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How come empire is only 3/4 completed

GRIM_CARNAGEGRIM_CARNAGE Junior MemberPosts: 2Registered Users
edited September 2012 in Empire: Total War
After completing another campaign on Shogun 2,I was feeling a bit nostalgic so I decided to go back and play Empire, to see if I can finish off my Prussian campaign, I quickly realised this is impossible.
Here are some main issues that I can name off the top of my head which still haven't been resolved.

Battle issues
-Cavalry do not charge properly
-Men still have trouble lining up and firing (pathfinding issues)
-Shrapnel shot does not effect the troops but goes over there heads
-Puckle guns are still ineffective
-Sea battle AI is still stupid

Campaign Issues
-game starts to hang when during the turn cycle it gets to the Ottomans and or Russians
-Multiplayer Campaign still does not work

As Steam has posted Empire is still selling copies at a record rate, some of these issues have been resolved in Shogun2, so I was wondering why hasn't anybody came up with a patch or at least a modification addressing these issues for Empire. Please feel free to add to this discussion and any other bug(s) that have not yet been addressed.
Post edited by GRIM_CARNAGE on


  • The KestrelThe Kestrel Senior Member Posts: 850Registered Users
    edited September 2012
    - Cavalry are utterly lethal, especially on larger unit settings. (On ultra they become a force to be reckoned with, but on small muskets are able to draw into lines and fire more efficiently.)
    - I haven't had this issue. Are you giving attack orders, or are you lining troops up and allowing them to fire at will? The latter works much better.
    - You have to manually aim shrapnel shot, as it uses the same targeting as other types of artillery, but obviously works quite differently. Target the ground just in front of the hapless enemy regiment you wish to turn into a fine red mist.
    - Yeah, well, they're an experimental weapon type that was never really used on a large scale, aren't they?
    - Yes. Unfortunately for me, so am I in naval battles, so it kinda balances out for me, especially with those insane bonuses on VH/VH.

    - Tis unfortunate, but we must cope. This game is perhaps the only one I would put up with this stuff for.
    - It's a beta for Napoleon.
  • GRIM_CARNAGEGRIM_CARNAGE Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited September 2012
    -What I mean with the Cavalry is that they do not charge into the men as they do in shogun, they instead just run into the line pause and start to melee, especially since the elephants seem to complete there charge they could easily fix this
    -Shrapnel shot I aim manually also still gets same effect especially in custom battles.
    I just dont understand why they don't get the unit stats for shogun2 and patch them into an empire update.
  • The KestrelThe Kestrel Senior Member Posts: 850Registered Users
    edited September 2012
    -The cavalry DO do extra damage due to the impetus of their charge (how many ****phones or repetitions of "do" can I use?). There simply aren't fancy animations to show it. In Shogun 2 we get the eye-candy of soldiers scattered like nine pins. There is also my personal favorite you see occasionally in which the charging cavalryman throws his spear into the chest of a footman and yanks it out again as he passes:eek:. In Empire, we see a similar spike in casualties in any regiment to receive a charge, but the charge has no animation. The charging individuals merely retain the pugilistic pose they adopt when given charge orders, and the enemy dies on contact. Zoom in; this is especially apparent in infantry charges. It happens the same way for cavalry though.

    Would I like to see some troops stagger without fatal injury like in Napoleon? Yes, but the currrent system works, as the line buckles and suffers additional casualties.

    -It is difficult if not impossible for code to be used from game-to-game since they modify the engine slightly each time. Furthermore, the FotS cannons fire in arcs, not along (relatively) straight trajectories, so the aim would be off anyway.

