Chaos God Dynamics / Least Hated Siblings

Jaxhammer#8130

So, I was perusing the lore and playing the games, as one does and it occured to me...every god has one sibling they hate more than the other two, but is there a sibling each of them seems to like more than the other two (or...hate the least, I should say).

I ask this because I think I might have the answer for Khorne, at least. He seems to get on the best with Nurgle. During the Ebon Blade quest (Daemons of Chaos 7th Edition), he allies with Nurgle in order to secure the blade from Tzeentch. He has also fought Slaanesh with Nurgle. Skarbrand was allies with a Great Unclean One during one of the earliest Chaos Incursions (then killed him because the GOU was so presumptious as to lead to charge on the enemy when that was CLEARLY Skarbrand's honor, I mean, come on now). Hell, even in the Realms of Chaos plotline, I'm fairly certain you start off with a Non-Aggression agreement with Septic Claw, a Nurglish factions (and you're at war with almost everyone else around).

So who do you figure each god hates the least/is most likely to ally with?

I think, based off vibes alone:

Tzeentch hates Slaanesh the Least.
Slaanesh hates Nurgle the Least.
Nurgle hates Khorne the Least.

DarthEnderX-#6513

I would say that, the god that each god hates LEAST, is the god that they hate most, hates.

Edit: No wait, that doesn't work. Every hated god hates the other god back.

Which means lack of hatred is probably equally mutual. So Nurgle and Khorne hate each other the least, and Tzeentch and Slaanesh hate each other the least.

lcmiracle#6727

Well, according to the Realm of Chaos books, we have

Slaanesh against Khorne
Nurgle against Tzeentch

And Slaanesh is neutral to everyone else, as much as that word has meaning in this sort of things -- he's just too caught up in her own pleasure to care. I don't think there's a hates the least situation. Realms states that the opposition comes from the fundamental incompatibleness of what they represent. Nurgle is the stoicism in face of suffering and death, acceptance of fate; whereas Tzzentch's is the excitement from upending natural order and structures. One cannot embody both change and unchange at the same time. Meanwhile Khorne represents violence, pain and death, against Slaanesh's persuit of unrestricted pleasure.

So there may be close relations between Khorne and Nurgle as at least they agree death is good. But I think Slaanesh has a distaste of Nurgle as he is opposed to Slaanesh's aesthetics.

But there's a bit in 8th edition Daemons army book that says a part of Slaanesh's circles of sin is paramountcy -- the pleasure of reaching the top, which, is often what followers of Tzeentch sought through changes. Although Tzeentch, for his part, desire changes for changes sake. He may well scheme to bring down his own power just so the status quo is no more.

Still, the great game is not a game of friends and foes, it's a game of opportunity where all others are but a steping stone in supremacy and obstacle for your rivals; just as the book says

It's best not to take it too literally.

BaronKlatz#7357

Well according to new AoS lore (which being Chaos will count for this setting too) Khorne likes the other 3 better than his actual 7 siblings that he killed(making him the 8th and it his special number).

Loreguy#1056

Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other.

Also Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Tzeantch and Khorne are bros. Tzeientch is all about change. Khorne is all about war. War is just the ultimate form of change. Where Empires go to die, and plan upon plan is brought to final fruition.

Draxynnic#3149

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 said:

Tzeantch and Khorne are bros. Tzeientch is all about change. Khorne is all about war. War is just the ultimate form of change. Where Empires go to die, and plan upon plan is brought to final fruition.

Except that Tzeentch is also the god of magic, deceit, and cunning, and Khorne hates anyone who fights in a way he considers to be 'unfair' (which is to say, the way a bully considers anything to be 'unfair' unless it's unfair in his favour).

I think the general principle of Tzeentch and Slaanesh having the most tolerance for one another, while Khorne and Nurgle have the most tolerance for each other, fits. Tzeentch and Slaanesh both have a number of things they can agree on - intrigue, the search for knowledge, being able to act within a civilised realm without it being obvious what's going on. Khorne would hate Nurgle the least of the three because Nurgle is the most straightforward apart from Khorne himself - he's not an antithesis like Slaanesh, and he's not the embodiment of things that Khorne considers dishonourable like Tzeentch is. Nurgle is harder to pick, but disease and despair probably follows war more reliably than it does the pursuit of pleasure, however cruel and decadent.

Loreguy#1056 said:

Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other.

Also Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Well, the way Chaos works, they don't need to like each other for a being to exist that shares their characteristics.

Jaxhammer#8130

Loreguy#1056 said:

Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other.

Also Tzeentch and Nurgle.

LMAO.

Facts though, you could say the same about Khaine with Khorne and Slaanesh from what little I know about Dark Elves/Khaine.

