Engineer armed with brace of pistols, grenade launcher and handaxe in melee.
  
  
• Belegar Ironhammer – no legendary hero. Already has his hero squad.
  
  
• Grombrindal – The White Dwarf - Godri Thunderbrand, mount: Shield Bearers. No connection, but Grombrindal deserves a LH with such a nice model.
  
  
• Thorek Ironbrow - Grombold Kruddsson, mount: none. A miner LH. No connection, but Thorek loves all things traditional and what’s more traditional than mining.
  
  
• Burlok Damminson - Grimm Burloksson, mount: Gyrocopter - both variants, Gyrobomber. Burlok’s son and a talented Master Engineer armed with grudge-raker, handgun and cog axe in melee.
  
  
• Sven Hasselfriesan - Juggo Joriksonn, mount: none. Sven’s friend who’s a Norse Dwarf Berserker, armed with a great axe.
  
  
• Kazador Thunderhorn - Prince Kazrik, mount: none. Kazador’s son and and a mad Doomseeker, armed with dual axes.
  
  
• Josef Bugman – no legendary hero, instead he gets his hero squad. Skeggi Threkkson, mount: none, Thane; Bazrak Bolgan, mount: beer cart, Brewmaster; Grim “Dead Eye” Grunnson, mount: none, Slayer Pirate; Durzak Dragonback, mount: Shield Bearers, Thane.

That’s it for Dwarfs. Though I like sub factions, there’s very little info on the Norse Dwarfs and what is available is old and out of date. They could be added, but it’d be just reskinned regular dwarf units, sans the engineering stuff and plus war mammoths. I like sub factions that play differently, not just cause they’re reskinned.

Shard Dragon is a no no from me. The units just don’t fit the dwarf aesthetic and gameplay and I don’t care who collared it in the lore. There are already many, many dragons in the game. Besides, there’s already a collared lizard in the game for dwarfs – Thorek’s Carnosaur. Deathroller is from Blood Bowl and also doesn’t fit the dwarven (mostly) unmounted and bunker gameplay style.

Lastly, the way CA could fit all those LHs is cause mostly they use existing assets. Shard Dragon and Deathroller would cost too many charlemagnes which could be spent way more cost effectively than on units that’s don’t fit the theme. Rune guardians are different, because with the fact in mind that they fit dwarfs better, they also badly need some kind of monstrous infantry to block cavalry, monsters and chariots running amok through their lines.

If dwarfs are to get only one DLC, then I’d cut out Sven, cut LH Godri and make instead Josef a LH for Grombrindal, cut crank gunners and maybe one more weapons team and combine the rest into one big DLC, like Champions of Chaos.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

1. Engineers Guild DLC

Legendary Lord: Burlok Damminson, Guildmaster of the Engineering Guild, mount: Thunderbarge.
Support lord: Fire while moving, ranged and melee hybrid, armed with dwarf pistol and drakefire pistol, in melee - hammer and mechanical arm.

Generic Lord: Longbeard Engineer, mount: Gyrocopter - both variants, Gyrobomber.
Armed with Handgun and Drakegun, in melee - Coghammer.

Generic Hero: Dragon Slayer, mount: none.

Units: Thunderbarge, Quarrelers (grudge-rakers), Mountaineers (with blunderbusses, love their models), Irondrakes (Drakefire Pistols), Steam Drills (crowd control, AOE damage weapons team), Goblin-Hewer (very short range, high AP, anti infantry weapons team), Swivel Guns (fast reacting, large firing arc, medium range, defensive weapons team).

- note: the difference between quarrelers (grudge-rakers) and mountaineers is that the first are a shielded, medium armored, fire from behind the lines unit and the second are a flanker, lightly armored, fast for a dwarf, stalking unit. Both have a “decent melee combatant” description, but Mountaineers also have some AP, being armed with picks in melee (like miners).

Grimm Burloksson, (Burlok's son) is a better fit as a LL, as he is from 8th edition and more known/popular

Burlok on the other hand should be Zufhbar's acting Lord while his son is on an expedition (With confederation quest)

Quarrelers use Crossbows, not guns, you're thinking Thunderer Grudge-Rackers, Mountaineers, are old lore that is not needed anymore (If needed just renamed a Ranger unit with Grudge Racker with it), on the same hand, Swivel guns are the same, mostly unneeded, and there are more fun/usefull things to get.

