Lahmian Sisterhood and Legendary Hero DLCs for Vampire Counts

Cebo#5715

For general idea why I choose the rosters, look into my first entry and its intro:
The Empire DLCs
Greenskins DLCs
Dwarfs DLCs

The gist of it is that I like sub factions that have a theme (if possible) and that there are way too many characters left in the lore to be added as legendary lords (LLs) so each legendary lord should have its own legendary hero (LH). By the time of that last LH DLC, making most of the heroes is mostly kit bashing, cause models and animation rigs are all in the game which should keep things under budget.

If you disagree with the “every LL gets a LH” idea, that stuff is in the end of the list and feel free to skip it.

Vampire Counts are another race that hasn't had a DLC since game one. They were reworked in game 2, giving them Bloodlines faction mechanic and a kit bashed generic vampire lord for each of the bloodlines. For game three, they received a minor mechanic update, units adjustment and mornguls unit type. Luckily for them, because of how they play, the vampires are one of the factions that is least impacted by not having a large unit variety. Their gameplay revolves around powerful vampire lords, surrounded by meat shields and a few elites for draining and/or deliver the finishing punch. And when you have meat shields, you don’t need that many varieties of them, which is lucky, because they don’t have that many left from 8th edition.

So I’d like to see minimal addition to the regular unit roster, no new generic lords added, and more of a focus on legendary lords and bloodline units, to add to the flavor. Every bloodline should have to be represented by its own LL and every bloodline should get two units from their own bloodline, as campaign only type of units. They should be reskinned or kit bashed units to keep the costs down and they would be unlocked by upgrading their bloodline paths. Then they would be added to the raise dead pool of only their bloodline lord type, generic or legendary.
For example, when you upgrade awaken 2 and 3 of the Necrarch bloodline, they would be added to the raise dead unit pool of only the Necrarch lords.

1. Lahmian Sisterhood DLC

• Legendary Lord: Neferata, Queen of the Lahmians, mount: Barded Nightmare, Hellsteed, Red Coven – a named Coven Throne.
  Legendary lord built around diplomacy, ambushing and debuffing in combat. She should have the "Swain" ability that for it's duration makes an enemy hero turn to your side. All Lahmian vampire lords should get unit seduction mechanic too.
  
  
• Units: Coven Throne – faster and way more capable in melee than Mortis Engine, does not drain, has enchanting beauty that makes enemies lower their weapons - they lose their charge defence and debuffs armor piercing damage.
  Abyssal Terror – single model, sniper type monster, like great eagle, Spirit Host – fast mover, stop-gap meat shield with less health than zombies because of that.

Bloodline units:

• Blood Dragon units: Dismounted Blood Knigths, Ordo Draconis Knights
  
• Von Carstein units: Drakenhof Guard, Knights Sepulchral
  
• Lahmian Units: Green Skulls, Lahmian Handmaidens (unit riding hellsteeds)
  
• Necrarch Units: Patchwork Men (reskinned Animated Hulks), Necrarch Acolytes (unit riding Abyssal Terrors)
  
• Strigoi Units: Crypt Ghasts, Vargoyles
  
• Units for Kemmler, Ghorst, generic necromancer lords and generic vampire lords, added to raise dead pool after any bloodline gets updated (cause they don't have their own): Glooms, Giant Bats

FLC

• Legendary Lord: The Red Duke, mount: Barded Nightmare, Hellsteed, Zombie Dragon.
  Already in the game as a powerful duelist lord, buffs Blood Knight units and Black Grail Knights, who he gets instead of Ordo Draconis Knights
  
  
• Unit: Black Grail Knights

2. LH and Necrarch DLC

• Legendary Lord: Zacharias the Everliving, mount: Barded Nightmare, Abyssal Terror, Zombie Dragon.
  The strongest caster Vampire Lord, buffs Abyssal Terrors and regular Vampire heroes by giving them Abyssal Terror and Zombie Dragon mounts and can recruit Zombie Dragons without riders as his unique campaign unit.
  
