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Give the dwarfs a proper DLC also... THIS! It needs to be in game! Make it happen CA!
i rather take the somewhat loreful rune guardinas, rune golems and a fast shard dragon over this
Why not all of those? Plus the much requested Thunderbarge, the War Balloons as a cheaper alternative to the former, the Goblin Hewer but mass-produced and not limited to Malakai only, as well as the Juggernaut? Not to mention the rest of the Slayer Cult with Dragon Slayer Heroes, Daemon Slayer Lords and Doomseekers (and no, Doomseekers aren't anti-infantry but anti-EVERYTHING).
You just got a rework and Thorek. Back in line with you Stunti. Shush!
Lol this reminds of the time when Dawi fans argued that they deserve a Lp and rework more than BM do…
The audacity of Dawi fans is unmatched honestly.
Thorek sadly doesn't count as much as the Yolked Carnosaur he has. Thorek should've been a DLC character instead of a FLC one.
Not to mention that one rework was literally adding in the Tomb King's Mortuary Cult mechanic and reskin it for the Dwarfs. Then we get another rework but it only adds some extra skills for certain characters and runes to be forged in the aforementioned reskin of a mechanic. And even then those are only limited.
I could not agree more. He was my most wanted Dwarf LL and CA did him dirty. There's a pattern here.
At least there is still Kragg around that can be a good DLC character if they do him right.
Give the dwarfs a proper DLC also... THIS! It needs to be in game! Make it happen CA!
i rather take the somewhat loreful rune guardinas, rune golems and a fast shard dragon over this
Why not all of those? Plus the much requested Thunderbarge, the War Balloons as a cheaper alternative to the former, the Goblin Hewer but mass-produced and not limited to Malakai only, as well as the Juggernaut? Not to mention the rest of the Slayer Cult with Dragon Slayer Heroes, Daemon Slayer Lords and Doomseekers (and no, Doomseekers aren't anti-infantry but anti-EVERYTHING).
You just got a rework and Thorek. Back in line with you Stunti. Shush!
Lol this reminds of the time when Dawi fans argued that they deserve a Lp and rework more than BM do…
The audacity of Dawi fans is unmatched honestly.
Thorek sadly doesn't count as much as the Yolked Carnosaur he has. Thorek should've been a DLC character instead of a FLC one.
Not to mention that one rework was literally adding in the Tomb King's Mortuary Cult mechanic and reskin it for the Dwarfs. Then we get another rework but it only adds some extra skills for certain characters and runes to be forged in the aforementioned reskin of a mechanic. And even then those are only limited.
It’s still a great FLC. Dawi can wait a bit and VC, Norsca and the Empire need some love before.
Dwarfs should get 2 LPs eventually tho. They simply aren’t the highest priority.
They damn better be. Especially that the Dawi-Zharr, once they appear, will be one hell of a roid-ride when the two clash. And mind you the Chaos Dwarfs will roll out with some crazy.
I have a grudge to settle with several people on this thread. Anyone who thinks that the rune magic changes were anything but a massive nerf, has peach fuzz for a beard!
The aesthetics of rune magic was improved, but the effectiveness in battle was severely hampered. Many runes went from AOE to single unit targeting. All went from local to global cooldowns so you can't use a burst of abilities. Only Thorek's army is buffed enough to use rune magic to great effect. Legend considers it to be the worst magic in the game by far. I agree with him.
The dwarfs need better buffs to their artillery. Especially in the anti-artillery roll. They need the range buff returned to the engineer and better accuracy to counter enemy artillery.
The infantry definitely need silver shields. I get very grudgy when I see silver shields on so many inferior units before my dwarfs get them.
I have a grudge to settle with several people on this thread. Anyone who thinks that the rune magic changes were anything but a massive nerf, has peach fuzz for a beard!
The aesthetics of rune magic was improved, but the effectiveness in battle was severely hampered. Many runes went from AOE to single unit targeting. All went from local to global cooldowns so you can't use a burst of abilities. Only Thorek's army is buffed enough to use rune magic to great effect. Legend considers it to be the worst magic in the game by far. I agree with him.
The dwarfs need better buffs to their artillery. Especially in the anti-artillery roll. They need the range buff returned to the engineer and better accuracy to counter enemy artillery.
The infantry definitely need silver shields. I get very grudgy when I see silver shields on so many inferior units before my dwarfs get them.
Yeah the engi range nerf was massive. Basically it reversed every other buff single handedly. People don't seem to get how important range is for, well, range... And for dawi being outranged by just about everyone means being outgunned. Really is a grudging that pretty much most ranged factions can actually increase the range substantially of their artillery and ranged, whereas dwarfs struggle with that. It needs to be reverted.
When I play campaigns, I play with a friend who actually takes control of the AI armies during battles.
Any faction can win against the AI in single player. Try playing the dwarfs in a multiplayer situation. They have zero flexibility and are not even dominant at what they should be able to do.
