Greasus vs Throgg TT stats comparison VS war 3

griffithx#1314

When comparing these TT incarnations of the two characters.





Then looking at their warhammer 3 stats. I can't help but think Greasus MD and HP should be higher than they currently are since Greasus has 6 WS on Table top and Throgg has 5 WS on TT yet in warhammer 3 Greasus has 65 MA and 38 MD while Throgg has 60 MA and 50 MD which leaves Throgg with 7 more combined MA/MD totals than greasus despite his lower WS on tabletop.

Then when you look at the two characters HP totals compared to their wounds Greasus has 6 wounds while Throgg has 4 wounds....yet in game Greasus only has 488 HP more than throgg despite have 1/3rd more wounds on TT. 1/3rd more wounds than Throgg in warhammer 3 would translate to something closer to 10,677 HP for Greasus instead of his current HP value of 8488.



In warhammer 3 with full Kit Greasus is 2200 and a full kit Throgg is 2150. To be fair a naked Greasus is 1500 and a naked Throgg is 1600.


I understand that TT stats are not the end all be all that things get changed in conversion for balance at times but Greasus definitely needs help so gotta start somewhere.
So putting those two factors together if Greasus was sitting at 65 MA 48 or 50 MD and 10,677 HP he would probably still have a lot of issues because of his animations but I think most people would agree he needs some more buffs currently.

lcmiracle#6727

Greasus by its model profile is highly vulnerable to being surrounded, as that means more models can attack him and therefore taking more damage, even if he had the same MD as Throgg. I'm not sure what the mass is for Greasus and Throgg, so I don't know who is better at getting out of an engagement; but Greasus having 30-ish speed and charge bonus should already scream that he is not a mobile character, and him having 30-ish MD also shows he's not a good fighter as far as melee lords goes. Also keep in mind in TT, Initative determines the order of attack, so Greasus' I1 would mean he is nearly always the last to strike, having to endure the barrage of blows of Throgg's I2 before retaliating. This is a disadvantage that is not represented in TWW, neither are the numbers of Attacks which is not the same as splash damage since in TWW splash is a fraction of the unit's total weapon strength while in TT every attack has the potential to do full damage.

I think Greasus is intended to be a support lord, may be a sort of strategic whacking stick that devastates a weakened foe, but not a hammer nor the anvil. It fits his character also as by this point he had become complacent, content to lay on his throne all day, rooted in one spot to take in all the tributes and tolls instead of his younger, more spirited self who subjugated Ogre tribes.

Although, his sceptre of titans, which is what makes him such a threat in TT -- S10 D3 Multiple Wounds, which means 3 of Greasus' attack would ignore all armour (it's a -7 modifier due to 7 points higher than S3 and the best armour save you get is 1+), wounding most units on a 2+ (83.3%) and no worse than 4+ (50%) -- is IMO pitiful in TWW. A measley 28 seconds to increase AP by 75% and something. That's maybe 4 whacks from Greasus, depending on the animation.

The_real_FAUST#6885

Greasus HP and MD should be higher yes

Sceptre of titans is also not as good as it should be, its genuinely one of the best weapons in TT

Keep the +AP but also add stunned to it

GloatingSwine#8098

lcmiracle#6727 said:

Although, his sceptre of titans, which is what makes him such a threat in TT -- S10 D3 Multiple Wounds, which means 3 of Greasus' attack would ignore all armour (it's a -7 modifier due to 7 points higher than S3 and the best armour save you get is 1+), wounding most units on a 2+ (83.3%) and no worse than 4+ (50%) -- is IMO pitiful in TWW. A measley 28 seconds to increase AP by 75% and something. That's maybe 4 whacks from Greasus, depending on the animation.

In 6 years they might fix Sceptre of Titans like they finally did Ghal Maraz, which was basically the same problem (and is the same D3 Multiple Wounds but on S6 not S10)

saweendra#3399

If he had snacks or something better he might actually be viable.


But as of right now he suck.

ThibixMagnus#8300

looking at those rules his support abilities on TT were extremely strong. That would be a useful direction for buffs I think, his animations and speed mean he has little use for high stats. I'd say increasing the range of the buffs and debuffs. He could use some armor as well, given that in total war armor is one way to approximate "toughness" (and lots of naked dudes in the roster have higher armor than him, or crushers to represent how hairy the mounts are?).