  
• Unit: Zombie Dragon
  
  
• Generic Hero: Winged Vampire, mount: none.
  A flying, anti large and character sniper hero.

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Gashnag the Black Prince, mount: Terrorgheist.
  Stalking, anti large lord that buffs Mournguls and has his own Strigany peasant levy units, reflecting the connection Strigoi and Strigany have, as well as Gashnag’s little fiefdom he made for himself.
  
  
• Unit: Strigany (Peasant Bowmen with poison and Mounted Yeoman Archers)

Legendary Heroes:

• Mannfred – Konrad von Carstein, mount: none. Violent lunatic and infantry blender. Died, but let’s say he returned, like Vlad.
  
• Heinrich Kemmler – none. He has Krell, who should be a propper LH.
  
• Vlad & Isabella – none. They are each other’s LH.
  
• Helman Ghorst – Whispering Nell. They are from the same source book.
  
• Neferata - Khemalla of Lahmia, mount: Barded Nightmare, Hellsteed, Zombie Dragon. Emissary of the Lahmian Sisterhood.
  
• Zacharias - Dieter Helsnicht, mount: Skeletal Steed, Nightmare, Corpse Cart (all variants), Manticore. No connection, let’s say that he came to study under the great vampire wizard. It’s the only way he’ll turn up in the game.
  
• Gashnag – Prince Rametep, mount: none. Strigoi vampire specialized in ghoul type units.
  
• Red Duke – Walach Harkon, mount: Barded Nightmare. Grand Master of the Order of the Blood Dragon.

-note: all lords and heroes should get their missing mounts.

This is all for the Vampire Counts. Mythical lords like Abhorash or Ushoran are better to be left out. I would have loved to add Walach Harkon as a LL, but CA decided to go with the Red Duke instead for blood knights’ stuff, but I added him as a LH to at least be able to show up in the game (same as Helsnicht). Morghasts and Dread Abbysals are better left for Nagash stuff, plus, I don’t like their design – they don’t fit with the gothic style of Vampire Counts units and look to me very AoS-y.

I haven’t added Grave Guard with halberds, because not having elite halberd infantry should be their faction weakness. If they get them too, they’ll be unstoppable, at least the way this faction is balanced currently. If that changes, then they should be added. Every faction should have its strengths and weaknesses.

If Vampire Counts are to get only one DLC, then I'd cut Zacharias and Gashnag, cut bloodline units, but some of them should be regular units for every lord and combine it all in one big DLC.

Captain_Rex#1635

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

Cebo#5715

As usual I have to say to you that there can never be waaaay to much of good content.

SerPus#7395

Cebo#5715 said:

As usual I have to say to you that there can never be waaaay to much of good content.

Shoehorning things where they don't belong is hardly good content. Dieter Helsnicht and especially Walach Harkon are not LH material.

Cebo#5715

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

SerPus#7395

Cebo#5715 said:

if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game.

How do you know that?

Cebo#5715

Read the sentence before that.

SerPus#7395

Cebo#5715 said:

Read the sentence before that.

Just because there are two necromancers in the game doesn't mean that CA can't or won't add more. Same goes to Walach. Just because there is Red Duke (kinda) in the game, doesn't mean that Walach can't come.

Cebo#5715

If there were 12 legendary lord slots per race, then maybe. But I'd like to see legendary lords of other bloodlines, not more necromancers.

SerPus#7395

Cebo#5715 said:

If there were 12 legendary lord slots per race, then maybe.

There is no evidence that such thing as 'legendary lord slots' even exist.

Cebo#5715

Sigh

Captain_Rex#1635

Cebo#5715 said:

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

That’s why people suggest him as a LL for the Undead Legion.

If not there, he shouldn’t come at all. But the Doomlord should definitely not be a LH.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

Undead are gonna get more content that's as sure as the grave is cold.

But this series really bring very unneeded options:

Dlc 1 + Flc: Quite good, though the Swains should be stolen LH, not simply a way to make a turncoat for a small time.

