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Debug cam and replays: hotfix coming

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  • SwooshSoSwooshSo Senior Member Posts: 1,677Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Big kiss CA, good to see you have made the right decision after all, next release if its made a standard feature all is good.
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  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Replay fix is great.

    But consider a available for all ingame option on debug cam or keep this not fair play "to be moddet" in Cam feature out of game.

    Then it will be a cheater cam again if need to moddet in, or edit a file manually before start shogun.
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • Sun\'TzuSun\'Tzu Junior Member Posts: 17Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    CraigTW wrote: »
    We removed the debug cam in the spirit of fair play

    That was a very good dicision! Why is CA listen to a small part of the community who is crying because they lose their advantage. The people who crying for debug cam are often players who have high ranking places. They fear losing their place because they are now playing under the same conditions like any other.

    If poeple have Skill then they can use the Minimap. They dont need Debug Cam. When CA re-enable the Camera then they can remove Minimap, too.
    CraigTW wrote: »
    Each time we make a decision, we do so because we think it's right for the game.
    How inconsistent is it to reverse this good decision!

    In the END:
    CA vs. Whiners and Crybabies - 0:1

    I hope their will be a rematch.
  • ^_^Belle^_^Belle Senior Member Posts: 234Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Craig, why not just make it an in-game option next patch?

    I think that's why people hate it most. It's something many Total War MP veterans know about (assuming you know about the preferences.txt), but txt file sifting is a bit confusing to the newbies.

    I, for one, am certainly happy it's back. If anything, it's very nice for tournament casting.

    And I hope unrestricted camera is included in future TW games.
  • SlySly Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    ^_^Belle wrote: »
    Craig, why not just make it an in-game option?

    I think that's why people hate it most. It's something many Total War MP veterans know about (assuming you know about the preferences.txt), but txt file sifting is a bit confusing to the newbies.

    I think its because many casual gamers would call it buggy and get confused about it. Its still a debug cam used by players. Not a game cam. And probably the standard cam is more "in touch" with CA's vision of the game. But thats just my opionion.

    As Yoritomo said, the replay fix is great and the best thing of the day. This will help everyone.

    I used the debug cam myself. For me it was just more fun playing with a wider view and imho enhanced the game a little bit. I guess my skill (sure i don't have much of it :)) is almost identically with all three kinds of the cam - if everyone uses the same. But the main problem is, as a lot of people already said, the debug cam isnt available for everyone. I wasnt aware of this before. Playing around with preference scripts, or just reading everything about a game i play, is normal for me. Thougt everyone and his mother would use it.

    I stay with the normal cam after the fix, because of the imbalance the Sputnik cam provides. But i still see the benefits of the debug cam.

    In my Opinion it would be better to alter the standard cam so we can zoom out a litte bit more. Or just bring a new one: competition/spectator/commentator cam or whatever you might call it.

    But more important: same rules for everyone
  • TotalWar.getCoke()TotalWar.getCoke() Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    @CA,Craig: It's great that you fix the broken replay issue. There are hundreds of epic replays which are ready to watch again.
    CraigTW wrote: »
    We removed the debug cam in the spirit of fair play

    All of us want a fair and good game. It's not fair to reactivate the debug cam for the happy few. They gain a such huge advantageiin multiplayer battles - so either you build it in as an option in the menu or you leave it out.

    Like Sun\'Tzu
    CA vs. Whiners and Crybabies
    0 : 1
  • treetree Senior Member Posts: 806Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    You do realize that the ones crying got the cam removed right :P You guys cried and now your still crying. Do not be hippos and act like your not.
  • Dionysius the MightyDionysius the Mighty Senior Member Posts: 3,194Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I'm sorry to hear about your decision about the debug cam. It's clearly an unfair advantage to those who use it, still you re-enable it. Add it as an option for everyone or leave it out.

