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Review from an Anonymous Developer [CA response]

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  • VaulcanVaulcan Member Posts: 84Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    Well that's a welcome and positive response. I and others here appreciate it.

    I'd like to also say that support in removing flaming or trolling posts in a single post basis will be appreciated, rather than moving or closing a post because you see people derailing it. I have the nagging feeling that a few trolls will give a convenient excuse to remove this..

    Remove the single replies, not the post please because this is doing a lot of good for the community.

    Lastly the community is calling for an official thread from CA.

    Agreed
    Clear the thread, sticky it and push for C.A to address it.
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,423Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev, thanks for your post and your time!:)

    In your experience as a dev, how do you handle the choice of "system requirements" for the game? Do you think is important for your company to declare minimum requirements that are not totally false and deceiving, like the ones for this game? If you have time, check this thread:

    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/77828-CA-is-not-fair-deceiving-people-with-such-low-minimum-requirements.
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    jupsto wrote: »
    have you actually played this game? even if talking about one settlement this is not the case, but province vs province of previous games the difference is ridiculously in favour of rome2.

    didn't think this thread raised any points many others haven't already and it felt extremely pretentious.

    Thank you for your reply and you are entitled to your own opinion. Do however feel free to look through the amount of views and positive responses commented on.

    Good day.
  • QuaylemanQuayleman Member Posts: 56Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    Lastly the community is calling for an official thread from CA.

    This is true, but while I'd love to see it, I can't believe that we'll see one addressing their testing cycle or anything at all regarding Sega.

    That's pretty much for the same reason that you posted anonymously; careers, or at least jobs, could be at risk.
  • LesithLesith Senior Member Posts: 156Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    Like I just posted in another reply, this was clearly my personal opinion. It is based on the numbers provided by Steam which show that 34% of people who own the game have played more than 10 hours in the first couple of days since release, while the number of people who have visited the forums number a few thousand.


    Errr.. My point is exactly that people are not proving any problems. They provide no evidence which the rest of us can review and discuss. They say the game is broken and I am expected to accept this as fact.

    I am awaiting this evidence so we can have an intelligible discussion, but based on this response, I'm not sure you could take part in it.

    I ll remain calm not because of you but for moderator ...

    Do you play multiplayer campaign ??? 2 to 5 turns and you ll start to see desync.

    Now it s even worst that what we thought with my friend, not only it doesn t show you same battle when one is fighting and the other spectating ... It s even NOT THE SAME MAP ! Everyone who played mpc will tell you that it desync.

    You want evidence ? I can upload our saves ...

    I don t mind for graphical bugs, turn time ( with that many factions it s quite good in fact ).

    But bad AI + graphic bugs + battle and campaign bugs ( not being able to siege a settlement if port is under blockade ) + ( this is the one reason i bought the game ) Multiplayer campaign enormously broken ! that s too much for a 60 euros pre ordered game.
  • VaulcanVaulcan Member Posts: 84Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Quayleman wrote: »
    This is true, but while I'd love to see it, I can't believe that we'll see one addressing their testing cycle or anything at all regarding Sega.

    That's pretty much for the same reason that you posted anonymously; careers, or at least jobs, could be at risk.

    this is true, As much as we want it im sure CA wont directly address the OP post. BUT i BET we get a well polished statement about the great community feedback and how they will continue to work on weekly patchs (2 weeks the said..) AND the hold post will sound like a fat politician
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    As you said yourself, this is to be expected and will be addressed with the all of the information CA is able to gather now.


    These complaints are mostly just your personal preferences. There are a lot more people playing the game right now than there are people whining about it on the forums. You do the math.

    Overall rating: poor
    You make a 'pretty' post stating the obvious plus a lot of opinionated ranting.
    Your most crucial error is that, after reading, I have nothing to take away from this. I don't know what you wanted.
    All I see is a guy blowing smoke up his own **** and bashing CA to gain praise from the forum haters to boost his own ego.
    You call yourself a developer to invoke ethos but fail to provide any proof, or indeed even an argument which this is intended to support. Again, just blowing smoke up your own ****.
    You go on to praise modders, then choose to name the one who is most famous for doing the least.

    You say you hope to see replies from some enlightened thinkers. Well, we are here, and we are wondering what the point of this was.

    Well we've had 2 other professionals clearly stating they agree and from their own specialties. I can't think of a single Dev I know in Serbia but I'm sure you think you know what your talking about.

    Its also clear you DID miss the fundamental point of the post. Perhaps you should read it again without skimming, and you will likely figure it out.

