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20k matchmade battles

Gigi10Gigi10 MemberPosts: 39Registered Users
I don't understand why they don't allow you to play 20k battles in matchmade. Instead the highest money you have in matchmade is 14k. I personally think that 20k is much mor fun because the armies are bigger and you can bring a higher variety of units. In 14k it is very difficult to bring a balance army that is also strong. In 14k only spam armies are strong. Instead in 20k spam armies don't work.

I could still play 20k in battlelist ,and I do because it is more fun then lego battles matchmade offers you, but in battlelist I don't earn clan tokens which are important to upgrade my veteran units. But a 20k matchmade battle would be better then a 20k battlelist battle because you would get matched up with players with your same skill level.

I think you should be able to choose what funds you want to play in a matchmade battle. They should make an option like the mix avatar thing which gives you the freedom to choose to do a mix avatar battle or a non mix avatar battle. They should let you choose if you want to play a 5k, 10k, 14k or a 20k battle in matchmade.

Please CA put this option to improve multiplayer experience.
Post edited by Gigi10 on
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Comments

  • Sima Zhong DaSima Zhong Da Senior Member Posts: 532Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    『 In 20k, only armies with high veterancy will work. Nope. They used to have 20k funds at the start of S2, but they took it out. Guess why? And if you are not fielding a good army with 14k, maybe you are just terrible at making a good composition and need to stop using solely high end units.』
    Modern war is conducted against an out-group by powerful people who have an exaggerated opinion of themselves and their degree of morality, are overconfident, often have an illusion of control, enjoy taking risks and are almost always male. - Robert Trivers, Deceit and Self-deception
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    because balance goes out the window in short, look at fots it might just be because I was playing on battle list but no one brings cav. Once upon a time 20K was matchmade default for lvl 10 avatars however in order to play at a high level you need to upgrade your vets beyond what is strictly cost effective for other fund ranges.

    edit: also if you think that just because two people are in the same fund level they're equal skill you've got another thing coming.
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    14k is the natural ceiling for the mm....20k becomes an uber-vetted spam.
    RedStag
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I don't have anything agianst 14k battles but I would like to have the possibility to play a 20k matchmade battle. I would like to choose the fund level i want to play even for matchmade. Sometimes when i search for a match I end up in a 5k battle with small unit size. I don't like this kind of match not because I have uber veterans or because I don't have a strong build but because i want to see a big epic fight.

    By the way people already upgrade their line infantry to level nine for the increase range ability and have highly upgraded cavalry. So i don't see why you would complain about uber veterans in 20k if the already exist in 14k.
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    The only way this could work would be to give players an option to choose what funds level they prefer, and IF both players choose the same level they will be given that instead of what their avatar's level would otherwise dictate.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • Tyer032392Tyer032392 Senior Member FloridaPosts: 4,488Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I do agree that it would help for CA to implement a system which would allow us to choose the type of funds we would like to have, but as it is now, there isn't enough people playing Shogun 2 multiplayer to have that.
    "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. "
  • damadman228damadman228 Senior Member Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    The number of players wouldn't matter if my approach was implemented. Sure if you want to have the same funds level in every match and only play against people who prefer the same funds level, then you have a point.
    This might be helpful for those still playing S2 MP:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=444087

    Also check out this awesome channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/milkandcookiesTW
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    It'd be nice to be able to chose the funds level you play in in MM but the advantage of this in my eyes would be that I could veto out of small fund battles
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    The only way this could work would be to give players an option to choose what funds level they prefer, and IF both players choose the same level they will be given that instead of what their avatar's level would otherwise dictate.

    I think the best thing would be that you get matched up with someone of your same level and with same funds preferance. This way the matches would be balanced and more pleasent to play because you would be playing at the funds you want.
  • Marshal SuchetMarshal Suchet Senior Member Posts: 2,077Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Well, the solution would be for there to be an "enable 20k battles" option for matchmade, so people who really wanted to play those types of games could, but noone should be forced into those type of battles as they would be so dependent on veteran units. Otherwise the remaining battles would range from small-large funds.
    RedStag
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    MM works better when you have a standard, which is quite normal for MM online games, they all have standards. I don't understand why so many wanna see that broken up. If you don't like standard play, which everything really should be balanced around for good gameplay, you have custom battles you can play - the battlelist games.
  • DuckOfDreadDuckOfDread Senior Member Posts: 133Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    MM works better when you have a standard, which is quite normal for MM online games, they all have standards. I don't understand why so many wanna see that broken up. If you don't like standard play, which everything really should be balanced around for good gameplay, you have custom battles you can play - the battlelist games.
    Exactly what he said.
    20000 is not a good option for mm imho. I remember times that I couldn’t even spend all the money for 20000 battlelist game....
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    MM works better when you have a standard, which is quite normal for MM online games, they all have standards. I don't understand why so many wanna see that broken up. If you don't like standard play, which everything really should be balanced around for good gameplay, you have custom battles you can play - the battlelist games.