I don't really understand what the Ordo Draconis mean here, since they are the Blood Dragon now (Since they were turned and later thrown to the winds)

Dlc2: To many unneeded hero, or some that don't really matter enough to be considered LH

Like Wispering Nells, basically just a named Banshee, so just give him a Banshee with a fixed name

Dieter Helsnicht: Better suited as a LL for the possible Nagash Race Dlc

Ramethep: No link to Gashnag other than being of te same Bloodline, most appropriate way to put him in game would be as a Rogue Army near Remas (iirc)

Walach should either not appear, or replace the Red Duke (Or have the Red Duke downgrade as LH) but not serve as LH himself

But in total I expect 5 total Dlc for the Undead side, with pretty much no LH

VCount1: Neferata + Red Duke (Vs Cathay)
Tomb King: Apophas (Vs Kislev)
VCoast (Vs Nurgle, with Spume, or Cathay)
Race Pack2/3: Overlord of Death (Nagash, Nameless, Dieter, maybe a 4th from Cathay to spread them out)
VCount2: Zacharias (Vs Tzeentch) + Strigoi

Cebo#5715

ArneSo#7705 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

That’s why people suggest him as a LL for the Undead Legion.

I won't exclude him on an off chance he could be a lord in Undead Legion.

ArneSo#7705 said:

If not there, he shouldn’t come at all. But the Doomlord should definitely not be a LH.

Who should and shouldn't be legendary hero becomes a point of contention in every thread, mostly by people whose favorite character didn't make the LL cut... for a game where Arel is a hero while Ghorst and Tretch are lords.

WhySoSalty#3990

no matter how many times ppl tell you that your lists are nonsense with that unnecessary LH orgy youre still think its a great idea. and this time you really put Helsnicht and Wallach in your LH list.
Would like to dislike multiple times

WhySoSalty#3990

ArneSo#7705 said:

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

unpopular opinion but i would prefer to see Abhorash as a LH for Bretonnia

Cebo#5715

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

no matter how many times ppl tell you that your lists are nonsense with that unnecessary LH orgy youre still think its a great idea. and this time you really put Helsnicht and Wallach in your LH list.
Would like to dislike multiple times

As I've said multiple times, I'm making the list I want to see, not a list to please a few self appinted experts here. If I did make that kind of a list, that would be a godawful attempt, from what I've seen of their counter proposals and the way I have to repeat the same things over and over.

Cebo#5715

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

unpopular opinion but i would prefer to see Abhorash as a LH for Bretonnia

Ah, yes. From the mind that brought you...

Heretical_Cactus#7598

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

unpopular opinion but i would prefer to see Abhorash as a LH for Bretonnia

I think Abhorash should be a Quest Legendary Hero who either start as Bretonnian and can be brought back to the VCount (so as Bretonnian you need to "feed" him Chivalry/Honour) or who can be unlocked by a race of sort

Captain_Rex#1635

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

unpopular opinion but i would prefer to see Abhorash as a LH for Bretonnia

I want Bretonnia to also get a „bar“ that goes into the opposite direction of Chivalry. And just like you get the Green Knight with a certain amount of chivalry, it would be nice to unlock Abhorash with a certain amount of „Anti Chivalry“. This would be particularly nice with Mallobaude as an Antagonist LL for Bretonnia.

Ideally Ab would be a LH for both VC and Brets.

Ahhh there is still such a long road to go for both VC and Bretonnia….

WhySoSalty#3990

Cebo#5715 said:

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

no matter how many times ppl tell you that your lists are nonsense with that unnecessary LH orgy youre still think its a great idea. and this time you really put Helsnicht and Wallach in your LH list.
Would like to dislike multiple times

As I've said multiple times, I'm making the list I want to see, not a list to please a few self appinted experts here. If I did make that kind of a list, that would be a godawful attempt, from what I've seen of their counter proposals and the way I have to repeat the same things over and over.

if you want to make a list YOU want to see there is no need to post it on a PUBLIC forum. make it in your head or your personal diary. At the end of the day this is a discussion forum and 99% of the ppl here told you that such an amount of LH is an goddamn awful idea

WhySoSalty#3990

Cebo#5715 said:

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

ArneSo#7705 said:

As usual, waaaay to many LHs.

