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Adorbs

I just can't win.

HebrindHebrind Junior MemberPosts: 24Registered Users
I've tried everything.

I've tried using a mixture of veterans and vanilla troops.
I've tyried using Ashigaru and samurai
I've tried samurai and monks
I've tried ashigaru and monks
I've tried flanking with cavalry
I've tried baiting with light cav
I've tried matchlock
I've tried bows
I always keep my flanks guarded
I always make sure my missile troops are guarded
I always make sure my ashigaru go in first and samurai second
I always keep my general in range
I use cooldowns when I need to

And yet the enemy player always smashes through my army like a hammer upon glass. I'm constantly put up against armies that are smaller than mine and yet somehow they will come out with such small casualties, I wonder if there was any point to me even trying to attack them.

Whenever I go into a game, even if I have all fresh "vanilla" infantry, the other guy always seems to have more than me. If I have 2 horse units, he has 4.

I'm constantly pitted against people who are thousands of ranks above me, regardless of my win/loss ratio.

I'm disheartened, I'm fed up and I'm bored of losing. I haven't had a victory in days. I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong.
Post edited by Hebrind on

Comments

  • (Darkelf) Temper(Darkelf) Temper Senior Member Posts: 541Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Chin up mate,rome wasn't built in a day !

    Sounds like early days.

    Keep your head cool and learn from losses,now that replays are fixed. *crosses fingers*

    Play some battlelist games with people your own avatar level.Ask people in game about their armies and friend them to discuss the game.

    Things are tough to start and things get tougher further down the track,but by then you'll be a hardened general with many vets at your command.

    Seek out Ares and Pariyas youtube channels.They have some good learning vids.Can find them in the lets play section.
  • MrBoBo1MrBoBo1 Senior Member Posts: 441Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Host a game saying "noobs only" and boot anyone with higher level stars.
    Most of the games I see are for lower than higher level games with newer players checking out the MP.
    Keep it below 4 stars and you shouldn't have to deal with tons of vet units and unlocks.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    It sounds like you're quite unlucky regarding what opponents you face. It was actually quite recent that I ranked up myself (now I'm 9 star bronze) and I won 2 out of 3 battles from the get go, right now it looks like my ratio is imroving to 3 out of 4. Perhaps I can recommend watching some gameplay/advice videos online, I learned a lot from those.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited March 2012
    MrBoBo1 wrote: »
    Host a game saying "noobs only" and boot anyone with higher level stars.
    Most of the games I see are for lower than higher level games with newer players checking out the MP.
    Keep it below 4 stars and you shouldn't have to deal with tons of vet units and unlocks.

    beating up on weaker skilled players, and kicking high level players is a bad idea. srsly I've been kick in almost every game cuz im a gold lvl 10 in S2. And those players arent gonna learn from playing with people with less experience.
  • AggonyKingAggonyKing Senior Member Posts: 365Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    you got any replays of your latest games?
  • MrBoBo1MrBoBo1 Senior Member Posts: 441Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    beating up on weaker skilled players

    I wouldn't say lower star players are less skilled. The people with more stars have an advantage that has very little to do with skill. Vet units and higher tier units. For a new player, aside from the skill diffrence, they also just have a huge dis-advantage in the units they are using. It makes sense to play with people who have roughly the same set of units and vet as you.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Yes, give us some nice and (mostly) uncorrupted replays. Then we can tell you how you can improve.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • WolfSwooshWolfSwoosh Senior Member Posts: 1,654Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Most likely you are giving away dojos, not rallying, not using stand and fight or not using other abilities or matching retainers well to your army.
    Brief Totalwar history:

    STW1 MTW1 - 5 time Clan warbelt winner (As member of clan GreyWolves)
    STW2 - 1 Time Clan warbelt winner (As member of Aggony Clan)
    2v2 Ladder - Rank 1 96% win Ratio Teammate AggonyAMP
    Totalwar Hall of Fame Awards: As voted by the community at totalwar.org
    Badge Name: Hall of Fame 2011
    Award: Most Feared Multiplayer Player 2011
    Badge Name: Hall of Fame 2010
    Award: Best Tea House Contributor 2010

    http://db.tt/QwxpUpSa Totalwar Nostalgia!
    http://db.tt/RFwMczYt
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    MrBoBo1 wrote: »
    I wouldn't say lower star players are less skilled. The people with more stars have an advantage that has very little to do with skill. Vet units and higher tier units. For a new player, aside from the skill diffrence, they also just have a huge dis-advantage in the units they are using. It makes sense to play with people who have roughly the same set of units and vet as you.

    Indeed it can be a challenge to deal with opponents who can bring better and more retainers and who have more unit variety. But again: if you have skill, you can overcome that. That's what every new player has to go through, so those defeats should teach you something if you want to be successful.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • brvtvsbrvtvs Senior Member Posts: 119Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    beating up on weaker skilled players, and kicking high level players is a bad idea. srsly I've been kick in almost every game cuz im a gold lvl 10 in S2. And those players arent gonna learn from playing with people with less experience.