    Yeah but after a while it gets a bit boring having to always play 14k. I would also like to play 20k at a more competitive level.
    In 20k you can bring a balanced build: cannons, skirmish cav, melee cav, trash line infantry, normal line infantry, elite line infantry, skirmish infantry and even melee infantry. The armies look more realistic it seems like you are actually fighting a real battle.
    Instead in 14k you bring 8 cav and 4 line infantry. That doesn't look very balanced in proportians and very realistic.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Gigi10 wrote: »
    In 20k you can bring a balanced build: cannons, skirmish cav, melee cav, trash line infantry, normal line infantry, elite line infantry, skirmish infantry and even melee infantry

    In no 20k battle have I seen someone with more than 3 cav units, trash units are pointless unless you've brought 3 or 4 units at 2-3k each when you can spam higher quality troops. why bring skirms when you can spam extra range lins? and melee inf is arguably less effective at higher fund levels as people can bring lots of high stats elites who can hold out well.
    In my eyes 20K is the least balanced fund level followed by 5K
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    In no 20k battle have I seen someone with more than 3 cav units, trash units are pointless unless you've brought 3 or 4 units at 2-3k each when you can spam higher quality troops. why bring skirms when you can spam extra range lins? and melee inf is arguably less effective at higher fund levels as people can bring lots of high stats elites who can hold out well.
    In my eyes 20K is the least balanced fund level followed by 5K

    All units can have a purpuse, they don't have to necesarly be killing machines to be useful. Trash units are there just to do die, you can sacrifice them to gain a better advantage position or to waste enemy cannon ammo. Skirms are meant to annoy your oppenent i usually try to put them in forest which is very annoying. Cav is also very strong in 20k just as 14k. I remeber a battle in 20k without dojos enabled where my oppenent spammed tosa rifles and elite infantry and had no cav and he red line camped in the forest. I had a balanced build and i simply took my time to slowly skirmish with him and gain the advantage on his flank. Without the support of cavalry and with no strategy and tattics in his head he just lost miserably.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Gigi10 wrote: »
    All units can have a purpuse, they don't have to necesarly be killing machines to be useful. Trash units are there just to do die, you can sacrifice them to gain a better advantage position or to waste enemy cannon ammo. Skirms are meant to annoy your oppenent i usually try to put them in forest which is very annoying. Cav is also very strong in 20k just as 14k. I remeber a battle in 20k without dojos enabled where my oppenent spammed tosa rifles and elite infantry and had no cav and he red line camped in the forest. I had a balanced build and i simply took my time to slowly skirmish with him and gain the advantage on his flank. Without the support of cavalry and with no strategy and tattics in his head he just lost miserably.
    I really object to you saying trash units have a purpose as it implies that there are occasions where there is a purpose to bringing white bears instead of imperial infantry, with such high funds there is no reason you'd ever need a weak troops since you can typicaly get full size armies even with powerful units.
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    I really object to you saying trash units have a purpose as it implies that there are occasions where there is a purpose to bringing white bears instead of imperial infantry, with such high funds there is no reason you'd ever need a weak troops since you can typicaly get full size armies even with powerful units.

    Try seeing things from a different point a view. Lets say you bring an imperial guard infantry that costs 1280. Suppose that your oppenent brought a cannon and starts shooting at your imperial guard infantry. After a few shoots your imperial guard infantry routes or is so low in number that it do a lot of damage. Looking at your money you lost 1280 for nothing. Instead if you brought a white tiger you would of lost 500. Thats a difference of 1280-500=780. It could be a small difference but might be fatal in the end.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Gigi10 wrote: »
    Try seeing things from a different point a view. Lets say you bring an imperial guard infantry that costs 1280. Suppose that your oppenent brought a cannon and starts shooting at your imperial guard infantry. After a few shoots your imperial guard infantry routes or is so low in number that it do a lot of damage. Looking at your money you lost 1280 for nothing. Instead if you brought a white tiger you would of lost 500. Thats a difference of 1280-500=780. It could be a small difference but might be fatal in the end.

    what if your opponent is smart enough to use auto target and doesn't shoot at white bears? If you're getting tons of trash units either you're not spending all your money or you're getting some super expensive units that can be targeted by a smart player. Either way you're in trouble against any decent player.
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    what if your opponent is smart enough to use auto target and doesn't shoot at white bears? If you're getting tons of trash units either you're not spending all your money or you're getting some super expensive units that can be targeted by a smart player. Either way you're in trouble against any decent player.