Konrad, Abhorash, Naaima. Done.

unpopular opinion but i would prefer to see Abhorash as a LH for Bretonnia

Ah, yes. From the mind that brought you...

read his lore before you try to be a ****. He literally sweared an oath to Gillet and his people and at the same time was ashamed to be a vampire. So yeah ideally he would be a LH for both but he fits into Bretonnia even more than VC

WhySoSalty#3990

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

Undead are gonna get more content that's as sure as the grave is cold.

But this series really bring very unneeded options:

Dlc 1 + Flc: Quite good, though the Swains should be stolen LH, not simply a way to make a turncoat for a small time.

I don't really understand what the Ordo Draconis mean here, since they are the Blood Dragon now (Since they were turned and later thrown to the winds)

Dlc2: To many unneeded hero, or some that don't really matter enough to be considered LH

Like Wispering Nells, basically just a named Banshee, so just give him a Banshee with a fixed name

Dieter Helsnicht: Better suited as a LL for the possible Nagash Race Dlc

Ramethep: No link to Gashnag other than being of te same Bloodline, most appropriate way to put him in game would be as a Rogue Army near Remas (iirc)

Walach should either not appear, or replace the Red Duke (Or have the Red Duke downgrade as LH) but not serve as LH himself

But in total I expect 5 total Dlc for the Undead side, with pretty much no LH

VCount1: Neferata + Red Duke (Vs Cathay)
Tomb King: Apophas (Vs Kislev)
VCoast (Vs Nurgle, with Spume, or Cathay)
Race Pack2/3: Overlord of Death (Nagash, Nameless, Dieter, maybe a 4th from Cathay to spread them out)
VCount2: Zacharias (Vs Tzeentch) + Strigoi

the 4th from Cathay would be Harakhte. In a perfect world he would be actually the 4th LL in a Nagash racepack with Nameless and Helnicht and would bring a kinda new bloodline: the jade vampires.
But the Undead have so many possible characters left. CA would need a bigger map to put them all in so the 4 bloodlines and something alongside Nagash would be already great

MODIDDLY1#9212

Cebo#5715 said:

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

Personally, If lords can't be implemented properly, in the factions they belong to, I would rather they just not come.

Rheingold#6691

Walach wouldn't be serving the red duke. He should either be in the game as a LL or not at all.
Again way to many hero's. Honestly adding any 'named' character doesn't really add much to the rosters. Quality over quantity anytime. Having said that, I do hope Abhorash makes it into the game somehow. Though it is unlikely.

Osprey#3500

Queen Khalida needs Neferata's head.

Cebo#5715

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

if you want to make a list YOU want to see there is no need to post it on a PUBLIC forum. make it in your head or your personal diary. At the end of the day this is a discussion forum and 99% of the ppl here told you that such an amount of LH is an goddamn awful idea

You sure aren't telling me what I should or shouldn't post here, get over yourself.

But I've been thinking and seeing how triggered pearl clutchers like yourself hijack every post away from the most important thing in the list - lords, heroes and units - because of the LHs, I'll be making future lists without LHs and when I'm done, I'll post one last list with all the LH choices for the rest that didn't get them.

MODIDDLY1#9212 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

Personally, If lords can't be implemented properly, in the factions they belong to, I would rather they just not come.

Ok, I'd still prefer to see them, at least as LHs, if there's no other way to include them.

Let's take Helsnicht for example. His Doomlord's Host doesn't have any unique units or noteworthy units (apart from Screaming Skull Catapults which are already in game) that would differentiate him (like Kemmler, for example) from other necromancer lords. He plagued the northern empire form his base in forest of shadows and it's a tiny, already filled out area in the Immortal Empires that there would be no place for him there, though CA could place him somewhere else. But Zacharias the Everliving is in that forest too, and he would be a more unique LL to be put there.

