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I think having a faction that plays significantly different from the rest of the race is good, if the race has 6 lords. WE having Drycha (Who I really enjoy) is a bit disappointing when if you want a WE experience, you are either left with the sisters, or Orion. Durthu starting in Athel Loren means that unless they move him, I'll probably never bother playing him. If I want an Athel Loren start, I go Orion, and if I want a forest spirit playstyle, I go Drycha. It wouldn't stand out at much if you also had Araloth and Naieth as starts as well.
For the Coast, I'd add Vangheist somewhere, a Jade Vampire character in Cathay, and then to fix Aranessa, make a human pirate model set to use for all the deckhand models for the Coast, cut the undead exclusive units like the bloat and animated hulks, and have her be similar to Drycha with a more unique roster.
I like that idea, too, although I think that the chances that we’ll ever have more than 6 Vampire Coast legendary lords is probably pretty slim.
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed
Because some Mercenaries are kind of pirates.
Of course not all mercenaries are pirates, but they share a lot of things in common. They want money by all the way possible, the fact of fighting for the highest bidder regardless of morality.
There are even pirate units in the Dogs of War (Long Drong Slayers for example) and Sartosa is part of the Tilea and what we call the Border Princes, so it's not illogical to share some cultural things with Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
So considering that the base of Aranessa's roster would be Sarthosa militias, it is quite possible to add some Ogre units, and Dogs of War mercenaries to her roster, and that she shares some of their mechanics, while staying at the Vampire Coast and keeping the Resurrection mechanics (so access to some Undead units but without being able to recruit them normally via buildings like the rest of the faction).
I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but that it would be possible and that it would make the character more original and interesting while being more consistent with her lore, without removing her from the Vampire Coast either, which which can't happen since it's too late... it's done, and people who bought the DLC can't end up with a disappearing character... but it can be modified/patched.
I think having a faction that plays significantly different from the rest of the race is good, if the race has 6 lords. WE having Drycha (Who I really enjoy) is a bit disappointing when if you want a WE experience, you are either left with the sisters, or Orion. Durthu starting in Athel Loren means that unless they move him, I'll probably never bother playing him. If I want an Athel Loren start, I go Orion, and if I want a forest spirit playstyle, I go Drycha. It wouldn't stand out at much if you also had Araloth and Naieth as starts as well.
For the Coast, I'd add Vangheist somewhere, a Jade Vampire character in Cathay, and then to fix Aranessa, make a human pirate model set to use for all the deckhand models for the Coast, cut the undead exclusive units like the bloat and animated hulks, and have her be similar to Drycha with a more unique roster.
I like that idea, too, although I think that the chances that we’ll ever have more than 6 Vampire Coast legendary lords is probably pretty slim.
Sadly, I think you are right, which is a shame as I'd like them all to get to at least 6 LL's eventually. I previously made a list getting them all to at least 4 generic lords and heroes, I might make another trying to get all the races to at least 6 LL's later
I think having a faction that plays significantly different from the rest of the race is good, if the race has 6 lords. WE having Drycha (Who I really enjoy) is a bit disappointing when if you want a WE experience, you are either left with the sisters, or Orion. Durthu starting in Athel Loren means that unless they move him, I'll probably never bother playing him. If I want an Athel Loren start, I go Orion, and if I want a forest spirit playstyle, I go Drycha. It wouldn't stand out at much if you also had Araloth and Naieth as starts as well.
For the Coast, I'd add Vangheist somewhere, a Jade Vampire character in Cathay, and then to fix Aranessa, make a human pirate model set to use for all the deckhand models for the Coast, cut the undead exclusive units like the bloat and animated hulks, and have her be similar to Drycha with a more unique roster.
I like that idea, too, although I think that the chances that we’ll ever have more than 6 Vampire Coast legendary lords is probably pretty slim.
Sadly, I think you are right, which is a shame as I'd like them all to get to at least 6 LL's eventually. I previously made a list getting them all to at least 4 generic lords and heroes, I might make another trying to get all the races to at least 6 LL's later
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed
I guess you make a good point, but I did say that she should have access to both. Also, she is a Norscan. I would say that she has more in common with living mercenaries than undead pirates, especially with her hatred of Count Noctilus.
