Bretonnia -8 MD change in 2.3.0

La_Issa#6259

The text of the update states that the change to "Lance" formation was intended to make Bret cavalry stronger. But NO! It didn't!

It now adds 50% to the unit mass and it is good... only against INFANTRY.

There are a lot of situations where 50% mass does not play any role - fighting SEMs or fighting other cavalry for example. However, -8 MD does play a role here and makes Bret cav even more vulnerable, even harder to control and even more punishing in case of a wrong engagement.

In general the change just discourages the use of Lance formation unless you are going to charge in an infantry blob.

Loupi#8512

thats kinda the point

saweendra#3399

yes thats the intended role of it. i don't get the premise of this thread

La_Issa#6259

DEV NOTE:

Both player feedback and our own data indicate that Bretonnia is underperforming in battle, particularly in multiplayer. Infantry is a bit too costly, and Cavalry too weak.

As such, we’ve lowered the cost of the faction’s more defensive infantry and added a considerable mass multiplier on Formation Lance (present on most of the Bretonnian Cavalry), allowing them to break through enemy units more effectively.

Source: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-230/#bretonnia

Patch note says that this change was intended to make Bretonnia more competitive and fix the "Cavalry too weak" thing. Even though, it made cavalry even weaker instead. That's what I'm stating.

1. Bret cav with new lance VS infantry - ok, they are now stronger in this situation
2. Bret cav with new lance VS monsters/single entities - they got worse than they were due to -8 MD and mass plays little role here and does not help
3. Bret cav with new lance VS other cav - they got worse than they were because mass gives them nothing and -8 MD makes them more vulnerable

So, out of 3 possible scenarions they are better in 1 and worse in 2 so this update made Bret cav even worse on average.

saweendra#3399

La_Issa#6259 said:

DEV NOTE:

Both player feedback and our own data indicate that Bretonnia is underperforming in battle, particularly in multiplayer. Infantry is a bit too costly, and Cavalry too weak.

As such, we’ve lowered the cost of the faction’s more defensive infantry and added a considerable mass multiplier on Formation Lance (present on most of the Bretonnian Cavalry), allowing them to break through enemy units more effectively.

Source: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-230/#bretonnia

Patch note says that this change was intended to make Bretonnia more competitive and fix the "Cavalry too weak" thing. Even though, it made cavalry even weaker instead. That's what I'm stating.

1. Bret cav with new lance VS infantry - ok, they are now stronger in this situation
2. Bret cav with new lance VS monsters/single entities - they got worse than they were due to -8 MD and mass plays little role here and does not help
3. Bret cav with new lance VS other cav - they got worse than they were because mass gives them nothing and -8 MD makes them more vulnerable

So, out of 3 possible scenarions they are better in 1 and worse in 2 so this update made Bret cav even worse on average.

nah pick when to use it .


its literally not hard. and they are just as good or bad vs any unit .

the only thing that changed really imo for brets out side of lance formation

hippogryph knights kind of suck, royal peg knights are incredibly good

and the rest of roster performs just as well in head to head encounters

but suffers more due over all cav speed changes against decent players

and there are more monstours cav types which beat any cav brets use head to head so there is more chances for people to out cav bret armies

Spellbound1875#4610

La_Issa#6259 said:

DEV NOTE:

Both player feedback and our own data indicate that Bretonnia is underperforming in battle, particularly in multiplayer. Infantry is a bit too costly, and Cavalry too weak.

As such, we’ve lowered the cost of the faction’s more defensive infantry and added a considerable mass multiplier on Formation Lance (present on most of the Bretonnian Cavalry), allowing them to break through enemy units more effectively.

Source: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-230/#bretonnia

Patch note says that this change was intended to make Bretonnia more competitive and fix the "Cavalry too weak" thing. Even though, it made cavalry even weaker instead. That's what I'm stating.

1. Bret cav with new lance VS infantry - ok, they are now stronger in this situation
2. Bret cav with new lance VS monsters/single entities - they got worse than they were due to -8 MD and mass plays little role here and does not help
3. Bret cav with new lance VS other cav - they got worse than they were because mass gives them nothing and -8 MD makes them more vulnerable

So, out of 3 possible scenarions they are better in 1 and worse in 2 so this update made Bret cav even worse on average.

Previously lance formation was a negative against infantry due to how it changed entity positioning. Charges had less contact so impact damage was lower. The new paradigm where Lance formation is good against infantry (though more because of the mobility increases than damage changes from the extra mass imo) and non-lance formation is optimal against large targets is a flexibility improvement, and a significant one at that.

Loupi#8512

lance is for breaking through infantry, thats all. if you are trying to use it all the time in every engagement you are using it wrong

The_real_FAUST#6885

Lance is only vs inf.

If you are fighting a combine dcav and inf force then you shouldn't be using it, but you also are likely to lose that no matter what formation it is a 2v1