The Hooked Blade DLC for Wood Elves

Cebo#5715

For general idea why I choose the rosters, look into my previous entry and its intro:
The Empire DLCs
Greenskins DLCs
Dwarfs DLCs
Vampire Counts DLCs
Bretonnia FLC
Warriors of Chaos DLC


The gist of it is that I like sub factions that have a theme which add a distinct play style to the faction and round up the roster.

Some races have a higher chance of getting a DLC than others. Wood Elves, with what they have left from TT, are one of those races that have slim chances of getting one more DLC. But there is still enough room on the map and there are trees unused to at least try and have one more.

Usually, when CA introduces a race, they make a legendary lord that represents and buffs some basic part of the roster and later, through DLCs, they add more unique and specialized lords and units. Not so with Wood Elves – they have a demigod cavalry lord, sisters air force lord, treeman lord and tree spirits infantry lord. But where’s the lord that represents the basic elven infantry units or a pure caster LL? Also, with slim pickings for models that are left from TT and lore for WEs, this would be one of those DLCs that should focus a lot on bringing more characters and their mechanics to the game.

Enter Araloth the Bold. Some like this guy some hate him saying that he’s just a generic glade lord with a name. Whatever the opinions are, I’d like him to represent wood elf infantry. He has a hawk companion called Skarn the Eye Thief that could be implemented as ability or even as part of Araloth’s faction mechanic. There’s lot of potential for Araloth’s mechanic – the hawk, he is known as a personal champion of Ariel and also a consort of Lilaeth and any of these things have a big potential to be translated into a LL mechanic. Either as a champion of Ariel or consort of Lilaeth, he has an excuse to be sent somewhere far away on the world map (to a faraway tree) on a mission. Alternative to him would be Prince Oreon – the pros that he has going for him is that there’s a tree on the map already named Oreon’s Camp and he could better represent the archery part of the infantry roster, but Sisters of Twillight have that kinda cornered and cons would be that his lore is ancient and even more bland than Araloth’s and also, Oreon, Orion – people would be confused.

1. The Hooked Blade DLC

• Legendary Lord: Araloth of the Hooked Blade (or Araloth the Bold), mount: horse, great stag, meadow chariot.
  A melee expert lord with fast attacks. Buffs Wood Elven infantry and has a couple of his own, unique units, similar to Eltharion the Grim which are Talsyn Hawks (melee experts) and Ashenhawks (damage dealing hybrid melee and range unit).
  
• Generic Lord: Highborn, mount: horse, great stag, meadow chariot.
  Highborn is another name (from 6th ed) for Glade Lord, but since we’re missing a generic LL option, let’s go with it. They are a greatsword wielding, anti-infantry lords.
  
• Generic Hero: Shadowdancer, mount: none
  Has all the dances and several bound lore of shadows spells
  
• Units: Eternal Wardens, Kithband Warriors, Meadow Chariots, Falconers (aoe infantry), Alters (precursor skirmisher infantry that can shapeshift into bears). RORs: I'll leave that to CA.

- note: There’s been lots of discussions should Wood Elves have Meadow Chariots or not, the answer is of course they should, all elven races should at least have one chariot option. Meadow Chariots should be skirmish chariots with ranged attacks.

FLC

• Legendary Lord: Naieth the Prophetess, mounts: horse, unicorn, great stag, great eagle
  Buffs Spellweavers and spellsingers
  
• Unit: Scarloc's Archers
  Her unique, campaign only unit with magic arrows that she guides with her magic.

- note: Naieth is already in the game as a quest giver which would mean that CA doesn’t mean to implement her. But I’d really like her to be a dedicated elven spellcaster LL for Wood Elves, which they are missing.

Legendary Heroes:

• Orion - Ariel, already in the game
  
• Drycha - Coeddil, already in the game
  
• Durthu - Amadri Ironbark, mount: none, treekin LH, hates demons and chaos
  
• Sisters of Twilight: Thalandor Doomstar, mount: Gwandor the Black, great eagle
  
• Araloth: Wychwethyl, mount: none, exceptionally skilled wardancer
  
• Naieth: Scarloc, mount: none, exceptionally skilled archer and scout

- note: Obviously, not all of these Legendary Heroes are going to be added by CA, so pick your favorite ones and the rest I hope will be added by modders.

