CA's address to the artillery dodging AI

Ork_Historian

"AI PRE-EMPTIVE DODGING: Artillery and Ranged Attacks

Another issue currently under investigation concerns the AI’s ability to dodge certain artillery and ranged attacks in Battle, making it a less viable tool than intended. We’re trying to achieve a delicate balance with this one: we don’t want the AI to make zero attempts at dodging incoming fire if it is feasible for them to do so, but certainly agree that (at the moment) the balance is way off.

There’s no fixed ETA for a fix, but please keep the feedback and clips coming as we dig down into this issue and work towards a solution!"

Thoughts? Honestly not a fan of any artillery dodging at all, feels way to "gamey". I don't want to feel like I'm fighting a player controlling an army, I want to feel like I'm fighting that race and that army. If I want to feel like I'm fighting human omnipresently controlling an army and micromanaging every company/unit's movement and manoeuvre, I will play multiplayer.

But when I play campaign, and I go to war with greenskins, I want to feel like I'm fighting greenskins. Or when I'm at war with elves or humans, I want to feel like I'm fighting elves or humans. Not legend of total war.

There is argument I feel that can be made for some units to dodge artillery, like the swordmasters of hoeth, but it just feels so gamey to see how it's implemented in total war. How about reducing the accuracy of artillery instead or something idk.

It just feels so bizarre that they've decided this was a good idea. They tried it in TWII and few liked it, and they got rid of it. Now it's back again. I have never seen anyone asking for the AI to dodge player artillery. Feels like very few people actually wanted this.

Anyways, thoughts?

mecanojavi99#6562

I mean, as CA said there needs to be a balance between Matrix dodging and brainded units.

GloatingSwine#8098

They should fix the AI's deployment rules and fix blobbing so that units aren't allowed to overlap instead so its units are inherently less vulnerable because they're not all stacked together.

Iron_Crown#5779

The solution they have in mind would be just right. Dodging, but not perfect dodging.

Surge_2#1464

Lol another W incoming.

Aic#3164

And possible have the dodging perfection scale with battle difficulty...
on VH they could well dodge close to today's lvl, while on Easy I want them to compensate for the artillery inaccuracy and walk into the shots....

sandercohen

What I'm most interested in is seeing how enemies behave when they are on atop of walls.

For land battles as far as I'm concerned the AI should always attack and the problem would be fixed.

Kalynor#2741

Ork_Historian said:

"AI PRE-EMPTIVE DODGING: Artillery and Ranged Attacks

Another issue currently under investigation concerns the AI’s ability to dodge certain artillery and ranged attacks in Battle, making it a less viable tool than intended. We’re trying to achieve a delicate balance with this one: we don’t want the AI to make zero attempts at dodging incoming fire if it is feasible for them to do so, but certainly agree that (at the moment) the balance is way off.

There’s no fixed ETA for a fix, but please keep the feedback and clips coming as we dig down into this issue and work towards a solution!"

Thoughts? Honestly not a fan of any artillery dodging at all, feels way to "gamey". I don't want to feel like I'm fighting a player controlling an army, I want to feel like I'm fighting that race and that army. If I want to feel like I'm fighting human omnipresently controlling an army and micromanaging every company/unit's movement and manoeuvre, I will play multiplayer.

But when I play campaign, and I go to war with greenskins, I want to feel like I'm fighting greenskins. Or when I'm at war with elves or humans, I want to feel like I'm fighting elves or humans. Not legend of total war.

There is argument I feel that can be made for some units to dodge artillery, like the swordmasters of hoeth, but it just feels so gamey to see how it's implemented in total war. How about reducing the accuracy of artillery instead or something idk.

It just feels so bizarre that they've decided this was a good idea. They tried it in TWII and few liked it, and they got rid of it. Now it's back again. I have never seen anyone asking for the AI to dodge player artillery. Feels like very few people actually wanted this.

Anyways, thoughts?

That's exactly what I think.

I hate the matrix dodging, ruins the immersion. As you said, I want to fight an elven army, an orc army, an undead army, etc, not a "player controlled army". There's already competitive multiplayer for that.

I am growing so "desperate" for a fix while waiting for the official address of the issue that I literally created a post hours ago asking for mod advices to mitigate it so that I could play again Vampire Coast.

In the meanwhile, I just stick to melee oriented factions.

Sheikh_Nimr#9382

Yeah, as the OP said, the best option is to reduce the accuracy of the artillery. It's actually so accurate, it is over-powered. That is, before CA made the AI avoid the projectiles like some kind of Bolshoi ballerina.

DarthEnderX-#6513

mecanojavi99#6562 said:

I mean, as CA said there needs to be a balance between Matrix dodging and brainded units.

The fix should be "After the unit gets hit by artillery, it moves, so that the enemy at least has to retarget".

Bobsyourankle#7897

I still think they should make the artillery much less accurate (but potentially more damaging). At the moment the artillery lands precisely where you aim it - that isn't realistic or like the TT.

If the AI doesn't know where it is going to land, there is no point trying to dodge. Put the inconsistency back in the game and it will solve these other silly problems. A long advancing infantry line should still take plenty of damage.but an individual unit, not so much.