You just got a rework and Thorek. Back in line with you Stunti. Shush!
Lol this reminds of the time when Dawi fans argued that they deserve a Lp and rework more than BM do…
The audacity of Dawi fans is unmatched honestly.
No harm in reminding CA that the dawi have fallen behind in the power creep stakes - even with the reworks. Likely to get worse with the arrival of chaos dwarfs. And that they have only got one dlc in the entire series and its been some years. And while they may not get content for some time it's good to discuss their particular issues. And hopefully CA will be following and take it all in for the future. And frankly, considering what the dawi have had to deal with in this game, the dawi fans have been pretty darn patient and understanding.
And just a friendly reminder: dlc is where it's at. Getting two half assed reworks with only one dlc in 6 years is a big deal.
Give the dwarfs a proper DLC also... THIS! It needs to be in game! Make it happen CA!
i rather take the somewhat loreful rune guardinas, rune golems and a fast shard dragon over this
Why not all of those? Plus the much requested Thunderbarge, the War Balloons as a cheaper alternative to the former, the Goblin Hewer but mass-produced and not limited to Malakai only, as well as the Juggernaut? Not to mention the rest of the Slayer Cult with Dragon Slayer Heroes, Daemon Slayer Lords and Doomseekers (and no, Doomseekers aren't anti-infantry but anti-EVERYTHING).
You just got a rework and Thorek. Back in line with you Stunti. Shush!
Lol this reminds of the time when Dawi fans argued that they deserve a Lp and rework more than BM do…
The audacity of Dawi fans is unmatched honestly.
Thorek sadly doesn't count as much as the Yolked Carnosaur he has. Thorek should've been a DLC character instead of a FLC one.
Not to mention that one rework was literally adding in the Tomb King's Mortuary Cult mechanic and reskin it for the Dwarfs. Then we get another rework but it only adds some extra skills for certain characters and runes to be forged in the aforementioned reskin of a mechanic. And even then those are only limited.
It’s still a great FLC. Dawi can wait a bit and VC, Norsca and the Empire need some love before.
Dwarfs should get 2 LPs eventually tho. They simply aren’t the highest priority.
I honestly don't think Norsca even needs a rework anymore. The changes they got for IE are top notch. They do need DLC but the importance of that just fell behind the VC, Empire and Dawi.
Give the dwarfs a proper DLC also... THIS! It needs to be in game! Make it happen CA!
i rather take the somewhat loreful rune guardinas, rune golems and a fast shard dragon over this
Why not all of those? Plus the much requested Thunderbarge, the War Balloons as a cheaper alternative to the former, the Goblin Hewer but mass-produced and not limited to Malakai only, as well as the Juggernaut? Not to mention the rest of the Slayer Cult with Dragon Slayer Heroes, Daemon Slayer Lords and Doomseekers (and no, Doomseekers aren't anti-infantry but anti-EVERYTHING).
You just got a rework and Thorek. Back in line with you Stunti. Shush!
Lol this reminds of the time when Dawi fans argued that they deserve a Lp and rework more than BM do…
The audacity of Dawi fans is unmatched honestly.
Thorek sadly doesn't count as much as the Yolked Carnosaur he has. Thorek should've been a DLC character instead of a FLC one.
Not to mention that one rework was literally adding in the Tomb King's Mortuary Cult mechanic and reskin it for the Dwarfs. Then we get another rework but it only adds some extra skills for certain characters and runes to be forged in the aforementioned reskin of a mechanic. And even then those are only limited.
It’s still a great FLC. Dawi can wait a bit and VC, Norsca and the Empire need some love before.
Dwarfs should get 2 LPs eventually tho. They simply aren’t the highest priority.
I honestly don't think Norsca even needs a rework anymore. The changes they got for IE are top notch. They do need DLC but the importance of that just fell behind the VC, Empire and Dawi.
Norsca and VCount are great first Kislev/Cathay first opponent, being different from the Monogods and being threat they could often face (Though I would prefer Norsca vs Kislev, or in the future a subsequent Dlc for Norsca)
So by logic, Norsca and VCount should come sooner, with the Empire and the Dwarf each facing a Monogod (Tzeentch or Nurgle and Khorne most likely)
Y'know, if the Dawi fans hadn't been insisting that they HAD to have another update in TWW2 in additional to a Vortex map start, even though it was the very end of TWW2's lifecycle and the dwarfs weren't exactly known for their presence in those regions, then maybe, just maybe, Lizardmen would no longer be running on the campaign mechanics they had when TWW2 released, and dwarfs might be a bit higher in the update queue now.
Y'know, if the Dawi fans hadn't been insisting that they HAD to have another update in TWW2 in additional to a Vortex map start, even though it was the very end of TWW2's lifecycle and the dwarfs weren't exactly known for their presence in those regions, then maybe, just maybe, Lizardmen would no longer be running on the campaign mechanics they had when TWW2 released, and dwarfs might be a bit higher in the update queue now.
Just saying.
