My Hopes for Aranessa Saltspite and a New Vampire Coast Legendary Lord

erhartm91#4908

If/when the Dogs of War are added to the game, Aranessa Saltspite should be made into a Dogs of War legendary lord instead of a Vampire Coast one. I know that she wasn’t part of the Dogs of War, but I think that makes more sense than having her be part of the Vampire Coast; she’s not a vampire or even undead. She should be the pirate queen of the Old World, so in addition to the Dogs of War roster, I think that the Pirates of Sartosa faction should also keep access to her Sartosan units, the ogre maneaters, and even the Vampire Coast roster (at least a limited roster, but preferably the full one). As the pirate queen, pirates and mercenaries should be flocking to her for an opportunity for their share of the treasure, living or dead. However, any Pirates of Sartosa army must have either a Vampire Fleet Admiral lord or a Vampire Fleet Captain hero (the only Vampire Coast lord and hero they should have) in it before it can recruit Vampire Coast units into it. This is similar how for the Warriors of Chaos, there really needs to be a lord or hero of the same Chaos God for there to be those monogod units in the army.

If CA actually does this, then they should also have a new Vampire Coast legendary lord to replace Aranessa Saltspite. If they can make up one new legendary lord for the Vampire Coast (Cylostra Direfin), then they can make up another new one. I have an idea for that.

A new Vampire Coast legendary lord would have a great start in Grand Cathay. There are many ports there just waiting to have Pirate Coves established in them.

CA could take inspiration from the real-life Chinese pirate queen from the early 19th century, Zheng Yi Sao, to make a new Vampire Coast legendary lord who is a jade-blooded vampire.

I have a backstory for her (feel free to use or modify it, CA!): Warhammer Zheng Yi Sao (whatever they decide to call her) in life was a beautiful noblewoman and the wife of a wealthy Cathayan noble who owned a large fleet of merchant ships which she helped run. They were both beloved by the crews of the merchant ships because they were paid and fed very well and treated kindly by them. But there were other people who hated them: Other Cathayan nobles who were their competitors in the Cathayan merchant shipping industry. These other nobles hired assassins to murder her and her husband. She barely managed to escape with her life, but her husband was not so lucky and was killed. Having inherited her husband’s merchant fleet, she swore revenge, swearing that she would kill all of the nobles behind her husband’s murder. She and her loyal crews converted their merchant ships for piracy and attacked and captured the ships of her husband’s rivals, as well as capturing and killing the rival nobles when they could. They eventually amassed a large pirate fleet and became a serious thorn in the side of Grand Cathay’s sea trade. The Grand Cathayan imperial authorities declared her and her pirates to be outlaws and sent squadrons from the Jade Fleet to destroy them. While she had many ships under her command, they were no match for the Jade Fleet. Engagement after engagement, her once impressive fleet was reduced to just a handful of ships. In the last battle, she was gravely wounded. She and her remaining fleet occupied a small port and brought her ashore for help. Despite everyones’ best efforts, her wounds couldn’t be healed; she was going to die. Having heard of her plight and her beauty, a jade-blooded vampire came to her one night and made her an offer: He could save her from death if she would be his bride as a vampire. Out of desperation, she agreed, and the vampire gave her the blood kiss, transforming her into a vampire. However, she had no intention of being the jade-blooded vampire’s bride, so she slew him as soon as she had the opportunity. She and her remaining crews went to the sites of the previous battles and raised the fallen pirates and Jade Fleet sailors from the depths, who she then used to raise her pirate and the Jade Fleet sunken ships and repaired them. Now she has a massive fleet crewed by mostly undead pirates and sailors led by herself and other jade-blooded vampires who were drawn by her success, hoping for their share of the plunder. She is now dead-set on not only eliminating the surviving nobles, but destroying the Jade Fleet and bringing Grand Cathay to its knees.

This can either be part of a DLC or FLC, as I don’t know what other units could be brought in for Vampire Coast. Some living Cathayan pirates just for her faction maybe, like Aranessa Saltspite’s living Sartosan units. She can either lead the Dead Flag Fleet, a current minor Vampire Coast faction already in the game, or lead a new faction. Either way, she should start on the coast of Grand Cathay somewhere south of where Lokhir Fellheart currently starts. She can have some campaign mechanics or missions where she has to sack or raze particular port cities where these rival nobles are centered and also have to fight off the Jade Fleet which comes to attack her from the sea every once in a while. When her armies are sailing at sea, the ships used to represent them on the map should look like tattered Grand Cathay ships rather than regular Vampire Coast ships.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

No thanks.