ConstantineZAyn#4211

Kalynor#2741 said:

Ork_Historian said:

"AI PRE-EMPTIVE DODGING: Artillery and Ranged Attacks

Another issue currently under investigation concerns the AI’s ability to dodge certain artillery and ranged attacks in Battle, making it a less viable tool than intended. We’re trying to achieve a delicate balance with this one: we don’t want the AI to make zero attempts at dodging incoming fire if it is feasible for them to do so, but certainly agree that (at the moment) the balance is way off.

There’s no fixed ETA for a fix, but please keep the feedback and clips coming as we dig down into this issue and work towards a solution!"

Thoughts? Honestly not a fan of any artillery dodging at all, feels way to "gamey". I don't want to feel like I'm fighting a player controlling an army, I want to feel like I'm fighting that race and that army. If I want to feel like I'm fighting human omnipresently controlling an army and micromanaging every company/unit's movement and manoeuvre, I will play multiplayer.

But when I play campaign, and I go to war with greenskins, I want to feel like I'm fighting greenskins. Or when I'm at war with elves or humans, I want to feel like I'm fighting elves or humans. Not legend of total war.

There is argument I feel that can be made for some units to dodge artillery, like the swordmasters of hoeth, but it just feels so gamey to see how it's implemented in total war. How about reducing the accuracy of artillery instead or something idk.

It just feels so bizarre that they've decided this was a good idea. They tried it in TWII and few liked it, and they got rid of it. Now it's back again. I have never seen anyone asking for the AI to dodge player artillery. Feels like very few people actually wanted this.

Anyways, thoughts?

That's exactly what I think.

I hate the matrix dodging, ruins the immersion. As you said, I want to fight an elven army, an orc army, an undead army, etc, not a "player controlled army". There's already competitive multiplayer for that.

I am growing so "desperate" for a fix while waiting for the official address of the issue that I literally created a post hours ago asking for mod advices to mitigate it so that I could play again Vampire Coast.

In the meanwhile, I just stick to melee oriented factions.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2862419908&searchtext=different+projectiles

Try that one. It speeds up projectile speeds, making it harder (if not impossible) to dodge artillery. Plus, bullets actually look and function like bullets.

RomeoReject#1666

I'm still not sure why they're trying to tune "dodge the artillery". Have them sprint their troops when in range to avoid as much time as possible, like a normal player would.

Schussel#7671

The "normal" player can only do this when he is turnig his whole attention towards dodging the artillery and ignoring therefor whats happening at another area of the battlefield or pausing the game every few seconds.
If you just play the game you won't have time to micromanage every unit.

Kalynor#2741

ConstantineZAyn#4211 said:

Kalynor#2741 said:

Ork_Historian said:

"AI PRE-EMPTIVE DODGING: Artillery and Ranged Attacks

Another issue currently under investigation concerns the AI’s ability to dodge certain artillery and ranged attacks in Battle, making it a less viable tool than intended. We’re trying to achieve a delicate balance with this one: we don’t want the AI to make zero attempts at dodging incoming fire if it is feasible for them to do so, but certainly agree that (at the moment) the balance is way off.

There’s no fixed ETA for a fix, but please keep the feedback and clips coming as we dig down into this issue and work towards a solution!"

Thoughts? Honestly not a fan of any artillery dodging at all, feels way to "gamey". I don't want to feel like I'm fighting a player controlling an army, I want to feel like I'm fighting that race and that army. If I want to feel like I'm fighting human omnipresently controlling an army and micromanaging every company/unit's movement and manoeuvre, I will play multiplayer.

But when I play campaign, and I go to war with greenskins, I want to feel like I'm fighting greenskins. Or when I'm at war with elves or humans, I want to feel like I'm fighting elves or humans. Not legend of total war.

There is argument I feel that can be made for some units to dodge artillery, like the swordmasters of hoeth, but it just feels so gamey to see how it's implemented in total war. How about reducing the accuracy of artillery instead or something idk.

It just feels so bizarre that they've decided this was a good idea. They tried it in TWII and few liked it, and they got rid of it. Now it's back again. I have never seen anyone asking for the AI to dodge player artillery. Feels like very few people actually wanted this.

Anyways, thoughts?

That's exactly what I think.

I hate the matrix dodging, ruins the immersion. As you said, I want to fight an elven army, an orc army, an undead army, etc, not a "player controlled army". There's already competitive multiplayer for that.

I am growing so "desperate" for a fix while waiting for the official address of the issue that I literally created a post hours ago asking for mod advices to mitigate it so that I could play again Vampire Coast.

In the meanwhile, I just stick to melee oriented factions.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2862419908&searchtext=different+projectiles

Try that one. It speeds up projectile speeds, making it harder (if not impossible) to dodge artillery. Plus, bullets actually look and function like bullets.

Thank you very much for the suggestion.

I just tried the mod, but unfortunately the dodging behavior is still there.

Queen Bess missed 15 shots on 16 total, only one landed (and did not harm the enemy unit that much).