The only thing Helsnicht has going for himself is that he's the only necormancer with a manticore mount and while admit that's cool, would it be such a loss if they make him a LH instead of a LL?

Oh, and in the end times, which CA hasn't touched so far (and I hope they don't), Nagash made him a Mortarch.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

Cebo#5715 said:

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

if you want to make a list YOU want to see there is no need to post it on a PUBLIC forum. make it in your head or your personal diary. At the end of the day this is a discussion forum and 99% of the ppl here told you that such an amount of LH is an goddamn awful idea

You sure aren't telling me what I should or shouldn't post here, get over yourself.

But I've been thinking and seeing how triggered pearl clutchers like yourself hijack every post away from the most important thing in the list - lords, heroes and units - because of the LHs, I'll be making future lists without LHs and when I'm done, I'll post one last list with all the LH choices for the rest that didn't get them.

No he mean that you shouldn't post it here if you do are not gonna complain that people don't support your idea. Grow a spine and ignore (us) them

Cebo#5715 said:

MODIDDLY1#9212 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

There are two necromancer legendary lords already in the game, if not as legendary hero, Helsnicht won't turn up in the game. I'd rather have him as a LH than not at all. Same goes for Harkon.

Personally, If lords can't be implemented properly, in the factions they belong to, I would rather they just not come.

Ok, I'd still prefer to see them, at least as LHs, if there's no other way to include them.

Let's take Helsnicht for example. His Doomlord's Host doesn't have any unique units or noteworthy units (apart from Screaming Skull Catapults which are already in game) that would differentiate him (like Kemmler, for example) from other necromancer lords. He plagued the northern empire form his base in forest of shadows and it's a tiny, already filled out area in the Immortal Empires that there would be no place for him there, though CA could place him somewhere else. But Zacharias the Everliving is in that forest too, and he would be a more unique LL to be put there.

The only thing Helsnicht has going for himself is that he's the only necormancer with a manticore mount and while admit that's cool, would it be such a loss if they make him a LH instead of a LL?

Oh, and in the end times, which CA hasn't touched so far (and I hope they don't), Nagash made him a Mortarch.

People don't want the Nagash/Nameless/Dieter group for new units, they want it for new mechanics

Overlord of Undeath could have a way to confederate the other Undeath factions, taking over from them and getting their armies

So they don't need many units, only mechanics.

Cebo#5715

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

No he mean that you shouldn't post it here if you do are not gonna complain that people don't support your idea. Grow a spine and ignore (us) them

If you don't agree you don't agree, say it, that's why we're here for, I don't mind that. If you or a group of a few people don't agree with something, that's doesn't mean it should be excluded forever from the conversation. You're not the authority here or a censor.

And then saying not to post any more because you favorite choice didn't end up where you think that he, by god, should be or having too many LHs, come on... Any growing that needs to be done is growing up.

Heretical_Cactus#7598 said:

People don't want the Nagash/Nameless/Dieter group for new units, they want it for new mechanics

Overlord of Undeath could have a way to confederate the other Undeath factions, taking over from them and getting their armies

So they don't need many units, only mechanics.

Noted. If CA wants to add him to Nagash faction, that's perfectly ok. And if not, and he's not going to end up in the game as a LL, I'd still prefer to get him as a LH than not at all.

Maedrethnir#1968

Give me unique-looking Dread Abyssals. Neferata should have access to Nagadron.

Cebo#5715

WhySoSalty#3990 said:

the 4th from Cathay would be Harakhte. In a perfect world he would be actually the 4th LL in a Nagash racepack with Nameless and Helnicht and would bring a kinda new bloodline: the jade vampires.
But the Undead have so many possible characters left. CA would need a bigger map to put them all in so the 4 bloodlines and something alongside Nagash would be already great

I missed this one. That's a valid argument, but seeing as vampire counts have more than enough characters left and have their more known, gothic and victorian age inspired, vampire bloodlines, I'd prefer the Jade Bloodline to be part of the Vampire Coast who could really use them for their DLC.