FLC

Legendary Lord: Sven Hasselfriesan, mounts: none.
Crank Gun and Trollhammer Torpedo, in melee – one handed hammer.

Units: Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns (weapons team).

Sven is an Outcast Engineer who traveled to Lustria. He’s the reason why Burlok lost his arm. He buffs all weapon teams and gets his unique Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

Who should at most be a Minor Faction Lord or a Rogue Army (Most fitting with Sven's expedition)

2. LH and Longbeards DLC

Legendary Lord: Kazador Thunderhorn, King of Karak Azul, mount: Shield Bearers.
Ranged and melee hybrid with crossbow and dual hammers

Unit: Donarkhun Greatbeards

Kazador’s a very anti Greenskins lord. He buffs regular dwarfs – Dwarf Warriors and Longbeards. Also, comes with Donarkhun Greatbeards, an elite Longbeard unit (axe and shield and great weapon variants) armed by famous Karak Azul weapon smiths, available only to him as a campaign only unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

Generic Lord: Ol’ Deadeye (ranger lord), mount: none.
Fire while moving ranged lord, crossbow and throwing axe. Mount: none.

Generic Hero: Brewmaster, mount: Beer Cart (a very old model).
Crossbow armed support hero

Units: Rune Guardians, Doomseekers.

If we get a second (Well 3rd) dlc for the Dwarf, it should be either Rune themed or Slayer themed (If it's not mixed with the Engineering). The Dwarf don't need a "LH" dlc, no one does.

that there are way too many characters left in the lore to be added as legendary lords (LLs) so each legendary lord should have its own legendary hero (LH).

Not every character on the TT should come in game, and if they need to come, many should just be regular Lord or heroes with special names for defined factions (Eg: Alrik Ranulfsson)

So Personal Dlc line up:

Dlc1: The Wrath and the Grudge
LL: Grimm Burloksson
LH: Malakai
GL: Guild Master Engineer and Guild Master Ranger/Brewer
GH: Dragon Slayer
Units: (Cost to make)
Thunderer with Grudge Rackers (Cheap)
Irondrake with Drake Pistol (Cheap)
Deathroller (Medium)
Steam Drill Miner (Medium)
Thunderbarge (Charlemagne)
Doomseeker (Charlemagne)

FLC:
LL: Josef Bugman

Rework:
GL: Daemon Slayer


And if we get a second dlc down the line:

Dlc2:
LL: Kragg the Grim
Mostly Rework stuff
Units:
Rune Golem (Charlemagne)
Rune Giant (Charlemagne)
Shard Dragon (Charlemagne)
Steam Golem/Exosuits (Charlemagne)

No Flc, as the other race would most likely need it.

Captain_Rex#1635

Sven as a LL??? Nope, he’s a complete nobody and wouldn’t add anything.

All the Dawi need is Grimm, Bugman and Malakai.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

ArneSo#7705 said:

Sven as a LL??? Nope, he’s a complete nobody and wouldn’t add anything.

All the Dawi need is Grimm, Bugman and Malakai.

He would work quite beautifully as a Rogue Army to be honest:

Dwarf Lord (Guild Master Engineer)
Has access to:
- Slayer
- Giant Slayer
- High Elf Archers
- Norse Marauder

#568367

Hell to the no.


Not every faction needs LH, especially that many. In fact the vast majority of characters in WH never fit as LH, most are better fit as LL.

Cebo#5715

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

Quarrelers use Crossbows, not guns, you're thinking Thunderer Grudge-Rackers, Mountaineers, are old lore that is not needed anymore (If needed just renamed a Ranger unit with Grudge Racker with it), on the same hand, Swivel guns are the same, mostly unneeded, and there are more fun/usefull things to get.

Yeah, my bad about quarrelers, gonna have to fix that.

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

If we get a second (Well 3rd) dlc for the Dwarf, it should be either Rune themed or Slayer themed (If it's not mixed with the Engineering). The Dwarf don't need a "LH" dlc, no one does.

On the contrary, everyone needs it.

As for your list, deatroller? Cmon

ArneSo#7705 said:

Sven as a LL??? Nope, he’s a complete nobody and wouldn’t add anything.

