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Why is debug cam option taken away from MP?

LucullusLucullus Senior MemberPosts: 156Registered Users
Why take away debug cam from MP instead of adding it as viable option in the regular menu for all to enable?

This will just provoce people to mod/hack it back and gain an advantage over those who will refrain from such an attempt.
Post edited by Lucullus on
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Comments

  • dmcheatwdmcheatw Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    someone at CA please reconsider this "fix." I understand you need to address the inequality but you should do it by giving more camera options standard not taking them away.
  • HaZE7HaZE7 Senior Member Posts: 431Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    CA HAS SPOKEN.

    What a joke. I have used the debug camera since July and it is a matter of preference, not gained advantage.

    pro: can see the map
    con: cannot micro as effectively

    I assume playing on a large tv will be outlawed next since my units appear larger on the screen. Same ****.
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Yeah I reckon enable it as a standard MP camera option - don't remove it altogether.

    I don't even zoom all the way out anyway, I usually have my camera a few metres higher than what I would normally because the camera "max height" seems a bit too low to the ground to properly observe the battlefield.
    RedStag
  • HaZE7HaZE7 Senior Member Posts: 431Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Also: I am far-sighted

    When I read I hold the paper far away. This is discrimination.
    Seriously.
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Funny as it may sound , my headline says it all.. Its a very important aspect of the game and a deal breaker if the unrestricted camera is cancelled

    Iam really gonna reduce or completely leave the game and i have already been informed by many others players that they will do so too.The camera is essential for a number of skills and different plays and affects nothing but our fun and competition. Taking it out would be simply catastrophic
    Zarganis
  • HaZE7HaZE7 Senior Member Posts: 431Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    /Signed

    I see good things with this patch. But the debug camera removal is a blight.
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    well REMOVING THE CAMERA WILL BE CATASTROPHIC
    CA should tread carefully when stepping on such important for us matters..

    leveling the field??? the prime fix they should have first implement is SINGLE unit size for mp if they wanted to level the field. Camera is free for all to use and gives no advantage but enables a certain type of play and amplifies the skilled ..
    Zarganis
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    what do you think wil be really good about it?
    the matchlock penalty?? could be but i personally have to see it first to render judgement .. Ad for the leader nerf i fear it will lead to more meleegen smaller size cav spam exploiters
    Zarganis
  • HaZE7HaZE7 Senior Member Posts: 431Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    you talking about friendly fire penalty change from 6 seconds to 30 seconds?
    Definitely will be a game changer imo.

    And I agree there will be a change to melee gen now. I already decided to change to melee gen after reading the notes since I have 5 legendary items. I have been playing with bow gen and it is not fun.. :D
    Stand and Fight nerfs seem a little bit much.

    Im glad I am cavalry clan.

    Why are you derailing your own thread zarganis :D
  • MakeNineMakeNine Senior Member Posts: 270Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I'm glad the satellite imagery is going.
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  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    ohh you ll be going melee? mm but the 2 morale gain you ll lose?? and the + 2 attack?
    still for people with real armies (not cav spammers) are a must i think

    its not satellite i dont use it that way cause if you do you cant micro .BUT without it you cant enable certain plays and flanking tactics while it renders 2v2s and 3v3s especially virtually academic experiences
    Zarganis
  • tricky-steptricky-step Senior Member Posts: 168Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I never used it and never thought the normal restricted camera was a detriment to my competitive ability compared to those who do use the debug camera. I can understand certain players who felt it gave them an advantage by viewing the map on a much larger scale, but understand that the debug option was never an official option to begin with. If CA wants to have everyone on the same level, its fair for everyone and restores the immersive experience that Shogun 2 was designed for. As I said before, I never used it and was never inclined to activate it, so it doesn't affect me at all.
  • MajutsuMajutsu Senior Member Posts: 171Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I don't understand the "immersiveness" people tend to talk about. That isn't an important part of the multiplayer experience at all imo. When I'm playing MP, I am not admiring my cav units charging into melee or my bows firing. No, I'm constantly microing my units to gain an edge over my opponent. I presume its like this for most multiplayer gamers.

    We don't actually specifically need the debug camera. We just need a more zoomed out camera that can keep up with our micro abilities and lets us play at our full potential. Its also essential for the tournament and livestream part of TW. And if you make such a camera available to all, everyone can be happy and no one will feel cheated.
  • (Darkelf) Temper(Darkelf) Temper Senior Member Posts: 541Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I havnt read the notes yet.