You do realize with all the content some factions got, lizard mechanics or lack thereof have nothing to do with dawi and everything to do with CA not spreading the luv...
The Dwarf campaigns are fun and challenging without needing a big overhaul, the only gripe I have are the 2 starting grudges most have against Skarsnik and Clan Mors, they're too impactful on forcing game play in those directions and it can be frustrating if you want to try something different.
I think the severity of those grudges should be at least halved to make them more of a suggestion and less of a must do focus. Of course eventually you're going to come to blows with those factions, but right now it feels like the only way is to really take them on very early on in the campaign which means all campaigns start out very similar.
As for the OP: Their mining economy has been gutted - Economy in no way is an issue playing as Dwarves. Economy changes were made across the board and will continue to be balanced but I don't see an issue with Dwarf economy from my handful of campaigns.
Their landmarks have been removed - All factions had landmarks removed, added and changed to some extent. More will come, I am sure there must be one in particular which has you torn up to add this in as it is quite a strange complaint.
Their unit roster has gotten no DLC since 2016 - I don't believe this is true but perhaps I'm mistaken and I can't be bothered going and checking. Their roster feels quite fleshed out in campaign with plenty of options for different stacks... more units are always good as long as they're lawful, not much is missing though. Dragon and Daemon Slayer hero/lord are what I would like to see added most of all.
Their rune rework was not upgrading enough - Crafting items and runes is a massive addition on increasing their strength and you can really boost characters and units as well as specialise them to your liking with this. The Runesmith "spells" though could possibly use a bit of a buff or reduce their cooldowns.
Their units are still using bad shields - Making units stronger will need to be balanced accordingly but I think Dwarven shields should be upgraded a tier.
Their artillery is outgunned duo to lack of TT rules - Which TT rules will mean their art isn't outgunned? Dwarf artillery is pretty awesome, I don't understand the issue.
Their vanguard units are in dire need of special rework - Dwarves should be severely lacking in vanguard. Bugmans rangers and miners make sense... Dwarves are not a sneaky vanguard deployment rushing type race
Their dreaded, corrupted cousins are about to come sooner then later - YEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Something I can definitely agree on and be excited about with you
Y'know, if the Dawi fans hadn't been insisting that they HAD to have another update in TWW2 in additional to a Vortex map start, even though it was the very end of TWW2's lifecycle and the dwarfs weren't exactly known for their presence in those regions, then maybe, just maybe, Lizardmen would no longer be running on the campaign mechanics they had when TWW2 released, and dwarfs might be a bit higher in the update queue now.
Just saying.
With 3 entire DLC under their belt? I don't think that's a good excuse for CA to skimp on the Lizardmen updates. And tbf, none of the other game 2 races got any great updates either. DLC mechanics not included. Lizardmen's just probably aged the worst.
Everybody keeps complaining that the Geomantic Web is an uninspired mechanic but I haven't seen any better ideas or attempts at a solution either. I don't really have any either but then again, I ENJOY playing the Lizardmen as they are. One of my top 6 factions to play really.
Their rune rework was not upgrading enough - Crafting items and runes is a massive addition on increasing their strength and you can really boost characters and units as well as specialise them to your liking with this. The Runesmith "spells" though could possibly use a bit of a buff or reduce their cooldowns.
Their artillery is outgunned duo to lack of TT rules - Which TT rules will mean their art isn't outgunned? Dwarf artillery is pretty awesome, I don't understand the issue.
Their vanguard units are in dire need of special rework - Dwarves should be severely lacking in vanguard. Bugmans rangers and miners make sense... Dwarves are not a sneaky vanguard deployment rushing type race
For the artillery on the TT, while it didn't have the strongest arty, it had the most stable, being able to (usually) function for the whole game without malfunction. While other races were more prone to malfunctions and explosions. Since we don't have that, it make Skaven arty for example very good compared to the TT one.
In therm of Vanguard, there are still a few things that can be done.
Slayers should get a Vanguard via Tech tree, a Hero that has Vanguard would work, either a trait for the Thane (Thane Ranger), a Slayer hero, or a Vampire Hunter of Gazul or another thing like that, or giving a buff to the Ranger (Or simply introducing other Ranger units)
And for the Rune rework, character wise it's not bad, but for the troops they ought to use the new Greenskin Scarp system, having each unit get 1/3 upgrades via oath-gold. For the Runesmith, it was a nerf
As for the OP: Their mining economy has been gutted - Economy in no way is an issue playing as Dwarves. Economy changes were made across the board and will continue to be balanced but I don't see an issue with Dwarf economy from my handful of campaigns.
The problem here is that while the dwarfs can make good money on them so can, for example, the Greenskins. Which seems dumb since the Greenskins shouldn't really have good, stable source of income. But in fact, they make the same amount of gold from their economy building at tier 3.