Anyway, did a bit more thinking and Tzeentch and Slaanesh's both have the touchstones of acquiring knowledge for this or that reason. Aside from Tzeentch tricking Slaanesh into a war with his two brothers and the changeling cutting off Slaanesh's hair that one time (honestly just seems like Tzeentch being a troll rather than any true malice, though im sure these two ideas aren't total extricable), their portfolios mesh well. Change and Pleasure, in one vein, as Change means things never stay the same, meaning they never grow boring or same-y. For a god of experiences this is probably very important. On the flip side, Slaaneshi daemons make a trade out of hoarding secrets and such which I suppose meshes well with the Tzeentchian desire for knowledge?

Then again I've always sort of wondered how a Lord of Change ( compulsive liar and manipulator) would get on with a Keeper of Secrets (also called a silencer of lies). Can Keepers tell when the LoC is lying? I know even other Lords of Change cannot do that, but with the Keeper ability to read minds/hear anything said anywhere... unless that ability only work on mortals?

I also think it's a self-preservation thing. If Slaanesh goes down, that leaves the trio. Khorne and Nurgle, who have a rather long and demonstrated history of joining together, would both hate Tzeentch more than each other, as Tzeentch is both their rival, Khorne for power and Nurgle for Creed. It's very likely in a situation where Slaanesh isn't around, both Khorne and Nurgle join against Tzeentch and eliminate him. This leaves only Khorne and Nurgle and if they came to blows, I doubt Nurgle wins that clash.

Then again Slaanesh is kinda already gone is AoS and the other gods are still alive and kicking....Hmmm.

damon40000#7640

grandpa loves them all the same

Jaxhammer#8130

While we're on the subject, here's some more suppositions about the chaos gods in relation to each other based off Lore and Vibes (These are most-to-least likely):

Easiest God To Please/Generous: Nurgle, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh
Hardest to Please/Easiest to Anger: Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle
Most Jealous: Slaanesh, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne
Most Likely To Answer Prayers: Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne, Slaanesh
Most Likely To Engage In Direct Combat: Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch
Most Ravenous: Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch
Most Likely To Answer Petty Slights: Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle
Most Accepting: Slaanesh, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne
Communicates Directly With Followers: Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch
Most Likely To Daemon Prince You: Nurgle, Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch
Most Likely To Give You Good Mutations: Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch
Most Likely To Give You Bad Mutations: Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Khorne
Most Likely To Chaos Spawn You: Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle
Most Likely To Let Disobedience Slide: Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Khorne
Cares Most About Your Well-Being: Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Khorne
Cares The Least About Your Well Being: Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle
Most Likely To Instigate War With Fellow Gods: Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh
Mostly Likely To Be In Ascendency: Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle
Holds Ascendancy The Longest: Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle
Most Likely To Directly Revive Followers: Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch
Most Likely To Call Covenantal Meetings: Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh
Most Likely To Initiate Diplomacy: Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Khorne
Biggest Territory: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh
Biggest Army: Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle
Largest Physically: Tzeentch, Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh
Most Mortal Followers: Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle

lcmiracle#6727

I dunno if Khorne answer prayers more likely than Slaanesh -- Khorne is more like novel Crom, who as a Cimmerian god, is believed to hold distain towards all acts of worship to him, other than through actions (though apparent a monument is ok...). Conan said it's best not to draw his attention, as Crom only bestows trouble. He did save Conan once from a dishonouralbe death, unasked for.

That is basically a non-malevolent Khorne. And if the Blood Priests are anything to go by, yes, you don't pray to Khorne. You kill for Khorne. Only weaklings pray.

Slaanesh, on the other hand, likes to spoil his followers; it's about pleasure, and she is want to make them indulge in hedonistic joys of all forms. I figure a prayer to Slaanesh goes something like this

"Slaanesh, I have never prayed to you before. I have no whims for it. No one, not even you, will remember if these were good parties or bad. How we raved, and how we craved. All that matters is that today, none serves sweets. Wantoness pleases you, so grant me this one request. Grant me bejewelled floral cakes! And if you do not listen, the HELL with you!"

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Draxynnic#3149 said:

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 said:

Tzeantch and Khorne are bros. Tzeientch is all about change. Khorne is all about war. War is just the ultimate form of change. Where Empires go to die, and plan upon plan is brought to final fruition.

Except that Tzeentch is also the god of magic, deceit, and cunning, and Khorne hates anyone who fights in a way he considers to be 'unfair' (which is to say, the way a bully considers anything to be 'unfair' unless it's unfair in his favour).

