Dogs of War DLC suggestion (LLs, mechanics, map rework, FLC)

SkyMagicx#2091

Dogs of War DLC

· Tilea as base of DLC as dogs of war as they mainly hail from there and are still mainly used in Tilea.

· Map changes:

Tilea and Estalia expanded/enlarged and Border Princes more regions
Tilea
- Province of Northern Tilea: Miragliano (capital) and Trantio
- Province of Central Tilea: Remas (capital), Pavona and Verezzo
- Principality of Luccini: Luccini (capital) and Monte Castello
- Principality of Tobaro: Tobaro (capital) and new settlement down south (potentially Aquilas)
Estalia
- Kingdom of Astarios: Magritta (capital) and Nerja
- Iranna Mountains: Montenas (capital) and Muros
- Kingdom of Aragona : Bilbali (capital) and Viseaya
Border Princes
- Turn Western Border princes into 2 regions, 1 around Myrmidens and the thin peninsula with Thesos as minor settlement (call it something like black peninsula), and one closer to the mountains. Less ideas for exact rework of the region. Region is large and could be expanded for future DLC lords of other human races that will start there. (Bohemond beastlayer for Bretonnia, Kislev lord or Empire lords, see https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/).

· Special features of Dogs of War/Tilea

- Mercenary contracts, all DoW factions can be offered a mercenary contract from other factions. This opens up a screen where you select which contracts you want to engage with and which general (currently leading an army) you want to send. Selecting and confirming a general for a contract will teleport the army (either at that capital or next to the front) of that faction. Whilst contracted your army acts like part of that faction (enjoys their replenishment and can only capture cities for that faction), you will not suffer any diplomatic penalty with the faction you are fighting whilst contracted (it’s just good business). Contracts last for 10 turns, when time elapses your army is teleported back to your capital. Much like 3 kingdoms bandits, the more you do the more reward you will get at the end of your contract (relations and money), your army has reduced upkeep and increased movement range+ sacking /looting bonuses.
- Tilean city-states; Tilean cities are bigger, richer and more independent then the other races of man. Cities in Tilea region (only those mentioned above) have 2 more slots than other settlements to represent this character. Tilean minor settlements can grow to tier 4. Other factions and races cannot take advantage of this.
- Dogs of war, all factions in the DLC have access to mercenary recruitment. I see it as a special mercenary pool with a cap per mercenary unit, which can be increased by either lord skills or special buildings (like mercenary hub) in your settlements. You also have a %chance of finding certain mercenaries by being in their homelands with your lord (like norscans in Norsca or Amazons in the new world. Mercenaries can hail from all races (limited roster from each, no pure chaos or demons), are more expensive to recruit and upkeep, but are recruited instantaneously and are usually better than units from the same tier from your base roster
-Natural traders; all DoW factions have increased income for trade and ports and have an easier time making trade deals.

· 4 Starting LL’s and 2 FLC lords

- (1) Borgio the Besieger, starts in Miragliano, melee focused lord, buffing campaign aspect of army and mercenaries
- (2) Lucrezzia Belladona, starts in Pavona, powefull poison magic caster
- (3) Marco Colombo, starts in New World colonies, ranged lord, income and diplomacy focus
- (4) Lorenzo Lupo, starts somewhere in Border Princes close to Myrmidens (maybe thesos), seeking to claim the city, melee focus, buffing battles
- (5) Edvard van der Kraal, starts in Marienburg, Mercenary campaign, Hybrid, fleet building, focuses on mercenaries. FLC
- (6) Lupio Sunscryer, Starts in Magritta, melee focused lord, focuses on improving the realm. FLC for people with DLC and all 3 games

· Special campaign mechanics and features

1. Borgio the Besieger,
- Student of War, has access to a mechanic similar to Prince Cheng in 3 kingdoms, where he can select 3 artefacts (either from battles or scrolls of Leonardo) to have certain buffs to his army.
- Famous mercenary commander and founder of DoW regiments, Borgio has more chance of gaining new mercenaries in his pool than any other lord and cheaper upkeep and higher replenishment for DoW.
- Expert siege attacker, increased stats for his troops in sieges and significantly reduced morale for enemies and siege hold out for him (maximum hold-out against him should be 4 for max settlement)
2. Lucrezzia Belladona
- Many husbands and more to come... Has a special selection screen of new potential husbands from different mortal races. Choosing a husband from a certain race gives you diplomatic bonus to that race and special buffs (Bret husband gives charge bonus, mercenary captain, DoW buffs, Tilean gives trade buff, etc...)
- Has access to special assassin heroes and mechanics. Can be usde these assassins to kill her husbands (against a fee), when she needs another one. Assassins can also wound or kill lords on the campaign (like hands of the shadow king but without the 100% success chance).
-Mistress of the poison; has access to unique female Poison wizards as both lord and hero.
- Most beautiful woman of the old world. +15 relationship with all factions
3. Marco Colombo
- Explorer; increased Line of sight and movement range for all armies and has LoS along all settlements on same see regions
- Trader; can send out Trade missions much like Cathay, but focused on sea encounters and from new world to old world.
- Friend of Lizardmen; Thanks to his friendship with the Lizardmen, Marco Colombo has become rich and longlived. Increased relations with Lizardmen, has unique access to Saurus mercenaries and increased cap and chance on Amazons.
4. Lorenzo Lupo
- Descendent of Lucan and Luccina, has to gain support from both sides of the founders of the city, and keep that in balance, mix of grudge meter and harmony of Cathay.
Each tier of favour from each offers benefits but big penalties for being too imbalanced (if there is a full tier of difference between worship/support of the two you get penalties). Campaign victory dependent on fulling up meter on both sides.
- Worship of old; Lorenzo seeks out artefacts of Lucan and Luccina as well as the old Reman empire. Finding these will give buffs and can boost up the support of either side (or both) depending on the item (similar to Thorek Ironbrow searching for the pieces in settlements).
- Reman Empire of Old , Lorenzo Lupo gains unique access to unique Reman legionnaires, in 3 tiers like hastati, reman legionnaire and reman heavy legionnaire.
5. Edvard van der Kraal
- Captain of Mannan’s Blades, access to shipbuilding and increased sacking income, cheaper mercenary recruitment and increased bonuses of mercenary contracts
- Great city of Marienburg, decrease relations with Empire, Marienburg becomes major race capital (10 slots), uses Empire state troops as base roster in unison with DoW mechanic and some unique Marienburg units (like the landship). Dutch names
-Mercantile traditions: Gives access to trade port mechanic. When capturing settlement, has the option to set up trade colony, kinda like undercity, pirate cove, cult, CK2 republic mechanic...) submenu focused on trade/income and defence of the settlement. Can be set-up passively whilst in special encamp stance with lord for a fixed sum of money.
- Gets priest of Mannan hero instead of priestess of myrmidia.
6. Lupio Sunscryer
- The Emperor of Estalia, seeks to unify all of Estalia. Gives temporary buffs to faction for each Estalian settlement he takes. Each unified region of Estalia giving him a permanent buff and special unit (like the empire a bit). Regions of Estalian Empire also include Tobaro, Skavenblight and Carcassone for Lupio.
Shares most of the roster with Tilea, more Spanish themed reskin and names. Has access to a few unique Estalian units (like conquistadors, etc...)
- Devoted to Myrmidia, higher recruit rank for battle priest of Myrmidia, can have Priests of Myrmidia lords too. Stronger myrmidian knights. Unique myrmidian foot knights for Lupio.

