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Give T3 Minor S. their dang wall option back.

Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 16,479
edited December 2022 in General Discussion
Seriously. Minor settlements are even more annoying to hold onto now than ever they were. Especially with these garrisons.

Was your point to make minor settlements such a PITA that we cry to the heavens to get pop up towers back?

Because honestly both this and that suck.

Fix the maps pathing/clipping/cliffsides. Get rid of pop up defenses outside of deployment. Make race specific pop up graphics ****. And let the t3 garrison building put up walls proper again. Consider adding a "sally battle" option or something for the people who QQ about siege play on them.

That we have to wait months in this pathetic state is really annoying the heck outta me. Bought this game in the fall and only got like a month of enjoyment out of it because of this nonsense. It's really poor form to make a big controversial ill-considered change and then go off on holiday for months. If you're going to do that you may as well sell this game as a cheap monthly service instead of as an actual released game that cost $60 base + DLC.

This is shameful of you guys.

Total War has had issues in the past but this is the first time they've ever been awful enough for me to actually stop enjoying the game and be upset with the series. WH3 was supposed to be the chosen one, but instead we're getting a gimpy on-fire emo-Anakin version. Not cool.
Post edited by BillyRuffian#6250 on
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Comments

  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,479
    Oh.

    And hide these dang numbers by the username.
  • Darksteel83#1113Darksteel83#1113 Registered Users Posts: 595

    Seriously. Minor settlements are even more annoying to hold onto now than ever they were. Especially with these garrisons.

    Was your point to make minor settlements such a PITA that we cry to the heavens to get pop up towers back?

    Because honestly both this and that suck.

    Fix the maps pathing/clipping/cliffsides. Get rid of pop up defenses outside of deployment. Make race specific pop up graphics ****. And let the t3 garrison building put up walls proper again. Consider adding a "sally battle" option or something for the people who QQ about siege play on them.

    That we have to wait months in this pathetic state is really annoying the heck outta me. Bought this game in the fall and only got like a month of enjoyment out of it because of this nonsense. It's really poor form to make a big controversial ill-considered change and then go off on holiday for months. If you're going to do that you may as well sell this game as a cheap monthly service instead of as an actual released game that cost $60 base + DLC.

    This is shameful of you guys.

    Total War has had issues in the past but this is the first time they've ever been awful enough for me to actually stop enjoying the game and be upset with the series. WH3 was supposed to be the chosen one, but instead we're getting a gimpy on-fire emo-Anakin version. Not cool.

    I like the current reduction in the minor settlement battles. But a big part of that is because I really don't like the current implementation of them. Patch 2.2 was the first time I could really enjoy the game without mods. Pre ordered the game on the first day.

    Pop-up really need to be pre deployment only. I use the no more real-time building mod for that. You get more supplies during deployment. But no more building when the battle is started.
    Indeed also the map layouts should me changed and more varied.

    I hope the (minor) settlement battles get fixed in 2.4 or 3.0
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,952
    At T3 with Defensive Building 2, Walls should be present.
    At T3, with Defensive Building 1, "Minor Settlement Spam" map should be enabled, with Towers only built on DEPLOYMENT, and they match the graphical style of the map itself.
    At T3, with 0 Defensive Buildings, the battle should be Open Field, with a meaningful garrison.

    Thank you, that is all you need to do CA.
    Kneel

  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,479
    edited November 2022

    At T3 with Defensive Building 2, Walls should be present.
    At T3, with Defensive Building 1, "Minor Settlement Spam" map should be enabled, with Towers only built on DEPLOYMENT, and they match the graphical style of the map itself.
    At T3, with 0 Defensive Buildings, the battle should be Open Field, with a meaningful garrison.

    Thank you, that is all you need to do CA.

    Probably almost good enough.

    But no, the maps themselves need to be altered. They have really weird pathing/clipping issues and all those wonderful cliffs and firing platforms are entirely unusable because you can't get close to the edge or dock.

    Also the pop ups do need race specific graphics. It's really jarring. They also need balancing.

    So it's not enough -- but would be a reasonable start.
  • manpersal#3961manpersal#3961 Registered Users Posts: 3,397
    You can count on my axe.
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,952


    Probably almost good enough.

    But no, the maps themselves need to be altered. They have really weird pathing/clipping issues and all those wonderful cliffs and firing platforms are entirely unusable because you can't get close to the edge or dock.




    Kneel

  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,113
    1. Give walls back.
    2. Revert garrison nerf
    3. Add a toggle so we can decided if we want minor siege maps on unwalled settlements

    It's not that hard.
  • Nitros14#7973Nitros14#7973 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,922
    edited November 2022
    I disagree.

    Garrisons should help the player's army defend territory, or whittle down the invading force. They shouldn't literally defeat enemy invasions by themselves, while costing no upkeep, so the player doesn't have to defend their territory at all. Supply lines is mostly gone you can make small defensive armies now.
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,113

    I disagree.