I think the general principle of Tzeentch and Slaanesh having the most tolerance for one another, while Khorne and Nurgle have the most tolerance for each other, fits. Tzeentch and Slaanesh both have a number of things they can agree on - intrigue, the search for knowledge, being able to act within a civilised realm without it being obvious what's going on. Khorne would hate Nurgle the least of the three because Nurgle is the most straightforward apart from Khorne himself - he's not an antithesis like Slaanesh, and he's not the embodiment of things that Khorne considers dishonourable like Tzeentch is. Nurgle is harder to pick, but disease and despair probably follows war more reliably than it does the pursuit of pleasure, however cruel and decadent.

Loreguy#1056 said:

Tzeentch and Nurgle hating each other.

Also Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Well, the way Chaos works, they don't need to like each other for a being to exist that shares their characteristics.

See, they say that, but they don't show it. Khorne uses magic, khorne is literally made of magic, Khorne only cares that the blood flows. The whole reasoning for hating Tzeentch is arbitrary. That's fair in the sense of it's Chaos and it do be like that, but if it's not particularly logical.

Nurgle's not really straight forward. Rot and disease aren't necessarily visible on the surface things, and killing an enemy by making them sick would seemingly be as underhanded as a knife to the back. Slaaanesh I'm not sure on.

Jaxhammer#8130

lcmiracle#6727 said:

I dunno if Khorne answer prayers more likely than Slaanesh -- Khorne is more like novel Crom, who as a Cimmerian god, is believed to hold distain towards all acts of worship to him, other than through actions (though apparent a monument is ok...). Conan said it's best not to draw his attention, as Crom only bestows trouble. He did save Conan once from a dishonouralbe death, unasked for.

That is basically a non-malevolent Khorne. And if the Blood Priests are anything to go by, yes, you don't pray to Khorne. You kill for Khorne. Only weaklings pray.

Slaanesh, on the other hand, likes to spoil his followers; it's about pleasure, and she is want to make them indulge in hedonistic joys of all forms. I figure a prayer to Slaanesh goes something like this

"Slaanesh, I have never prayed to you before. I have no whims for it. No one, not even you, will remember if these were good parties or bad. How we raved, and how we craved. All that matters is that today, none serves sweets. Wantoness pleases you, so grant me this one request. Grant me bejewelled floral cakes! And if you do not listen, the HELL with you!"

Crom isn't Khorne though. The thinking is that Khorne is more practical while Slaanesh is more whimsical (Khorne is described as whimsical too on one occassion). Khorne answers prayers with consistency while Slaanesh is too busy looking in a mirror to listen to anyones prayers and those he does hear he probably answers maliciously, similar to N'kari.

Also, people definitely pray to Khorne. Valkia and several others did it in her book. *shrug*

Jaxhammer#8130

Also, according to the 7th edition Daemon Armies Book, Khorne hates Tzeentch because Tzeentch is the God of Magic. Fundamentally, that means Magic is not something Khorne could ever be the best at or dominate the others in practicing. Therefore, he declares it cowardice and worthless and hates magic users.

Which is hi-larious that it's so petty a reason. I love it.

Draxynnic#3149

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 said:

See, they say that, but they don't show it. Khorne uses magic, khorne is literally made of magic, Khorne only cares that the blood flows. The whole reasoning for hating Tzeentch is arbitrary. That's fair in the sense of it's Chaos and it do be like that, but if it's not particularly logical.

If Khorne's even thought it through that deeply, which is open for questioning, he'd probably claim that there's a difference between using magic to make someone a better fighter, and using magic to do the fighting.

The real distinction is that he's better at the former than the latter, so he's a hypocrite either way.

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 said:

Nurgle's not really straight forward. Rot and disease aren't necessarily visible on the surface things, and killing an enemy by making them sick would seemingly be as underhanded as a knife to the back. Slaaanesh I'm not sure on.

You're not wrong, but it's not a question of Khorne liking Nurgle, it's a question of Khorne hating Nurgle the least. He probably still regards death by disease as cheating someone of the chance to die by violence, but it beats the magic and intrigue that Tzeentch gets up to. At the bottom level, even the simplest of warriors still understands disease, even if they don't like it, while magic and intrigue can leave them completely confused and feeling cheated.

And Slaanesh is, naturally, Khorne's antithesis.

I think one other factor in them splitting that way is that Khorne and Nurgle are the most primal of the four - even the most primitive societies are going to experience them, and in fact, the most primitive societies are likely to experience them the most. Tzeentch and Slaanesh, on the other hand, are more along the lines of sins of society: you need to have politics to have political intrigue, you need to have some form of teaching structure to develop magical knowledge (and other forms of knowledge) beyond simply getting it from a daemon, and more developed societies allow for more forms of decadence. So Khorne and Nurgle have more incentive to bring society down altogether, while Tzeentch and Slaanesh still benefit from operating within a society, even if they still inevitably undermine it.