P.S: for the ''lore'' on Suncryer see https://sunscryer.fandom.com/wiki/Lupio_Sunscryer

· Lord and Heroes

Lord types
- Merchant Prince, focuses on buffing ‘’state’’ troops and campaign benefits (trade, public order, income and growth)
- Mercenary Prince focuses on buffing DoW units, lowering their upkeep and focus on battle buffs (also state troops but mainly DoW units)
-Hedge Wizard Lord, buffs units to lesser extent then both other options but has access to magic.

Hero types
- Paymaster, buffs morale and efficiency of DoW units around him, melee support unit, has increase replenishment
- Mercenary veteran, strong melee hero, combat focused, has train army
- Hedge wizard, magic user, has the artefact loot chance
- Battle Priestess of Myrmidia, buffs morale and unit efficiency, buffing prayers. Has access to magic attacks, replenishment and train army.
- Assassins (locked to Lucrezzia,), possibly could be unlocked by landmark in Pavona or by confederating her, focus on damaging armies with poison and killing characters and lord on the campaign map.

· Armies and troops

‘’State troops’’
- City Militia, base unit that can be recruited from tier one settlement. Armed with shield and spear, not very strong but cheap
- Pikemen, strong line holder, weak on flank but excellent front on. Tier 1 barrack unit
- Light Crossbow men. Crossbow . Good range and AP, . Tier 1
- Pavise Crossbow men. Crossbow men with shields on their back that they can use whilst reloading. Good range and AP, good missile block chance. Tier 2
- Duelists. Two handed sword fighters with light armor, great at flanking or holding the flank. Tier 2
- Light cannons. Horse drawn and quick these cannons can reposition quickly around battlefield. Not amazing damage but still cannon. Tier 3
- Veteran Pikemen, stronger overall version of the base Pikemen. Tier 3
- Knights of Myrmidia, special religious unit, quite strong for tier 3 but needs specific religious building. Tier 3
- Heavy Pavise Crossbow men. Elite crossbow men with shield. Special option to deploy shields as wall and use for cover. Incredible missile block chance and increase rate of fire but immobile. Tier 4
- Republican Guard, Elite and heavily armoured pikemen unit. Encourage ability. Tier 4
- Tilean Marines, very similar to Venetian heavy infantry in M2TW, armoured and AP, good on the flanks. Tier 4
- Princely knights. Elite armoured cavalry, best money can buy in equipment and soldiers (like broken lances in M2TW). Tier 5
- Leonardo’s battle tank. Super heavily armoured tank, can shoot from all direction (because its round). tier 5 (see Cataph's southern realm mod)

Dogs of War units and RoR
- Basically all of the famous RoR we see in all the lore videos, but option to have more than 1, but not more than 3.
- Huge variety of DoW units, slim selection of all races’ (except chaos/demons) roster. Some races more easy to recruit then others (like ogres and human factions).

Some units I would like to see as basic Dow units: Black arc corsairs, lothern sea guard, dwarf thunderers, orc boyz, empire hellstorm rocket battery, amazon warriors, gryphon legion, bretonnian knights, norscan reavers, ogres (almost all varient) and a few possible teases at further lore such as Ronin (Samurai from Nippon) and Halfling cooks. Additionally, could see a mercenary version of state troops as well in case you need an emergency army recruited quickly

· Some final words and justifications

- In lore the term Dog’s of War originally comes from Tilea, so DLC makes sense, to me, to focus on them.

- I consider this DLC to be a stepping stone to the wider DoW roster and LLs. In my opinion, later LLs could be added that would bring in new, specific faction units and mechanics for races that may not make it in a standalone fashion. Lietpold and Gashnak would be prime examples of expansion. One could also consider one or two Araby LLs (sorry Araby fans but a fully fledged 4 LL race pack seems extremely unlikely)

- Tilean cities in lore are described as rich, big and more independant and self-sufficient than others, tried reflecting the city state nature by making all the cities bigger.

- Tilea and Southern realms are very barren and the game definitely needs some new playable order factions to help out, especially if chaos dwarfs will come too.