That's it for Wood Elves. Like I’ve said, currently ingame Wood Elves are done and most likely won’t get more DLC, but I’d pay for something like this as this would round up their race nicely.

Maedrethnir#1968

I like the idea, but it is missing a certain unit that is very close to my heart.

Spites. I want Spites. Give me Spites. Small Spites. Big Spites. There are myriads of ways to make them playable, 6ED WE AB is full of art depictions of different forms Spites can take.




I want faeries!

Cebo#5715

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

mecanojavi99#6562

Honestly, as long as we get Naieth for a pure caster LL for the WE, I'm happy, although Scarloc is certainly not on my most wanted list, I would prefer Amadri Ironbark.

MODIDDLY1#9212

Not too bad, but way too many legendary heroes.

Cebo#5715

MODIDDLY1#9212 said:

Not too bad, but way too many legendary heroes.

Yeah, that's what I'd like to see in the game either officially by CA or, at least, by the modding community. Pick one or two that you like most and that's it.

mecanojavi99#6562 said:

Honestly, as long as we get Naieth for a pure caster LL for the WE, I'm happy, although Scarloc is certainly not on my most wanted list, I would prefer Amadri Ironbark.

They tied Naieth in the lore with Scarloc through his archers, that's why I added him.

SaintCorn#3148

mecanojavi99#6562 said:

Honestly, as long as we get Naieth for a pure caster LL for the WE, I'm happy, although Scarloc is certainly not on my most wanted list, I would prefer Amadri Ironbark.

Please promote Amadri Ironbark from leading a random rouge army CA.

And for such an Elf focused pack and considering that Araloth is pretty meh.

I would rather get the more obscure Sceolan of the Hooked Blade.

Sceolan basically has everything that Araloth has minus the Hawk, so we're not really missing out on anything.

He would make sense leading a mostly Elf Centric pack because, his realm is basically always defended by just elves.
Furthermore, since Atylwyth is in eternal winter, you can put him into the far north fighting against Chaos in the snow which would be more fitting for Game 3.
Making him start outside of a magical forest as a semi-horde could also give a unique playstyle where you either embrace the semihorde style and keep Norsca and the North or rush down a magic forest and settle down.
Not only that his color scheme would be a solid pale blue which would be a major difference from the other Wood Elves.

Cebo#5715

GW made Araloth in 8th ed as an amalgamation of various older WE characters, like Sceolan. It's not a coincidence that both had the title "of the Hooked Blade".

SaintCorn#3148

Cebo#5715 said:

GW made Araloth in 8th ed as an amalgamation of various older WE characters, like Sceolan. It's not a coincidence that both had the title "of the Hooked Blade".

Sceolan was in 8th edition. And Araloth was an amalgam of older characters, but not really Sceolan since he is still there in eighth edition.

He is more of an amalgam of Scarloc, from fourth edition, Skaw, from fourth edition, and Lothlann "the Brave" from fourth edition.

dodge33cymru#1936

For the record, I don't think WE needs a proper DLC but I would love to see at least one character that is something close to a normal elf, so I'm onboard with your suggestions.

Erathil#3988

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Cebo#5715

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

Maedrethnir#1968

Cebo#5715 said:

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

Trust in Spites!

Erathil#3988 said:

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Eh, Maedrethnir, what a dreamy fellow he is!

Speaking about Araloth, he's an ordinary Elf, something Wood Elves are lacking right now. I think he could have an interesting campaign centred around Lileath of the Moon, either looking for her or being directed by her. It could be a prequel or a sequel to a potential future Bretonnian LP.


Also, the next WE update should give the Wildwood Rangers proper animations:

#152316

I will love to see Naieth in the game. But if her mount is a great eagle what happens to its companion the owl... strange combination. I think I prefer her riding another owl

Neodeinos#5871

Maedrethnir#1968 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

Trust in Spites!

