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Shogun Total War 2 Matchup games are fail

LoraxLorax Junior MemberPosts: 2Registered Users
I took the liberty of finally diving into the online aspect of Shogun Total War 2. Namely match made battles for the avatar conquest. I really found the idea of it to be fantastic, however as I started to play all it did was frustrate me. Here I will point out why.

I only own Shogun Total War 2, and some of the DLCs so have access to a few extra units, i've done some avatar battles with friends before have unlocked territories. They were fun and full on competitive. So I thought hey, lets face off against others, aka strangers open the spectrum of competition.

So I basically end up being matched up constantly against people who have the expansion and my swords and spears and arrows and basic musket men stand no chance against the teams full of firearms. So what's the point? Why does the match making system not separate the non-expansion vs the expansion. There is really no way to beat the people who have the expansion. So why bother? That kind of system is just counter-intuitive. It really is pay to win, or pay to compete.

I should not be forced to buy the expansion to play online in a competitive nature. There are tonnes of other people who didn't buy the expansion because we do not WANT all the stupid guns. The whole firearm thing is what made me HATE empire total war. I don't want a game full of guns, I want real 1200-1400 samurai. Swords, bows, arrows, spears, naginatas, and all the weapons the samurai and ninja used. For me, and i'm sure i'm not alone by forcing us into guns you are completely destroying the fun of the game. I am sure many enjoy guns and that's fine, let them have it, all I want is to not be forced into in multiplayer. I think it's a real failing on CA's behalf to not give this to us and in the end will only stop me playing online unless i'm playing with friends who are also like me and don't want guns.

That's my BIGGEST gripe. I also hate the notion of these "capture" points that give buffs. Honestly all it does is force the battle to points instead of letting me use my creative skill and cunning to defeat my enemy in open field. You could say it adds some strategy to the fight, but it really takes more strategy away then it adds. It forces you into points of battle, instead of allowing me freedom to ambush or trap my enemy in a way I want. Another disappointment in my eyes.

All in all online is fun with friends, apart from that I hate it. Feel free to flame away, this is just my honest opinion about how I perceive and feel about the online portion of shogun total war 2. I don't think they are bad for everyone, I am sure many enjoy these aspects and just as many that don't. I could live with the forced capture points but the pitting my normal shogun 2 vs expansion shogun 2 is the rot that killed it for me.

Thanks for reading and hopefully you appreciate my honest feedback.
Post edited by Lorax on

Comments

  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    untick the mixed avatar button and you don't have to fight FOTS players
    Fear God, Honor King
  • LoraxLorax Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    so what you're saying is im a new who raged for nothing, cool. foot in mouth much.
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    :)

    On an aside the capture points are good. Seems that there are a lot of players who prefer to use their uncreative skills and camp the back corner with artillery on small unit sizes the moment the dojos disappear.

    s2 armies are very competitive against FOTS armies they just have to be structured differently. Loads of cavalry, archers with extended range, or otherwise taking a mix of cav and melee should be more than enough to take down a FOTS skirmish army.

    TW has never been pay to win - after 1600+ hours in the MP I have never seen an army that couldn't be beaten with the standard s2 units. DLC is an extra garnish, not the core of the game, it can just be a little intimidating when you run into DLC units for the first time whose capabilities you don't fully understand. You need to do a few battles vs FOTS armies before you figure out whats what - don't just post up here the moment you have a couple of bad battles. Fight through and figure out what you're doing before you flag something as a balance issue.
    RedStag
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    s2 armies are very competitive against FOTS armies
    yep just ask belle
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    for me only fots art is overpowered especialy vs s2 avatars, game should add a sistem that dont let fots players use art vs s2 players.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,001Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    If you are playing against an experienced FOTS player with good veterans, winning with a vanilla Shogun 2 army can be very difficult. It is not by any means impossible, but you are most certainly at a disadvantage. Belle is a great player, and is quite adept at taking down FOTS armies, but some of the games she has posted have been against subpar FOTS players with subpar veterans. There are times when it is much more difficult to win. With that said, it is a very interesting challenge and can be a lot of fun. Winning with vanilla Shogun 2 is very rewarding
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    The only thing that S2 really has over the FoTS armies is their bows with 175/200 range other than that they don't have squat really. A good build controlled by a good FoTS player will always have the edge vs a good S2 player no matter what build really.
  • Thorien KellThorien Kell Senior Member Posts: 1,087Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    It's not just that - nature of fight is different, you have to rely on tons of katana cav +mindless charge or bows that keep distance - it's just not my style. I like to fight with similar equipped player and outwit 'em with good strategy /unit selection. I'll fight FotS players when I buy FotS - if ever. It's not about the game /I know it's good - I hate early gun /arty period, I never really like napoleon or empire games. I's all about cold steel, charges and heart of a warrior when I'm concerned.
  • Colonel MallardColonel Mallard Senior Member Posts: 1,044Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Lorax wrote: »
    so what you're saying is im a new who raged for nothing, cool. foot in mouth much.
    No. If you don't want to fight modern armies you don't have to. Furthermore, they are entirely beatable, you just need to adjust your tactics. No, it isn't perfect, but playing well can bag you a victory with relative ease, despite their "advantage". However hard that may be to accept, it is true; adapt, or die. Or untick the mixed avatars button...
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it...