- Marienburg also deserves some representation and adds an order faction to the Empire region (lord knows they need it). Furthermore, Marienburg is also represented on the RoC map, hence making more sense for it to be the main FLC rather than Lupio.

-Still there needs to be some Estalian representation and nothing better to reward loyal players of game 1 who have had the southern realms always present and never playable with a bonus FLC to fill up the south.

-Mercenary contract mechanic should be a fun mechanic which offers a lot of diversity in terms of fighting factions and battle maps across the Immortal empires. Through this mechanic you wouldn’t even need to expand too much in order to have action across the world. The fact that it would TP you close to the combat would also negate you loosing precious contract time have to sail or walk over (sometimes vast) amounts of the map. I believe also being able to choose whether an LL or generic lord goes on contract is a good choice, as you may want to keep your strongest army on hand for a neighbouring war but you might want to make some extra money on the side while levelling up a weaker lord/army.

-All the Tilean lords can easily be changed places on the RoC map (can easily say they have been contracted, wanted to set up trade, found a new husband..., or some artifacts were taken up north).

-The lords mechanics are inspired by their personality in lore, what they have done, what they want to do and keeping in mind a fun but balanced mechanic (ofc some inspiration from other races. Also tried to make sure that each faction/lord has a different playstyle).

-In IE Lupo has to start away from Luccini or else land would be too crowded initially, especially with Sartosa starting right next to it and usually capturing it early on. Lupo’s mechanic and motivation is perfect to start a bit further away and also allow to have border princes region to have a playable faction and LL in it.

-I believe in the future we might be able to see a Border Prince LL that could be part of the DoW race, but in my opinion, none of them were important enough to make the cut for the DLC.

-Please note that this is only a proposition for a DoW DLC, you may think there are other LLs worthy of making the list. If so, I would kindly ask you to, constructively, propose them in the comments (mechanics, start pos, special units, etc...)

-If any of these ideas (mainly the lord and race mechanics), have inspired you (content creators or even CA) you are free to present them or implement them but I would kindly ask for a shoutout. Knowing that my ideas have found some success would be greatly appreciated.

Senten#7680

Good post, I just saw it and I hope they put them in soon, the truth is that I want this to come out more than the chaos dwarfs.

Wyvax#7456

I don't agree with everything in the post, but this is a really well thought out run down of what they should get. All for getting the Southern realms expanded, with a bit more landmass to Estalia and Tilea respectively. I honestly think that a city state system would work wonders for the area, similar to the single settlement capital cities of Kislev, at least for Tilea anyway. The BP could probably stay more like the traditional provinces just loaded with feuding minor factions and a couple of majors.

Also: Lietpold the Black starting in Akendorf please.

DarthEnderX-#6513

Southern Realms/Dogs of War should take 3 separate forms in TWW:

1. A separate race representing mercenary armies from all over the world that uses a Memnon-like recruitment system to recruit units from all over the world. Including: Tilea, Border Princes, Estalia, Halflings, Amazons. As well as(at least until they get their own races): Araby, Hobgoblins, Ind, Khuresh and Nippon.

2. Mercenary camps similar to the Ogre mercs we have now, only with all types of DoW units.

3. Reskinned DoW units can be used for NPC Minor Factions. Like Halflings in the Moot, and Amazons in Lustria. This can even be used to create more loreful placeholders for races that haven't been added yet. For example: They can reskin Desert Dogs to make Arabyan Desert Raiders, then have Araby populated by a Minor Faction of these Raiders, instead of other races like Bretonnia.

Launch Roster

Tilea:
Pikemen (pike)
Crossbowmen (crossbow),(crossbow+pavise)
Duelists (sword+dagger)
Bodyguards (halberd)
Knights (lance+shield)
Gliders (crossbow)

Sartosa:
Swashbucklers (sword+pistol)
Cannons

Estalia:
Diestros (sword+buckler)
Arquebusiers (handgun)
Caballeros (lance+sword)

Araby:
Spearmen (spear+shield)
Desert Riders (sword+shield)
Camel Riders (jezzail)
Flying Carpets (bow)
War Elephants

Halflings:
Poachers (bow)
Scouts (dagger+throwing knives)
Hot Pots

SkyMagicx#2091

Wyvax#7456 said:

I don't agree with everything in the post, but this is a really well thought out run down of what they should get. All for getting the Southern realms expanded, with a bit more landmass to Estalia and Tilea respectively. I honestly think that a city state system would work wonders for the area, similar to the single settlement capital cities of Kislev, at least for Tilea anyway. The BP could probably stay more like the traditional provinces just loaded with feuding minor factions and a couple of majors.

Also: Lietpold the Black starting in Akendorf please.

I could defintily see Lietpold added into the race ! But maybe as a later versus DLC against another LL.

DarthEnderX-#6513

Wyvax#7456 said:

Lietpold the Black starting in Akendorf please.

And a Grudgebringers minor faction in EBP!

Bonutz#3949

Love it!

#568367

I just agree on DoW as a race in general.


Granted I disagree with most of your decisions. DoW should follow most of the TT, so generic Lord and Hero should be Mercenary General and Mercenary Captains. Hireling Wizards instead of Hedge. etc.

Valkaar#2507

I feel like your vision heavily over-emphasizes the Southern Realms + Reskins of existing Races.

Don't get me wrong, the Southern Realms should be a main aspect. I'm not saying it should be removed. But for a $20 Campaign Pack, I definitely want some flashier and more imaginative things. The Dogs of War might be our only chance to see representation of many minor Races.

As a result, I'd prefer a split of maybe HALF (at most) Southern Realms units. The other HALF needs to be LL's, Heroes, and Units from farway lands. Foreign Leaders and Captains alongside their Elephants, Samurai, Tigermen, Druids, etc. etc. You mention some of these things in passing as an afterthought in your OP, but I would prefer them to be a much more meaningful portion of the Race as a whole compared to what you outline.