    I know we've had our differences but that's good advice.
    Always a good thing to play with/against people from whom there's something to learn.
  • MrBoBo1MrBoBo1 Senior Member Posts: 441Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Indeed it can be a challenge to deal with opponents who can bring better and more retainers and who have more unit variety. But again: if you have skill, you can overcome that. That's what every new player has to go through, so those defeats should teach you something if you want to be successful.

    I think, in the last week or two of playing, only once have I ever seen a really low star (one) player beat a higher star player. This player admitted he was a long time Total War player before Shogun 2.
  • i like TW gamesi like TW games Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    You ''win'' by having a good game in Shogun 2, not just by being the one who gets the ''victory'' screen at the end.

    There are probably dozens of ways that you can get a win in Shogun 2 and not even fight your enemy, so as long as you get a good battle an honorable opponent, you have ''won'' just by having a good time.

    And if the clan tokens are the things that you have a problem getting, don't worry about it, you don't even need them to make a good veteran. They are to expensive anyway.
    Playing Total War since the original Shogun
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    MrBoBo1 wrote: »
    I think, in the last week or two of playing, only once have I ever seen a really low star (one) player beat a higher star player. This player admitted he was a long time Total War player before Shogun 2.

    Being a TW veteran doesn't have to matter as S2 plays very differently with its rock paper scissors mechanics. You have to develop your skill based on these mechanics to win. That's why I recommended watching gameplay videos with commentary. They were very helpful to me and are probably the reason I won more battles than I lost right from the start.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • BengalTigerBengalTiger Senior Member Posts: 492Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Right, so what you really want to do is go to the battle list and pair up with a group of other players. The level of these other player's avatar, is really what matters most (contrary to what some might profess). Example: an average player with a 10 Gold avatar on ultra funds can take on 2 mid/high level Bronze avatars without breaking a sweat (or barely looking at the screen - never mind which camera they might be using). On that note, do not be fooled by the number of stars. There is a universe of difference between a level 0 Bronze and a level 0 Gold (contrary to what some players might tell you, in order to get you to concede a loss to them).

    Whatever you do, keep away from Matchmaker, untill you are at least level 7 Bronze - you will be either losing your way to the top, or quitting the game otherwise.
  • YoritomoYoritomo Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Perhaps i miss the point, but you will never win vs some few people in this game. Careless what you do, by time you learn the names. See the stats, pre-battle, some are realy unnatural.

    My advice to every real newbie i met:
    Host room in battle list naming the max limit of bronze stars you want. Kick everyone out who is 2 Stars above you or who has more than double your victories/Clantokens. At about 400 Victories / Clantokens available to a player the game gets even matched.
    In a PvP RPG you dont expect to win as a Lvl 1 vs a Lvl 80, so be whise. Perhaps some "training" matches vs friends to help you through the first games.

    gl&hf
    You want successfully arty camp in deploy zone? Go ahead and get your win.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited March 2012
    ULTRA FUNDS? only noobs play on that.

    Playing with highly skilled players allow low lvls have reference in what to do to get better.
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited March 2012
    Stick to battle list for a while, stick to small or medium funds, watch replays, think about what worked and what didn't. Don't play MM or MP as if it is SP.

    Don't be disheartended too much, there are some real monsters out there in mm, and more than a few who really do know what they are doing...it takes time and effort to become reasonable.

    Good luck :)
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • DevlinXIIIDevlinXIII Member Posts: 51Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    And uncheck the mixed avatars option, cuz ROTS unbalanced units will destroy anything u put up too even more.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    I think it all comes down to what your priorities are. If you just wanna play and have fun without getting very competitive, play against people of equal skill. If you wanna get better at the game watch commentaries and play vs better players, save the replays, watch and see why you lost. And if you face a high level player, never put the funds level on high or ultra. His vets will destroy you otherwise. Small funds are there to give low level players with low level units a numbers advantage, and I think it is balanced rather well. What's still unfair when playing on low funds is the number and quality of retainers as well as the actual skill level. The skill level is what you can do something about. I overcame and so can you if you really want to.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    to win against a 'good player' hope they have a bad day, thats the main reason i lose sometimes is if i have a bad day or i get preoccupied by youtube.
    it's not all that hard to beat a fots player, or a shogun 2 playert, just a matter of experience strat and time, unless the player is a legend in mirco, everyone is beatable
    Fear God, Honor King
  • SecuterSecuter Senior Member Posts: 1,693Registered Users
    edited March 2012
    Vanilla units are dead units, don't use them if you can avoid it. If you are low on vets just farm some in battlelist with a friend.

    Remember to put cards (in options) on "always" now you can see the enemies units' stats. Thus you know which you should use the matchlocks, bows or whatever on. If you are low on tokens only upgrade swordmen to lvl 5 --> 2 attack 1 def 1 morale and 1 fatigue.