    If you also cared to read the other posts, you will see little to no "haters" here....this post was specifically not to appeal to them
  • traverstravers Junior Member Posts: 6Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Excellent post and describes the situation perfectly.
  • AtepaAtepa Member Posts: 82Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    The OP has some valid points, but some of those are simply common sense, and the others are a difference in taste / opinion. The fact that he outright refuses to give any proof of his background, but then uses it as a justification for his grandstanding, makes him no more than a troll. A politically correct troll, but a troll none the less.

    If you want your words to mean something then step up, the only reason not to is because 1) You aren't a Dev (not that it matters, you HAVE valid points, at least some of them) 2) You are worried people will pick apart your game like you just did to CA and are a coward.

    As for the Original posts.

    HW Stuff - As you said is a given for almost any PC game, it is the trade off we have with Consoles for better games.

    Better Testing - Personally I haven't run into any of the passive AI issues as of yet, as for 5 minute fights, the only time I run into those are when I flat out charge my army at the AI without a care. When I use tactics they take their normal 15+ minutes.

    CA Choices - Yes, CA made game design choices, it is there game, they are allowed to do that. With that said:
    1. I've yet to see a battle flag in anything that CA didn't say they would be there which was Coastal Battles, City/Town Battles, and Fortification Battles. Maybe I just haven't run into them yet maybe I'm just not fighting the way others are.

    2. 4-6 Buildings per city... 2-4 cities per province = 8-24 buildings per area. Remember CA wanted to lessen the Micromanagement of Rome 2 since there were so many territories... this is how, and personally I love it I treat the province as ONE territory, because that's what CA meant for us to do.

    3. Family Tree, etc. Again CA's choice to make when it comes to design. You may not like it, I may not like it (although I do like some of them) but it is their call to make. Although I'm not sure what you mean by no events, because I've definitely gotten at least some bad omen events that I had to deal with.
  • Sulieman the MagnficentSulieman the Magnficent Senior Member Posts: 1,851Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Tyer032392 wrote: »
    Unfortunatly, CA cannot stay on the game for a extended period of time and will have to move onto other projects. So, the OP is correct that the modders are the best bet that the future of this game has; hopefully CA will implement Steam Workshop into Rome 2.

    Ca don't intend to releas modding tools in less than several months.
    Dwarf Battle cry: " For the High King and the glory of the dwarfs "
    Team Dwarves
    "
  • SchepelSchepel Senior Member Posts: 1,501Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Annondev, that game you have been working on, would I be far wrong if I looked in the rough direction of the Czech Republic?

    Anyway, you are saying nothing we did not know already. Whatever the CA people are saying, SEGA is the driving force behind a few things:

    - (too) early releases
    - no proper beta testing (probably to avoid early pirated versions)
    - ever more intrusive arcade elements in order to cater for the masses

    This has been crystal clear from the beginning. CA seem to be happy to 'cheat' SEGA by continued development past release, the extra free playable factions seem to me a major example of this. Even so, RTW2 is a bitter disappointment all the way. I am simply waiting for the first batch of patches and in the mean time, there is ARMA, WOT, CIV5, EU4 and plenty other games which are all more worthy of my time than Rome. However, this is the last time I preordered a CE for a TW game. I can live with bugs, but the design decisions are horrible. Plain and simple. I am so sad about what this game turned out to be, even my wife noticed and is asking all the time why I am not playing RTW to death. I haven't had the heart to tell her it is a complete and utter failure.
  • BongologistBongologist Member Posts: 91Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    slygrinz wrote: »
    none of us had to purchase any other strategic title as long as we had the latest TW.....

    That's a general sweeping statement if ever I saw one, I did buy other strategy games and even tested a few, I agree with the fact nothing compares to TW though, top class series of hardcore strategy game, I feel for the people who think they have been let down or don't like the game I don't care about the people who didn't check requirements or know their PC is outdated but still ***** about it anyway.
    ~ Intel i5-2500 3.30 Ghz - Nvidia GTX 570 2GB VRAM - 8GB DDR3 - Windows 7 64bit ~
  • CosmosisCosmosis Senior Member Posts: 354Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    STICKY THIS .... IMMEDIATELY!!! ........... as of: RIGHT NOW!
    Cosmosis' single top wish for Rome 2: Total War
    • War Goals
    Every war doesn't have to be a capitulation war - regional wars gives depth and variation to both warfare and diplomacy
  • Sulieman the MagnficentSulieman the Magnficent Senior Member Posts: 1,851Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    theedge634 wrote: »
    Just stop... no one cares, all right... done, enough, no more... some will take his word, some will not... it matters not, it's his free will to sell us on this prospect, just like it's your free will not to believe it. You're just derailing an important well thought out post. For pretty much no reason. Remember when CA employees got all whiny about Paradox employees calling them out on the AI in Empire.... yea there's no need to create that situation.