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And as an unrelated side note, your request for people here, on YouTube, and at CA to give reverence to your OP in a form of loose or vague intellectual copyright really rubbed me the wrong way.

Not only did it sound like it came from a misguided sense of inflated self importance.....but you're also suggesting (mostly) the most common, canon, safe, vanilla, and frequently cited versions of these characters and units!!!

So like, how can you possibly expect to be 'credited' or have CA personally pick your brain when you're suggesting stuff like 'Borgio the Besieger' and 'Mercenary Contracts'???

Every other speculation video already out there is already suggesting that kind of stuff. MilkandCookies, Sotek, ItalianSpartacus, etc. etc. beat you to the punch on 90%+ of your suggestions by a time-frame of 5+ years ago. You're not giving them any credit in your OP but you want them to credit you if they mention this same stuff again later?

If you invented a whole new character from scratch, that'd be one thing. I could understand wanting to be credited or referenced if somebody else decides to use your soecific character.

But if you're just going to suggest a fairly conservative literal Armybook translation, with generic and obvious traits like 'Mercenary Mechanics' that everyone is basically assuming they're going to get in some capacity, then I think it's a little silly to request credit for the idea.

Don't get me wrong, you're totally allowed to prefer and advocate a more 'standard' vision of DoW over a more exotic version. But you don't get to 'claim' the standard version as if you alone invented it.

SkyMagicx#2091

Valkaar#2507 said:

I feel like your vision heavily over-emphasizes the Southern Realms + Reskins of existing Races.

Don't get me wrong, the Southern Realms should be a main aspect. I'm not saying it should be removed. But for a $20 Campaign Pack, I definitely want some flashier and more imaginative things. The Dogs of War might be our only chance to see representation of many minor Races.

As a result, I'd prefer a split of maybe HALF (at most) Southern Realms units. The other HALF needs to be LL's, Heroes, and Units from farway lands. Foreign Leaders and Captains alongside their Elephants, Samurai, Tigermen, Druids, etc. etc. You mention some of these things in passing as an afterthought in your OP, but I would prefer them to be a much more meaningful portion of the Race as a whole compared to what you outline.

.
.
.

And as an unrelated side note, your request for people here, on YouTube, and at CA to give reverence to your OP in a form of loose or vague intellectual copyright really rubbed me the wrong way.

Not only did it sound like it came from a misguided sense of inflated self importance.....but you're also suggesting (mostly) the most common, canon, safe, vanilla, and frequently cited versions of these characters and units!!!

So like, how can you possibly expect to be 'credited' or have CA personally pick your brain when you're suggesting stuff like 'Borgio the Besieger' and 'Mercenary Contracts'???

Every other speculation video already out there is already suggesting that kind of stuff. MilkandCookies, Sotek, ItalianSpartacus, etc. etc. beat you to the punch on 90%+ of your suggestions by a time-frame of 5+ years ago. You're not giving them any credit in your OP but you want them to credit you if they mention this same stuff again later?

If you invented a whole new character from scratch, that'd be one thing. I could understand wanting to be credited or referenced if somebody else decides to use your soecific character.

But if you're just going to suggest a fairly conservative literal Armybook translation, with generic and obvious traits like 'Mercenary Mechanics' that everyone is basically assuming they're going to get in some capacity, then I think it's a little silly to request credit for the idea.

Don't get me wrong, you're totally allowed to prefer and advocate a more 'standard' vision of DoW over a more exotic version. But you don't get to 'claim' the standard version as if you alone invented it.

I get your 1rst point. I may have my own bias towards the Southern Realm and Tilea. Whilst i would also like more far away LLs and races, i imagined them as add-ons to this DLC. But point taken.

For your second point, im genuinly sorry it came over as arrogant. I did not mean for it to come over like that. I probably should have spent more time on the last part to avoid this. It is true that a lot of my outline is based on the lore (Great book of grudges and Inept general were my sources), and i dont claim any owneership of that. However, to my knowledge (and i stress this part), all the youtubers i have seen, have not really presented mechanics for all the LLs. I have spent real time on my own figuring out lorefull mechanics for them (inspired from other games and races) and it would be the only real thing i would "claim" as my ideas. Finally, the main reason i would ask a shoutout for them is simply i would enjoy knowing that people enjoyed my ideas and think they are good, but i would also be happy if they are added to some extent even without the shoutout.

Valkaar#2507

SkyMagicx#2091 said:

Valkaar#2507 said:

I feel like your vision heavily over-emphasizes the Southern Realms + Reskins of existing Races.

Don't get me wrong, the Southern Realms should be a main aspect. I'm not saying it should be removed. But for a $20 Campaign Pack, I definitely want some flashier and more imaginative things. The Dogs of War might be our only chance to see representation of many minor Races.

As a result, I'd prefer a split of maybe HALF (at most) Southern Realms units. The other HALF needs to be LL's, Heroes, and Units from farway lands. Foreign Leaders and Captains alongside their Elephants, Samurai, Tigermen, Druids, etc. etc. You mention some of these things in passing as an afterthought in your OP, but I would prefer them to be a much more meaningful portion of the Race as a whole compared to what you outline.

.
.
.

And as an unrelated side note, your request for people here, on YouTube, and at CA to give reverence to your OP in a form of loose or vague intellectual copyright really rubbed me the wrong way.

Not only did it sound like it came from a misguided sense of inflated self importance.....but you're also suggesting (mostly) the most common, canon, safe, vanilla, and frequently cited versions of these characters and units!!!