DoW have loads of good characters to add and don't need a rando LL from VC2. Besides I paid for VC2 in part because of Aranessa. I do not want her moved.

WhySoSalty#3990

yeah i im pretty sure they will not remove a LL from a paid LP. People will cry rivers that this is not what they paid for and that they specifically bought this DLC to play Aranessa. The usuall complaining for the sake of complaining. A big rework for her is the best we can hope for but she will be a Vampirate for ever now. I still dont know why they left out Vangheist who would be a perfect 4th LL.

Djau#5149

You don't need to be Undead or a Vampire to work with Undead Pirates. That's what the Vampire Coast represent.

Neodeinos#5871

If CA couldn't even move Siggy to Slaanesh they ain't moving Aranessa to another race.

Chula#1426

They won't move her sadly.

We all wish it but the complainers always win even if they never play the character or it doesn't effect them.

DrJammat#8325

Yes, to a new Vampire Coast legendary lord, a Cathayan Vampire has been suggested before and it's a good idea.

No to moving Aranessa, CA should concentrate on new content.

If DOW do come, then Aranessa should get access to some of their units and become more of a hybrid faction, but I am beginning to fear they will not come.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Chula#1426 said:

They won't move her sadly.

We all wish it but the complainers always win even if they never play the character or it doesn't effect them.

We? I certainly do not wish it.

Indeed the ones complaining are the ones who want her moved. I don't know how you could view it otherwise.

Walkabout#1505

Yea I am happy with Nanu's Sartosa mod. It makes the Little Mermaid perfect.

unomanderus#7528

The new lord will be in Cathay where all those Vampirates are and she will be a spooky undead Cathayan based on that bandit chick from TW3K. There you go. Naaima will also be the Vampire Counts lord for the Nongchang Vampires when the Jiangshi rebels get a real lord.

unomanderus#7528

Also
"should be made into"
Sigvald wasn't moved because moving paid content is a big no no unless you want to be like paradox and really kill your fanbase. And in a game where they can just copy+paste spearmen, gunmen and cannons into aranessa's recruitable pirate army there is no need to. It's like making Nagash a Vampire Count lord and then wanting Arkhan to be one too, there's no reason just give him a special button to recruit Arkhan and Wallah it works out.

Pocman#6295

Djau#5149 said:

You don't need to be Undead or a Vampire to work with Undead Pirates. That's what the Vampire Coast represent.

Except every other unit in their roster is very much dead.

Aranessa was not a VC character in lore, nor even midly related to them. In fact, she was their enemy.

Heretical_Cactus#7598

That is if DoW even happen

Djau#5149

Why do people keep suggesting a Cathayan Undead character for Vampire Coast? they have nothing in common. Vampire Coast is based off more Western Pirates.

Pocman#6295 said:

Djau#5149 said:

You don't need to be Undead or a Vampire to work with Undead Pirates. That's what the Vampire Coast represent.

Except every other unit in their roster is very much dead.

Aranessa was not a VC character in lore, nor even midly related to them. In fact, she was their enemy.

That doesn't discount what I said. She's working with Undead, not that she has to be Undead. There is some history of that in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

DarthEnderX-#6513

erhartm91#4908 said:

If/when the Dogs of War are added to the game, Aranessa Saltspite should be made into a Dogs of War legendary lord instead of a Vampire Coast one.

100% yes.

erhartm91#4908 said:

CA could take inspiration from the real-life Chinese pirate queen from the early 19th century, Zheng Yi Sao, to make a new Vampire Coast legendary lord who is a jade-blooded vampire.

Also 100% yes. And also, they already did.

The VCoast minor faction Dead Flag Fleet, and it's leader, Zheng Shih, is clearly based on Zheng Yi Sao and her Red Flag Fleet. CA just needs to promote them from minor faction to playable faction.

Djau#5149 said:

You don't need to be Undead or a Vampire to work with Undead Pirates.

No, but you should probably be someone who's arch nemesis isn't undead pirates.