Their unit roster has gotten no DLC since 2016 - I don't believe this is true but perhaps I'm mistaken and I can't be bothered going and checking. Their roster feels quite fleshed out in campaign with plenty of options for different stacks... more units are always good as long as they're lawful, not much is missing though. Dragon and Daemon Slayer hero/lord are what I would like to see added most of all.
Giantslayers are the notable exception here that came with the first Dwarf update in game 2, I think that was 2018? I wasn't personally around for that, only started playing later.
But there is a lot more stuff that could be added for them. With the Slayer characters, Doomseekers and Goblin Hewers are natural new unit options. Dwarfs are also supposed to be the most technologically advanced culture in Warhammer fantasy, having an underground train network and all, but currently it feels like the Empire, Skaven and Cathay all have a leg up on them on this department. They could easily have superior unit options to Ratling Gunners, Steam Tanks and Sky Junks but for some reason the lore has never been properly reflected on their armies, TT or otherwise.
Their artillery is outgunned duo to lack of TT rules - Which TT rules will mean their art isn't outgunned? Dwarf artillery is pretty awesome, I don't understand the issue.
Not sure what this TT nonsense is about but the dawi do have a big issue when it comes to their artillery. In that all the better ones are really short range, and with the Engineer nerfs it can't be countered anymore. And apparently the rule of "Good artillery is shorter range" only applies to the dawi and not, for example, the Skaven.
Their vanguard units are in dire need of special rework - Dwarves should be severely lacking in vanguard. Bugmans rangers and miners make sense... Dwarves are not a sneaky vanguard deployment rushing type race
I can see why you'd think so if you base your thought process on the Dwarf holds but this isn't actually true. It's a big cultural thing for the dawi is that there are a lot of exiled/holdless dwarfs that roam the mountains. These are experts in ambush attacks, subterfuge and getting close to the enemy without them realizing what's going on. They're collectively known as Rangers but the units we have ingame actually represent them poorly.
Indeed, without the TT rules that address reliability the dwarf artillery has nothing that makes them special. In fact they underperform Skaven and Greenskin war machines in artillery duels. Dwarfs losing artillery duels to their 2 major rivals is a messy situation that gets me a grudgin!
More importantly for a faction that is slow and defensive with few tactics available... If the dwarfs lose 1 on 1 in artillery duels their armies are doomed on the battlefield.
Y'know, if the Dawi fans hadn't been insisting that they HAD to have another update in TWW2 in additional to a Vortex map start, even though it was the very end of TWW2's lifecycle and the dwarfs weren't exactly known for their presence in those regions, then maybe, just maybe, Lizardmen would no longer be running on the campaign mechanics they had when TWW2 released, and dwarfs might be a bit higher in the update queue now.
Just saying.
You do realize with all the content some factions got, lizard mechanics or lack thereof have nothing to do with dawi and everything to do with CA not spreading the luv...
Y'know, if the Dawi fans hadn't been insisting that they HAD to have another update in TWW2 in additional to a Vortex map start, even though it was the very end of TWW2's lifecycle and the dwarfs weren't exactly known for their presence in those regions, then maybe, just maybe, Lizardmen would no longer be running on the campaign mechanics they had when TWW2 released, and dwarfs might be a bit higher in the update queue now.
Just saying.
With 3 entire DLC under their belt? I don't think that's a good excuse for CA to skimp on the Lizardmen updates. And tbf, none of the other game 2 races got any great updates either. DLC mechanics not included. Lizardmen's just probably aged the worst.
Everybody keeps complaining that the Geomantic Web is an uninspired mechanic but I haven't seen any better ideas or attempts at a solution either. I don't really have any either but then again, I ENJOY playing the Lizardmen as they are. One of my top 6 factions to play really.
Yes. Three DLC, and in none of them did they get any updates to their campaign mechanics beyond a reshuffle of their buildings and a change to the lores available to Slann.
First DLC, Skaven got a rework. Second DLC was the Empire rework. Third DLC was the Beastmen rework, but there was spare capacity for a second rework, which went to... Dwarfs?
There's your connection, @Rheingold . Lizardmen SHOULD have had their rework with Silence and Fury, but because the Dwarf community (or, at least, a loud minority therof) was insisting that they should be squeezed into TWW2 towards the end, they did indeed get squeezed in. Dwarfs should have been slotted for one of the first cross-game DLCs for game 3, giving them a much-needed roster expansion as well as bringing their mechanics up to Game 3 standard rather than late Game 2 standard. But I doubt that's the case now - it doesn't make a lot of sense to squeeze Thorek in at the end there if there were near-term plans for a dwarf DLC. At the very least, based on what CA is saying now, that Lizardmen rework is on their radar now, so at the very least there's that which is likely to come before the dwarfs get their turn.