So like, how can you possibly expect to be 'credited' or have CA personally pick your brain when you're suggesting stuff like 'Borgio the Besieger' and 'Mercenary Contracts'???

Every other speculation video already out there is already suggesting that kind of stuff. MilkandCookies, Sotek, ItalianSpartacus, etc. etc. beat you to the punch on 90%+ of your suggestions by a time-frame of 5+ years ago. You're not giving them any credit in your OP but you want them to credit you if they mention this same stuff again later?

If you invented a whole new character from scratch, that'd be one thing. I could understand wanting to be credited or referenced if somebody else decides to use your soecific character.

But if you're just going to suggest a fairly conservative literal Armybook translation, with generic and obvious traits like 'Mercenary Mechanics' that everyone is basically assuming they're going to get in some capacity, then I think it's a little silly to request credit for the idea.

Don't get me wrong, you're totally allowed to prefer and advocate a more 'standard' vision of DoW over a more exotic version. But you don't get to 'claim' the standard version as if you alone invented it.

I get your 1rst point. I may have my own bias towards the Southern Realm and Tilea. Whilst i would also like more far away LLs and races, i imagined them as add-ons to this DLC. But point taken.

For your second point, im genuinly sorry it came over as arrogant. I did not mean for it to come over like that. I probably should have spent more time on the last part to avoid this. It is true that a lot of my outline is based on the lore (Great book of grudges and Inept general were my sources), and i dont claim any owneership of that. However, to my knowledge (and i stress this part), all the youtubers i have seen, have not really presented mechanics for all the LLs. I have spent real time on my own figuring out lorefull mechanics for them (inspired from other games and races) and it would be the only real thing i would "claim" as my ideas. Finally, the main reason i would ask a shoutout for them is simply i would enjoy knowing that people enjoyed my ideas and think they are good, but i would also be happy if they are added to some extent even without the shoutout.

Well, if all if that is the case, then I apologize if my rant came across too aggressively. I perhaps didn't fully understand what portions you were seeking to credit or that your perspective towards receiving credit was meant in a more 'take it or leave it' spirit.

I would simply suggest maybe adding a bit more clarifying wording to the OP to add that nuance, as it perhaps can be construed that you're trying claim the whole bundle of LL's, Mercenaries, and State Troops ideas with the way it's currently framed.

You don't have to change that wording of course. That's just my suggestion. But whether you amend the OP or not, I mean no hard feelings towards you, and I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part of your original intentions.

Tennisgolfboll#5877

No Morgan Bernhardt. 1/10.

CountSpookula#8662

SkyMagicx#2091 said:

Dogs of War DLC

· Tilea as base of DLC as dogs of war as they mainly hail from there and are still mainly used in Tilea.

· Map changes:

Tilea and Estalia expanded/enlarged and Border Princes more regions
Tilea
- Province of Northern Tilea: Miragliano (capital) and Trantio
- Province of Central Tilea: Remas (capital), Pavona and Verezzo
- Principality of Luccini: Luccini (capital) and Monte Castello
- Principality of Tobaro: Tobaro (capital) and new settlement down south
Estalia
- Kingdom of Astarios: Magritta (capital) and Nerja
- Iranna Mountains: Montenas (capital) and Muros
- Kingdom of Aragona : Bilbali (capital) and Viseaya
Border Princes
- Turn Western Border princes into 2 regions, 1 around Myrmidens and the thin peninsula with Thesos as minor settlement (call it something like black peninsula), and one closer to the mountains. Less ideas for exact rework of the region. Region is large and could be expanded for future DLC lords of other human races that will start there. (Bohemond beastlayer for Bretonnia, Kislev lord or Empire lords, see https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/).

· Special features of Dogs of War/Tilea

- Mercenary contracts, all DoW factions can be offered a mercenary contract from other factions. This opens up a screen where you select which contracts you want to engage with and which general (currently leading an army) you want to send. Selecting and confirming a general for a contract will teleport the army (either at that capital or next to the front) of that faction. Whilst contracted your army acts like part of that faction (enjoys their replenishment and can only capture cities for that faction), you will not suffer any diplomatic penalty with the faction you are fighting whilst contracted (it’s just good business). Contracts last for 10 turns, when time elapses your army is teleported back to your capital. Much like 3 kingdoms bandits, the more you do the more reward you will get at the end of your contract (relations and money), your army has reduced upkeep and increased movement range+ sacking /looting bonuses.
- Tilean city-states; Tilean cities are bigger, richer and more independent then the other races of man. Cities in Tilea region (only those mentioned above) have 2 more slots than other settlements to represent this character. Tilean minor settlements can grow to tier 4. Other factions and races cannot take advantage of this.
- Dogs of war, all factions in the DLC have access to mercenary recruitment. I see it as a special mercenary pool with a cap per mercenary unit, which can be increased by either lord skills or special buildings (like mercenary hub) in your settlements. You also have a %chance of finding certain mercenaries by being in their homelands with your lord (like norscans in Norsca or Amazons in the new world. Mercenaries can hail from all races (limited roster from each, no pure chaos or demons), are more expensive to recruit and upkeep, but are recruited instantaneously and are usually better than units from the same tier from your base roster
-Natural traders; all DoW factions have increased income for trade and ports and have an easier time making trade deals.

