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FOTS AI never uses castle doors.... why?

III IDOLIZE IIIIII IDOLIZE III Senior MemberPosts: 118Registered Users
edited June 2012 in Fall of the Samurai
OK,
So if any one has extensively played the FOTS campaign, you would have realized in all of your castle defense sieges, when the AI is attacking, they refuse to either A) sabotage castle doors with ninjas before hand... B) burn down doors in the siege game, allowing access to their military to attack through them... or C)Send units up a wall, capturing a door anywhere in the castle.
All the AI ever does, is climb walls climb walls climb walls.
It gets very boring after awhile, and completely defeats the purpose of the FOTS castle's, with their intricate wall and door scenario, as well as the ability to place units above the doors, which i have yet to ever use in a defense siege game.
So all i ask is, why does the AI refuse to use doors in siege battles?
Post edited by III IDOLIZE III on

Comments

  • RaduRadu Senior Member Posts: 421Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    ummm... this was the AI behavior from the original campaign too... Even if you have broken walls, the AI always climbs. Kind of anitclimatic since you know you never have to worry about soldiers surging inside through the gates...
  • StevenOStevenO Senior Member Posts: 912Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I seem to have the same experience with the regular TWS2 campaign. I'm not going to complain because the AI doesn't like to bust down the doors because then I don't need to fix them later. I suspect a reason the AI likes to climb walls it so it can avoid those killing zones that are doorways. It seems to me the only time the AI uses doors is when they already control them which happens if I get units a level above the AI. Doors are avoided because a single unit can do a much better job holding the breach then it can trying to stop multiple scaling attempts.
  • Tyer032392Tyer032392 Senior Member FloridaPosts: 4,596Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    In the original game, I've seen the AI use the doors if they are open, and or will burn them down. But that only happened when I didn't have any defensive troops near it. I think it might have something to do with actually having to wait while the gate burns to the ground. Which is another thing i wish CA would fix, is actually have troops who do if garrisoned inside a burning building.
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  • RumpullpusRumpullpus Senior Member Posts: 1,216Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    never see the AI use gates and why would they? its just a choke point that IMHO is easly avoided. its about the only thing that i really hate about shogun2. theres still spidermen :/

    i guess we will have to keep waiting if we want to see some PROPER siege battles.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    They want to avoid chokepoints, fair enough. Yet it does seem logical in some cases to burn down the gates and rush in when they're unguarded, but the AI never does that. I'd call that an omission.
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  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Posts: 7,075Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited May 2012
    Partially wrong :D When AI routs inside your castle, they use the gates to escape :P
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  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    Partially wrong :D When AI routs inside your castle, they use the gates to escape :P

    They wouldn't do that if they could climb down.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
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  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Posts: 7,075Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited May 2012
    They wouldn't do that if they could climb down.

    They never climb down in my battles. They run across my entire castle just to exit through the front door.
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  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    They never climb down in my battles. They run across my entire castle just to exit through the front door.

    When a unit routes while climbing it should be allowed to climb down (which it can't). I was joking about the fact that they refuse to go through gates normally and use them only when routing. If they were serious about it, they would climb down and boycott the cowardly use of gates. lol
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
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  • MustachewarfareMustachewarfare Senior Member Posts: 1,090Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    lol i abused this AI behaviour so much in my campaign battle.....
  • GuardianOfBlindGuardianOfBlind Senior Member Posts: 947Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I am kind of divided on this one.

    From one side, it is clearly a bug, AI should be using doors when they are available, it can get troops faster into castle through doors and would not loose units from climbing/falling.

    From other point of view, it would be soooo easy to defend castle if they were actually using doors. I would in fact smack the doors open myself for them and then kill anyone who comes in.

    Right now it it challanging cause when AI has over 2000 troops, they climb in like ants from all sides and you can't cover all the spots. If they rushed through doors like in Medieval 2 or Rome TW, it would be easy to mass all the defenders near the few gates that castle has.

    In conclusion I think small army would benefit from using gates cause they wouldn't loose men to the attrition of climbing walls, while large force would be best at rushing in as many troops as possible at once from all sides, like it does now. This shouldn't be too hard to code in.
  • StevenOStevenO Senior Member Posts: 912Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I really wish I could send my units back DOWN a wall. My primary concern here is for my Ninja troops which I can send up a high, undefended wall, capture a tower, but then get cut down because they can't retreat the way they came. I'm really looking at the I shaped forts with the "castle" and often a tower on one end but the gates all at the other end so getting out will mean running through the enemy's entire army.
  • RaduRadu Senior Member Posts: 421Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    They never climb down in my battles. They run across my entire castle just to exit through the front door.

    that conveniently open to allow hardworking enemy forces to withdraw to the camp and have a nice cup of tea.
  • MaximusdecimusmeridiusMaximusdecimusmeridius Senior Member Posts: 210Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I was really surprised defending a damaged castle in ROTS recently to find that an AI unit came through the gate to attack me. I think all the walls were already being climbed (it was a small castle), so maybe that had something to do with it.
  • SchepelSchepel Senior Member Posts: 1,192Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I was really surprised defending a damaged castle in ROTS recently to find that an AI unit came through the gate to attack me. I think all the walls were already being climbed (it was a small castle), so maybe that had something to do with it.