You want a non-Undead VCount LL? Add a fishman.

Neodeinos#5871 said:

If CA couldn't even move Siggy to Slaanesh they ain't moving Aranessa to another race.

COULDN'T move him? Or just decided not to?

Because being unable to move him to Slaanesh, because they couldn't for some reason, doesn't explain why they would then quadruple down on that decision and add 4 additional monogod characters to WoC when they didn't have to.

Djau#5149 said:

Why do people keep suggesting a Cathayan Undead character for Vampire Coast? they have nothing in common. Vampire Coast is based off more Western Pirates.

VCoast is mostly based off Pirates of the Caribbean. And PotC had plenty of Eastern pirates.

Djau#5149 said:

That doesn't discount what I said. She's working with Undead, not that she has to be Undead.

But she doesn't WORK with Undead either.

This isn't an Arkhan situation, where all the other TKs hate Arkhan, but Arkhan still uses the same armies as the other TKs. Aranessa doesn't use VCoast armies. She's a living pirate, who leads other living pirates, most famously, against undead pirates.

Aranessa in VCoast is like having a High Elf LL for the Dark Elves.

Wood_Sprite#1284

I think it's fine for her to remain in VC, since she's a pirate and VC are based around this concept.

What I would like to see is her getting more units like the Maneaters if/when DoW come as a race. That would make her good for me.

erhartm91#4908

Wood_Sprite#1284 said:

I think it's fine for her to remain in VC, since she's a pirate and VC are based around this concept.

What I would like to see is her getting more units like the Maneaters if/when DoW come as a race. That would make her good for me.

If/when DoW come, she had better get the Slayer Pirates, at least.

Chula#1426

unomanderus#7528 said:

Also
"should be made into"
Sigvald wasn't moved because moving paid content is a big no no unless you want to be like paradox and really kill your fanbase. And in a game where they can just copy+paste spearmen, gunmen and cannons into aranessa's recruitable pirate army there is no need to. It's like making Nagash a Vampire Count lord and then wanting Arkhan to be one too, there's no reason just give him a special button to recruit Arkhan and Wallah it works out.

Kill what fanbase exactly?

How many people are so diehard for Sigvald being in WoC that they would quit the game? Because I doubt anyone would.

The solution for moving him was simple, replace him with a new LL for WoC and make Siggy a Free LL that's for Slaneesh. Nobody would have lost their DLC, he just would be updated and where he should be.

Yet for some reason this forum is chuck full of contrarians who demand things never be touched or changed.

Nyxilis#3646

There are people foe the Vcoast, one is an undead rat. Could have a RoR that is zombie rats~

TheWattman#7460

My wishlist for Aranessa:

1. Remove from VC and make a living pirate race, i.e. the Grand Alliance, with Jaego Roth, Red Brokk and Yrellian - Not happening sadly
2. Move to Southern Realms - Also not happening

3. Make her Untainted instead of Vampire corruption
4. Remove all Undead lord AND hero options from her roster
5. Implement living versions of pirate lords and heroes
6. Compensate the loss of spellcasters with Priests of Manann/Stromfels
7. Expand the living unit rosters with basic humans, dwarf slayer pirates, orc mercenaries and maybe a unit or two of Sea Elves or Orc pirates.
8. Make Sartosa friendly with other mortal nations and adverserial with especially Count Noctilus.

#153592

Putting Aranessa at the Vampire Coast was a huge mistake...

Because she is not supposed to be a vampire, nor even to command the dead, she is supposed to be the Queen of the Pirates and to command the living of all types... Exactly like the Dogs of War...

Now that it's done it's too late, unfortunately we can't go back... so the solution lies rather in finding how to fix the situation.