    Also remember to take some good retainers to your army!!
    Make a Medieval 3!
    More units.
    More interested in European history.
    Different cultures.
    More factions.
    Not that many gun powder troops, it's not a new Empire I want.
  • RaptorJesusDesuRaptorJesusDesu Member Posts: 32Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Older players have an advantage in retainers, which is not a HUGE thing but still can be important. IMO that's the only part that is "unfair." The vet thing is really not as big of a deal (unless the new player is totally, utterly new). The money you save by running a normal army is significant. If I am playing a 5k I'm not going to be super motivated to use some 1k+ koku vet. Not only that but yes, their general is ****tier but at the cost of up to an entire other squad of units. A mere 150 koku on a vanilla Shogun 2 player, if he has ROTS, can amount to 75 units on the field capable of mauling cavalry or doing decent in melee or running around in loose formation as your meat shield etc. Up to a point, having the enemy's flank because your army is a bit bigger can definitely mean more in this game than simply having stronger units. But most new players don't know how to use their advantages.

    If you are playing an unofficial game where it is possible to fill every single command card slot with high level vets then yes, I guess that would be really unfair.
  • Hidden GunmanHidden Gunman Moderator Posts: 4,606Moderators
    edited April 2012
    A good idea starting 'habit' to get into is this:

    1. Build your army before you do any mm game; Build it up to the highest level of mm game that you will encounter at your star level, i.e 1 -3, small funds, 1 - 5, medium funds, etc; Have a back-up idea of what you will delete or adjust if you find yourself in a smaller fund mm game;

    2. Make sure that your retainers are the ones you want; No point in taking along retainers that don't match your build;

    3. Once into the pre-battle screen, take a look at your opponent; Click on their avi pic to see what it says about them, i.e. favours missiles, etc; Then, click on the 'view profile' button down in the bottom right hand corner, that will generally show you their best ranking, their wins and losses, etc.

    4. Check the map you are on. You can make any adjustments to your build based on map, opponent, etc.

    5. Once in the deployment screen, try to have an order that you do your deployment, i.e. group and stretch cav, position it; group and stretch infantry, position them; etc. This should cut down your setup times.
    Yes, it's me.

    Gungho |Takeda| Yamagato Masakage

    You have spoken with clarity of thought and rhetorical flourish...you have surely earned the favour of the mods.

    If you didn't, click here...
  • i like TW gamesi like TW games Senior Member Posts: 701Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    3. Once into the pre-battle screen, take a look at your opponent; Click on their avi pic to see what it says about them, i.e. favours missiles, etc; Then, click on the 'view profile' button down in the bottom right hand corner, that will generally show you their best ranking, their wins and losses, etc.

    All sound advice.

    But this one I have a problem with sometimes, the game sometimes gets stuck when I go to players profiles. Like every 3rd time or so. Anyone else have this problem?
    Playing Total War since the original Shogun
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Hebrind wrote: »
    I've tried everything.

    I've tried using a mixture of veterans and vanilla troops.
    I've tyried using Ashigaru and samurai
    I've tried samurai and monks
    I've tried ashigaru and monks
    I've tried flanking with cavalry
    I've tried baiting with light cav
    I've tried matchlock
    I've tried bows
    I always keep my flanks guarded
    I always make sure my missile troops are guarded
    I always make sure my ashigaru go in first and samurai second
    Whenever I go into a game, even if I have all fresh "vanilla" infantry, the other guy always seems to have more than me. If I have 2 horse units, he has 4.
    I'm constantly pitted against people who are thousands of ranks above me.
    I'm disheartened, I'm fed up and I'm bored of losing.
    Honestly your attitude sounds poor never get fed up because then you wont win, just walk away and come back when you're more encouraged. also never say you've tried everything, don't even say you've tried something until you have at least 10 games with it and try not to get an opinion about it until game 25.
    Also it looks like you've been playing looking for a build that will mean you always win and if you're looking for an army to win it for you, your aren't thinking for your self.
    I'd suggest you decide on a unit type you think is cool and build your army around that, for example this was my thinking when I made my build;
    I like cavalry and especially Great guard, so I will use them.
    I have this much cav so I'll want to get something that can hold down an enemy so I can hammer and anvil, naggy sams sound good.
    I dont like being forced into a fight so I need ranged units, since I like cav and have decent micro I'll use bow cav.
    Naggy sams aren't great at killing people so I'll need some high damge units like katana cav.

    When you build you're own army you know how it ought to work and that alone improves your ingame decision making and wins you battles.
  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Older players have an advantage in retainers,

    even senior players that are lvl 10 and have 5 retainer spots
    still means nothing
    seeming that most the time the good retainers you haven't got
    but lower players do

    and dude getting fed up with a RTS is always known, god i had a 26 losing streak once, and i was so frustrted, i just left and played battlefield andmade me more frustrated then i player again and i felt better
    Fear God, Honor King
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    even senior players that are lvl 10 and have 5 retainer spots
    still means nothing
    seeming that most the time the good retainers you haven't got
    but lower players do

    and dude getting fed up with a RTS is always known, god i had a 26 losing streak once, and i was so frustrted, i just left and played battlefield andmade me more frustrated then i player again and i felt better

    I think he was referring that higher level players have more provinces and battles and so more useful retainers rather than +1 defense for yari ashigaru.
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