She's a norscan that hates norscans. She doesn't have more in common with them than vampire pirates. She especially doesn't have more in common with Braganza's Besiegers or Menghil's Manflayers than with pirates that happens to be zombies !
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed
Because some Mercenaries are kind of pirates.
Of course not all mercenaries are pirates, but they share a lot of things in common. They want money by all the way possible, the fact of fighting for the highest bidder regardless of morality.
There are even pirate units in the Dogs of War (Long Drong Slayers for example) and Sartosa is part of the Tilea and what we call the Border Princes, so it's not illogical to share some cultural things with Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
So considering that the base of Aranessa's roster would be Sarthosa militias, it is quite possible to add some Ogre units, and Dogs of War mercenaries to her roster, and that she shares some of their mechanics, while staying at the Vampire Coast and keeping the Resurrection mechanics (so access to some Undead units but without being able to recruit them normally via buildings like the rest of the faction).
I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but that it would be possible and that it would make the character more original and interesting while being more consistent with her lore, without removing her from the Vampire Coast either, which which can't happen since it's too late... it's done, and people who bought the DLC can't end up with a disappearing character... but it can be modified/patched.
Saying that some mercenaries are like pirates is like saying that bankers are like pirates cause they want more money too.
A pirate, by definition, is a sailor. DoWs, however, are condotierris and monsters. Tilean pikemen can't step on a boat to fight. Galloping guns are an absurd thought on a boat.
There is one unit singular that Aranessa could use
1. Remove from VC and make a living pirate race, i.e. the Grand Alliance, with Jaego Roth, Red Brokk and Yrellian - Not happening sadly 2. Move to Southern Realms - Also not happening
3. Make her Untainted instead of Vampire corruption 4. Remove all Undead lord AND hero options from her roster 5. Implement living versions of pirate lords and heroes 6. Compensate the loss of spellcasters with Priests of Manann/Stromfels 7. Expand the living unit rosters with basic humans, dwarf slayer pirates, orc mercenaries and maybe a unit or two of Sea Elves or Orc pirates. 8. Make Sartosa friendly with other mortal nations and adverserial with especially Count Noctilus.
This is essentially my wish for Aranessa. She is one of my favorite characters by the way.
I do not know how feasible it is to transfer her into another main faction. But it doesn't need to. The basic mechanics of the vampire coast are all very piraty and fit Aranessa well.
The best oppurtunity for her would thus be to become the Drycha to the Vcoast. So an antagonist faction who hates the regular one.
This would replacing most undead units with living alternatives. Especially for the sea monsters this would be easy, just remove the rotten part from the name, and the crumbling effect.
Then add new, exotic pirates esque units akin to drychas feral bears and else. They already started by giving her maneaters. Also instead if raise the dead you could get a functionaly similar mechanic called pressgang or something.
If for some reason undead units are still part of the rooster, make sure that they are used as tools and nothing more, akin to how all Wood Elves for Drycha are glamoured and brainwashed.
That way Aranessa can stay in the Vcoast but be more true to herself.
So you want to remove probably the best VCoast LL and replace her with some crappy generic vampire...
Nope, sounds awful.
Also can't see CA changing the VCoast roster in this way. Whilst Comment removed. about a mutant in a roster of the dead, she brings further character to the faction and was a great addition.
Putting Aranessa at the Vampire Coast was a huge mistake...
Because she is not supposed to be a vampire, nor even to command the dead, she is supposed to be the Queen of the Pirates and to command the living of all types... Exactly like the Dogs of War...
Now that it's done it's too late, unfortunately we can't go back... so the solution lies rather in finding how to fix the situation.
Personally I hope that later we will have the Dogs of War faction (or Southern Realm) which will appear in Total War Warhammer 3, and from that moment on, we can consider reworking Aranessa to give her some of the roster and mechanics of this faction while staying with the Vampire Coast (because people who have purchased the Vampire Coast DLC cannot end up with 1 less Legendary Lord overnight), with for example only the possibility of recruiting undead units no longer by buildings but only via the resurrection mechanics. Thus it would remain in the pirate theme and with some conditionally recruitable undead units, but it would have mechanics and a living roster for the most part, which would be more consistent with her lore while offering it an original and different gameplay other LLs of the Vampire Coast faction
In term of additional content, I would really like to see the new playable faction on the shores of Cathay arrive, it would be an interesting theme and starting position. But not necessarily with a link with the Jade Vampires Bloodline (which could go, but I would see them more integrated into the Cathay roster, see a faction of Cathay but antagonistic, we will see, everything is possible since it's brand new ), and if not we could see the missing members of the Dreedfleet arrive (Vangheist, Scretch Half-Dead, Amanhotep the Intolerant Tordrek Hackhart) see also the members of the Grand Alliance (given that Aranessa is in Vampire Coast faction, why not the others? with Jaego Roth, the Red Brokk, Prince Yrellian and the Golden Magus)
So there are a lot of cool possibility, I hope the best for this faction, and for the future of this amazing game, event if there are so misstake sometimes unfortunatly, everything can be fixed with a minimum of work and smart if we want to !