Personally I hope that later we will have the Dogs of War faction (or Southern Realm) which will appear in Total War Warhammer 3, and from that moment on, we can consider reworking Aranessa to give her some of the roster and mechanics of this faction while staying with the Vampire Coast (because people who have purchased the Vampire Coast DLC cannot end up with 1 less Legendary Lord overnight), with for example only the possibility of recruiting undead units no longer by buildings but only via the resurrection mechanics. Thus it would remain in the pirate theme and with some conditionally recruitable undead units, but it would have mechanics and a living roster for the most part, which would be more consistent with her lore while offering it an original and different gameplay other LLs of the Vampire Coast faction

In term of additional content, I would really like to see the new playable faction on the shores of Cathay arrive, it would be an interesting theme and starting position. But not necessarily with a link with the Jade Vampires Bloodline (which could go, but I would see them more integrated into the Cathay roster, see a faction of Cathay but antagonistic, we will see, everything is possible since it's brand new ), and if not we could see the missing members of the Dreedfleet arrive (Vangheist, Scretch Half-Dead, Amanhotep the Intolerant Tordrek Hackhart) see also the members of the Grand Alliance (given that Aranessa is in Vampire Coast faction, why not the others? with Jaego Roth, the Red Brokk, Prince Yrellian and the Golden Magus)

So there are a lot of cool possibility, I hope the best for this faction, and for the future of this amazing game, event if there are so misstake sometimes unfortunatly, everything can be fixed with a minimum of work and smart if we want to !

Sultschiem#8734

They can't move her, only make her also available for them.

She is advertised for the vampire coast dlc, removing something from an old dlc and adding it to a new never went over well with people, thus its not done and in some countries that can lead to lawsuits too.

That is why at best she could be ALSO available there, but not removed from Vampire Coast DLC.

Its the same reason they could not move Sigvald or Boris Todbringer/The Red Duke...because they are part of other DLC.
But they can make them available as well for other dlc. e.g. if an Ulric faction happens, you could make Boris an unlockable for that faction.

E.g. same way that the Wood Elf DLC unlocks Woodelves, but not the lords/starts from the other DLC.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Aranessa is my favourite VC2 character.

DarthEnderX-#6513

Nyxilis#3646 said:

There are people foe the Vcoast, one is an undead rat. Could have a RoR that is zombie rats~

Skretch Half-Dead would make a perfect VCoast LH.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

DarthEnderX-#6513 said:

Nyxilis#3646 said:

There are people foe the Vcoast, one is an undead rat. Could have a RoR that is zombie rats~

Skretch Half-Dead would make a perfect VCoast LH.

Hard agree.

Dasraliah#7896

I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?

DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?

Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed

Neodeinos#5871

Dasraliah#7896 said:

I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?

DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?

Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed

Yeah I don't think her in DoW would really be an improvement. The truth is Aranessa should be her own thing entirely really, with a completely unique roster.

MODIDDLY1#9212

I think having a faction that plays significantly different from the rest of the race is good, if the race has 6 lords. WE having Drycha (Who I really enjoy) is a bit disappointing when if you want a WE experience, you are either left with the sisters, or Orion. Durthu starting in Athel Loren means that unless they move him, I'll probably never bother playing him. If I want an Athel Loren start, I go Orion, and if I want a forest spirit playstyle, I go Drycha. It wouldn't stand out at much if you also had Araloth and Naieth as starts as well.

For the Coast, I'd add Vangheist somewhere, a Jade Vampire character in Cathay, and then to fix Aranessa, make a human pirate model set to use for all the deckhand models for the Coast, cut the undead exclusive units like the bloat and animated hulks, and have her be similar to Drycha with a more unique roster.

#568367

unomanderus#7528 said:

Also
"should be made into"
Sigvald wasn't moved because moving paid content is a big no no unless you want to be like paradox and really kill your fanbase. And in a game where they can just copy+paste spearmen, gunmen and cannons into aranessa's recruitable pirate army there is no need to. It's like making Nagash a Vampire Count lord and then wanting Arkhan to be one too, there's no reason just give him a special button to recruit Arkhan and Wallah it works out.

What are you smoking? Paradox is as popular as ever

erhartm91#4908

Dasraliah#7896 said:

I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?

DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?

Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed

I guess you make a good point, but I did say that she should have access to both. Also, she is a Norscan. I would say that she has more in common with living mercenaries than undead pirates, especially with her hatred of Count Noctilus.

erhartm91#4908

Neodeinos#5871 said:

Dasraliah#7896 said:

I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?

DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?

Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed

Yeah I don't think her in DoW would really be an improvement. The truth is Aranessa should be her own thing entirely really, with a completely unique roster.

I agree that having her own unique roster and being “her own thing entirely” would be the best option, but I think there’s a better chance that they’ll add Ind, Kuresh, and Nippon than that happening.