    Garrisons should help the player's army defend territory, or whittle down the invading force. They shouldn't literally defeat enemy invasions by themselves, while costing no upkeep, so the player doesn't have to defend their territory at all. Supply lines is mostly gone you can make small defensive armies now.

    You shouldn't defeat doomstack with just your garrison but the current ones are worthless for a lot of races. People aren't asking for an extreme or the other but for a reasonnable middle ground.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767
    Wait. Minor settlements with maxxed out Garrisons don't have walls?
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,952

    Wait. Minor settlements with maxxed out Garrisons don't have walls?

    lol no they broke it pretty good.
    Kneel

  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767

    Wait. Minor settlements with maxxed out Garrisons don't have walls?

    lol no they broke it pretty good.
    Daum.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • saj1987#4378saj1987#4378 Registered Users Posts: 481

    Seriously. Minor settlements are even more annoying to hold onto now than ever they were. Especially with these garrisons.

    Was your point to make minor settlements such a PITA that we cry to the heavens to get pop up towers back?

    Because honestly both this and that suck.

    Fix the maps pathing/clipping/cliffsides. Get rid of pop up defenses outside of deployment. Make race specific pop up graphics ****. And let the t3 garrison building put up walls proper again. Consider adding a "sally battle" option or something for the people who QQ about siege play on them.

    That we have to wait months in this pathetic state is really annoying the heck outta me. Bought this game in the fall and only got like a month of enjoyment out of it because of this nonsense. It's really poor form to make a big controversial ill-considered change and then go off on holiday for months. If you're going to do that you may as well sell this game as a cheap monthly service instead of as an actual released game that cost $60 base + DLC.

    This is shameful of you guys.

    Total War has had issues in the past but this is the first time they've ever been awful enough for me to actually stop enjoying the game and be upset with the series. WH3 was supposed to be the chosen one, but instead we're getting a gimpy on-fire emo-Anakin version. Not cool.

    Just gonna quote and agree so the devs see that their lazy removal of walls was not what the community was asking for.
  • #153592#153592 Registered Users Posts: 323

    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,952
    #153592 said:


    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !

    Minor Settlement Spam is not deleted, simply delayed, as is.
    Kneel

  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767

    #153592 said:


    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !

    Minor Settlement Spam is not deleted, simply delayed, as is.
    So do we get those at Max garrison now?

    I'm going to do a Dwarf campaign at some point, going to have to mod fix this.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Surge_2#1464Surge_2#1464 Registered Users Posts: 11,952

    #153592 said:


    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !

    Minor Settlement Spam is not deleted, simply delayed, as is.
    So do we get those at Max garrison now?

    I'm going to do a Dwarf campaign at some point, going to have to mod fix this.
    Not sure, I took a step back from the game after the last patch I tested Taurox again.

    I burn settlements, I dont build em.
    Kneel

  • Quinsec#2273Quinsec#2273 Member Registered Users Posts: 210
    Disagree, the current implementation is fine. The only change I would support is slightly larger garrisons for some races. Walled and minor settlement battles should happen sparingly. They make too many units irrelevant.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767

    Disagree, the current implementation is fine. The only change I would support is slightly larger garrisons for some races. Walled and minor settlement battles should happen sparingly. They make too many units irrelevant.

    The thing is, walled settlements aren't there to stop enemies, they're there to slow them down. To enable one of your armies to respond before you've lost 5 settlements. They exist to stop a steamroll, both ways.

    A garrison should be able to give a 20 stack army a bloody nose and keep them in place for a turn or two.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,479

    #153592 said:


    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !

    Minor Settlement Spam is not deleted, simply delayed, as is.
    So do we get those at Max garrison now?

    I'm going to do a Dwarf campaign at some point, going to have to mod fix this.
    What, the walls? No. Bretonnians also don't get them at T3 either.

    Honestly... without walls Dwarfs are probably going to be a frustrating campaign.
  • #140967#140967 Registered Users Posts: 35
    I "enjoy" when a trash minor faction full of 20 trash tier one units gets behind my lines and starts burring down all my T3 settlements with T3 garrisons and running away getting a good 3 or 4 reduced to ruins before catching them.
  • Jarms48#7854Jarms48#7854 Registered Users Posts: 360
    I don't know, I've been toying with the idea of just adding an extra tier of settlement building to minor settlements. No changes to building slots, just giving the building slot another level. For example:

    - Tier I settlement: Land battle
    - Tier II settlement: Land battle. Garrison building just adds units.
    - Tier III settlement: Land battle. Garrison building makes it a minor settlement battle and adds an additional unit.
    - Tier IV settlement: Minor settlement battle, adds generic hero unit. Garrison building makes it a walled settlement battle and adds an additional unit.

    Factions like Bretonnia for example could get a minor settlement battle with a tier III settlement building and walled settlement battle with a tier IV settlement building.

    This could also fix garrison strength too. For some factions it could simply be more units, for others it could upgrade existing units.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767

    #153592 said:


    Please make it possible to choose in the start of campaign settings whether to turn settlement battles into land battles or not.