Yep. Vangheist would've fit in perfectly here and I honestly don't see him conflicting here with Cylostra. Would've made actually a melee-oriented counterpart to her. While we have anti-magic sword and gun Luthor and magical halberd-wielding (which is odd since he has a sword in art) Noctilus as two different types of vampires, Van and Cylostra would've been two different types of ghosts. The melee fighter to Cylostra's wizard.
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
DoW contain all things mercenary. And pirates are literally just aquatic mercenaries. Sartosa is even one of the Tilean provinces outlined in the DoW armybook.
Aranessa in DoW would be similarly weird unless they cut out all the Crossbowmen and Fenbeasts and the like, and have a LOT more Gunpowder than they normally have.
Honestly arenessa would be fine if there was a satrossan generic Hero and lord
Needs atleast that AND a mainline gunpowder unit and all the artillery variants to be borderline acceptable.
as a roster they don't necessarly want main line gunpowder but ii have in the past have pitched satrosan harpoon throwers as a unit so it works well with rest of the roster.
as for arty i honestly don't know what type of arty would synergize well with rest of the roster
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
Truth is, at least VC units are pirate-themed
Because some Mercenaries are kind of pirates.
Of course not all mercenaries are pirates, but they share a lot of things in common. They want money by all the way possible, the fact of fighting for the highest bidder regardless of morality.
There are even pirate units in the Dogs of War (Long Drong Slayers for example) and Sartosa is part of the Tilea and what we call the Border Princes, so it's not illogical to share some cultural things with Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
So considering that the base of Aranessa's roster would be Sarthosa militias, it is quite possible to add some Ogre units, and Dogs of War mercenaries to her roster, and that she shares some of their mechanics, while staying at the Vampire Coast and keeping the Resurrection mechanics (so access to some Undead units but without being able to recruit them normally via buildings like the rest of the faction).
I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but that it would be possible and that it would make the character more original and interesting while being more consistent with her lore, without removing her from the Vampire Coast either, which which can't happen since it's too late... it's done, and people who bought the DLC can't end up with a disappearing character... but it can be modified/patched.
. Sartosa is explicitly stated to be one of the central mercenary hubs of the old world in IIRC the context of the dogs of war armybook and IIRC also in the Warhammer Fantasy RP 2e supplement. The location is central to the dynamics of Tilea and their mercenary armies. Sartosa not being part of dogs of war would be one of the more egregious inconsistencies in the game (further aggravating the bit where a non-vampiric non-necromantic rando pirate lord randomly commands undead legions handwaved away by "she has loyal vampires for no explicable reason").
Norscans literally operate as seafarers and pirates and would be a direct fit. Vikings are pretty archetypal to the global history of piracy, if not the hackneyed pirates of the carribbean trope. There are also pirate dogs of war RoRs. Some special variants (mostly sword and pistol boarding troops and the like) and pirate-y skins for generic troops would obviously be fitting.
I don't understand people that says Aranessa would fit better in DoW. Like, have you ever looked at the DoW roster ? How does Norscans, Hobbits, Hobgoblins and Pikemen even remotely fits a pirate ?
DoW is a very landlocked race, with landlocked units and mechanics (with ONE exception). What units would Aranessa even gets from them ? Albion giants ? Fen beasts ? Armored crossboworcs ?
DoW contain all things mercenary. And pirates are literally just aquatic mercenaries. Sartosa is even one of the Tilean provinces outlined in the DoW armybook.
A pirate, by definition, is a sailor. DoWs, however, are condotierris and monsters.
And pirates. There are LITEALLY pirates in the DoW.