    "If at first you don't succeed, you fail."

    "All I know is that my gut says maybe" - President Average of the Neutral Planet

    Total War:Barbarian Invasion 2:The Invadening
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    The only thing that S2 really has over the FoTS armies is their bows with 175/200 range other than that they don't have squat really. A good build controlled by a good FoTS player will always have the edge vs a good S2 player no matter what build really.

    we assuming the game is a 1v1 or a team game? cuz in team games a S2 army is always welcomed.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Well the only thing that I can see being welcomed is one or two units the S2 armies have to offer because FoTS dominates in everything really except for bows, so I see no point in using a S2 build. The only time I see one being played really is just for fun and a challenge, but you would be only hurting yourself in a competitive match that you wanna win using a S2 army vs a FoTS army.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited April 2012
    Oh, odd, so far I seen a friend use S2(no dlc units) and continuously/mostly defeat FOTS armies because he says FOTS armies are very small, its not so hard to handle. Though could be because of most players aren't that good.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    The skill of people that play this game is rather low. :/

    Comparing price and stats of FoTS units to S2 units FoTS wins hands down, anyone should be able to see that and that tells you CA never had any intention of balancing them to go against each other on an even scale.
  • IndyprideIndypride Senior Member Posts: 1,001Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yeah in my experience a lot of FOTS players are not the best. Like I said, it is entirely possible to win against them. But FOTS gun armies definitely have a leg up, expecially if the player knows what they are doing.
    What I havent seen actually is an FOTS melee rush build vs a Shogun 2 build. I have a feeling FOTS might still have an advantage because Shogitai and Katana Kachi have such high stats, although I believe they are a good bit more expensive than Shogun 2 units as well.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    The Shogitai at same cost vs a S2 Nodachi or Katana Sam will win always because the Shogitai have 150 men per unit while ND and kata sams have just 120 men per unit. You only need 3 Shogitai in a melee build anyway because 3 of them with atleast 6 strong cav backed up by a couple of line gunners will roll over any S2 build. FoTS mounted gunners are what really do it in for the S2 builds most of time though.
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    Yeah but the morale on the fots melee units is horrible, they cost more, they don't get the kind of unit abilities that the s2 rush armies get and their best units, the shogetai are capped at 3 - yari ki are also capped at 4. s2 bows will thump fots ones and outrange all the gun units in a FOTS skirmish build and the rush units available to an s2 player are much cheaper and can be fielded in greater numbers (samurai units mixed with yari ashigaru, loan swords etc). s2 retainers and general abilities are also for the most part better than the FOTS ones.

    So far as I am concerned its down to whoever uses their army best on the day.
    RedStag
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    I wouldn't call anywhere 12 to 14 morale on the shogitai horrible and yes that's all you need just 3 of them because the katana kachi aren't needed. And like I said shogitai vs a nodachi or katana sam at the same cost even with their retainers the shogitai will win always 1vs1.

    Yari Ki are capped at 4 but that hardly matters because you don't need 4 of them anyway... I never play with 4 of them only 3 tops. Like I said it's the gun cav of fots that really ruin most of the s2 builds.

    And yes I already stated that s2 bows are better and anyone can see that but that hardly matters much when fots dominates in the cav and guns and their melee is abit better compared to s2 units. Don't forget those bows of vetted s2 are expensive and it really depends on the situation if they are able to pay out their worth or not... in most cases I've seen they don't or only break even.

    A s2 player can bring the numbers but numbers won't win you the match alone, especially when you're up against a fots player that overall has stronger units for their cost compared to the s2 units.

    You can't deny the fact that fots has alot more better costing units compared to s2 units and that alone is a nice advantage. If two players who are pretty much equally skilled played against each other many matches in a row with one using fots and the other using s2 my money would always go on the fots player winning most of the matches.
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