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Adorbs

BEars should cost more

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Comments

  • Colonel MallardColonel Mallard Senior Member Posts: 1,044Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    There are many different choices for people to make and for advanced players the diversity in the line units really allows you to pick and choose the type of army that you want and to optimise it best in a way that suits you.

    I am a etc....

    That is pretty convincing; It's nice to see somebody who is trying to prove a point, rather than win a verbal duel. I do come up against a lot of line spammers, perhaps some line units (such as red bears) are made to be good against balanced armies with melee and line components; mix a couple into your line and it won't just dies once in melee. Maybe there are some units which are meant to be used against vanilla avatars.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it...

    "If at first you don't succeed, you fail."

    "All I know is that my gut says maybe" - President Average of the Neutral Planet

    Total War:Barbarian Invasion 2:The Invadening
  • exorgistis77exorgistis77 Senior Member Posts: 1,309Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    whats wrong with the bears? bears are .. bears ! game is fine.. Only issue is artillery not because its unbeatable but because it creates and gives reason to campers spoiling our fun of the game.Guns not firing also sometimes even when targeted is an issue..

    Apart from these 2 rather important issues i find the game and the challenge it presents excellent and quite balanced .I would agree with some of the magnificent players giving opinion before me namely cat , bane and others .Bears are exactly what they r supposed to be and nothing more.. or less .. Azures and tourtouise are nice little tools while myself i prefer bringing fewer but more serious guns into play..
    Zarganis
  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    armies have limitations for example i figured out my armies limitation is no more then facing a guy who has a army of 2000, and i even vs a guy who brought almost 3000 men, all vanilla, mainly black tort
    spamming is a problem, and some units do need the cap for them, i rather see my men die to something different once a while, it's so easy to rush people because their armies are poor units, which makes spamming useless, but playing the game against the same thing over and over and over, get boring, pricing doesn't need changing, just something to make other units more appealing, like imp/sho inf is now
    Fear God, Honor King
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited April 2012
    armies have limitations for example i figured out my armies limitation is no more then facing a guy who has a army of 2000, and i even vs a guy who brought almost 3000 men, all vanilla, mainly black tort
    spamming is a problem, and some units do need the cap for them, i rather see my men die to something different once a while, it's so easy to rush people because their armies are poor units, which makes spamming useless, but playing the game against the same thing over and over and over, get boring, pricing doesn't need changing, just something to make other units more appealing, like imp/sho inf is now
    First off the way you started by talking about your armies limitations is forever going to make me think that you're trying to manipulate the armies so that there is no counter to yours.
    Second I have no idea which side of the argument you are on, the post is about black bears you're complaining about black tort armies. the post wants a price increase you want a cap.
  • the bourgeoisiethe bourgeoisie Senior Member Posts: 625Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    well look at it this way
    i rather a cap over a price increase
    and every army has limitations, not saying that my army shouldn't be able to wipe clean that amount of me, i am saying that the cheapness of units causes any army, i mean any army to faulter under such huge numbers, even guns, so placing a cap on units would make people mostly bring lets say 4 bears + 4 tort + 4 azure etc etc,at least the cost and the numbers won't be so high that people don't bring the unit and also people might think humm, other units are more appealing then just this bears capped, so lets say imp inf would look more attractive etc etc, the more expensive unit.
    i disagree with the increase on price, so i put my input and said maybe instead of the price, have a cap
    Fear God, Honor King
  • MoscMosc Member Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    And i disagree with these "good" players. Just like how i disagree with them on the Dev Cam issue.

    Problem with Kihetia, Guard infantry and Carbine cavalry is that their counter-parts do their job better and they are more cost effective.

    Vermillion bird force are cheaper and have similar stats that of Kihetia. Problem with carbine cavalry is that Imp Guard Cavalry cost 100 more and have superior stats. Foreign Marines have their range upgrade at level 5 while Guard infantry is at level 9. These problems are similar to the white/black bear one. It's about getting the most bang for your buck.
  • MoscMosc Member Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    80% is fine for me. Like i said, i don't play often. I have between 200- 300 MM games and that includes Shogun 2. I actually had it much higher in shogun 2. For someone who doesn't play often, isn't in a clan and plays solo, I believe I am a good player for being casual. Hell, i now leave small and medium size games and take the lost. I also don't use crutch cam i mean dev cam.