There is ONE pirate unit for god's sake. And the important word in your sentence is "aquatic", which 99.9% of DoW aren't. Also pirates aren't mercenaries, they are raiders.
Following your logic, btw, zombies pirates are even better for Aranessa, they're already pirates ! Not even "aquatic mercenaries", straight up pirates.
"Pirates hiring themselves out as mercenaries" is literally a tale as old as time whether we're talking ancient, medieval, or early modern, and is also part of the setting explicitly with both norscans and sartosans in the fluff materials.
"Pirates hiring themselves out as mercenaries" is literally a tale as old as time whether we're talking ancient, medieval, or early modern, and is also part of the setting explicitly with both norscans and sartosans in the fluff materials.
1. Remove from VC and make a living pirate race, i.e. the Grand Alliance, with Jaego Roth, Red Brokk and Yrellian - Not happening sadly 2. Move to Southern Realms - Also not happening
3. Make her Untainted instead of Vampire corruption 4. Remove all Undead lord AND hero options from her roster 5. Implement living versions of pirate lords and heroes 6. Compensate the loss of spellcasters with Priests of Manann/Stromfels 7. Expand the living unit rosters with basic humans, dwarf slayer pirates, orc mercenaries and maybe a unit or two of Sea Elves or Orc pirates. 8. Make Sartosa friendly with other mortal nations and adverserial with especially Count Noctilus.
I think its possible if they cut out the Pikemen, Birdmen, Pavise Crossbowmen, Knights and other DoW land army stuff, then Aranessa could work as DoW.
I mean, by that same token, Aranessa could work as VCoast if they cut out all the undead units.
Either way it'd be a pretty worthless faction to play as.
Anything that limits a faction to only being able to take, like, 5-6 unit types is a beyond terrible idea. The closest thing the game has to that right now is Clan Eshin and they can still take everyone's units, they just cost twice as much.
Post edited by DarthEnderX-#6513 on
"Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
as a roster they don't necessarly want main line gunpowder but ii have in the past have pitched satrosan harpoon throwers as a unit so it works well with rest of the roster.
as for arty i honestly don't know what type of arty would synergize well with rest of the roster
Of course the living sartosans need living mainline gunpowders and artillery variants of the undead ones. They need comparable armaments. Mortars and Cannons at the very least.
as a roster they don't necessarly want main line gunpowder but ii have in the past have pitched satrosan harpoon throwers as a unit so it works well with rest of the roster.
as for arty i honestly don't know what type of arty would synergize well with rest of the roster
Of course the living sartosans need living mainline gunpowders and artillery variants of the undead ones. They need comparable armaments. Mortars and Cannons at the very least.
Oh your thinking swamping undead units with living units .
I am thinking of more of a unified roster as race.
Oh your thinking swamping undead units with living units .
I am thinking of more of a unified roster as race.
I'm thinking there should be several Sartosan units in DoW. Aranessa should be a DoW LL who gets various buffs and discounts on those units. And her faction should just use some of the VCounts pirate mechanics.
It just seems like adding a few VCounts mechanics to her DoW faction is a much better solution than adding a bunch of living units to VCounts faction.
"Assassination's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it."
Oh your thinking swamping undead units with living units .
I am thinking of more of a unified roster as race.
I'm thinking there should be several Sartosan units in DoW. Aranessa should be a DoW LL who gets various buffs and discounts on those units. And her faction should just use some of the VCounts pirate mechanics.
It just seems like adding a few VCounts mechanics to her DoW faction is a much better solution than adding a bunch of living units to VCounts faction.
Also "should be made into" Sigvald wasn't moved because moving paid content is a big no no unless you want to be like paradox and really kill your fanbase. And in a game where they can just copy+paste spearmen, gunmen and cannons into aranessa's recruitable pirate army there is no need to. It's like making Nagash a Vampire Count lord and then wanting Arkhan to be one too, there's no reason just give him a special button to recruit Arkhan and Wallah it works out.
Kill what fanbase exactly?
How many people are so diehard for Sigvald being in WoC that they would quit the game? Because I doubt anyone would.
The solution for moving him was simple, replace him with a new LL for WoC and make Siggy a Free LL that's for Slaneesh. Nobody would have lost their DLC, he just would be updated and where he should be.
Yet for some reason this forum is chuck full of contrarians who demand things never be touched or changed.