    I didn't mean to say that I spam white tigers or white bears and expect to win by miracle. I usually bring a white tiger to attract the fire of the cannons or to waste the first shoot of my opponents line infantry or even I send them in a forest to see if there are any hidden units.
    If you only look at stats you kill the creativity and the fun of the game. In 14k the only kind of tattics you need is cavalry tattics: bring 8 cav and surrond your oppenent. Once you've masterd that you pretty much will always have a chance of winning even against good players. In 20k it seems to me that cavalry isn't the only important thing. You also have to use well your cannons and your infantry.
    I might be wrong if people will discover an overpowered build even for 20k but for know i really don't see any.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Gigi10 wrote: »
    i didn't mean to say that i spam white tigers or white bears and expect to win by miracle. I usually bring a white tiger to attract the fire of the cannons or to waste the first shoot of my opponents line infantry or even i send them in a forest to see if there are any hidden units.
    what if your opponent doesnt shoot white tigers and shoots your valuable troops did you read my post?
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    20k games are the most boring games of the funds. bring your most expensive units... charge.
    5k: micro game
    10k + 14k: micro/macro game difference is just how many units you fielding.
    20k:blob wars gooooo
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    20k games are the most boring games of the funds. bring your most expensive units... charge.
    5k: micro game
    10k + 14k: micro/macro game difference is just how many units you fielding.
    20k:blob wars gooooo

    this guy gets it :)
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    what if your opponent doesnt shoot white tigers and shoots your valuable troops did you read my post?

    What if the valuble troop is out of range of the cannon? What if your valuble troop is in a forest?

    For Crazycat you might not like 20k and im ok with that but i would like to play 20k also on matchmade. Why shouldn't you allow that? Maybe there are other people that prefer 20k over 14k. The game is completly different in 20k and after months and months of playing 14k im starting to get a bit bored of it.
  • TheCrazyCatTheCrazyCat Banned Posts: 1,502Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    lowering the funds to 14k was to help the newbs understand that over vetting your units has consequences and fielding such units, will result in a small army prone to being rushed. 20k just blind sights players thinking, you can have EVERYTHING. while 14k and lower, limits you to the necessities.
    Though I find FOTS to be boring, but I dont see how changing the funds to ultra will make it fun.
  • AMPAMP Senior Member Posts: 1,225Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Once again the purpose of MM is getting everyone playing with a standard that the game is balanced around. The last thing you want to do is start throwing in custom options which are for custom games (battlelist games) in MM especially when you only have so many people playing MM to begin with. It's bad enough people can screw you over with different unit sizes when the game is only balanced around one unit size. You don't see in other RTS/RTT games that have MM the option to set whatever settings you like to search for opponents looking for the same settings and there is a reason behind that.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    if you keep your elites out of cannon range I'll walk forwards take all the dojos move my cannons forward and now we're in the same position except that I've got +20 reload and stuff on my guys and you HAVE to attack.
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    AMP wrote: »
    Once again the purpose of MM is getting everyone playing with a standard that the game is balanced around. The last thing you want to do is start throwing in custom options which are for custom games (battlelist games) in MM especially when you only have so many people playing MM to begin with. It's bad enough people can screw you over with different unit sizes when the game is only balanced around one unit size. You don't see in other RTS/RTT games that have MM the option to set whatever settings you like to search for opponents looking for the same settings and there is a reason behind that.
    To some extent you do, its possible to veto out of maps for starcraft and common in shooters to be able to vote for a map. Ultimately though the ability to force unit sizes is an exploit of CA trying to help people with bad computers and having different battle sizes is an attempt to balance how you have to level your avatar. This would be the first time that a setting is added to purely give people choice in MM
  • TheDukeTheDuke Banned Posts: 365Banned Users
    edited May 2012
    unit size doesnt cause lag issues. Contrary to popular belief.
  • Gigi10Gigi10 Member Posts: 39Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    if you keep your elites out of cannon range I'll walk forwards...

    Then we would have a nice fight in the middle :)
  • dark as silverdark as silver Senior Member Posts: 1,645Registered Users
    edited May 2012
    Gigi10 wrote: »
    Then we would have a nice fight in the middle :)

    I thought your elites where way back, if your white tigers are going up against my imperial inf you're going to have a bad time. If your elites are moving up I'll target them with my cannons.
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