    This. Unless the debug cam is included in the options screen, and it is very clearly pointed out to all the players, this is a cheat. I maintain that removing it from MP mode only was the correct decision, and I'm sorry to hear that it's going to be brought back in this manner.
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  • -RON-Marcin I Szlachetny-RON-Marcin I Szlachetny Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Hello

    I`m really surprised that CA surrender so fast, but when You are facing big troubles with new game it is what it is.

    I was disapointed with the patch befor this one, but after 1-2 weeks of playing I really enjoy the game much more. One of the things I dislike after this are machlocks, they are still too cheap, ashigaru even cheaper - OP.

    This is strategy game, a great one, so first i was very disappointed when camera was removed, but after 2-5 battles i was glad, 1st its much harder, 2nd managing army and playing teambattles is tough as it should be,
    I even suggest making camera as it was in Medieval 2- restricted to general only.
    At least horses spammers have to try harder, so Thank You.

    So please CA don`t bend so easily, stick to Your decision on this, it will be better, only think You can change is to add debug mode to observers, thats all

    You`re saying there is no problem with realistic, don`t You? Please, just admit that You are much weaker now and have big troubles to manage and adjust.

    The fact that You change many things that are silly we all know, ping flags on left mouse? drill square +2 or +1 deff for who? nagg or swords? even map is bugged like hell, +5 bonus from 2 neighbouring provinces is WORLD CLASS of laziness, +10 form 1 is beyond my mind ,but camera change is bold and valid.

    Anyway great job on that CA, and I wish You peace of mind and wisdom.
  • Ace_BlazerAce_Blazer Senior Member Toronto, CanadaPosts: 5,910Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    My view: mini-map+standard cam (2 screens to pay attention to) ≠ debug cam (1 screen). And really, if I were to use forum posts to judge how many people want the cam back, then maybe I should look at the support forum requests and rant threads that number in the hundreds and judge that this game crashes for everyone.
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  • King MakerKing Maker Member Posts: 83Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Ace Blazer wrote: »
    Glad to see replays have been fixed. Been waiting on that for a long time.

    question....does this fix PRE hotfix replays?...or just POST hot fix replays?


    "Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the Tiger, ended up inside" JFK


    Disclaimer: Any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or Sega
  • PariyaPariya Senior Member Posts: 567Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Replays & the camera get fixed in one swift stroke of the sword.

    I can't wait for this hotfix, thank you very much!
    I guess i'll start linking my channel again: http://www.YouTube.com/BadEgoGM
  • (Darkelf) Temper(Darkelf) Temper Senior Member Posts: 541Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    King Maker wrote: »
    question....does this fix PRE hotfix replays?...or just POST hot fix replays?

    Nope,I havn't checked but believe your old replays will be worse than before.Have a quick look and see.Best to just delete old replays after a patch and start fresh.
  • King MakerKing Maker Member Posts: 83Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Nope,I havn't checked but believe your old replays will be worse than before.Have a quick look and see.Best to just delete old replays after a patch and start fresh.

    Well the Hotfix hasnt been released yet....but when it is i will check


    "Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the Tiger, ended up inside" JFK


    Disclaimer: Any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or Sega
  • Sun\'TzuSun\'Tzu Junior Member Posts: 17Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Ace Blazer wrote: »
    My view: mini-map+standard cam (2 screens to pay attention to) ≠ debug cam (1 screen).

    Yes, thats right! And Minimap-using needs Skill and the Player who hasn't it crying for debug-Cam. And CA listen to this whiners! :-(

    CA's Fairplay-strategy goodbye!
  • MoscMosc Member Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Can't believe CA gave in so fast. It would of been best to compromise and allow you to zoom the normal camera out a bit further.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Good job CA. It's a good hotfix.

    It's been to long we've been stuck with corrupted replays.

    I would've settled for a good increase in cam height, but also allow specs and watching replays to use maximum height. The debug cam aka camerafreedom will do though, thanks.