    EDIT: LOL; censor got me. I was definitely trying to corrupt the youth with my uncouth tongue!
  • LSDLSD Senior Member Posts: 861Registered Users
    edited September 2012
    The short answer? Because they released Napoleon. The long answer? Because maintaining their games doesn't earn them money. This is also why the game was released in the state it was: if they'd delayed it a little to actually finish the game, they would have had to spend more time paying programmers and testers instead of...well, selling the game. The majority of broken things in Empire (the completely broken battle formations, the useless cavalry and artillery, the huge amount of bugs etc.) were mostly resolved in the (rather expensive) patch known as Napoleon Total War, or "Empire Total War v1.8".
    There are still an incredibly gigantic number of issues with Empire, but since they've released 2 Total War iterations (and a stand alone expansion) since Empire, they obviously have no intention of supporting the game.
    Why do people buy it? Because it's the largest scale TW game to date, with the most features. You can love Rome's variety and setting, but you're limited by how much of the world you can conquer, and your ships are unable actually battle one another.

    I thought i'd list the bugs i'd found in the game, then realised i'd spent 45 minutes writing about 2,000 words on everything that ruins my favourite TW game. Sorry for the text wall, but here's a list of serious bugs in the game:
    Formation bugs:
    Square formation -- useless at its intended purpose. Cavalry will still plough through the men in formation, and won't be deterred by the block of men standing before them. Much like other formations, no men will open fire unless ALL members of the unit have reloaded.
    Fire by rank -- doesn't work over uneven terrain. For example, if an enemy is on a hill, or a fort wall, the unit will simply "dance", standing up and down without ever actually firing.
    Platoon fire -- not sure i even need to explain this. It was removed from Napoleon, so it was obviously seen to be broken. There's essentially a 50% chance of your unit spreading out and slowly shooting at the enemy; the other possibility is that your unit will start barking orders out, without ever actually firing. Want a clear representation of this bug? Play Fontenoy in the Scenario selector. The French Maison du Roi foot guards won't ever actually fire at the oncoming British. This is probably another terrain bug, as the units are defending a bit of hill.
    Fire and advance -- this is another useless formation. It doesn't work. At all. In Napoleon it works, but is generally useless; in Empire, it does nothing, and is entirely useless.
    Light infantry formation -- has a number of gameplay bugs. These range from "i can live with that", to "well this game is lost". Men in a unit firing in LI formation will stand up to replace fallen comrades and to reload. If i've placed these units infront of a line infantry unit, for example, then the light infantry will be shot to pieces by their friends behind them while they reload. I hate this, but i guess i can live with it. What i CAN'T live with are the way light infantry formations NEVER STOP FIRING. Even once their foe has left targeting range, they'll continue to fire at them. Even if they're on the other side of the map. This means they'll either waste their ammo, fail to reload in time to face an actual threat, or worst of all, fire at their friends as they advance ahead of the light infantry. Losing your general to a bunch of your own men isn't much fun...
    Wedge formation -- another broken formation. There's absolutely no purpose to it. In normal formation, your cavalry are at least wide enough to kill a few men on the charge; in wedge formation, the first man in the formation gets the charge bonus, and the ones behind him simply crumple into the enemy unit and enter into melee; and since cavalry melee in Empire is the equivalent to watching ballet, they're quickly stabbed to death.
    Diamond formation -- another name for wedge formation. There are no benefits in turning speed as the description says. It's simply wedge with a longer formation size and a different name; the same bugs are still present.

    Broken abilities:
    Shrapnel Shot -- the AI can't use this. If you target anything, the shot will always pass over their heads, or to the side of them, and never actually kill anything. It's entirely useless. If you're on an entirely flat bit of terrain, you can target the area behind your foe, and then have a 50/50 chance of killing something.
    Canister Shot -- like Shrapnel, the targeting AI can't work with this. It always targets random parts of the map instead of the selected unit. At least with Canister, you have a 90% chance of hitting your foe by targeting the area behind them.
    Round Shot -- fixed in Napoleon, useless in Empire. Unless you're targeting horses, you're only going to be killing 1-2 men per shot. Surely 24 lbs of metal blasting through the air would at least WIND someone; but no. 1-2 men die, everyone else carries on as though it's just a bit of light rain.
    Carcass Shot -- useless. Completely. Useless. The description implies that it leaves part of the map covered in fire, which will kill anyone marching through it while the blaze is still going. Instead, it works the same as round shot: 1-2 units die, everyone else marches through the blazing Hell you just created.
    Quicklime Shot -- another fancy name for Carcass, only instead of creating the manifestation of Hell itself on 18th century earth, we're given some fog that has a chance of killing a few men or killing nobody at all.

