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Suggestion for more incentive to use rebels

#18244#18244 Registered Users Posts: 3
Hi everyone, thanks for stopping by.

TL:DR : I think fomenting rebellions is a rather untapped potential. I believe rebellions are too weak (they often fail against garrisons that were just sacked in my experience), and a bit too ''unknown'' to the players. I would love it if it was worth it to raid/sack a region to pop a rebellion. I think it would give a nice opportunity to create new allies/vassals/buffer states. This would be especially true for factions like Tzeentch that can pop rebellions with the changer of ways.

I was looking around the startpos file and I noticed that a lot of factions can be respawned through rebels, but that information is nowhere to be seen when in-game. I think it could incentivize the player to play with the public order of other factions if they could see somewhere what rebellion would result from this meddling. It could be quite functional on an RP standpoint, and give the players interesting new options in the mid-to-late game.

While browsing through the startpos file, I noticed that some factions are not respawnable, mostly new factions introduced in Immortal Empires. Below is a list of such oddities. I love exploring the startpos file (I did it a lot with Empire Total War when I was younger, good memories), but these are my findings of today :

Ogre Kingdoms : Unrespawnables : Sharktooth in the Isthmus of Lustria, Flamegullets in Naggaroth, Feastmasters in the Badlands, Rock Skulls in the Northern World's Edge Mountains (even though they are landed at the start). Weirdly though, the Treehammers (camp only) can be respawned in Karak Ungor.

Nurgle : Unrespawnable : Pallid Nurslings in Lustria.

Khorne : Unrespawnable : Blood Keepers in Lustria.

Slaanesh : Unrespawnable (even through ''Create Vassal'') : Keepers of Bliss in the Isthmus of Lustria.

Tzeentch : Unrespawnables : Sarthorael's watchers in the Southlands, The Sightless in Albion, Apostles of Change in Lustria.

Lizardmen : One oddity is that the faction of Teotiqua exists for Immortal Empires, but there is no way of spawning it. A rebellion in the Teotiqua region spawns the Skavens of Clan Mordkin, as like 4 other regions do in case of rebellion.

High Elves : Order of the Loremasters is respawnable in the Fuming Serpent region, in Lustria ... While the minor faction ''Fortress of Dawn'' is spawnable in the southernmost province of the Southlands, even though they do not exist at the start of Immortal Empire. Nagarythe is respawnable in ... Nagarythe, which makes sense.

Warriors of Chaos : Azazel can be revived in ... the Red Fortress ? (Probably a remnant of the RoC campaign.) Kholek is revivable in Dragon's Death, and Valkia in Ironfrost. Other LLs are not revivable from what I can see.

I haven't had time to look at other races yet.

I hope this is interesting to some people, and I really believe incentivizing rebellions could add depth to the gameplay of a lot of factions. Cheers everyone, thanks for reading.

Comments

  • Slayer_Yannir#8069Slayer_Yannir#8069 Registered Users Posts: 2,723
    edited November 2022
    #18244 said:



    Lizardmen : One oddity is that the faction of Teotiqua exists for Immortal Empires, but there is no way of spawning it. A rebellion in the Teotiqua region spawns the Skavens of Clan Mordkin, as like 4 other regions do in case of rebellion.

    High Elves : Order of the Loremasters is respawnable in the Fuming Serpent region, in Lustria ... While the minor faction ''Fortress of Dawn'' is spawnable in the southernmost province of the Southlands, even though they do not exist at the start of Immortal Empire. Nagarythe is respawnable in ... Nagarythe, which makes sense.

    Fortress of Dawn and Teotiqua were probably factions that were in the area at some earlier incarnation of the campaign during development. Maybe they intended Queek to start in Yuatek as per his Vortex startpos and those were to be his starting opponents but then they decided to put Teclis and Kairos (and Clan Mordkin) there instead.
    Formerly known as Yannir. Oaths have been taken.
  • 撿骨頭#8601撿骨頭#8601 Registered Users Posts: 71
    I saw in WH1 the Chaos rebels burned my city and then turned to join the Archaon's army, and I was terrified. It's a terrible cycle, I think it's needed now, and everyone should be afraid of the Chaos God.
  • #18244#18244 Registered Users Posts: 3
    Dwarves : Belegar Ironhammer seems to not be revivable, but in its place, you can actually spawn the faction ''Karak Izor'', which existed prior to Belegar.
  • 4fourcztery#60764fourcztery#6076 Registered Users Posts: 564
    edited November 2022
    #18244 said:

    Dwarves : Belegar Ironhammer seems to not be revivable, but in its place, you can actually spawn the faction ''Karak Izor'', which existed prior to Belegar.

    I think that's because IE has a embedded older version of ME.

    Really , really old.

    That would explain why there are multiple lls spawns missing.
  • lcmiracle#6727lcmiracle#6727 Registered Users Posts: 1,133
    I wish there's a way to "sponsor" rebels in neighboring territories, sort of like how Middenland is the little-veiled puppet master behind the Reikland rebels in the Empire campaign. That'd be a fun way to resurrect dead factions IMO, creating allies in prospective regions.
    Imagine if you would, Karak Azul has been taken over, you, as the GREAT AND GLORIOUS EMPIRE, pushed the greenskin scums back towards the lower Badlands, and was confronted with unfavourable terrains all around, with regions being difficult to hold. What you want, is a Dwarf ally able to control and grow the region for you. Thorgrim is now gone, Ungrim is too far away. Belegar is, somewhere, you are sure. What you need, is King Kazador Dragonslayer! And so happens he and his kin had taken up to harass their oppressors from the mountains, too weak to pose a true threat, but should the political climate permits, he may rise to lead his shackled folks once more!
    You, Karl Franz, the Prince and Emperor, commissioned for the Dwarf smiths in Altdorf and Nuln to forge cannons and rifles, even heavy mails for the Dwarf refugees and contacted the exiled Dwarf king for a pact. Monies are to be sent to the outcasts to organize an uprising from within while the newly raised Dwarf warriors storm the city from without. And the Empire may sit on its butts for the harvest to instead storm the stronghold should the Dwarfs fail.

    ...anyway, it's like a proxy war, you get massive relationship penalty with the region's owner but will be considered a saviour to the rebels should they successfully resurrected themselves. You won't get to vassalize them since it would force you into a war with the former owner, but you can also choose to ally or vassalize the new faction should you wish.
  • #18244#18244 Registered Users Posts: 3
    From what I could see, Norsca only has the Kul as unrespawnable. All new emerging Norscans through the Warriors of Chaos vassal creation mechanic can also appear through rebellion.
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