All the Dawi need is Grimm, Bugman and Malakai.

Outcast engineers fit neatly in the Engineering guild DLC, plus then there's a a reson for having a LL in Lustria. Malakai is an even bigger nobody, but for some ungodly reson he's become so popular and a must pick in peoples minds.

Cebo#5715

GreenColoured said:

Hell to the no.


Not every faction needs LH, especially that many. In fact the vast majority of characters in WH never fit as LH, most are better fit as LL.

You can't field that many armies, even without supply lines. And you guys need to think like Oprah - you get a LH and you get a LH and you get a LH.

Seriously, tho. Every lords needs its own LH. The gameplay gods demand it.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

Cebo#5715 said:

GreenColoured said:

Hell to the no.


Not every faction needs LH, especially that many. In fact the vast majority of characters in WH never fit as LH, most are better fit as LL.

You can't field that many armies, even without supply lines. And you guys need to think like Oprah - you get a LH and you get a LH and you get a LH.

Seriously, tho. Every lords needs its own LH. The gameplay gods demand it.

You demand it, the Gameplay God doesn't exist.

Implanting Legendary Heroes on the par of Kroak, Ghoritch, Ariel for each lord would take a lot of time. Tiem that could be used somewhere else.

As for your list, deatroller? Cmon

Yes

Cebo#5715

But they're not on par cause for almost all of mine LHs, the assets are already in the game. No need for fancy animations and models. I'll take 6 LHs of that kind over 1 flashy any time cause they'll add so much more to gameplay and replayability.

Also, when you've mentioned Ghoritch, the lore experts here keep correcting me who's more popular and should be - LL or LH - Ghoritch was a snippet in WD, a lord choice and his model is a rat ogre onto which some guy glued on 40k ork arms. And yet, he's in the game, before some other characters are and it's glorious.

WhySoSalty#3990

dude no offense your lists are pretty good but as i said before the game dont need such a LH orgy

WhySoSalty#3990

Cebo#5715 said:

But they're not on par cause for almost all of mine LHs, the assets are already in the game. No need for fancy animations and models. I'll take 6 LHs of that kind over 1 flashy any time cause they'll add so much more to gameplay and replayability.

Also, when you've mentioned Ghoritch, the lore experts here keep correcting me who's more popular and should be - LL or LH - Ghoritch was a snippet in WD, a lord choice and his model is a rat ogre onto which some guy glued on 40k ork arms. And yet, he's in the game, before some other characters are and it's glorious.

YOU would take 6 reskins over 1 actuall big SPECIAL name. luckily you are pretty much alone with this opinion.

LH supposed to be something unique. some races like Empire have quite a number of possible LH like Jubal, Luthor Huss, Schwarzhelm, Bruckner etc but pretty much every other race is more than good with 1-2 max 3 LH.

Example: DE: Kouran, Shadowblade. done .....LM: Kroak, Chakax. done period, WE: Ariel, Scarloc. done and so on. you would probably dig for names without any models or even official artwork and praise them as "big names" here

At this point it feels like youre just writing down all the names you could find on the warhammer fantasy wiki. some of them with less than half a page of lore

And they would add nothing to the gameplay but a big chaotic number of unnecessary names and too much work for the devs

Rheingold#6691

One LH is more than enough. Malakai would be ideal. Grimm as LL, Bugman as flc.
That would be all the lords they need. No one else would add anything different to the roster.
Add generic engi lord and daemonslayers are a must with all the daemons. I'd honestly prefer it if Daemonslayers were hero's as opposed to lords. An anti large, dps hero would be veerrry useful for the dawi roster. Yes, I guess you could add a dragon slayer instead and have daemon slayers as a lord option but its kinda doubling up on units unnecessarily when CA could add something else instead. And ofc there is the slayers don't lead armies thing.

overtaker40#8926

I don't know why you would use the fuse mechanic when you get way more reliabilty and quality by destroying the items you don't like for oathgold and making something for the purpose.

Even if fuse was amazing I disagree that it has reduced the quality of the crafting mechanic.