    Battle gameplay bugs:
    Fort walls. In fact, no. Just forts in general. They're completely broken. If the walls are breeched in any way, the game will slow to a halt before crashing.
    In every siege battle i've played, there's always one unit which breaks down and refuses to use the light guns mounted on the walls of the fort, or to simply fire from the walls in any way whatsoever. They'll stand there with the drummer constantly hammering away without rest.
    There are gigantic pathfinding issues, and it's highly likely you'll, as the defender, have attacking units simply stood at the foot of the walls instead of using their ninja ropes to ascend.
    Units stationed on walls can't be controlled in any way. If you spend your time placing them in such a way as to utilise all the guns on the walls, you're likely to come back a moment later and find them using just one gun, or no guns at all. It's completely ridiculous.

    Puckle guns can't be placed behind gabionades. If you're foolish enough to choose that deployable defence, the entire unit will be unusable. The gun will disappear, along with its carriage, and you'll be left with just the men managing it. Even if you un-select that defence, the unit won't return. Another issue with the Puckle guns is that as soon as they enter any form of melee, they can't be remounted. There's no option to remount the weapon.

    Campaign map issues:
    Bink player doesn't work correctly for a huge amount of users. This means we can't view the duel videos, victory videos, nation defeated videos -- we can't watch your videos. Instead we're presented with either a stuttering video which is entirely unviewable; a pink screen which is...yea. It's a pink screen; a video which plays but is out of synch with the sound; or a video which doesn't play at all.
    The campaign map degrades in performace over time. There are two resulting issues from this: users will either crash to desktop, or their loading times will be significantly increased. We're talking 10+ minute load times while waiting for certain nations to complete their turns.

    Naval battle issues
    Reinforcing navies have no sound. They don't splish splash in the water, they don't scream random orders. Not even their masts rustle.
    Ships such as Galleons have a random chance of spawning with already dead crew members. It's as though they're over-packed with crew members, and random men can be found floating in the ocean where the unit spawned. This can leave them with 4-5 guns un-manned before they've even entered combat.
    Boarding attacks are completely broken. Unless the ship is routing, which means they automatically surrender as soon as their ship is brought side-to-side with another ship, boarding attacks will otherwise cause gigantic casualties on the attacker's side (unless the attacker is AI), simply because the crew want to play superman. Countless times i've had my crew dive from their ship's deck to the other ship's deck, and die on landing. A massive pile of dead bodies in the centre of the enemy's ship deck is just one of the fascinating results from a boarding attack. Other outcomes include masses of units getting stuck to anything and anything, units crowding around individual enemies and being picked off one by one from the sides, and units falling in the water because the pathfinding is so horrible.
    Oh, and using the "boarding" toggle allows your ship to defy the naval laws of physics: you fire a left broadside, then all of a sudden attack with the boarding button. What happens next? Your ship magically spins around to its right, pumps off that side's broadside, and then proceeds to rope the enemy in. In single player battles, this has the effect of making the game feel "cheap"; as though you're cheating. In multiplayer games, however, it has the effect of ruining the battle. Since when could a ship magically do a 180* spin against oncoming winds in such a tight space?