    I haven't cared about "proving" myself to the internet since my Myth 1 & 2/counter-strike/day of defeat days which was over a decade ago.

    But i am excited about Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. I might have to prove myself there.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    Hm, who said any of us using the dev cam? Its too much of a hassle to set up. But yes,Problem with ELITE infantry excluding rines is that they aren't worth using, they must be lvl 9 to get increase range/kneel fire unlike Marines where its a lvl 5 ability. Kihetai with increase range will cost the same amount as a lvl 5 infantre de marine with lower performance. So all in all guard infantry is just a waste really. since you can field marines with better stats and cheaper price. However Bears carry regular rifles, while Imp/shog/elite infantry carry breech rifles which have a faster initial reload time.

    Anyways why bother debating over a game you play so casually? being in a clan doesn't mean squat nor does playing solo. You'll never understand most game quirks if you just play 1v1s/solo campaign.
  • Colonel MallardColonel Mallard Senior Member Posts: 1,044Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Mosc wrote: »
    And i disagree with these "good" players. Just like how i disagree with them on the Dev Cam issue.

    Problem with Kihetia, Guard infantry and Carbine cavalry is that their counter-parts do their job better and they are more cost effective.

    Vermillion bird force are cheaper and have similar stats that of Kihetia. Problem with carbine cavalry is that Imp Guard Cavalry cost 100 more and have superior stats. Foreign Marines have their range upgrade at level 5 while Guard infantry is at level 9. These problems are similar to the white/black bear one. It's about getting the most bang for your buck.
    Vermilion bird use muzzle loading rifles, not breech loading ones, so you can't compare them to kihetai without first reducing their reload by about 20. Carbine cav are not very useful right now, that is true. Guard infantry are for when you want more than just the marines for your elite infantry. Marines are all capped to one, so if you want more elite line, you need guards. Your guards don't need to be 150 range, you could just field them vanilla, and get a very good unit of line. Sure, a 150 range unit will probably beat it, but it will cost way more, and you could just swamp it with numbers.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it...

    "If at first you don't succeed, you fail."

    "All I know is that my gut says maybe" - President Average of the Neutral Planet

    Total War:Barbarian Invasion 2:The Invadening
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Win ratio means nothing in my view - playing hours are a more reliable measure. Most good players tend to have about 800+ hours clocked and win ratios varying from 70% and up. Even then there are lots of players with even lower win ratios like tree who can still give you a run for your money and have a good record in tournaments vs guys with 90% or higher win rates. Everyone with few hundred hours is potentially dangerous.

    I have no gripes with the dev cam; I've played with and without it, I just wish they'd put it in the options menu so its easy for anyone to access without having tor read the forums. Or for CA to simply fix the camera height on the regular camera.

    Anyway I wouldn't tinker with many of the current ranged units, although I will say that the Kihetai are fairly useless, along with almost all of the skirmishsh units with rifles and could do with a price switch. The line units though are best left alone.
    RedStag
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    And I disagree with a casual gamer who considers himself good because he maintains an 80% ratio in MM, which is nothing really and also says "to take notes a good player is speaking" lol. Really?

    And what dose the dev cam have to do with any of this? O.o

    If all those gun units were balanced most people would be bringing the same ones that they do right now anyway...
  • MoscMosc Member Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I shouldn't need to play 800 hours in MP ( I have about 570 between MP and SP) or in tournaments that only a handful of people play to prove anything. I beaten my share of top 100 players in MM but am sure people will make another excuse. Is it hard to believe that someone can be as good without needing to jump through the same hoops as some of you? I know the "hardcore" don't like it when a no named casual can do just as good with less time invested.

    Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth 2: Soulblighter play very similar to total war games in tactics and control minus the morale system. So I have a ton of experience if you wanna go down that road. I was ranked top 10 in Myth 2 leaderboards. Bungie actually maintained their leaderboards and ran tournaments. Go look up those games and maybe even play them. If one plays a lot of real time tactics games then its easy for one to excel in another one without investing as much time. Same can be said if one plays many first person shooter games. But i do suck at Starcraft 2. Even tho i played RTS games since the first C&C and Warcraft.

    If 80% means nothing in MM then so does 90% or more. So that means MM in general is useless when it comes to win ratio. Which also includes the leaderboard since dropping a game can cause the loser to not get a lost on their records. So where do win ratios matter? In these tournaments that a very small % people play? lol. The only time a tournament would matter is when its sponsored and ran by CA with many players in it, not a handful. So lets break it down. MM doesn't matter and those independent tournaments that often have the same people playing in them also don't matter. So over all, none of that matters in the grand scheme of things. So that ends the E-Peen discussion.

    As for different rifles well, what really matters is first volley and range. More often then not, getting the first shot off can cause your opponents lines to bug out and get stuck trying to reform. Allowing you (or them) to get off a ton of free shots. Add in the Line of sight problems on top of it and one begins to ask, who cares about the different reloads on rifles when you can bug out the other line easily with the first volley. Artillery are the best unit to make linemen bug out. Then you can also run into problems where your linemen won't even fire regardless if they are in range and have a clear shot. I know i won and lost games due to these bugs. These bugs are here to stay because i don't see CA fixing them anytime soon. Setting your men to guard doesn't fix the problem.

    Why do i debate about a game i play casual ? Because i do like this game and when i do play, i don't want to waste my time on a bunch of bull. From buggy game mechanics to MM problems (playing in a small size when it said large). Those are the reasons why i rotate this game in and out with my other ones. If this game didn't have as much bull as a call of duty game then i would play it a lot more.

    The only person here who i agree with on some of his points was Marshal Suchet.

    I said what i had to say and see no further reason to keep posting in this discussion since its leading no where. So this will be my last one. If you got something to say or ask, then pm me. This thread has been derailed enough.

    Edit: Wow, i didn't notice i wrote a wall of text lol.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    570 is already hardcore... tho win %s is useful for judging honest players. If I were to look at AMP's record, I wouldn't doubt I will have a pain in the **** playing vs him. Saying Leaderboards don't matter because of dropping is true but that doesn't mean you won't find some strong players in the top 200. Just because most of the "top" players are droppers doesn't necessarily mean all of the records of top players don't hold any credibility.

    Not everyone uses line armies, however most of us acknowledges that bears aren't the most cost effective units in the game, but you keep disagreeing despite more than 2 people continuously say otherwise after giving rational arguments.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Mosc wrote: »
    IThe only time a tournament would matter is when its sponsored and ran by CA with many players in it, not a handful.
    As for different rifles well, what really matters is first volley and range. More often then not, getting the first shot off can cause your opponents lines to bug out and get stuck trying to reform.
    Just there you highlighted two subjects that would make a far better post than this and you even noted the most important thing is the first volley not the unit, so why complain about BB when using other units is more effective if you get the first volley.
    as for the rest of your post TL:DR
    edit TL: DR
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    An 80% ratio in MM means nothing or I should say doesn't help back up your claim that you are a good player. An 80% ratio is easy to get in MM especially with a game like TW where the overall skill lvl of players is very low. If you are a decent to good player and an honest player who doesn't dodge or drop to avoid losses when you're the host you should be close to the 90% mark or higher in MM. A LOT of those so called top players in the leaderboards aren't honest players, many dodge and drop avoid losses to get where they are at, it's quite sad really.