Cebo#5715

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

dude no offense your lists are pretty good but as i said before the game dont need such a LH orgy

None taken. When I'm doing the LL and units list, I try to give the faction what it's missing (especially if it has an unused sub faction) and to round out the roster. When I'm doing the LH part, I'm making the list of what I would like to see and think that it would greatly improve the gameplay. There will be more lists like these, feel free to ignore the LH part.

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

YOU would take 6 reskins over 1 actuall big SPECIAL name. luckily you are pretty much alone with this opinion.

I put the big names on my list of LHs too. Look at them again. As for them being big and flashy, that wears off quickly, but quality gameplay is permanent.
Vlad and Isabella are not some big flashy models like Ariel, but CA did a great job making them each own LH.

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

LH supposed to be something unique. some races like Empire have quite a number of possible LH like Jubal, Luthor Huss, Schwarzhelm, Bruckner etc but pretty much every other race is more than good with 1-2 max 3 LH.

Mine are unique too. CA would have to make unique models for all of them, but skeletons and animations (the most time consuming and expensive part) would already be in the game. And more importantly, their uniqueness would come from their special abilities and skill trees.

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

Example: DE: Kouran, Shadowblade. done .....LM: Kroak, Chakax. done period, WE: Ariel, Scarloc. done and so on. you would probably dig for names without any models or even official artwork and praise them as "big names" here

Ghoritch was a nobody, Repanse was a nobody, Alberic was a nobody yet here they are. Big names are fine, and I put them in my lists of LH as much as possible, but others are fine too. Forums and reddit luckily don't decide who is a worthy name and who isn't.

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

At this point it feels like youre just writing down all the names you could find on the warhammer fantasy wiki. some of them with less than half a page of lore

And they would add nothing to the gameplay but a big chaotic number of unnecessary names and too much work for the devs

Do aim for more.

If before champions of chaos came out, I were to list all the new content we would get by CA making models on existing skeletons and animations, I would have been also shot down by the concerned CA budgeteers of the forum, yet here we are with so much new stuff.

Ben1990#8909

Cebo#5715 said:

For general idea why I choose the rosters, look into my first entry and its intro:
The Empire DLCs
Greenskins DLCs

The gist of it is that I like sub factions that have a theme (if possible) and that there are way too many characters left in the lore to be added as legendary lords (LLs) so each legendary lord should have its own legendary hero (LH). By the time of that last LH DLC, making most of the heroes is mostly kit bashing, cause models and animation rigs are all in the game which should keep things under budget.

Dwarfs are a race that haven't got a lot of attention from CA. In game two, they received a repurposed Tomb Kings crafting mechanic which I like, but it needs updating in game 3 which has introduced item fusing, making the mechanic less impactful. They also got Giant Slayers unit, Thorek and redoing the way rune magic works. Despite that, there's not that many units left from 8th edition to implement, so I'll have to dig into various supplements and rpg stuff.

A large and important part of the dwarf society and army are engineers, who aren't represented in the game by LLs or LHs, despite having a majority of their units in the game. One of the other important sub factions are slayers, which have a lord and units in game, but are still not represented fully. All those things are going to be addressed in the two DLCs that I believe Dwarfs should get.

1. Engineers Guild DLC

• Legendary Lord: Burlok Damminson, Guildmaster of the Engineering Guild, mount: Thunderbarge.
  Support lord: Fire while moving, ranged and melee hybrid, armed with dwarf pistol and drakefire pistol, in melee - hammer and mechanical arm.
  
  
• Generic Lord: Longbeard Engineer, mount: Gyrocopter - both variants, Gyrobomber.
  Armed with Handgun and Drakegun, in melee - Coghammer.
  
  
• Generic Hero: Dragon Slayer, mount: none.
  
  
• Units: Thunderbarge, Quarrelers (grudge-rakers), Mountaineers (with blunderbusses, love their models), Irondrakes (Drakefire Pistols), Steam Drills (crowd control, AOE damage weapons team), Goblin-Hewer (very short range, high AP, anti infantry weapons team), Swivel Guns (fast reacting, large firing arc, medium range, defensive weapons team).

- note: the difference between quarrelers (grudge-rakers) and mountaineers is that the first are a shielded, medium armored, fire from behind the lines unit and the second are a flanker, lightly armored, fast for a dwarf, stalking unit. Both have a “decent melee combatant” description, but Mountaineers also have some AP, being armed with picks in melee (like miners).