Erathil#3988 said:

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Eh, Maedrethnir, what a dreamy fellow he is!

Speaking about Araloth, he's an ordinary Elf, something Wood Elves are lacking right now. I think he could have an interesting campaign centred around Lileath of the Moon, either looking for her or being directed by her. It could be a prequel or a sequel to a potential future Bretonnian LP.


Also, the next WE update should give the Wildwood Rangers proper animations:

Can't CA just lower their weapon a bit so they wield it properly ? This doesn't look like a hard fix to do that would require making new animations.

Personally I don't really care which new LL we get for the WE but I would like one that buffs the melee infantry, it's always been my favourite part of the WE roster.

Erathil#3988

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

Neodeinos#5871

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

I don't understand why people keep using the "Chariots don't work in woods" argument. Yes it doesn't but the Meadow Chariots are used in a part of Athel Loren that specifically does not have forests. They are from a place called the Meadow Glades which as the name suggests is covered in meadows. The argument that chariots don't work in woods is correct but it is entirely **** irrelevant as Wood Elves don't use those Chariots in forests.

NemoTheElf101#1472

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

1. Meadow Chariots per lore magically shift the forest out of their course. Also, there are areas in and around Athel Loren that aren't actually forest.
2. Glade Riders are a useful unit but having the same kind of lethality through a chariot that could have the potential of surviving melee can be a useful thing to have for the Wood Elves.
3. All the older models look dumb. High Elven Silverhelms don't ride on horses covered in sheets for a reason.

Extraneus#1732

I want to see Eonir

Maedrethnir#1968

Neodeinos#5871 said:

Maedrethnir#1968 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

Trust in Spites!

Erathil#3988 said:

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Eh, Maedrethnir, what a dreamy fellow he is!

Speaking about Araloth, he's an ordinary Elf, something Wood Elves are lacking right now. I think he could have an interesting campaign centred around Lileath of the Moon, either looking for her or being directed by her. It could be a prequel or a sequel to a potential future Bretonnian LP.


Also, the next WE update should give the Wildwood Rangers proper animations:

Can't CA just lower their weapon a bit so they wield it properly ? This doesn't look like a hard fix to do that would require making new animations.

Personally I don't really care which new LL we get for the WE but I would like one that buffs the melee infantry, it's always been my favourite part of the WE roster.

Hm. Hmm. Hmmm. They would need to adjust the angle they hold their glaives, and even then the weapons wouldn't look good in combat because the unit is reusing Greatswords animations. Maybe if CA switched animations for White Lions' axes, then it could serve as a budget alternative to true glaive combat. Still, I want to see proper glaive motions, agile slashes and stabs befitting of the Elves.

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

NemoTheElf101#1472 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

1. Meadow Chariots per lore magically shift the forest out of their course. Also, there are areas in and around Athel Loren that aren't actually forest.
2. Glade Riders are a useful unit but having the same kind of lethality through a chariot that could have the potential of surviving melee can be a useful thing to have for the Wood Elves.
3. All the older models look dumb. High Elven Silverhelms don't ride on horses covered in sheets for a reason.

True. Ithiltaen, the Luigi Mansion edition show how much a design can be improved upon.

sykall#1105

So I have read that Amadri Ironbark is a unique treekin. An elven prince slain and resurrected as a forest spirit (Tree kin) who apperently still rules their part of the forest.

Honestly I think this is an intrueging concept for a legendary Lord.

If the trend of 1 Wood Elf paired with one Forest Spirit continues (Orion/Durthu, SoT/Drycha) then I would lile to see Amadri as the forest spirit counterpart to Araloth and/or Naith. I dunno why, but it sounds intrueging to me

Erathil#3988

NemoTheElf101#1472 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

1. Meadow Chariots per lore magically shift the forest out of their course. Also, there are areas in and around Athel Loren that aren't actually forest.
2. Glade Riders are a useful unit but having the same kind of lethality through a chariot that could have the potential of surviving melee can be a useful thing to have for the Wood Elves.
3. All the older models look dumb. High Elven Silverhelms don't ride on horses covered in sheets for a reason.