    Can you link me to that thread about you post meantionibg paradox and CA employees fighting each other? I'd love to see that.
    Dwarf Battle cry: " For the High King and the glory of the dwarfs "
    Team Dwarves
    "
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    Yes, patches will make the game better. That's what I said.
    As for the rest, the fact remains that this is your personal opinion. The OP did not write a constructive and objective review, he wrote his own personal opinions along with a lot of judgement.
    Judging by the number of people playing the game right now, the game stands on its own.

    Sure, it's a shame that it does not cater to the individual needs of the couple hundred people complaining on the forums right now, but that does not make the game bad.

    Every complaint I have read on the forums in the past few days have either been bugs, which you always have and which will be addressed in time, or the fact that the game doesn't match the needs and expectations of the individual.

    I have seen no constructive or objective concerns raised beside the graphics/bugs issues, and it's frankly shameful and pathetic that people will not admit that the game stands on it's own, just because it doesn't suit their preferences. This 'review' is no different.

    Also, you lot keep saying that modders will 'improve' the game, but the very point of modding is to customize and personalize it to your needs. It's right there in your face: Your issues with the game are based in your own personal preferences, not issues with the game.

    You generally have 3 types of people here:

    1. The fundamental fans
    2. The fundamental haters
    3. The reasonable, objective and open minded.

    I prefer the third kind, but once again I appreciate your opinion as you are free to have.
  • NorsaNorsa Senior Member Posts: 997Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Can you link me to that thread about you post meantionibg paradox and CA employees fighting each other? I'd love to see that.

    Yeah, that scuffle went past me as well :o
    2%
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    JohnT wrote: »
    I'm not sure I agree with you. He very precisely put each case forward and answered in kind. It takes a developer brain to to do this. Sure some of this is opinion, but there is no doubt there are fundamental parts of the game AI that are broken that shouldn't have been, I come across these issues regularly when playing and it just breaks the joy of playing and there has been an attempt to make the game faster paced and casual, out of character for fans and the series as a whole. I am a developer myself. I have worked for many high profile UK games companies as a senior and lead developer. Much of what has been said rings true and I'm also a life long fan of the entire series and of CA so it pains me to say much of this.

    Another fellow professional, thank you Sir. I bet we know each other lol and likely worked on some of the same stuff. Feel free to PM me.
  • mvtaylormvtaylor Junior Member Posts: 10Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I'd love if CA did put together an official response to the multitude of issues. I highly doubt it though...

    @AnnonDev, 3 points

    You mention Empire multiple times in here, just out of interest how did you find Shogun 2, more specifically Fall of the Samurai? As I feel that's one of the best things CA has put out in a long time and although some thnigs such as the Radious mod help as a Vanilla product it's up their with their best in my opinion, would you agree?


    Secondly, which issues or features do you realistically feel CA is going to address? Graphics, bugs and the like are obviously a yes, but what about larger overhauls such as city management, the removal of capture flags and reintroducing family trees? I get the impression the latter are all down to how much work they can afford to put in and if they even want to bother, if they don't they will simply ignore these posts?

    Thirdly, will there be a third game in the Wargame series as it states on your the Eugen website they are developing two RTS games for release next year...
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Really good post. As a dev myself I completely agree. I hope CA fixes the issues. My collector's edition money should help with that.

    a 5th fellow professional. Thank you Sir.
  • DzuariDzuari Member Posts: 68Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    even move forward button is lost



    Up arrow key.
  • Sulieman the MagnficentSulieman the Magnficent Senior Member Posts: 1,851Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Actually I read th debate and found that geniually paradox developers ( I on't like their games as they're too slow for me) however they really take an effort to engage with the community rather than CA whi have had bad AI on mist releases,CA employes looking at their community engagement sucks like hell. They don't bother about the community, if they did we would have Kieran bridgen back again! Anyone Remeber him? I found him quite decent though he represented a co-operate side, he was still good at his job. He would know what to do with this huge backlash. Unforunately he works with Sega now.... I think I might go too Paradix seeing how they have a good relationship with their community.
    Dwarf Battle cry: " For the High King and the glory of the dwarfs "
    Team Dwarves
    "
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I have not experienced this. I find it very satisfying when it moves it's troops into position, then attack my front line with it's lightest troops followed by cavalry charges while it flanks me with archers.
    The AI can always be better, but this is not broken in any way that I can see.


    This is a bug, not a gameplay flaw.


    I do not find ranged units too powerful. They have a devastating effect on light cavalry and light infantry (as they should), but once I move my spartan hoplites in, it takes 4 stacks focus firing on one unit to get it 1/4 down before they reach them.


    I have not experienced this. Sounds like a bug, not a gameplay flaw.


    Your personal opinions. I have no problems with any of these changes.


    Your personal preferences.


    Your personal preferences.


    I would indeed call this subjective. I'm sorry you feel the game has lost something compared to the rest of the series, but I cannot accept your personal preferences as fact that the game is bad or broken.