Ben1990#8909

Jaxhammer#8130 said:

So, I was perusing the lore and playing the games, as one does and it occured to me...every god has one sibling they hate more than the other two, but is there a sibling each of them seems to like more than the other two (or...hate the least, I should say).

I ask this because I think I might have the answer for Khorne, at least. He seems to get on the best with Nurgle. During the Ebon Blade quest (Daemons of Chaos 7th Edition), he allies with Nurgle in order to secure the blade from Tzeentch. He has also fought Slaanesh with Nurgle. Skarbrand was allies with a Great Unclean One during one of the earliest Chaos Incursions (then killed him because the GOU was so presumptious as to lead to charge on the enemy when that was CLEARLY Skarbrand's honor, I mean, come on now). Hell, even in the Realms of Chaos plotline, I'm fairly certain you start off with a Non-Aggression agreement with Septic Claw, a Nurglish factions (and you're at war with almost everyone else around).

So who do you figure each god hates the least/is most likely to ally with?

I think, based off vibes alone:

Tzeentch hates Slaanesh the Least.
Slaanesh hates Nurgle the Least.
Nurgle hates Khorne the Least.

Khorne also seems to hate Nurgle less than Tzeentch and Slaanesh...but only a little bit.

Jaxhammer#8130

Ben1990#8909 said:

Jaxhammer#8130 said:

So, I was perusing the lore and playing the games, as one does and it occured to me...every god has one sibling they hate more than the other two, but is there a sibling each of them seems to like more than the other two (or...hate the least, I should say).

I ask this because I think I might have the answer for Khorne, at least. He seems to get on the best with Nurgle. During the Ebon Blade quest (Daemons of Chaos 7th Edition), he allies with Nurgle in order to secure the blade from Tzeentch. He has also fought Slaanesh with Nurgle. Skarbrand was allies with a Great Unclean One during one of the earliest Chaos Incursions (then killed him because the GOU was so presumptious as to lead to charge on the enemy when that was CLEARLY Skarbrand's honor, I mean, come on now). Hell, even in the Realms of Chaos plotline, I'm fairly certain you start off with a Non-Aggression agreement with Septic Claw, a Nurglish factions (and you're at war with almost everyone else around).

So who do you figure each god hates the least/is most likely to ally with?

I think, based off vibes alone:

Tzeentch hates Slaanesh the Least.
Slaanesh hates Nurgle the Least.
Nurgle hates Khorne the Least.

Khorne also seems to hate Nurgle less than Tzeentch and Slaanesh...but only a little bit.

...Yes, that's a summation of the OP. The question is if this is applicable to the others.

DarthEnderX-#6513

Draxynnic#3149 said:

If Khorne's even thought it through that deeply, which is open for questioning, he'd probably claim that there's a difference between using magic to make someone a better fighter, and using magic to do the fighting.

Khorne doesn't hate magic, he hates spellcasters.

Like others have said, his daemons are still MADE of magic. And he approves of magic weapons and armor.

dogoska#1535

Khorne hates deceit and sorcery, as such, he hates Tzeentch because the raven god prefers to just scheme and deceive and when he fight he uses trickery still.

Those things may win a war but go against the purporse of war which is fighting for the sake of it, khornes loathes it as he should.

There are cases where a small deception might lead to a big war, which khorne seems to tolerate such is the case of Azariah Kyras in 40k as despite being a librarian, he sough to bring blood ravens to khorne letting them fill themselves with rage and bloodlust as he had (which he kept hidden).

Jaxhammer#8130

Yes. Therefore, Khorne would find Nurgle the least repulsive of the brothers. We've established that.

But what of the other three? I feel like Tzeentch only has true hatred for Nurgle, but just kinda sees Khorne and Slaanesh as toys to poke and prod at for his own amusement.

Draxynnic#3149

DarthEnderX-#6513 said:

Draxynnic#3149 said:

If Khorne's even thought it through that deeply, which is open for questioning, he'd probably claim that there's a difference between using magic to make someone a better fighter, and using magic to do the fighting.

Khorne doesn't hate magic, he hates spellcasters.

Like others have said, his daemons are still MADE of magic. And he approves of magic weapons and armor.

Eh, to-mah-to, to-may-to. That's basically exactly what I was referring to when I alluded to "there's a difference between using magic to make someone a better fighter, and using magic to do the fighting." You can narrow down on the details, and Tzeentch is still the god of sorcery and other stuff that Khorne considers dishonourable.