1) That... okay, I'd never heard that lore before, but having heard it, it makes even more sense that this unit was dropped from the roster. The quintessential aspect of wood elf magic was Tree Singing, so much so that it was the only spell carried forward from the Lore of Athel Loren when it was quietly dropped in 8th edition. The ability to alter the terrain was one of their biggest tactical strengths and something that made their magic unique... and they just tossed that onto chariots so the wheels wouldn't get gunked up by roots or the carriage get caught between trees?

2) Here we're getting into faction design. A good faction is defined just as much by what it does not have as by what it does, and wood elves are all about fast, light cavalry. Even their elites hold to this; Great Stag Knights have terrible armor but amazing speed and charge, and Sisters of Thorn are one of the only high tier missile cavalry in the game. Tankiness is contrary to the wood elf design, feel, and military doctrine.

3) Okay, I'll give you this one. Holy hell do the old Silver Helms look terrible.

4) RE; Cavaroc: One tenth of Athel Loren can be described as 'not densely forested'. It's still a hodgepoge of meadows and woodland, which isn't ideal for chariots. More tellingly, it's also the center of the wood elves' horse-riding tradition. And they specifically breed and train these horses to perform well in forested environments, because that's where they fight more often than not. Generally, if you have a good horse-riding tradition, you don't also have a charioteer tradition, because one of those is much better than the other.

Cebo#5715

Erathil#3988 said:

1) That... okay, I'd never heard that lore before, but having heard it, it makes even more sense that this unit was dropped from the roster. The quintessential aspect of wood elf magic was Tree Singing, so much so that it was the only spell carried forward from the Lore of Athel Loren when it was quietly dropped in 8th edition. The ability to alter the terrain was one of their biggest tactical strengths and something that made their magic unique... and they just tossed that onto chariots so the wheels wouldn't get gunked up by roots or the carriage get caught between trees?

2) Here we're getting into faction design. A good faction is defined just as much by what it does not have as by what it does, and wood elves are all about fast, light cavalry. Even their elites hold to this; Great Stag Knights have terrible armor but amazing speed and charge, and Sisters of Thorn are one of the only high tier missile cavalry in the game. Tankiness is contrary to the wood elf design, feel, and military doctrine.

3) Okay, I'll give you this one. Holy hell do the old Silver Helms look terrible.

4) RE; Cavaroc: One tenth of Athel Loren can be described as 'not densely forested'. It's still a hodgepoge of meadows and woodland, which isn't ideal for chariots. More tellingly, it's also the center of the wood elves' horse-riding tradition. And they specifically breed and train these horses to perform well in forested environments, because that's where they fight more often than not. Generally, if you have a good horse-riding tradition, you don't also have a charioteer tradition, because one of those is much better than the other.

I'm not sure why is it that some people say that at meadow chariots they draw the line between realism and fantasy. And realism is the rabbit hole you precisely don't want to go down, because you know who else can't fight in the woods? Cavalry

Horses would break their legs charging through woods and branches would dismount the riders.

So if you want to take meadow chariots from them because its unrealistic (btw, they're called meadow for a reason), then you have to take away the cavalry too.

Erathil#3988

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

1) That... okay, I'd never heard that lore before, but having heard it, it makes even more sense that this unit was dropped from the roster. The quintessential aspect of wood elf magic was Tree Singing, so much so that it was the only spell carried forward from the Lore of Athel Loren when it was quietly dropped in 8th edition. The ability to alter the terrain was one of their biggest tactical strengths and something that made their magic unique... and they just tossed that onto chariots so the wheels wouldn't get gunked up by roots or the carriage get caught between trees?

2) Here we're getting into faction design. A good faction is defined just as much by what it does not have as by what it does, and wood elves are all about fast, light cavalry. Even their elites hold to this; Great Stag Knights have terrible armor but amazing speed and charge, and Sisters of Thorn are one of the only high tier missile cavalry in the game. Tankiness is contrary to the wood elf design, feel, and military doctrine.

