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I can´t win land battles on normal in Fots!

Frenzy_oneFrenzy_one Junior MemberPosts: 3Registered Users
I´ve been trying to play this game a lot and I just can´t get anywhere because I won´t win land battles defensive or offensive ones if I do not heavily outnumber them. Just a few minutes ago I fought a land battle and I won it, but not.

They fled but I sustained heavier losses and they will eat my up next turn :) I never played Total war until ETW.

I was using a (imo) decent defensive line with 4 line infantry in a row in the front flanked by one spear levy on each side and a Yari kachi right behind the center of the line. one hiding unit on each side to create a killzone.

What happens is they charge in with 2-3 cav units and I deal with them with my spear levies and one infantry unit pretty quickly but when they charge with their melee heavy line-up they don´t take any casualities and manage to get all my line infantry engaged but one. Then they keep their own ranged units in the rear preventing any flanking attempts from me and basicly they just swarm me. I even had one unit stack more then them and it felt like I was outnumbered by 2-4. Any basic tips on how to land battle in Fots?
Post edited by Frenzy_one on


  • Unhappy SamuraiUnhappy Samurai Senior Member Posts: 231Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    It sounds like it's in the early stages of the game that you have problems!

    The other clans (mostly pro shogunate clans) bring heavy melee armies with lots of katana and yari kachi.. unless you are able to shoot them to pieces before they reach your line of LI you will get slaughtered

    You could try to get some melee troops yourself, just for the first few turns, so you have something to stand up against them with.
  • Frenzy_oneFrenzy_one Junior Member Posts: 3Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I´ll give it a try and update this when I´ve failed or succeeded.

    How do I use sabre cavalry? go around and flank their rifle-ranks or vs other cav?
    And what is the best thing to get against spear levys? I´m trying to play as modern as possible :)

    and does the rifle unit gets better or will they always be smashed by melee ones?
  • NoodleMeisterNoodleMeister Senior Member Posts: 242Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Sabre cav is for cutting up infantry. Good for flanking enemy lines, not so good against other cav. And for killing spear levy, I think that regular line infantry is enough to do the job. Spear levy aren't really that effective, and their only good trait is being decent against cav, but they are far from superior in melee. The kachi troops are the ones you should watch out for. :)
    "The will to conquer all else outside your own self. That is, ambition in its purest form."
  • Frenzy_oneFrenzy_one Junior Member Posts: 3Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    One yari ki, yari kachi and a few spear levys has torn my armies apart. I did try and put in some extra spear levies at the start and it worked out fine. Especially keeping one or two in reserve and assaulting their rifle ranks when they commit to mine and then I get the chance to move my units more freely. Okey, yes I built a few sabres as anti-cavs first but realised now that they aren´t made for that at all! :D
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yes, use those spear levies for both anti-cav and meatshield actions. Tie down the infantry and shoot them to pieces with flanking fire. Hammer and anvil to finish them off.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:

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  • hypnofroghypnofrog Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Ok if it's in the very early stages of the game your army should be mostly spear levies with a dash of w/e you want as support. WHY? because to win you can just rush their 2-3 front line men with your levies and win. Once you hit the mid to late game you need to micro manage now. You stated that your front line men are getting slaughtered by the enemies Katina men. To counter that use yari cavalry to fight their cavalry and put the front line men in the bushes and keep your melee as your front line WHY? because it VERY easy to stop the enemies cavalry from doing any damage with your cavalry nipping at their heels so them flanking you is solved now to the main fight. So by now your cavalry are engaged with the enemies cavalry 1v1 and your melee is face to face with their melee this is WHEN you bring out the front line men from the sides to side line A)the enemy melee in the middle if your melee is loosing or B) the enemies front line men in the back FROM the bushes where you're hiding because you have terrain advantage which is a HUGE deal.
  • CartzCartz Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    The problem is the perceived superiority of firearms against the melee infantry. Remember that Yari Kachi and Katana Kachi are essentially the best defensive and offensive (respectively) melee units in the game.

    You think that your line infantry will cut up melee troops like they did in ETW, but it isn't the case. Early line infantry units are horribly inaccurate, with I'd say 1 in 5 men scoring a kill per volley. They are also horrible reloaders, so maybe 2 volleys before the melee units close. They also do not have bayonets, so once those yaris and katanas get in close its literally well trained samurai vs ETW militia equivilants...

    Levy infantry is even worse. They should only be relied upon when they are behind the walls in a seige. And even then only to provide harassing fire as the enemy advances. They shouldn't be expected to hold a wall.

    Early game, as someone else said, you really need a core army of Spear Levy or Yari Kachi. Only use your line infantry to provide flanking fire from behind or beside your spears. Tie up their rifle infantry with your spears. Use your generals Rally and Inspire abilities to keep your men's morale up. Basically, the strat that the AI beat you with? Do that.

    If you really want to go rifles only, your priority should be securing a blacksmith province. Once you secure a blacksmith, upgrade it to a gunsmith and pair it with a training camp->firing range. This should about double the base accuracy of your line infantry, pair that with a foreign veteran so you can train troops to increase their reload rate (and pick perks that buff reload or accuracy) and rush the kneel fire upgrade.

    With those upgrades, you get twice as many men landing hits (from the accuracy upgrades) with twice the effective unit strength firing at once (from kneel fire). When that first volley kills ~40 Yari Kachi instead of ~10, and a second full volley fires before they close, you'll notice enemy morale drop a bit. Usually the first unit that got in range will take volleys from a few of your units, and it will break almost instantly.

    Bonus points for using a few sharpshooter units as a screening force to harass their flanks before they even get close to your main line.

    You can execute all of that by about turn 40-50 on normal if you rush it. After that, their melee troops will be ready to break before they ever get into your lines. You'll only need one or two melee units to deal with cavalry.
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