    having 570 hrs is enough to have your feet wet in the game if it's all MP, but that alone doesn't mean much of anything because someone could have over 1,000 hours and still suck. I've played against quite a few people in MM with well over 1k MM games with around an 80% ratio and rolled over them. I consider someone good when they are consistent with a high ratio and making a name for himself/herself by beating some of the already well known players, normally that's how someone gets known or they are playing in tournaments and doing well in them or winning them. What other games you are currently playing or have played in the past doesn't mean much, just like how I've been playing TW off and on since the first STW, that only helps so much at the rate you learn in the latest TW. I've played most of the TWs, Warcraft2, Starcraft1, Dawn of War2, World in Conflict, Total Annihilation, Company of Heroes, Red Alert, Populous the Beginning, Homeworld1 & 2, Stronghold series, and the list goes on... and I was good at many of the games I've played for awhile, but that's not gonna make me a good player in a fresh game, only help improve the rate at which I learn.

    It depends what tournaments you're talking about, some of them have a lot of top players that play in them. The A1C had 128 players and alot of top players in it, I'd hardly call that small. An honest ratio in MM dose say something about someones skill, not 100%, but dose give you a good idea oh how good they probably are along with someone who is winning in tournaments constantly or always doing well in them. It would be nice if CA held big tournaments and offered prizes, but I seriously doubt you would see all these so called phantom good players come out of no where and start owning all the already known MP competitive players. I would definitely put money on that, especially at the matches I am getting in MM, it's a joke.

    The things you are calling bull are nothing compared to some of the current issues we have right now and the issues we had in the past. For example... bringing up the bears and the gap between them and azure dragons, that's nothing! The gap between bears and imperial/shogunate infantry is even greater, yet you mention bears? You may not know this by the sounding of it you're a heavy line user, but line builds aren't the strongest. And yes of course the bugs should be fixed and the bugs are more important to fix over adjusting all units prices to match 100% with each other in effectiveness when people mostly likely will be using the same ones anyway.
  • JohnnyCryptonJohnnyCrypton Member Posts: 30Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    LOL amp... this is just casual multiplayer game, nothing more. Only tournaments you can get in probably are just fun tournaments for no real money or anything, it's all just fun. There are not real pros in this game... hmm, maybe max 30 in whole world playing eachother for respect? :D, if u asked 99,9% players nobody knows anyone who is how u call it "pro", winning tournaments, money and ****. So if u got 80% winning and you are not a guy who dodges games and using plugout, you are probably better than 80% of community and you should be called decent player at least.

    Edit: I would really love to see stats of players which u played revolver cav against on your videos... I am sure you are very good player, but players who u played against just seems very very bad. If u played against someone as good as u are i would be convinced. Every highskilled player can win with ultra weird strategy against some noob :)
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I never said anything about pro players because the real definition of a pro player is someone who plays for money and as you said there are no TW sponsored tournaments for real money, just friendly competitive tournaments. That doesn't mean though that those playing in them wouldn't win a TW tournament for money if there ever was one for real money. :)

    And yes if you are someone who has an 80% win ration in MM who doesn't dodge or pull the plug you probably are a decent player, but not a "good" player. Most definitely not someone who should be telling people "to take notes a good player is speaking". :)

    I just started my revolver cavalry warpath, so I haven't come across anyone "really" good yet as there aren't many "real" good players out there to face in MM, but I would be happy to accept any challenges by people who think they can handle it no problem. :)

    I only played against one decent player so far with my revolver cavalry spam and of course I didn't hit the fraps key. :/ I have the replay, but a replay without any commentating is worse than my vids of liveplay.
  • JohnnyCryptonJohnnyCrypton Member Posts: 30Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Well i dont think i can handle it no problem, but i am pretty sure i can try. :) So u got 1st chalenge over here
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    You and Bane so far. I'll be free this weekend to play at whatever time. :)
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    can ya send me the replays?
  • JohnnyCryptonJohnnyCrypton Member Posts: 30Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Allright... i got ****d... :D. One game i totally screwed and other two i felt like winner, but then my units just started to run away because i lost my general. I still think that player on my skill lvl couldnt win with this strat against me. AMP needs someone better to play against. ^^
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    we're off topic here can we create a separate 'AMP takes all comers to prove the worth of revolver cav thread' and stop bumping an otherwise dead thread.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    ^ already is one
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