· 4 Starting LL’s and 2 FLC lords

- (1) Borgio the Besieger, starts in Miragliano, melee focused lord, buffing campaign aspect of army and mercenaries
- (2) Lucrezzia Belladona, starts in Pavona, powefull poison magic caster
- (3) Marco Colombo, starts in New World colonies, ranged lord, income and diplomacy focus
- (4) Lorenzo Lupo, starts somewhere in Border Princes close to Myrmidens (maybe thesos), seeking to claim the city, melee focus, buffing battles
- (5) Edvard van der Kraal, starts in Marienburg, Mercenary campaign, Hybrid, fleet building, focuses on mercenaries. FLC
- (6) Lupio Sunscryer, Starts in Magritta, melee focused lord, focuses on improving the realm. FLC for people with DLC and all 3 games

· Special campaign mechanics and features

1. Borgio the Besieger,
- Student of War, has access to a mechanic similar to Prince Cheng in 3 kingdoms, where he can select 3 artefacts (either from battles or scrolls of Leonardo) to have certain buffs to his army.
- Famous mercenary commander and founder of DoW regiments, Borgio has more chance of gaining new mercenaries in his pool than any other lord and cheaper upkeep and higher replenishment for DoW.
- Expert siege attacker, increased stats for his troops in sieges and significantly reduced morale for enemies and siege hold out for him (maximum hold-out against him should be 4 for max settlement)
2. Lucrezzia Belladona
- Many husbands and more to come... Has a special selection screen of new potential husbands from different mortal races. Choosing a husband from a certain race gives you diplomatic bonus to that race and special buffs (Bret husband gives charge bonus, mercenary captain, DoW buffs, Tilean gives trade buff, etc...)
- Has access to special assassin heroes and mechanics. Can be usde these assassins to kill her husbands (against a fee), when she needs another one. Assassins can also wound or kill lords on the campaign (like hands of the shadow king but without the 100% success chance).
-Mistress of the poison; has access to unique female Poison wizards as both lord and hero.
- Most beautiful woman of the old world. +15 relationship with all factions
3. Marco Colombo
- Explorer; increased Line of sight and movement range for all armies and has LoS along all settlements on same see regions
- Trader; can send out Trade missions much like Cathay, but focused on sea encounters and from new world to old world.
- Friend of Lizardmen; Thanks to his friendship with the Lizardmen, Marco Colombo has become rich and longlived. Increased relations with Lizardmen, has unique access to Saurus mercenaries and increased cap and chance on Amazons.
4. Lorenzo Lupo
- Descendent of Lucan and Luccina, has to gain support from both sides of the founders of the city, and keep that in balance, mix of grudge meter and harmony of Cathay.
Each tier of favour from each offers benefits but big penalties for being too imbalanced (if there is a full tier of difference between worship/support of the two you get penalties). Campaign victory dependent on fulling up meter on both sides.
- Worship of old; Lorenzo seeks out artefacts of Lucan and Luccina as well as the old Reman empire. Finding these will give buffs and can boost up the support of either side (or both) depending on the item (similar to Thorek Ironbrow searching for the pieces in settlements).
- Reman Empire of Old , Lorenzo Lupo gains unique access to unique Reman legionnaires, in 3 tiers like hastati, reman legionnaire and reman heavy legionnaire.
5. Edvard van der Kraal
- Captain of Mannan’s Blades, access to shipbuilding and increased sacking income, cheaper mercenary recruitment and increased bonuses of mercenary contracts
- Great city of Marienburg, decrease relations with Empire, Marienburg becomes major race capital (10 slots), uses Empire state troops as base roster in unison with DoW mechanic and some unique Marienburg units (like the landship). Dutch names
-Mercantile traditions: Gives access to trade port mechanic. When capturing settlement, has the option to set up trade colony, kinda like undercity, pirate cove, cult, CK2 republic mechanic...) submenu focused on trade/income and defence of the settlement. Can be set-up passively whilst in special encamp stance with lord for a fixed sum of money.
- Gets priest of Mannan hero instead of priestess of myrmidia.
6. Lupio Sunscryer
- The Emperor of Estalia, seeks to unify all of Estalia. Gives temporary buffs to faction for each Estalian settlement he takes. Each unified region of Estalia giving him a permanent buff and special unit (like the empire a bit). Regions of Estalian Empire also include Tobaro, Skavenblight and Carcassone for Lupio.
Shares most of the roster with Tilea, more Spanish themed reskin and names. Has access to a few unique Estalian units (like conquistadors, etc...)
- Devoted to Myrmidia, higher recruit rank for battle priest of Myrmidia, can have Priests of Myrmidia lords too. Stronger myrmidian knights. Unique myrmidian foot knights for Lupio.

· Lord and Heroes

Lord types
- Merchant Prince, focuses on buffing ‘’state’’ troops and campaign benefits (trade, public order, income and growth)
- Mercenary Prince focuses on buffing DoW units, lowering their upkeep and focus on battle buffs (also state troops but mainly DoW units)
-Hedge Wizard Lord, buffs units to lesser extent then both other options but has access to magic.

Hero types
- Paymaster, buffs morale and efficiency of DoW units around him, melee support unit, has increase replenishment
- Mercenary veteran, strong melee hero, combat focused, has train army
- Hedge wizard, magic user, has the artefact loot chance
- Battle Priestess of Myrmidia, buffs morale and unit efficiency, buffing prayers. Has access to magic attacks, replenishment and train army.
- Assassins (locked to Lucrezzia,), possibly could be unlocked by landmark in Pavona or by confederating her, focus on damaging armies with poison and killing characters and lord on the campaign map.