@Slayer_Yannir#8069 - if you haven't seen suggestions for improving the Geomantic Web, you haven't been partaking in the numerous conversations that have occurred. They mostly involve looking at some of the things the Lizardmen are described as doing in the fluff that they largely aren't capable of doing in the game (teleporting armies around shouldn't be limited to Oxayotl, the whole geomancy thing), with the Geomantic Web acting as the power source (Lizardmen are now, I think, the only race without any form of secondary currency, depending on whether you count the Norscan favour bars) and underlying infrastructure (it should be easier to perform such functions within or near a strong web than a weak one). Personally, I think they should also get faster river-crossing to account for much of their army being amphibious - Lizardmen are currently at a mobility disadvantage in Lustria due to the number of rivers and swamps and a lot of rivals in the region having some form of teleport stance, when they should be a little better at dealing with water obstacles.
It was also noted even back in 2017-2018 that the Lizardmen mechanics were among the worst by Game 2 standards. Skaven on release were worse, and there were some nasty bugs affecting both skaven and dark elves, but the skaven received a lavish rework and the bugs were fixed. High Elves and Dark Elves didn't require full mechanics reworks (at least not to meet Game 2 standards), but they still received substantial updates (High Elves with Warden and Paunch, Dark Elves were spread across several patches IIRC).
But as I noted above, there was a portion of the dwarf community screaming that They Must Have A Vortex Start Or There'd Be A Grudging, and apparently that was enough to cause a diversion (and, IMO, misappropriation) of resources. You got your turn, out of turn. I think there is need for substantial balance changes to combat units, but when it comes to anything more intensive than that... well, wait for your next turn like everyone else.
Yes. Three DLC, and in none of them did they get any updates to their campaign mechanics beyond a reshuffle of their buildings and a change to the lores available to Slann.
First DLC, Skaven got a rework. Second DLC was the Empire rework. Third DLC was the Beastmen rework, but there was spare capacity for a second rework, which went to... Dwarfs?
There's your connection, @Rheingold . Lizardmen SHOULD have had their rework with Silence and Fury, but because the Dwarf community (or, at least, a loud minority therof) was insisting that they should be squeezed into TWW2 towards the end, they did indeed get squeezed in. Dwarfs should have been slotted for one of the first cross-game DLCs for game 3, giving them a much-needed roster expansion as well as bringing their mechanics up to Game 3 standard rather than late Game 2 standard. But I doubt that's the case now - it doesn't make a lot of sense to squeeze Thorek in at the end there if there were near-term plans for a dwarf DLC. At the very least, based on what CA is saying now, that Lizardmen rework is on their radar now, so at the very least there's that which is likely to come before the dwarfs get their turn.
@Slayer_Yannir#8069 - if you haven't seen suggestions for improving the Geomantic Web, you haven't been partaking in the numerous conversations that have occurred. They mostly involve looking at some of the things the Lizardmen are described as doing in the fluff that they largely aren't capable of doing in the game (teleporting armies around shouldn't be limited to Oxayotl, the whole geomancy thing), with the Geomantic Web acting as the power source (Lizardmen are now, I think, the only race without any form of secondary currency, depending on whether you count the Norscan favour bars) and underlying infrastructure (it should be easier to perform such functions within or near a strong web than a weak one). Personally, I think they should also get faster river-crossing to account for much of their army being amphibious - Lizardmen are currently at a mobility disadvantage in Lustria due to the number of rivers and swamps and a lot of rivals in the region having some form of teleport stance, when they should be a little better at dealing with water obstacles.
It was also noted even back in 2017-2018 that the Lizardmen mechanics were among the worst by Game 2 standards. Skaven on release were worse, and there were some nasty bugs affecting both skaven and dark elves, but the skaven received a lavish rework and the bugs were fixed. High Elves and Dark Elves didn't require full mechanics reworks (at least not to meet Game 2 standards), but they still received substantial updates (High Elves with Warden and Paunch, Dark Elves were spread across several patches IIRC).
But as I noted above, there was a portion of the dwarf community screaming that They Must Have A Vortex Start Or There'd Be A Grudging, and apparently that was enough to cause a diversion (and, IMO, misappropriation) of resources. You got your turn, out of turn. I think there is need for substantial balance changes to combat units, but when it comes to anything more intensive than that... well, wait for your next turn like everyone else.
Sure but that doesn't make it the Dwarf communitys fault. It's still all on CA. Is it any wonder we keep asking CA for DLC? Most factions have already had atleast 2 DLC while the dawi are still stuck at 1 along with the VC and Norsca, having been overtaken by many factions that were released after them, like the Lizardmen. And unlike those other 2(and the Lizardmen), the dawi are really feeling it. They're a bottom-tier faction in almost every way, getting outgunned and outfought by every other faction with their fancy DLC that has powercreeped their capabilties beyond what they were supposed to, while the dawi are still stuck following design philosophies from game 1.
The Lizardmen, however, are in a good place much like the High Elves. I'm playing a Kroq-Gar campaign atm and it honestly feels great. Game 2 factions have had their fill and they should take the backseat until ALL game 1 factions are up-to-speed. Currently this is not the case. That said, I don't think the dawi need anymore reworks, just units, which is the polar opposite of the Lizardmen that don't need units, just a rework. If CA were to do the rework associated with that particular DLC/FLC on the Lizardmen while the dawi gained units in the main part of the DLC, I wouldn't complain.