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Sven Hasselfriesan, mounts: none.
  Crank Gun and Trollhammer Torpedo, in melee – one handed hammer.
  
  
• Units: Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns (weapons team).

Sven is an Outcast Engineer who traveled to Lustria. He’s the reason why Burlok lost his arm. He buffs all weapon teams and gets his unique Outcast Engineers with Crank Guns unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

Total War Access FLC

• Generic Lord: Daemon Slayer, mount: none.

2. LH and Longbeards DLC

• Legendary Lord: Kazador Thunderhorn, King of Karak Azul, mount: Shield Bearers.
  Ranged and melee hybrid with crossbow and dual hammers
  
  
• Unit: Donarkhun Greatbeards

Kazador’s a very anti Greenskins lord. He buffs regular dwarfs – Dwarf Warriors and Longbeards. Also, comes with Donarkhun Greatbeards, an elite Longbeard unit (axe and shield and great weapon variants) armed by famous Karak Azul weapon smiths, available only to him as a campaign only unit (like Alith Anar gets Shadow Walkers).

• Generic Lord: Ol’ Deadeye (ranger lord), mount: none.
  Fire while moving ranged lord, crossbow and throwing axe. Mount: none.
  
  
• Generic Hero: Brewmaster, mount: Beer Cart (a very old model).
  Crossbow armed support hero
  
  
• Units: Rune Guardians, Doomseekers.

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Josef Bugman, mount: Beer Cart.
  Support lord with a crossbow and hand axe. He buffs brewmaster heroes and Bugman’s Ranger units.
  Beer Cart drawn by ponies is not a chariot, but a support unit. Similar to Corpse Cart for Vampires, but not that slow.

- note: all generic lords and heroes already in the game should get their missing mounts.

Legendary Heroes:

• Thorgrim Grudgebearer – Kragg the Grimm, mount: Anvil of Doom. He’s the Master Runelord of Karaz-a-Karak.
  
  
• Ungrim Ironfist - Malakai Makaisson, mount: Thunderbarge. Slayer Engineer armed with brace of pistols, grenade launcher and handaxe in melee.
  
  
• Belegar Ironhammer – no legendary hero. Already has his hero squad.
  
  
• Grombrindal – The White Dwarf - Godri Thunderbrand, mount: Shield Bearers. No connection, but Grombrindal deserves a LH with such a nice model.
  
  
• Thorek Ironbrow - Grombold Kruddsson, mount: none. A miner LH. No connection, but Thorek loves all things traditional and what’s more traditional than mining.
  
  
• Burlok Damminson - Grimm Burloksson, mount: Gyrocopter - both variants, Gyrobomber. Burlok’s son and a talented Master Engineer armed with grudge-raker, handgun and cog axe in melee.
  
  
• Sven Hasselfriesan - Juggo Joriksonn, mount: none. Sven’s friend who’s a Norse Dwarf Berserker, armed with a great axe.
  
  
• Kazador Thunderhorn - Prince Kazrik, mount: none. Kazador’s son and and a mad Doomseeker, armed with dual axes.
  
  
• Josef Bugman – no legendary hero, instead he gets his hero squad. Skeggi Threkkson, mount: none, Thane; Bazrak Bolgan, mount: beer cart, Brewmaster; Grim “Dead Eye” Grunnson, mount: none, Slayer Pirate; Durzak Dragonback, mount: Shield Bearers, Thane.

That’s it for Dwarfs. Though I like sub factions, there’s very little info on the Norse Dwarfs and what is available is old and out of date. They could be added, but it’d be just reskinned regular dwarf units, sans the engineering stuff and plus war mammoths. I like sub factions that play differently, not just cause they’re reskinned.

Shard Dragon is a no no from me. The units just don’t fit the dwarf aesthetic and gameplay and I don’t care who collared it in the lore. There are already many, many dragons in the game. Besides, there’s already a collared lizard in the game for dwarfs – Thorek’s Carnosaur. Deathroller is from Blood Bowl and also doesn’t fit the dwarven (mostly) unmounted and bunker gameplay style.