· Armies and troops

‘’State troops’’
- City Militia, base unit that can be recruited from tier one settlement. Armed with shield and spear, not very strong but cheap
- Pikemen, strong line holder, weak on flank but excellent front on. Tier 1 barrack unit
- Light Crossbow men. Crossbow men with shields on their back that they can use whilst reloading. Good range and AP, good missile block chance. Tier 1
- Pavise Crossbow men. Crossbow men with shields on their back that they can use whilst reloading. Good range and AP, good missile block chance. Tier 2
- Duelists. Two handed sword fighters with light armor, great at flanking or holding the flank. Tier 2
- Light cannons. Horse drawn and quick these cannons can reposition quickly around battlefield. Not amazing damage but still cannon. Tier 3
- Veteran Pikemen, stronger overall version of the base Pikemen. Tier 3
- Knights of Myrmidia, special religious unit, quite strong for tier 3 but needs specific religious building. Tier 3
- Heavy Pavise Crossbow men. Elite crossbow men with shield. Special option to deploy shields as wall and use for cover. Incredible missile block chance and increase rate of fire but immobile. Tier 4
- Republican Guard, Elite and heavily armoured pikemen unit. Encourage ability. Tier 4
- Tilean Marines, very similar to Venetian heavy infantry in M2TW, armoured and AP, good on the flanks. Tier 4
- Princely knights. Elite armoured cavalry, best money can buy in equipment and soldiers (like broken lances in M2TW). Tier 5
- Leonardo’s battle tank. Super heavily armoured tank, can shoot from all direction (because its round). tier 5

Dogs of War units and RoR
- Basically all of the famous RoR we see in all the lore videos, but option to have more than 1, but not more than 3.
- Huge variety of DoW units, slim selection of all races’ (except chaos/demons) roster. Some races more easy to recruit then others (like ogres and human factions).

Some units I would like to see as basic Dow units: Black arc corsairs, lothern sea guard, dwarf thunderers, orc boyz, empire hellstorm rocket battery, amazon warriors, gryphon legion, bretonnian knights, norscan reavers, ogres (almost all varient) and a few possible teases at further lore such as Ronin (Samurai from Nippon) and Halfling cooks. Additionally, could see a mercenary version of state troops as well in case you need an emergency army recruited quickly

· Some final words and justifications

- In lore the term Dog’s of War originally comes from Tilea, so DLC makes sense to focus on them.

- Tilean cities in lore are described as rich, big and more independant and self-sufficient than others, tried reflecting the city state nature by making all the cities bigger.

- Tilea and Southern realms are very barren and the game definitely needs some new playable order factions to help out, especially if chaos dwarfs will come too.

- Marienburg also deserves some representation and adds an order faction to the Empire region (lord knows they need it). Furthermore, Marienburg is also represented on the RoC map, hence making more sense for it to be the main FLC rather than Lupio.

-Still there needs to be some Estalian representation and nothing better to reward loyal players of game 1 who have had the southern realms always present and never playable with a bonus FLC to fill up the south.

-Mercenary contract mechanic should be a fun mechanic which offers a lot of diversity in terms of fighting factions and battle maps across the Immortal empires. Through this mechanic you wouldn’t even need to expand too much in order to have action across the world. The fact that it would TP you close to the combat would also negate you loosing precious contract time have to sail or walk over (sometimes vast) amounts of the map. I believe also being able to choose whether an LL or generic lord goes on contract is a good choice, as you may want to keep your strongest army on hand for a neighbouring war but you might want to make some extra money on the side while levelling up a weaker lord/army.

-All the Tilean lords can easily be changed places on the RoC map (can easily say they have been contracted, wanted to set up trade, found a new husband..., or some artifacts were taken up north).

-The lords mechanics are inspired by their personality in lore, what they have done, what they want to do and keeping in mind a fun but balanced mechanic (ofc some inspiration from other races. Also tried to make sure that each faction/lord has a different playstyle).

-In IE Lupo has to start away from Luccini or else land would be too crowded initially, especially with Sartosa starting right next to it and usually capturing it early on. Lupo’s mechanic and motivation is perfect to start a bit further away and also allow to have border princes region to have a playable faction and LL in it.

-I believe in the future we might be able to see a Border Prince LL that could be part of the DoW race, but in my opinion, none of them were important enough to make the cut for the DLC.

-Feel free to add some units/heroes or mechanics to elaborate on them

-For anybody inspired by this post and my suggestions I would strongly ask that you respect my intellectual work. Whilst I won't, like, copyright my ideas, I do ask that they are respected. In the case of content creators (youtubers, modders, etc…), please reference me and this post if you make content for it.
In the case of CA, please contact me directly if you intend to implement most, or some of these ideas and mechanics. Would like to chip in some more and potentially ask for a favor (not financial).

Great post, I totally agree

Wood_Sprite#1284

I don't mind seeing Dogs of War coming in, the more the merrier, but I do think that this version seriously lacks oomph compared to the roster that, for example, Chaos Dwarfs would bring.

The only unique unit that I see from Southern Realms themselves is that flying infantry, and perhaps the shielded crossbowmen to some extent. I would like to see more flavor in the roster beyond this, just like the Empire or Bretonnia have their unique units like Helstorm Rocket Batteries or Grail Knights that really show the strength of that faction.

Perhaps GW can develop some more units for DoW while they are working on all the other new stuff in OW?

mecanojavi99#6562

I mean, I understand what you are going for but I really have to disagree with a lot of it.

First of all, LL wise, this feels more like a Tilea DLC than a proper Southern Realms/DoW one, they are known for their diversity in both units and characters and you went and picked 4 Tileans for the initial 4? Only Lucrezzia being truly different since she is a mage.

A better initial lineup would be 2 Tileans, 1 Estalian and one Border Prince.

Also, you don't seem to know, but Lupio isn't a real character, it's a made up name for the Estalia Faction, the same as Dimitry Tzariov when Kislev wasn't playable, for a proper Estalian LL from the Lore there is Issabela Giovanna, the leader of the Cult of Myrmidia and who's seat of power is on Magritta, she being a warrior since the Cult of Myrmidia is a militant order, being basically the Volkmar of the Southern Realms.

For the Border Prince, the best choice IMO would be Gashnag, not only is he unique gameplay wise being a hybrid caster LL, but also Lore wise a "good" strigoi vampire is far more interesting and works perfectly as an example of the diversity of the DoW.