    Standard cam just adds unnecessary scrolling instead of being more focused on battling your opponent, doesn't have much to do with skill like those claim it dose.
  • Sir_Nicholas_AltmannSir_Nicholas_Altmann Senior Member Split, Dalmatia, CroatiaPosts: 2,057Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    This. Unless the debug cam is included in the options screen, and it is very clearly pointed out to all the players, this is a cheat. I maintain that removing it from MP mode only was the correct decision, and I'm sorry to hear that it's going to be brought back in this manner.

    I completely support your opinion. Lets make a pool to leave debug camera out of the game.
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  • leebyloafleebyloaf Member Posts: 82Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    After getting used to standard cam, I started liking it more, it's less buggy. I would've been happy if the standard cam's max height was just a bit higher.

    As a side note, standard cam requires much more micro and looking around, constantly checking the minimap and switching views. I guess it was good practice for my micro.
  • Sir_Nicholas_AltmannSir_Nicholas_Altmann Senior Member Split, Dalmatia, CroatiaPosts: 2,057Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    leebyloaf wrote: »
    After getting used to standard cam, I started liking it more, it's less buggy. I would've been happy if the standard cam's max height was just a bit higher.

    As a side note, standard cam requires much more micro and looking around, constantly checking the minimap and switching views. I guess it was good practice for my micro.

    I never used the debug camera. Been playing this since Shogun 1. I wasn't to aware that there was one. Just rapid micro and skill helped my be good in this game. Also I like to zoom in into the fight.
    WITHOUT DREAMS WE WALK AMONG THE DEAD
  • FilusiFilusi Junior Member Posts: 13Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Don´t go back again CA in the decision of the debug camera because of the crying of some cheaters.

    My opinion is the same like Dionysius the Mighty (and many others before like Sun Tzu) :
    This. Unless the debug cam is included in the options screen, and it is very clearly pointed out to all the players, this is a cheat. I maintain that removing it from MP mode only was the correct decision, and I'm sorry to hear that it's going to be brought back in this manner.

    "top-level competition" as you mean, should be fair!
  • SkollopSkollop Senior Member Behind you :OPosts: 3,250Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    As I haven't been able to connect to the forum for the last few days I haven't been able to write more about my opinion, but here it is: I find this rather sad. When you guys actually make a decision to make the game more fair you suddenly think it's a bad idea because a group of players whine about it. I don't find the debug cam fair as it gives a player an advantage over a player which don't know of this cheat(in a lack of a better) which I don't think is good.At least make it not useable in Matchmade battles. Most of the top-players fight each other in costum battles which is okay for me as it's usually only players that knows each other that fight those battles. The worst thing is that it seem more peopel want it out instead of in. All in all, I'm disoppointed CA :)

    ps. What about a poll for this so we can actually see what people want?
    Previously known as DenmarkRules
  • (Darkelf) Temper(Darkelf) Temper Senior Member Posts: 541Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    As I haven't been able to connect to the forum for the last few days I haven't been able to write more about my opinion, but here it is: I find this rather sad. When you guys actually make a decision to make the game more fair you suddenly think it's a bad idea because a group of players whine about it. I don't find the debug cam fair as it gives a player an advantage over a player which don't know of this cheat(in a lack of a better) which I don't think is good.At least make it not useable in Matchmade battles. Most of the top-players fight each other in costum battles which is okay for me as it's usually only players that knows each other that fight those battles. The worst thing is that it seem more peopel want it out instead of in. All in all, I'm disoppointed CA :)

    ps. What about a poll for this so we can actually see what people want?

    Poll was made and final.It was not on this forum,but placed at TW centres forum in the general section,lobbyists organized and got the job done that they needed to do ie: spread the word for other MP debug cam users to sign/vote for it.

    The petition itself had just over 100 votes if I remember correctly and it was 60 something to 40 something.Not a great turn out for either side of the fence.

    The main thing now is that,since it is a sanctioned by CA cam we should all be demanding it be refined for public consumption and added to the in game menu.At the very least a sticky thread with how to instructions with bold print thread title.