3) Okay, I'll give you this one. Holy hell do the old Silver Helms look terrible.

4) RE; Cavaroc: One tenth of Athel Loren can be described as 'not densely forested'. It's still a hodgepoge of meadows and woodland, which isn't ideal for chariots. More tellingly, it's also the center of the wood elves' horse-riding tradition. And they specifically breed and train these horses to perform well in forested environments, because that's where they fight more often than not. Generally, if you have a good horse-riding tradition, you don't also have a charioteer tradition, because one of those is much better than the other.

I'm not sure why is it that some people say that at meadow chariots they draw the line between realism and fantasy. And realism is the rabbit hole you precisely don't want to go down, because you know who else can't fight in the woods? Cavalry

Horses would break their legs charging through woods and branches would dismount the riders.

So if you want to take meadow chariots from them because its unrealistic (btw, they're called meadow for a reason), then you have to take away the cavalry too.

It's all relative.

Most people on this forum like Warhammer Fantasy, which is of course fantastic and over the top, but hate Age of Sigmar, which is also fantastic and over the top, but notably more-so.

Meadow Chariots hit that inflection point for me. Forest elves selectively breeding horses to do better in forests over thousands of years so they can have cool fast skirmish cavalry is good for me. Forest elves parking hundreds of empty chariots on their southern border so they can roll them out to fight in the clearings where their horses and enchanted stags would out-perform them...

Yeah. Meadow Chariots just strike me as so incredibly dumb, and they don't have any of the redeeming characteristics that can make other weird, fantastical, or kind of dumb things work in this setting.

Lord_Zarkov#7252

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

1) That... okay, I'd never heard that lore before, but having heard it, it makes even more sense that this unit was dropped from the roster. The quintessential aspect of wood elf magic was Tree Singing, so much so that it was the only spell carried forward from the Lore of Athel Loren when it was quietly dropped in 8th edition. The ability to alter the terrain was one of their biggest tactical strengths and something that made their magic unique... and they just tossed that onto chariots so the wheels wouldn't get gunked up by roots or the carriage get caught between trees?

2) Here we're getting into faction design. A good faction is defined just as much by what it does not have as by what it does, and wood elves are all about fast, light cavalry. Even their elites hold to this; Great Stag Knights have terrible armor but amazing speed and charge, and Sisters of Thorn are one of the only high tier missile cavalry in the game. Tankiness is contrary to the wood elf design, feel, and military doctrine.

3) Okay, I'll give you this one. Holy hell do the old Silver Helms look terrible.

4) RE; Cavaroc: One tenth of Athel Loren can be described as 'not densely forested'. It's still a hodgepoge of meadows and woodland, which isn't ideal for chariots. More tellingly, it's also the center of the wood elves' horse-riding tradition. And they specifically breed and train these horses to perform well in forested environments, because that's where they fight more often than not. Generally, if you have a good horse-riding tradition, you don't also have a charioteer tradition, because one of those is much better than the other.

I'm not sure why is it that some people say that at meadow chariots they draw the line between realism and fantasy. And realism is the rabbit hole you precisely don't want to go down, because you know who else can't fight in the woods? Cavalry

Horses would break their legs charging through woods and branches would dismount the riders.

So if you want to take meadow chariots from them because its unrealistic (btw, they're called meadow for a reason), then you have to take away the cavalry too.

It's all relative.

Most people on this forum like Warhammer Fantasy, which is of course fantastic and over the top, but hate Age of Sigmar, which is also fantastic and over the top, but notably more-so.

Meadow Chariots hit that inflection point for me. Forest elves selectively breeding horses to do better in forests over thousands of years so they can have cool fast skirmish cavalry is good for me. Forest elves parking hundreds of empty chariots on their southern border so they can roll them out to fight in the clearings where their horses and enchanted stags would out-perform them...