    By doing this, you allow those who don't like having too many colony battles not to have any, but also those who find it better in terms of gameplay to have them back, because it's really currently annoying not to be able to defend its minor cities correctly...

    Of course the subject is complex and there are several different problems to solve, but deleting everything does not solve the problem, so please allow the option while waiting to solve this problem correctly.

    Thanks in advance !

    Minor Settlement Spam is not deleted, simply delayed, as is.
    So do we get those at Max garrison now?

    I'm going to do a Dwarf campaign at some point, going to have to mod fix this.
    What, the walls? No. Bretonnians also don't get them at T3 either.

    Honestly... without walls Dwarfs are probably going to be a frustrating campaign.
    I wouldn't do it in the current state. That's just not good enough.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Ghettobible#3796Ghettobible#3796 Registered Users Posts: 330
    The issue is so annoying that I don't bother to rebuild minor settlements anymore unless I have a nearby army occupying one that's important. There's simply no point in trying to defend them because a trash army can mow through the defenses rather easily.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,479
    #140967 said:

    I "enjoy" when a trash minor faction full of 20 trash tier one units gets behind my lines and starts burring down all my T3 settlements with T3 garrisons and running away getting a good 3 or 4 reduced to ruins before catching them.

    ...sarcasm?

    Gotta hold up the sign, man. The internet is a tricky place.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,767
    Makes me wonder if CA actually plays the game. Right now I'd want three mods to actually play a campaign.

    - Barricades and towers only being built before battle
    - Stronger Garrisons
    - Walls on T3 Settlements.
    - Ideally no attrition until 4-5 turns on a settlement.

    As an aside I really love having a crapstack for defence. Walls make that such a good way to have a big fight. A stack of Warriors and Quarrelers for Dwarfs, then it allows for these really big defensive battles.... or allowed. Now the AI just attritions you out and... ugh, no. Let me fight full strength against their full strength.
    There are only two people better than me, and I'm both of them" - Vanilla Gorilla I am The Beast, Descendant of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, The great bright delight, Conqueror of Mountains, Purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, The Teacher, Master Unbiased Pollster, The Avatar of Tuesday, Chief hype Train Conductor, Uwu Usurper, Pog Wog Warrior, Poggers Patroller, Alpha of the species, Apex protector, Praetor of Positivity, Drybrush Disciple, Sophisticated Savage.
  • Nitros14#7973Nitros14#7973 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,922
    edited November 2022
    #140967 said:

    I "enjoy" when a trash minor faction full of 20 trash tier one units gets behind my lines and starts burring down all my T3 settlements with T3 garrisons and running away getting a good 3 or 4 reduced to ruins before catching them.

    Perhaps you should defend yourself with your own armies.

    Did you know you can recruit lords in settlements and give them small defensive armies? If they're burning down all your settlements you should surely see them coming. Regiments of renown are quite good at that.
  • Itharus#3127Itharus#3127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,479

    #140967 said:

    I "enjoy" when a trash minor faction full of 20 trash tier one units gets behind my lines and starts burring down all my T3 settlements with T3 garrisons and running away getting a good 3 or 4 reduced to ruins before catching them.

    Perhaps you should defend yourself with your own armies.

    Did you know you can recruit lords in settlements and give them small defensive armies? If they're burning down all your settlements you should surely see them coming. Regiments of renown are quite good at that.
    Some places are really crappily spaced out and this isn't actually an option. It's also not feasible for every faction.
  • tadakatsu#9524tadakatsu#9524 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,626

    #140967 said:

    I "enjoy" when a trash minor faction full of 20 trash tier one units gets behind my lines and starts burring down all my T3 settlements with T3 garrisons and running away getting a good 3 or 4 reduced to ruins before catching them.

    Perhaps you should defend yourself with your own armies.

    Did you know you can recruit lords in settlements and give them small defensive armies? If they're burning down all your settlements you should surely see them coming. Regiments of renown are quite good at that.
    the more lords you train increases upkeep factionwide so no that is not a solution settlements should simply be settlements end of story no need for a garrison as that does not magically make a settlement disappear without one and the garrisons now are pathetic also CA has no way of tracking if their solution even worked on not having too many settlements or too many land battles since the statistics screen does not show it. in fact people would be far more likely to defend their home without a proper army than they would be to fight on the field thats why armies hate urban warfare due to how costly it is for the attacker.
  • Darksteel83#1113Darksteel83#1113 Registered Users Posts: 595

    The issue is so annoying that I don't bother to rebuild minor settlements anymore unless I have a nearby army occupying one that's important. There's simply no point in trying to defend them because a trash army can mow through the defenses rather easily.

    You can build the garrison building at lvl 2. This will make a settlement beter defended that it was in WH2 at lvl 2.

    A lvl 3 settlement with walls was beter in WH2. Then it is WH3.
This discussion has been closed.