    Rather than look back,I'd like to look forward. =)
  • treetree Senior Member Posts: 806Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Look its a different cam I am unsure if you can say your making the game more "fair" by not allowing people to go in and change cam settings. It gives not special units you still have to mirco ect ect ect. This is not a magic tool from what I understand its been around and used for a long time.
    Some people LIKES the cam so much they will not play the game otherwise does that make them "lets skilled cheat scum" In my view no they simply demand a better cam so I get one. (Not only but I would debate if the cam is "better")
    Point in point you the cam is also a favorite to casters steamers ect.


    Also I stand by my statement that you guys are also whining...... considering you simply what to remove it. Instead of improve something you scream "REMOVE IT" "UNFAIR UNBALANCE" "KILLLLLLL" ect ect. You guys are whining as well do not call people who lobby for a cause whiners just cause you do not like what the are for.
  • SkollopSkollop Senior Member Behind you :OPosts: 3,250Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    The whole point is just that in a competetive game, all people should have the some opportunities. You wouldn't like your opponent to be able to look around corners in BF3/MW3, if you couldn't, right?
    Again, make it a standard option for everyone or leave it out as you intented in the beginning. The option would be the best as it doesn't limit anyone, therefore everyone will be happy(unless you really want to cheat and get an unfair advantage)
    Previously known as DenmarkRules
  • treetree Senior Member Posts: 806Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    The whole point is just that in a competetive game, all people should have the some opportunities. You wouldn't like your opponent to be able to look around corners in BF3/MW3, if you couldn't, right?
    Again, make it a standard option for everyone or leave it out as you intented in the beginning. The option would be the best as it doesn't limit anyone, therefore everyone will be happy(unless you really want to cheat and get an unfair advantage)


    Are you really making this point when there are I do not know random drop retainers? Plus its being yelled from the roof tops so people will know about it from this post. However my issue is that you guys cry to ban it outright instead of improving it which can be done. (right CA?)
    Also if I am not mistaken you can increase your field of view in TF2 in the settings and its not a "cheat" but plz do not bring FPSs into this.
  • SkollopSkollop Senior Member Behind you :OPosts: 3,250Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Yes, in TF2 as examply you can increase the view in the settings. Everyone has the same opportunity of knowing it when it's an optino in the settings. However this requires modding the files, and as you can see, a veteran player which has played TW for 6 years didn't know of this "cheat" for S2, therefore I don't see it as an option for everyone to know of.
    The random drop, has nothing to do with this. It's random and you have the same chance of getting it as I do. It is completely different.

    Again, the solution to all this would be to put it in as a setting. Everyone would be happy.
    Previously known as DenmarkRules
  • BurnyBurny Senior Member Posts: 192Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Please give us a small button in the camera options for debug cam, I didn't even know what it was until this patch, and I think if it's gonna be a feature it should be easy to enable for everyone (no script changing necessary).
    Proud member of Sakua Gaming
  • MefistoMefisto Member Posts: 82Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Tnx For fixing this very important issues we missing only HERO SKILL RESET and we are fine:)
    The man who has no problems is out of the game
  • treetree Senior Member Posts: 806Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    It's random and you have the same chance of getting it as I do. It is completely different.

    Ok I agree it should be in setting but never argue that random drops are fair. They are RANDOM ya we all have the same chance but that just means you may get ALL of the retainers while I get nothing is that fair just cause we have the same chance?

    Random drops are based off luck which in my view is more unfair than the cam cause thats based on what for a different cam setting not OP units a unstoppable gen ect ect,. (All due to random luck not skill not anything else)

    Also calling something a "cheat" does not make it so. Its a different cam nothing more some people increase speed settings on there cam they can turn faster so all of this ect ect. This is a what of more setting for TW cams being fulfilled by a "Debug cam"

    Now you have to be realistic it may not be able to be put as a setting but we can sticky how to get said cam on this forum which would be a huge step in the right direction.

    However if CA can get as a setting there is no issue so I hope CA does that which would be a better course of action.
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