Yeah. Meadow Chariots just strike me as so incredibly dumb, and they don't have any of the redeeming characteristics that can make other weird, fantastical, or kind of dumb things work in this setting.

Indeed.

Also, deer manage fine in woodland. Wood Elves don’t ride normal horses they ride a mix of deer and ‘Elven Steeds’ which are substantially different from normal horses and are basically to normal horses what elves are to humans (stat wise extra movement, leadership and initiative, lore wise smarter, more agile and with pointy ears).

Perfectly reasonable for another non-horse creature to be adapted for forests, particularly given they were probably genetically engineered by the Old Ones for just that purpose.

Cebo#5715

I'll take a chariot elven lord mowing through a horde in the meadow, by the wood, instead of a deer humping a horse to produce a forest navigating creature.

SeanJeanquoi#3490

Neodeinos#5871 said:

Maedrethnir#1968 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

Trust in Spites!

Erathil#3988 said:

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Eh, Maedrethnir, what a dreamy fellow he is!

Speaking about Araloth, he's an ordinary Elf, something Wood Elves are lacking right now. I think he could have an interesting campaign centred around Lileath of the Moon, either looking for her or being directed by her. It could be a prequel or a sequel to a potential future Bretonnian LP.


Also, the next WE update should give the Wildwood Rangers proper animations:

Can't CA just lower their weapon a bit so they wield it properly ? This doesn't look like a hard fix to do that would require making new animations.

Personally I don't really care which new LL we get for the WE but I would like one that buffs the melee infantry, it's always been my favourite part of the WE roster.

There's a mod that replaces the Wildwood Rangers animations with the Axe animations of the White Lions of Chrace instead of the Empire Greatswords animations they have now and it works perfectly.

Obviously, new unique animations would be ideal, but there's a very easy fix staring them right in the face that modders have already implemented.

MODIDDLY1#9212

A while back I had put a 4 pack of every game 1 race. For Wood Elves I had
Naith-Caster WE lord
Araloth- The "Standard" WE lord
Amadri Ironbark- Treekin lord with a Slaanesh rivalry
finally, choice between these two
Wychwethyl- Wardancer melee focused lord
Gruarth- Beastmaster focused melee lord

of some of the units added, I would have the Shadowdancer be added, but as a generic lord instead of hero (WE already have the Glade captain that seemed to blend some of the Shadowdancer into her, plus they have 4 heroes, and this would give them a melee focused lord with either lore of shadows or bound shadow spells)

Maedrethnir#1968

Erathil#3988 said:

NemoTheElf101#1472 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Erathil#3988 said:

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

Why?

There are a few reasons.

• Chariots in woodlands just don't make sense. Like, they physically could not function in densely wooded environments with uneven terrain riven by roots. These things don't have suspension. There's no reason to use a chariot if you're fighting in a forest, and little reason for forest dwellers to ever make chariots in the first place.
  
• It doesn't serve any tactical purpose in a Wood Elf army. They already have fast shock cavalry. They already have skirmish cavalry. They already have missile cavalry. Everything you'd want a chariot for is already done by a more sensible unit.
  
• The old Meadow Chariot model just looks really dumb.
  

1. Meadow Chariots per lore magically shift the forest out of their course. Also, there are areas in and around Athel Loren that aren't actually forest.
2. Glade Riders are a useful unit but having the same kind of lethality through a chariot that could have the potential of surviving melee can be a useful thing to have for the Wood Elves.
3. All the older models look dumb. High Elven Silverhelms don't ride on horses covered in sheets for a reason.

1) That... okay, I'd never heard that lore before, but having heard it, it makes even more sense that this unit was dropped from the roster. The quintessential aspect of wood elf magic was Tree Singing, so much so that it was the only spell carried forward from the Lore of Athel Loren when it was quietly dropped in 8th edition. The ability to alter the terrain was one of their biggest tactical strengths and something that made their magic unique... and they just tossed that onto chariots so the wheels wouldn't get gunked up by roots or the carriage get caught between trees?