    The AI does use gates. A lot, in fact. Once a gate is captured, the rest will come through. However, gates are not specifically targeted. Can't blame the AI on that count, as I tend to climb walls as well. Gates are a horrible chokepoint generally best avoided.
  • III IDOLIZE IIIIII IDOLIZE III Senior Member Posts: 118Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    A combination of both wall climbing and door breaching would be the best tactic to assault a castle with.
    You neither want to be vulnerable bunching up all your men to climb one, 60 foot long wall with men firing at you from above with muskets...
    NOR would you want to be cramped in a doorway fighting your way up a (fairly steep) ramp, with men above you shooting down on your heads.
    YET, a strategic use of both methods would be the best probable way to disorganize your attacker, and the best way to potentially provided the oh-so needed flanking fire in castle sieges that has the moral penalty needed to break siege defenders.
    All i am pointing out, is it is on option in the game, yet the AI does not use it, like it refuses to do many things in the game.
    I get the difficulty in creating an intelligent AI, but, it would be my perfect Shogun 2 fantasy =)
  • Kommandant_VideoKommandant_Video Member Posts: 40Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I would imagine the AI does so to avoid the choke point. The reason that the ability to scale the walls is there is so that you, the player, can take a risky alternative to chokepointing. If the only thing you could do was go in through doors, that would be boring. I think it's also very fun watching men fall down the walls... Heheheh. :D
  • SchepelSchepel Senior Member Posts: 1,192Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    A combination of both wall climbing and door breaching would be the best tactic to assault a castle with.
    You neither want to be vulnerable bunching up all your men to climb one, 60 foot long wall with men firing at you from above with muskets...
    NOR would you want to be cramped in a doorway fighting your way up a (fairly steep) ramp, with men above you shooting down on your heads.
    YET, a strategic use of both methods would be the best probable way to disorganize your attacker, and the best way to potentially provided the oh-so needed flanking fire in castle sieges that has the moral penalty needed to break siege defenders.
    All i am pointing out, is it is on option in the game, yet the AI does not use it, like it refuses to do many things in the game.
    I get the difficulty in creating an intelligent AI, but, it would be my perfect Shogun 2 fantasy =)

    The AI is actually quite good at attacking. It either attacks from as many approaches as possible, or delivers a concentrated attack. Both are effective if not countered well. If the AI would recruit quality over quantity, it would wipe human players off the map without fail.
  • Kommandant_VideoKommandant_Video Member Posts: 40Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I would also like it for the AI to use the doors, as they never do, and so I never get to experience the AI walking up the ramp, getting shot in the back by bows or matchlock units, (Or in FOTS, Riflemen) and being met by melee units... It would be entertaining indeed.
  • Billy RuffianBilly Ruffian Moderator UKPosts: 27,476Registered Users, Moderators
    edited May 2012
    Schepel wrote: »
    The AI is actually quite good at attacking. It either attacks from as many approaches as possible, or delivers a concentrated attack. Both are effective if not countered well. If the AI would recruit quality over quantity, it would wipe human players off the map without fail.

    I think I have a replay of an AI v AI siege (I had a couple of badly damaged units called in as re-inforcement for the defenders), where the AI attacked at one side, which drew all the defenders there, and then launched another attack on the other side. The only problem was that they scaled the walls of a three-tier citadel rather than use the open gates, which gave the defenders time to decimate the first attack and still be able to get in position to beat off the second attack, shooting them down as they climbed over the top of the walls.

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  • AlJabberwockAlJabberwock Moderator Posts: 7,293Moderators, Tech Moderators
    edited May 2012
    Doh!

    You used a nono word...:D
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  • yllbardhyllbardh Senior Member Posts: 403Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    It's funny to see a heavy armoured samurai climb the walls....lol.... they're so strong that besides armour they also tend to have a vast amount of ropes... and some times they're even faster then ninjas.

    Climbing is like swooping, and that's very, very bad.
    I want Illyrian Empire :p
  • SchepelSchepel Senior Member Posts: 1,192Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    yllbardh wrote: »
    It's funny to see a heavy armoured samurai climb the walls....lol.... they're so strong that besides armour they also tend to have a vast amount of ropes... and some times the're even faster then ninjas.

    Climbing is like swooping, and that's very, very bad.

    I love the reference. :D
  • wealthyempirewealthyempire Senior Member USAPosts: 1,051Registered Users
    edited June 2012
    If you take a province and loot it but then don't repair the damage then the province will rebel. It varies somewhat but there's times when some rebel units will go thru the open gates and yet some of them will also climb the walls. It seems that situation is the closest the AI gets to doing it the way that they should.

    Unfortunately the ones that go thru the gate will slowly follow along the castle wall to get to the gate, giving you more time to shoot them.
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