I don't understand everyone saying dwarves need help, I haaave always found them a very easy race to play
Tell me a hard faction to play, i am waiting.. No faction is weak at the hands of the player. Some are OP, but none are weak.
"Need help" here means not because they are generally weak, but because they are extremely one-sided, outdated and lacking stuff. You can make a single dawi pack just out of 8ed, while many factions have been scraping the bottom of the barrel obscure material or even making up units for DLCs.
Their vanguard units are in dire need of special rework - Dwarves should be severely lacking in vanguard. Bugmans rangers and miners make sense... Dwarves are not a sneaky vanguard deployment rushing type race
Not sure you grasped what he meant. This doesnt mean that half of the faction should get vanguard, but the ones that do should not be chaff level weak like Miners. Besides vanguard, Miners could literally pop up from ground in TT. And they used this tactic plenty in the offensive war against the elves too.
To put it short about VG units - Miners: Dwarf Warriors in melee with underground advancement shtick - Rangers: Dwarf Warriors in melee with ranged weapon that can vanguard (and retain armor) - Bugmans: Longbeards in melee with ranged weapon that can vanguard, booze up (and retain armor)
These units can hardly beat chaff like Goblins in melee, except for Bugmans which still heavily downtrades. Kislev manlings came in though and suddenly they are the hybrid faction as if trolling dwarfs.
Been saying this before. And people are like Naw. Dwarfs are fine. When Chaos Dwarfs come the regular lads are gonna need a DLC. Since they've not had a unit pack since 2016. And while arguably they've been the one race that hasn't needed a new one since they've played fine all these years. having a nasty faction next door to you isn't ideal balance wise if you're still rocking units from 2016. There's definitely enough content for another pack or two.
And since the game isn't afraid to dig deep into lore and even have new factions that didn't have army books, i'd say nothing is off the table, just a quick search and i found least 5 good new unit contenders. Not including ROR versions.
I just started a Belegar campaign after the patch and its brutal - even on Normal difficulty.
Some of the "issues" i have picked up on.
Low Growth. - can be buffed with the choice of victory reward but they still grow slow.
Bad Replenishment - no heroes that buff replenishment and replenishment boosting skills on blue line could do with being on the first strand of the blue skill tree. If you are not in a green terrain province very slow to recover units health.
Not much upkeep reduction for armies and troops are expensive.
Ancilliaries seem a mess with a lot of questionable ones boosting certain mines in the province that wont help a lot unless you have a parked Lord.
Matrix dodging of the Rock Throwers has really reduced their value - they were a great help in WH2 as an early arty piece.
Specifically in the Belegar campaign i can only afford 1 and a half armies early on and right from the start of the campaign you are at war with Aranessa, Ikitt and Skrag - followed by Wurzag and the other Greenskins when they start expanding. There is also a good chance that the Wood Elves might declare war - havent played enough of the campaign to see if this happens. Seems incredibly difficult to hold onto starting provinces and Karak Hirn etc.
On the plus side - the Runes and runic magic rework i really liked and i find it useful in campaign. There was a lack of Magic weapons that you could craft but now that Hammerers get Magic attack its not as much of a deficiency now. I would have liked the Rune of Wrath and Ruin to be harmful to enemies only.
I havent played enough with the patch to say, but having weak garrisons, instant attrition in sieges, no walls - sounds like a nightmare for defending settlements against skaven and greenskins bouncing around in the underway.
Comments
- Report
2 · 1Disagree 2AgreeThe aesthetics of rune magic was improved, but the effectiveness in battle was severely hampered. Many runes went from AOE to single unit targeting. All went from local to global cooldowns so you can't use a burst of abilities. Only Thorek's army is buffed enough to use rune magic to great effect. Legend considers it to be the worst magic in the game by far. I agree with him.
The dwarfs need better buffs to their artillery. Especially in the anti-artillery roll. They need the range buff returned to the engineer and better accuracy to counter enemy artillery.
The infantry definitely need silver shields. I get very grudgy when I see silver shields on so many inferior units before my dwarfs get them.
- Report
4 · Disagree 4Agree- Report
1 · 1Disagree 1AgreePeople don't seem to get how important range is for, well, range...
And for dawi being outranged by just about everyone means being outgunned.
Really is a grudging that pretty much most ranged factions can actually increase the range substantially of their artillery and ranged, whereas dwarfs struggle with that.
It needs to be reverted.
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeWhen I play campaigns, I play with a friend who actually takes control of the AI armies during battles.
Any faction can win against the AI in single player. Try playing the dwarfs in a multiplayer situation. They have zero flexibility and are not even dominant at what they should be able to do.
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3 · Disagree 3AgreeAnd just a friendly reminder: dlc is where it's at. Getting two half assed reworks with only one dlc in 6 years is a big deal.