None of that stuff was said. What was said was "it's paid content and you don't do that with paid content". There are people who would also say Slaanesh shouldn't exist at all and only daemons and warriors.
Comments
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeOf course not all mercenaries are pirates, but they share a lot of things in common. They want money by all the way possible, the fact of fighting for the highest bidder regardless of morality.
There are even pirate units in the Dogs of War (Long Drong Slayers for example) and Sartosa is part of the Tilea and what we call the Border Princes, so it's not illogical to share some cultural things with Dogs of War/Southern Realms.
So considering that the base of Aranessa's roster would be Sarthosa militias, it is quite possible to add some Ogre units, and Dogs of War mercenaries to her roster, and that she shares some of their mechanics, while staying at the Vampire Coast and keeping the Resurrection mechanics (so access to some Undead units but without being able to recruit them normally via buildings like the rest of the faction).
I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but that it would be possible and that it would make the character more original and interesting while being more consistent with her lore, without removing her from the Vampire Coast either, which which can't happen since it's too late... it's done, and people who bought the DLC can't end up with a disappearing character... but it can be modified/patched.
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3 · 1Disagree 3Agree- Report
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2 · Disagree 2Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeA pirate, by definition, is a sailor. DoWs, however, are condotierris and monsters. Tilean pikemen can't step on a boat to fight. Galloping guns are an absurd thought on a boat.
There is one unit singular that Aranessa could use
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1 · 1Disagree 1AgreeI do not know how feasible it is to transfer her into another main faction. But it doesn't need to. The basic mechanics of the vampire coast are all very piraty and fit Aranessa well.
The best oppurtunity for her would thus be to become the Drycha to the Vcoast. So an antagonist faction who hates the regular one.
This would replacing most undead units with living alternatives. Especially for the sea monsters this would be easy, just remove the rotten part from the name, and the crumbling effect.
Then add new, exotic pirates esque units akin to drychas feral bears and else. They already started by giving her maneaters. Also instead if raise the dead you could get a functionaly similar mechanic called pressgang or something.
If for some reason undead units are still part of the rooster, make sure that they are used as tools and nothing more, akin to how all Wood Elves for Drycha are glamoured and brainwashed.
That way Aranessa can stay in the Vcoast but be more true to herself.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
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2 · Disagree 2AgreeNope, sounds awful.
Also can't see CA changing the VCoast roster in this way. Whilst Comment removed. about a mutant in a roster of the dead, she brings further character to the faction and was a great addition.
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2 · 1Disagree 2Agree#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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1 · Disagree 1Agree- Report
1 · Disagree 1Agreeas for arty i honestly don't know what type of arty would synergize well with rest of the roster
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree Agree. Sartosa is explicitly stated to be one of the central mercenary hubs of the old world in IIRC the context of the dogs of war armybook and IIRC also in the Warhammer Fantasy RP 2e supplement. The location is central to the dynamics of Tilea and their mercenary armies. Sartosa not being part of dogs of war would be one of the more egregious inconsistencies in the game (further aggravating the bit where a non-vampiric non-necromantic rando pirate lord randomly commands undead legions handwaved away by "she has loyal vampires for no explicable reason").
Norscans literally operate as seafarers and pirates and would be a direct fit. Vikings are pretty archetypal to the global history of piracy, if not the hackneyed pirates of the carribbean trope. There are also pirate dogs of war RoRs. Some special variants (mostly sword and pistol boarding troops and the like) and pirate-y skins for generic troops would obviously be fitting.
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1 · 2Disagree 1AgreeFollowing your logic, btw, zombies pirates are even better for Aranessa, they're already pirates ! Not even "aquatic mercenaries", straight up pirates.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreePlus all the DoW Sartosa lore that 3 people have mentioned now that you have no answer for.
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0 · 2Disagree AgreeEither way it'd be a pretty worthless faction to play as.
Anything that limits a faction to only being able to take, like, 5-6 unit types is a beyond terrible idea. The closest thing the game has to that right now is Clan Eshin and they can still take everyone's units, they just cost twice as much.
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeI am thinking of more of a unified roster as race.
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree AgreeIt just seems like adding a few VCounts mechanics to her DoW faction is a much better solution than adding a bunch of living units to VCounts faction.
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0 · 3Disagree Agree#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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0 · Disagree Agree