    Would've been better to refine/fix the debug camera and make it accessable from in game options,rather than drop it all together.
  • kamikaze7100kamikaze7100 Senior Member Posts: 107Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    well i played about 800 h without unrestricted cam but i agree with zarganis.
  • HaZE7HaZE7 Senior Member Posts: 431Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    ohh you ll be going melee? mm but the 2 morale gain you ll lose?? and the + 2 attack?
    still for people with real armies (not cav spammers) are a must i think

    Heavenly Banner will help. Im going to be cav spamming though. definitely.
  • LucullusLucullus Senior Member Posts: 156Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    CA, free the camera
  • justyhawkjustyhawk Senior Member Posts: 459Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I played 750 hours without the degug cam, I recently started using it. I like the debug cam.

    "its not satellite i dont use it that way cause if you do you cant micro .BUT without it you cant enable certain plays and flanking tactics while it renders 2v2s and 3v3s especially virtually academic experiences" Exorgistis77

    I think those flanking tactics were sometimes a little unfair on the restricted cam players I must say, especially sneaking cav around behind those players as it can be easily missed in classic cam.

    I'm on the fence on this issue, I'm not convinced that is essential to have the debug cam. I was perfectly happy before I had the freedom it gives, but it does take you away from the beautiful ingame graphics.
  • justyhawkjustyhawk Senior Member Posts: 459Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I think they should have just enabled classic cam to just zoom out a few steps further and therefore give a little compromise to the debug cam users.
  • SasuSasu Moderator FinlandPosts: 8,833Registered Users, Moderators
    edited March 2012
    Similar threads merged.
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  • themonkeythemonkey Senior Member Posts: 310Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    well denying battle and general sniping will be a lot easier now ;0.
    gn = <g) gensou If you want to 1v1 message me :0, need to find more good player to play with :0 to improve ;).
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    justyhawk wrote: »
    I think they should have just enabled classic cam to just zoom out a few steps further and therefore give a little compromise to the debug cam users.

    that could work but bear in mind that ,

    without free cam 2v2s and 3v3s are not the same at all and that with the normal camera , camping ambush tactics are vastly enhanced while flanking and disengaged group tactics will as i said suffer.. There will be a turning back to noob-box missile hill camping
    Zarganis
  • HallorranHallorran Senior Member Posts: 130Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    The debug going is a real shame, we've had it for over 10 years so why remove it now. Please either bring it back or increase the zoom on existing views.
    Its also awful for the ever popular game streaming and commentating that was promoting TW nicely.

    Ill reserve judgement on the unneeded changes to swords and guns until I test, but once again it looks like you didnt listen at all to the MPCommunity, the Mounted Sam change is useless as Cav spammers can still take 7 mounted missiles with Mounted Gunner.
    AggonySpoon, MizuSpoon
  • AnjinSanAnjinSan Senior Member Posts: 471Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    that could work but bear in mind that ,

    without free cam 2v2s and 3v3s are not the same at all and that with the normal camera , camping ambush tactics are vastly enhanced while flanking and disengaged group tactics will as i said suffer.. There will be a turning back to noob-box missile hill camping

    Such a shame that you'll actually have to rely on your team mates to effectively pass information rather than having a perfect view of the entire battle field from Shogun Sat.
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Nice to see the complaining of the cheater cam users. Dont worry i am sure some guys will hack it back and spread it through the known ways as the debug cam mod back in the days.

    Some people urgendly need to be a tip ahead.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • NaishoNaisho Senior Member USAPosts: 3,361Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I wouldnt mod the MP portion of the game... Shogun is protected by the steam anti cheat system. If you break it you lose your game permanently.
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  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    9 out 10 top 500 players use the unrestricted i didnt know it was cheating , i thought it was readily available to ALL

    Its funny to call it a cheat cam really it just makes the game better and promotes a more energetic gameplay . I see static players and campers dont need it as the standard cam is more than fine for them giving actually an advantage to their camping ambushes
    Zarganis
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    perhaps some of top 500 were top 500 cause they got a comfortable battlefield overview?
    And grab every advantage they can get.

    I guess you will lose to a noob if your cam would be just directed to the generals 3rd person hoseback view.

    So a cam mod, even its old, is a cheat. Would be fine for me if this cam option would be a standart option for all players. then its not a cheat, it is a feature for all.

    Cheat cause its not available to all as standart and gives a advantage. Did you remember our battle at oboke canion?
    I did that with standart cam, and had much work to coordinate the army and "forget" to move some units, right in time needet, cause i did not have the whole army in one comfortable view.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • KillerMonkeyBobKillerMonkeyBob Senior Member Posts: 609Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Never used it, never had a problem. Actually glad to see it go, CA done a good job with this one.
  • Tyler the GreatTyler the Great Junior Member Posts: 14Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    The debug camera is still around for campaign, replays and custom battles. It is only disabled for multiplayer.
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