    Other issues (which are annoying, but don't exactly ruin the gameplay experience):
    On medium texture settings, light infantry have missing textures between their shoulders and their backs. There's just a see-through space there.
    The camera that lets you see through the eyes of your soldiers (press Insert to activate it) has been broken since v1.3. Instead, the game locks up as soon as the weapon is fired. Works fine in Napoleon; broken in Empire.
    Horse artillery always has 4 guns no matter the unit size selected. On Large unit size, for example, an artillery piece has 18 men and 3 guns; however, horse artillery goes against this formula, and always spawns with 4 guns, yet the same 18 men. This means only 3 guns can be crewed, and the extra gun goes to waste. This is even worse on Medium and Small unit sizes, and looks ridiculous.
    Artillery pieces are also incredibly resilient. Surely a cavalry charge should hack down the poorly-trained and poorly-armed men manning the guns? Of course not. Instead, the cavalry are stopped dead in their tracks and have to fight hand-to-hand with the horses, the men, and the gun itself, until finally the carriage collapses, with some kind of script taking 2-3 of your cavalrymen down with it the exact moment the carriage is destroyed.
    Matchmaking is laden with synchronisation errors.
    Achievements rarely work correctly.

    Now then. The Creative Assembly's excuse to us for using Steam as DRM was for an improved experience: so that they could keep the game up to date quickly and easily, so that users could play with achievements, and so multiplayer would be more fun.
    The game is still laden with bugs, but we've not seen a patch for a very long time; the achievements rarely work, and many are impossible to attain without exploits (for example, playing the tutorial mission and spamming diplomatic threats until it unlocks the achievement); multiplayer has horrible automatic matchmaking, and the matches themselves regularly result in synchronisation errors.
    If CA gave Empire one last patch to address these issues, and the countless others i've not mentioned, i'd buy Shogun 2, and pre-order Rome 2. As it stands, i've lost faith in them, and won't be buying other Total War games.
    Feel free to check out my Steam guide on naval combat in E:TW
  • Chris42899Chris42899 Senior Member Posts: 1,028Registered Users
    edited September 2012
    Well, there are definately some very annoying bugs or things which could need some improvements. Those things could easily be fixed with one last patch IMO. But despite the remaining bugs I still think ETW is overall a good game (To be honest: still enjoying it more than NTW & Shogun 2. Somehow I prefer the larger scale of the game (bigger map, more units& factions & nations).

    But I wouldn't mind a new patch improving/fixing things. Biggest problems/missing thing for me are:

    - Forts (not be able to repair them, pathfinding issues inside of them, slowing down the game, Fort artillery useless [too weak, sometimes cannot be manned correctly])
    - defeated AI armies retreating into my territory instead of back into AI territory
    - that units can be replenished everywhere (should only be possible in own territory not enemy territory IMO)
    - Artillery should be much more accurat/cause more damage
    - AI infantry often still does not start a fire fight but march towards my lines to start a melee battle (this behaviour was somehwat improved with latest patch but still not completely fixed)
    - Generals not having a "troops rally" button in land battles
    - some small graphical glitches (especially in tech trade menu)
    - Since warpath DLC there is an additional borderline in Kaintuck territory in grand campaign, although there is no additional territory
    - sometimes when a land battle is about to occur, wrong audio file is played (you can sometimes hear naval orders)
    - single AI artillery units raiding my towns (I can understand if AI sends cavalry units to raid towns but slow artillery? Come on!)
    - Pirate navies are overpowered
    - Don't like AI controlled Marathas doing a naval invasion in America or Europe (it's ridiculous to fight hordes of elephants in New York or Berlin)
    - Pathfinding issues near Istanbul & Copenhagen (land bridges. Sometimes slowing down AI turns. Sometimes player units can't cross the land bridges even if bridge is not blocked)
    - AI armies never retreating during a land battle, no matter how bad the odds are against AI (e.g. if AI has lost 60% of its men and I'm way superior, AI should retreat from the battle field and not continue to fight until all men are dead or until every unit has routed)
    - sometimes units do not fire in land battles when enemy is in range (may be caused by uneven terrain in front of unit)
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