For the 2 extra LLs, Edvard is fine, Marienburg is closer to the DoW than the Empire army wise, being heavily reliant on mercenaries and Edvard could arrive in a DLC with a mix of Mannan and Marieburg related units, like the Landship, Knigths Mariner and Swords of Mannan.

For the second DLC LL I would choose either El Cadavo (a human explorer of Lustria to represent the Southern Realm Colonies) or Mydas, being a Paymaster LL.

Then the thing with the map, I really don't see CA making drastic changes to the sizes of the landmass, for every landmass you expand some other has to be squeezed to fit in the set space, so bigger Southern Realms cannot be made just like that.

Unit wise, you are being either too generic or going way overboard.

You can make generic units out of all the DoW RoR, Dessert Riders based on Al Muktars Dessert Dogs, for example.

There is not such thing as "Leonardo's Tanks", the only tank unit the DoW have I'd the Landship.

"Myrmidian Knigths" but not any of the known Orders, like the Knigths of the Rigtheous Spear? Blazing Sun? Heck, where are the Mannan Orders like the Knigths Mariner.

And I really don't see the necessity for generic units of other Races, if you want those you have the Allied units system for that.

I could say more, but I don't want to make this unnecessarily long.

AxiosXiphos#9040

You know there's alot of DoW related quotes in warhammer 3. I'm gathering them up and might make a post on it.

SkyMagicx#2091

Wood_Sprite#1284 said:

I don't mind seeing Dogs of War coming in, the more the merrier, but I do think that this version seriously lacks oomph compared to the roster that, for example, Chaos Dwarfs would bring.

The only unique unit that I see from Southern Realms themselves is that flying infantry, and perhaps the shielded crossbowmen to some extent. I would like to see more flavor in the roster beyond this, just like the Empire or Bretonnia have their unique units like Helstorm Rocket Batteries or Grail Knights that really show the strength of that faction.

Perhaps GW can develop some more units for DoW while they are working on all the other new stuff in OW?

I agree that the "state" troops are a bit generic but that was somewhat on purpose. DoW's oompf would come from their ability to recruit the mercenary units, and it's diversity there. Also potentially unique mercenary units that no facrion has. If the base roster was too flashy, recruiting mercenaries would be redundant.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing new units from GW. I just didn't feel comfortable making up too much that deviates from established lore for this post.

SkyMagicx#2091

mecanojavi99#6562 said:

I mean, I understand what you are going for but I really have to disagree with a lot of it.

First of all, LL wise, this feels more like a Tilea DLC than a proper Southern Realms/DoW one, they are known for their diversity in both units and characters and you went and picked 4 Tileans for the initial 4? Only Lucrezzia being truly different since she is a mage.

A better initial lineup would be 2 Tileans, 1 Estalian and one Border Prince.

Also, you don't seem to know, but Lupio isn't a real character, it's a made up name for the Estalia Faction, the same as Dimitry Tzariov when Kislev wasn't playable, for a proper Estalian LL from the Lore there is Issabela Giovanna, the leader of the Cult of Myrmidia and who's seat of power is on Magritta, she being a warrior since the Cult of Myrmidia is a militant order, being basically the Volkmar of the Southern Realms.

For the Border Prince, the best choice IMO would be Gashnag, not only is he unique gameplay wise being a hybrid caster LL, but also Lore wise a "good" strigoi vampire is far more interesting and works perfectly as an example of the diversity of the DoW.

For the 2 extra LLs, Edvard is fine, Marienburg is closer to the DoW than the Empire army wise, being heavily reliant on mercenaries and Edvard could arrive in a DLC with a mix of Mannan and Marieburg related units, like the Landship, Knigths Mariner and Swords of Mannan.

For the second DLC LL I would choose either El Cadavo (a human explorer of Lustria to represent the Southern Realm Colonies) or Mydas, being a Paymaster LL.

Then the thing with the map, I really don't see CA making drastic changes to the sizes of the landmass, for every landmass you expand some other has to be squeezed to fit in the set space, so bigger Southern Realms cannot be made just like that.

Unit wise, you are being either too generic or going way overboard.

You can make generic units out of all the DoW RoR, Dessert Riders based on Al Muktars Dessert Dogs, for example.

There is not such thing as "Leonardo's Tanks", the only tank unit the DoW have I'd the Landship.

"Myrmidian Knigths" but not any of the known Orders, like the Knigths of the Rigtheous Spear? Blazing Sun? Heck, where are the Mannan Orders like the Knigths Mariner.

And I really don't see the necessity for generic units of other Races, if you want those you have the Allied units system for that.

I could say more, but I don't want to make this unnecessarily long.

I agree that my proposed DoW/Southern realms DLC is heavily Tilea centric. I started of the post with that fact and reiterated its justification a few times. My reasoning is, and we may disagree on that, that Tilea (as a subfaction) has more lore than all the different subfactions of DoW and they are the origin for the DoW. So this ''race'' would be launched by its origins (and be complete in terms of LL) and then pave the way for LLs from all the other subraces, like border princes, Estalia (and potentially Araby). You righfully mention El Cadavo and Gashnag (although I don't agree on Mydas as he would, I think, be a poor LL, maybe better as LH).

I also like your proposition of making generic versions of the RR units ! And also thank you for pointing out the other knightly order which I was not aware off. Could definitely make its way into it, either as base DLC or by future DLC (although CA still has not added knights panther to empire...).

For Lupio, I guess I was fooled by this page https://sunscryer.fandom.com/wiki/Lupio_Sunscryer. That being said I think he would make for a fun character nevertheless.

All this being said, whilst I also don't agree with everything I do welcome your ideas. I would welcome even more ideas, as long as they are presented constructively. I remind you that my post is after all a ''realistic'' proposition of what the DLC could look like and I don't pretend its the gospel or the absolute version.