2) Here we're getting into faction design. A good faction is defined just as much by what it does not have as by what it does, and wood elves are all about fast, light cavalry. Even their elites hold to this; Great Stag Knights have terrible armor but amazing speed and charge, and Sisters of Thorn are one of the only high tier missile cavalry in the game. Tankiness is contrary to the wood elf design, feel, and military doctrine.

3) Okay, I'll give you this one. Holy hell do the old Silver Helms look terrible.

4) RE; Cavaroc: One tenth of Athel Loren can be described as 'not densely forested'. It's still a hodgepoge of meadows and woodland, which isn't ideal for chariots. More tellingly, it's also the center of the wood elves' horse-riding tradition. And they specifically breed and train these horses to perform well in forested environments, because that's where they fight more often than not. Generally, if you have a good horse-riding tradition, you don't also have a charioteer tradition, because one of those is much better than the other.

Chrace is a mountainous region, full of hills and forests, but it doesn't stop Chracians from getting their chariots pulled by lions. There is also Tiranoc with its charioteer tradition. Elves do what Elves do.

SeanJeanquoi#3490 said:

Neodeinos#5871 said:

Maedrethnir#1968 said:

Cebo#5715 said:

Yeah, they're cool. I haven't added them cause CA kinda implemented them as traits/passive abilities.

Trust in Spites!

Erathil#3988 said:

I really want more Wood Elf DLC. They're my favorite race.

But... I kind of hate almost everything in the OP?

I'd love to see Naieth the Prophetess as a Legendary Lord. At best, she'll be a FLC lord. But I'm not holding my breath. Araloth of Talsyn is, by far, the most likely candidate... but he's like the baked potato of Wood Elf characters; there, starchy, and bland.

Meadow Chariots were, are, and will continue to be a terrible idea. They should never be implemented.

If we ever get more Wood Elf units... Maedrethir has the right idea. Spites would be a great option, small magical swarms with support auras and active, triggered abilities would be a good addition to the Wood Elf line up. You could also add some forest spirit variants, like a Treeman with the ranged Strangleroot attack.

I'd like to see a variant or upgrade of the Waywatcher, just so they can keep up with the newer archers that are vying for the title of best in the world.

An advantage of adding Naieth would be taking a pass at the old Lore of Athel Loren spell list.

Eh, Maedrethnir, what a dreamy fellow he is!

Speaking about Araloth, he's an ordinary Elf, something Wood Elves are lacking right now. I think he could have an interesting campaign centred around Lileath of the Moon, either looking for her or being directed by her. It could be a prequel or a sequel to a potential future Bretonnian LP.


Also, the next WE update should give the Wildwood Rangers proper animations:

Can't CA just lower their weapon a bit so they wield it properly ? This doesn't look like a hard fix to do that would require making new animations.

Personally I don't really care which new LL we get for the WE but I would like one that buffs the melee infantry, it's always been my favourite part of the WE roster.

There's a mod that replaces the Wildwood Rangers animations with the Axe animations of the White Lions of Chrace instead of the Empire Greatswords animations they have now and it works perfectly.

Obviously, new unique animations would be ideal, but there's a very easy fix staring them right in the face that modders have already implemented.

The angle is definitely better, but they still hold their glaives in the wrong spot, in fact, they hold them where it shouldn't be even possible to wrap a hand around. CA would need to adjust the animations for better grip placement.

Cebo#5715

Maedrethnir#1968 said:

Chrace is a mountainous region, full of hills and forests, but it doesn't stop Chracians from getting their chariots pulled by lions. There is also Tiranoc with its charioteer tradition. Elves do what Elves do.

And Naggaroth has lots of forests too any yet, lots of chariots. The Empire is quite wooded also, yet Grom The Paunch made a path of destruction through it with chariots and pump wagons.

A_Nobody#8442

The wood elves often support Bretonnia or "defend their borders" offensively in the area of the human nations.
I've never understood why they shouldn't have chariots for situations like this.

Otherwise I would say a solid list, nothing that would make me die of joy, but nothing that I would say no to either.
(I don't have a better idea anyway.)