Lastly, the way CA could fit all those LHs is cause mostly they use existing assets. Shard Dragon and Deathroller would cost too many charlemagnes which could be spent way more cost effectively than on units that’s don’t fit the theme. Rune guardians are different, because with the fact in mind that they fit dwarfs better, they also badly need some kind of monstrous infantry to block cavalry, monsters and chariots running amok through their lines.

If dwarfs are to get only one DLC, then I’d cut out Sven, cut LH Godri and make instead Josef a LH for Grombrindal, cut crank gunners and maybe one more weapons team and combine the rest into one big DLC, like Champions of Chaos.

Kragg The Grim is not a hero, but a lord. He's the eldest Runelord in the entire Karaz-A-Karak. Thorek's only rival.

Making him a hero is foolish.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

I want Malakai as DLC LL.

Cebo#5715

Ben1990#8909 said:

Kragg The Grim is not a hero, but a lord. He's the eldest Runelord in the entire Karaz-A-Karak. Thorek's only rival.

Making him a hero is foolish.

So what, he stays out of the game because of that or we needlesly get another runelord LL?

Plenty of heroes so far have been made into lords and vice versa. And you could do the same in TT.

Captain_Rex#1635

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

But they're not on par cause for almost all of mine LHs, the assets are already in the game. No need for fancy animations and models. I'll take 6 LHs of that kind over 1 flashy any time cause they'll add so much more to gameplay and replayability.

Also, when you've mentioned Ghoritch, the lore experts here keep correcting me who's more popular and should be - LL or LH - Ghoritch was a snippet in WD, a lord choice and his model is a rat ogre onto which some guy glued on 40k ork arms. And yet, he's in the game, before some other characters are and it's glorious.

YOU would take 6 reskins over 1 actuall big SPECIAL name. luckily you are pretty much alone with this opinion.

LH supposed to be something unique. some races like Empire have quite a number of possible LH like Jubal, Luthor Huss, Schwarzhelm, Bruckner etc but pretty much every other race is more than good with 1-2 max 3 LH.

Example: DE: Kouran, Shadowblade. done .....LM: Kroak, Chakax. done period, WE: Ariel, Scarloc. done and so on. you would probably dig for names without any models or even official artwork and praise them as "big names" here

At this point it feels like youre just writing down all the names you could find on the warhammer fantasy wiki. some of them with less than half a page of lore

And they would add nothing to the gameplay but a big chaotic number of unnecessary names and too much work for the devs

I agree with this so much. 1-2 LHs is enough. They should be something unique and the only race getting 4-5 LHs should be the Empire with Valten, Bruckner, Huss, Falk and Schwarzhelm.

But the others are perfectly fine with 1-2.

Hell Dwarfs and GS actually don’t need LHs at all.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

Cebo#5715 said:

Ben1990#8909 said:

Kragg The Grim is not a hero, but a lord. He's the eldest Runelord in the entire Karaz-A-Karak. Thorek's only rival.

Making him a hero is foolish.

So what, he stays out of the game because of that or we needlesly get another runelord LL?

Plenty of heroes so far have been made into lords and vice versa. And you could do the same in TT.

Either we get 1 dlc 1 flc

Then have:
Grimm Burloksson as LL (Faction: Engineer Expedition)
Malakai as LH (Faction: Engineer Expedition)
Burlok Damnisson as Minor Faction leader (Faction: Zufhbar)

Bugman as Flc LL (Faction: Bugman's Tankard)
Gitguzler as Minor Faction Leader (as he currently is)

If possible:
Red Brokk as Minor Faction leader (Grimnir's Thunder) for the VCoast quest/race and/or Hackart quest enemy.

If we get a second dlc:
Kragg the Grim

Captain_Rex#1635

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Ben1990#8909 said:

Kragg The Grim is not a hero, but a lord. He's the eldest Runelord in the entire Karaz-A-Karak. Thorek's only rival.

Making him a hero is foolish.

So what, he stays out of the game because of that or we needlesly get another runelord LL?

Plenty of heroes so far have been made into lords and vice versa. And you could do the same in TT.

Either we get 1 dlc 1 flc

Then have:
Grimm Burloksson as LL (Faction: Engineer Expedition)
Malakai as LH (Faction: Engineer Expedition)
Burlok Damnisson as Minor Faction leader (Faction: Zufhbar)

Bugman as Flc LL (Faction: Bugman's Tankard)
Gitguzler as Minor Faction Leader (as he currently is)

If possible:
Red Brokk as Minor Faction leader (Grimnir's Thunder) for the VCoast quest/race and/or Hackart quest enemy.