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeThey do need DLC but the importance of that just fell behind the VC, Empire and Dawi.
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0 · Disagree AgreeSo by logic, Norsca and VCount should come sooner, with the Empire and the Dwarf each facing a Monogod (Tzeentch or Nurgle and Khorne most likely)
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0 · Disagree AgreeJust saying.
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1 · 1Disagree 1Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI think the severity of those grudges should be at least halved to make them more of a suggestion and less of a must do focus. Of course eventually you're going to come to blows with those factions, but right now it feels like the only way is to really take them on very early on in the campaign which means all campaigns start out very similar.
As for the OP:
Their mining economy has been gutted
- Economy in no way is an issue playing as Dwarves. Economy changes were made across the board and will continue to be balanced but I don't see an issue with Dwarf economy from my handful of campaigns.
Their landmarks have been removed
- All factions had landmarks removed, added and changed to some extent. More will come, I am sure there must be one in particular which has you torn up to add this in as it is quite a strange complaint.
Their unit roster has gotten no DLC since 2016
- I don't believe this is true but perhaps I'm mistaken and I can't be bothered going and checking. Their roster feels quite fleshed out in campaign with plenty of options for different stacks... more units are always good as long as they're lawful, not much is missing though. Dragon and Daemon Slayer hero/lord are what I would like to see added most of all.
Their rune rework was not upgrading enough
- Crafting items and runes is a massive addition on increasing their strength and you can really boost characters and units as well as specialise them to your liking with this. The Runesmith "spells" though could possibly use a bit of a buff or reduce their cooldowns.
Their units are still using bad shields
- Making units stronger will need to be balanced accordingly but I think Dwarven shields should be upgraded a tier.
Their artillery is outgunned duo to lack of TT rules
- Which TT rules will mean their art isn't outgunned? Dwarf artillery is pretty awesome, I don't understand the issue.
Their vanguard units are in dire need of special rework
- Dwarves should be severely lacking in vanguard. Bugmans rangers and miners make sense... Dwarves are not a sneaky vanguard deployment rushing type race
Their dreaded, corrupted cousins are about to come sooner then later
- YEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Something I can definitely agree on and be excited about with you
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0 · Disagree AgreeEverybody keeps complaining that the Geomantic Web is an uninspired mechanic but I haven't seen any better ideas or attempts at a solution either. I don't really have any either but then again, I ENJOY playing the Lizardmen as they are. One of my top 6 factions to play really.
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0 · Disagree AgreeIn therm of Vanguard, there are still a few things that can be done.
Slayers should get a Vanguard via Tech tree, a Hero that has Vanguard would work, either a trait for the Thane (Thane Ranger), a Slayer hero, or a Vampire Hunter of Gazul or another thing like that, or giving a buff to the Ranger (Or simply introducing other Ranger units)
And for the Rune rework, character wise it's not bad, but for the troops they ought to use the new Greenskin Scarp system, having each unit get 1/3 upgrades via oath-gold. For the Runesmith, it was a nerf
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0 · Disagree AgreeBut there is a lot more stuff that could be added for them. With the Slayer characters, Doomseekers and Goblin Hewers are natural new unit options. Dwarfs are also supposed to be the most technologically advanced culture in Warhammer fantasy, having an underground train network and all, but currently it feels like the Empire, Skaven and Cathay all have a leg up on them on this department. They could easily have superior unit options to Ratling Gunners, Steam Tanks and Sky Junks but for some reason the lore has never been properly reflected on their armies, TT or otherwise. Not sure what this TT nonsense is about but the dawi do have a big issue when it comes to their artillery. In that all the better ones are really short range, and with the Engineer nerfs it can't be countered anymore. And apparently the rule of "Good artillery is shorter range" only applies to the dawi and not, for example, the Skaven. I can see why you'd think so if you base your thought process on the Dwarf holds but this isn't actually true. It's a big cultural thing for the dawi is that there are a lot of exiled/holdless dwarfs that roam the mountains. These are experts in ambush attacks, subterfuge and getting close to the enemy without them realizing what's going on. They're collectively known as Rangers but the units we have ingame actually represent them poorly.
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeMore importantly for a faction that is slow and defensive with few tactics available... If the dwarfs lose 1 on 1 in artillery duels their armies are doomed on the battlefield.
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6 · Disagree 6AgreeFirst DLC, Skaven got a rework.
Second DLC was the Empire rework.
Third DLC was the Beastmen rework, but there was spare capacity for a second rework, which went to... Dwarfs?
There's your connection, @Rheingold . Lizardmen SHOULD have had their rework with Silence and Fury, but because the Dwarf community (or, at least, a loud minority therof) was insisting that they should be squeezed into TWW2 towards the end, they did indeed get squeezed in. Dwarfs should have been slotted for one of the first cross-game DLCs for game 3, giving them a much-needed roster expansion as well as bringing their mechanics up to Game 3 standard rather than late Game 2 standard. But I doubt that's the case now - it doesn't make a lot of sense to squeeze Thorek in at the end there if there were near-term plans for a dwarf DLC. At the very least, based on what CA is saying now, that Lizardmen rework is on their radar now, so at the very least there's that which is likely to come before the dwarfs get their turn.