If we get a second dlc:
Kragg the Grim

Kragg should never be a LL. He would add absolutely nothing next to Thorek.

Bugman, Grimm and Malakai as LLs. Done.

Cebo#5715

Can anybody explain to me the Malakai fascination? Sure, he'd be a good legendary hero, but making him a legendary lord for engineers when there's plenty of better choices is baffling.

Captain_Rex#1635

Cebo#5715 said:

Can anybody explain to me the Malakai fascination? Sure, he'd be a good legendary hero, but making him a legendary lord for engineers when there's plenty of better choices is baffling.

He wouldn’t be the engineer LL. That’s Grimms thing.

He would be an airforce LL with ground support from slayers. It’s just helluva fun.

Think about Tiktaqto but for the Dwarfs. Ahhh what a refreshing and flexible campaign that would be.

Cebo#5715

ArneSo#7705 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Can anybody explain to me the Malakai fascination? Sure, he'd be a good legendary hero, but making him a legendary lord for engineers when there's plenty of better choices is baffling.

He wouldn’t be the engineer LL. That’s Grimms thing.

He would be an airforce LL with ground support from slayers. It’s just helluva fun.

Think about Tiktaqto but for the Dwarfs. Ahhh what a refreshing and flexible campaign that would be.

Burlok (the real leader) or Grimm for engineers, Throgrim is the leader of the slayer cult, that doesn't leave much room for others. And Malakai's only thunderbarge crashed, not really a paragon of dwarf flying. He's more known for artillery and invention of Goblin-Hewer and as such woul fit great as Thorgrim's legendary hero.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Cebo#5715 said:

Can anybody explain to me the Malakai fascination? Sure, he'd be a good legendary hero, but making him a legendary lord for engineers when there's plenty of better choices is baffling.

Slayer, cool, Engineer, cool, directly connected to the best remaining stuff, cool.

There are no better choices.

Captain_Rex#1635

Cebo#5715 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Can anybody explain to me the Malakai fascination? Sure, he'd be a good legendary hero, but making him a legendary lord for engineers when there's plenty of better choices is baffling.

He wouldn’t be the engineer LL. That’s Grimms thing.

He would be an airforce LL with ground support from slayers. It’s just helluva fun.

Think about Tiktaqto but for the Dwarfs. Ahhh what a refreshing and flexible campaign that would be.

Burlok (the real leader) or Grimm for engineers, Throgrim is the leader of the slayer cult, that doesn't leave much room for others. And Malakai's only thunderbarge crashed, not really a paragon of dwarf flying. He's more known for artillery and invention of Goblin-Hewer and as such woul fit great as Thorgrim's legendary hero.

It’s absolut battle gameplay.

Burlok is a nobody and shouldn’t be in the game at all. Grimm would basically play like the VCoast. You have a frontline of Steam Golems to blob the enemy. Then a second line of ranged infantry and finally a backline of tons of artillery. It would be fun but still very very very static and basically like
You already play the Dwarfs.

Malakai would offer something fresh and new. A very offensive and flexible army with mainly flyers and some Slayers on the Ground.

And then Ungrim is only Slayers and Slayer stuff. Pure infantry.

You see? All these 3 LLs don’t overlap at all and have their own very unique niche.

Cebo#5715

ArneSo#7705 said:

It’s absolut battle gameplay.

Burlok is a nobody and shouldn’t be in the game at all. Grimm would basically play like the VCoast. You have a frontline of Steam Golems to blob the enemy. Then a second line of ranged infantry and finally a backline of tons of artillery. It would be fun but still very very very static and basically like
You already play the Dwarfs.

Malakai would offer something fresh and new. A very offensive and flexible army with mainly flyers and some Slayers on the Ground.

And then Ungrim is only Slayers and Slayer stuff. Pure infantry.

You see? All these 3 LLs don’t overlap at all and have their own very unique niche.