@Slayer_Yannir#8069 - if you haven't seen suggestions for improving the Geomantic Web, you haven't been partaking in the numerous conversations that have occurred. They mostly involve looking at some of the things the Lizardmen are described as doing in the fluff that they largely aren't capable of doing in the game (teleporting armies around shouldn't be limited to Oxayotl, the whole geomancy thing), with the Geomantic Web acting as the power source (Lizardmen are now, I think, the only race without any form of secondary currency, depending on whether you count the Norscan favour bars) and underlying infrastructure (it should be easier to perform such functions within or near a strong web than a weak one). Personally, I think they should also get faster river-crossing to account for much of their army being amphibious - Lizardmen are currently at a mobility disadvantage in Lustria due to the number of rivers and swamps and a lot of rivals in the region having some form of teleport stance, when they should be a little better at dealing with water obstacles.
It was also noted even back in 2017-2018 that the Lizardmen mechanics were among the worst by Game 2 standards. Skaven on release were worse, and there were some nasty bugs affecting both skaven and dark elves, but the skaven received a lavish rework and the bugs were fixed. High Elves and Dark Elves didn't require full mechanics reworks (at least not to meet Game 2 standards), but they still received substantial updates (High Elves with Warden and Paunch, Dark Elves were spread across several patches IIRC).
But as I noted above, there was a portion of the dwarf community screaming that They Must Have A Vortex Start Or There'd Be A Grudging, and apparently that was enough to cause a diversion (and, IMO, misappropriation) of resources. You got your turn, out of turn. I think there is need for substantial balance changes to combat units, but when it comes to anything more intensive than that... well, wait for your next turn like everyone else.
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1 · 2Disagree 1AgreeThe Lizardmen, however, are in a good place much like the High Elves. I'm playing a Kroq-Gar campaign atm and it honestly feels great. Game 2 factions have had their fill and they should take the backseat until ALL game 1 factions are up-to-speed. Currently this is not the case. That said, I don't think the dawi need anymore reworks, just units, which is the polar opposite of the Lizardmen that don't need units, just a rework. If CA were to do the rework associated with that particular DLC/FLC on the Lizardmen while the dawi gained units in the main part of the DLC, I wouldn't complain.
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3 · Disagree 3Agree"Need help" here means not because they are generally weak, but because they are extremely one-sided, outdated and lacking stuff. You can make a single dawi pack just out of 8ed, while many factions have been scraping the bottom of the barrel obscure material or even making up units for DLCs.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeTo put it short about VG units
- Miners: Dwarf Warriors in melee with underground advancement shtick
- Rangers: Dwarf Warriors in melee with ranged weapon that can vanguard (and retain armor)
- Bugmans: Longbeards in melee with ranged weapon that can vanguard, booze up (and retain armor)
These units can hardly beat chaff like Goblins in melee, except for Bugmans which still heavily downtrades. Kislev manlings came in though and suddenly they are the hybrid faction as if trolling dwarfs.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeAnd since the game isn't afraid to dig deep into lore and even have new factions that didn't have army books, i'd say nothing is off the table, just a quick search and i found least 5 good new unit contenders. Not including ROR versions.
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0 · 1Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1AgreeSome of the "issues" i have picked up on.
Low Growth. - can be buffed with the choice of victory reward but they still grow slow.
Bad Replenishment - no heroes that buff replenishment and replenishment boosting skills on blue line could do with being on the first strand of the blue skill tree. If you are not in a green terrain province very slow to recover units health.
Not much upkeep reduction for armies and troops are expensive.
Ancilliaries seem a mess with a lot of questionable ones boosting certain mines in the province that wont help a lot unless you have a parked Lord.
Matrix dodging of the Rock Throwers has really reduced their value - they were a great help in WH2 as an early arty piece.
Specifically in the Belegar campaign i can only afford 1 and a half armies early on and right from the start of the campaign you are at war with Aranessa, Ikitt and Skrag - followed by Wurzag and the other Greenskins when they start expanding. There is also a good chance that the Wood Elves might declare war - havent played enough of the campaign to see if this happens. Seems incredibly difficult to hold onto starting provinces and Karak Hirn etc.
On the plus side - the Runes and runic magic rework i really liked and i find it useful in campaign. There was a lack of Magic weapons that you could craft but now that Hammerers get Magic attack its not as much of a deficiency now. I would have liked the Rune of Wrath and Ruin to be harmful to enemies only.
I havent played enough with the patch to say, but having weak garrisons, instant attrition in sieges, no walls - sounds like a nightmare for defending settlements against skaven and greenskins bouncing around in the underway.
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0 · Disagree Agree