Grimm Burloksson is one of my favorite models from Warhammer Fantasy, but Burlok is the leader of the engineers guild, has a backstory and TT model. He should be the leader of the faction that he's leading. If you're not familiar with the character or he has an older model (khm khm Azazel), that doesn't mean he's a nobody. And then at the same time insist on another nobody like Malakai.

Imagine Reikland being led by Kurt Helborg or Karaz-a-Karak by Kragg the Grimm. There's no way.

Captain_Rex#1635

Dwarfs need 2 LPs for their 2 missing themes:
- Engineering
- Slayers (has a whole army list)

Grimm LP:
- Guildmaster Lord (Gunpowder Lord)
- Steam Golems
- Steam Rollers
- Grudge Rakers

Malakai LP:
- Daemonslayer Lord
- Dragonslayer Hero
- Thunderbarge
- Doomseekers
- Goblin Hewers
- Slayer Pirates

White Dwarf Promo:
- Josef Bugman + Brewmaster Hero

The issue is that without Malakai, how would you add all the missing Slayer stuff? It doesn’t fit for Grimm who should come with Tech units.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Cebo#5715 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

It’s absolut battle gameplay.

Burlok is a nobody and shouldn’t be in the game at all. Grimm would basically play like the VCoast. You have a frontline of Steam Golems to blob the enemy. Then a second line of ranged infantry and finally a backline of tons of artillery. It would be fun but still very very very static and basically like
You already play the Dwarfs.

Malakai would offer something fresh and new. A very offensive and flexible army with mainly flyers and some Slayers on the Ground.

And then Ungrim is only Slayers and Slayer stuff. Pure infantry.

You see? All these 3 LLs don’t overlap at all and have their own very unique niche.

Grimm Burloksson is one of my favorite models from Warhammer Fantasy, but Burlok is the leader of the engineers guild, has a backstory and TT model. He should be the leader of the faction that he's leading. If you're not familiar with the character or he has an older model (khm khm Azazel), that doesn't mean he's a nobody. And then at the same time insist on another nobody like Malakai.

Imagine Reikland being led by Kurt Helborg or Karaz-a-Karak by Kragg the Grimm. There's no way.

Malakai isn't a nobody. He's the best DLC LL choice.

We've literally got a silent meat mountain in Nakai as a DLC LL. Y'all can't tell me Malakai isn't high up enough to lead.

Captain_Rex#1635

Cebo#5715 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

It’s absolut battle gameplay.

Burlok is a nobody and shouldn’t be in the game at all. Grimm would basically play like the VCoast. You have a frontline of Steam Golems to blob the enemy. Then a second line of ranged infantry and finally a backline of tons of artillery. It would be fun but still very very very static and basically like
You already play the Dwarfs.

Malakai would offer something fresh and new. A very offensive and flexible army with mainly flyers and some Slayers on the Ground.

And then Ungrim is only Slayers and Slayer stuff. Pure infantry.

You see? All these 3 LLs don’t overlap at all and have their own very unique niche.

Grimm Burloksson is one of my favorite models from Warhammer Fantasy, but Burlok is the leader of the engineers guild, has a backstory and TT model. He should be the leader of the faction that he's leading. If you're not familiar with the character or he has an older model (khm khm Azazel), that doesn't mean he's a nobody. And then at the same time insist on another nobody like Malakai.

Imagine Reikland being led by Kurt Helborg or Karaz-a-Karak by Kragg the Grimm. There's no way.

You can’t have either. Adding both Burlok and Grimm is unnecessary bloat. That’s what you have to understand. Burloks mini is ancient and he’s just another melee LL. Spamming characters like this doesn’t add anything.

LLs have to offer something new. A new battle role or a new playstyle or a new Theme.

Burlok wouldn’t add anything to the game. Absolutely nothing.

Malakai isn’t a nobody. He has a model, rules, is part of the Slayer list and most importantly is a fan favourite from the G&F novels.

Like I said, Grimm, Malakai, Bugman. Done.

Cebo#5715

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 said:

Malakai isn't a nobody. He's the best DLC LL choice

Yeah he is, if you get your "who's who in Warhammer" important lore facts from forums.

WhySoSalty#3990

can we just agree that the game 1 races (VC, Empire and Dwarfs) are in a **** sad stage and need a lot of work and missing names and stop the "my character is cooler than your and need to be in the game" discussion?