    I've read through your many posts on your profile and I think I know what you are my friend...I was waiting for you to turn up.
  • KillZone96ENKillZone96EN Member Posts: 37Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    JohnT wrote: »
    worth checking out Radious Battle Mod. The guy's pretty on fire at the moment and has already leveled out and changed a lot of stuff so that the AI is better balanced.

    OH MY GOD! OOOOOH MY GOD. This makes battles so much better! EEEEEEEEEE. I had a battle lasting 17 minutes! hehehehe, He's going to improve on it even more when he can find the time to do it.

    Edit: Sorry that was a bit off topic, I just had to respond I'm so worked up.
  • fugglesfuggles Member Posts: 34Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Fantastic post OP!

    And if I may, while I am not in the gaming industry, I am in the software business (embedded software mostly). What the OP outlines is true across the spectrum IMO. What is very troubling is #2. When you fail at this, its usually the result of some combination of negligence/arrogance/naiveté - and its rampant throughout the software biz.

    Sitting here thinking about OP's post and reflecting on this game over the past week has brought me to a point which I had hoped I would never return to. Namely, what was left of my tattered Gamer's Soul after a week with Dragon Age 2. This is exactly what happened. I *loved* the first installment; but the 2nd was such a letdown. I tried to make it work. Made excuses in the "early days"... but the more I played. Same thing here it seems, unfortunately.
  • RiithiRiithi Member Posts: 51Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I wish I was being paid. Instead I'm here trying to bring a measure of rational thinking to this forum of flamers, in my own time, when I could be playing the game, in the hopes that my efforts will make at least a few people see reason and not hate CA and miss out on their future games simply out of spite, because a few people on the forums were upset the game didn't meet their specific expectations.
    The game has a several fatal bugs and there are a number of design decisions that I do not agree with. But at the end of the day, the bugs will be fixed, and the game is what it is, whether it suits your personal preferences or not.
    If it doesn't you're free to mod it.

    I am not here to tell anyone that they're wrong and that you should put on blindfolds and enjoy the game despite the bugs and your disagreements with the design.

    But someone has to point out that CA has done a good job and has made a great game, even if it was not what some people on the forums had hoped for.
    A lot of people read these posts, and if they're all negative and bashing the game and CA for personal reasons, people who were neutral when they came here will be affected by this and could risk missing out on future great releases from CA simply because they were opinionated by reading the forums.

    This is what I'm trying to counter by pointing out that none of the concerns raised here have been constructive and objective (save for the bugs, which will be addressed), but only based in personal preferences.

    Again, if you have any objective concerns about the game you would like to discuss, I'm all ears. But all this hating serves no one.

    EDIT: I've said all I still needed to say in this reply and won't be following the thread any longer, at least for now. Time to enjoy the game.
    P.S. If any more of you would like to point out what a **** fanboy I am, or, perchance, wish to discuss something with me, I will (eventually) reply to PMs.

    Your entire tone and viewpoint seems to indicate you are getting payed.
    Bring in the shills!!
    people who were neutral when they came here will be affected by this and could risk missing out on future great releases from CA
    no gamer would ever think in such ways..
  • JTempJTemp Member Posts: 74Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    Another fellow professional, thank you Sir. I bet we know each other lol and likely worked on some of the same stuff. Feel free to PM me.

    Quite possibly. It's all too easy to get drawn in but you were pretty spot on with your post. It's a small industry and our bread and butter so don't want it turning face up if you catch my drift. SEGA are SEGA and CA are CA, somewhere they have to meet in the middle and try and deliver the best product they can. I guess being fans as well we can get a bit emotional.
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    You want evidence the game is not broken? Start it up and play it. It works.

    It took me a moment to catch my breath after laughing so hard.

    I should hire you my friend, you clearly would be a massive addition to my team. With you on board our customer base will be bowled over by your deductive and logical reasoning.

    If only you didn't live in Serbia, but lived in the UK....oh but we both know you're not in Serbia don't we?
  • JTempJTemp Member Posts: 74Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    OH MY GOD! OOOOOH MY GOD. This makes battles so much better! EEEEEEEEEE. I had a battle lasting 17 minutes! hehehehe, He's going to improve on it even more when he can find the time to do it.

    Edit: Sorry that was a bit off topic, I just had to respond I'm so worked up.

    I know. Can't credit it enough. Great work.
  • nomisumnomisum Senior Member Posts: 129Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    Like I just posted in another reply, this was clearly my personal opinion. It is based on the numbers provided by Steam which show that 34% of people who own the game have played more than 10 hours in the first couple of days since release, while the number of people who have visited the forums number a few thousand.

    Yeah I am one of them. I took holidays to play this game and mastered 36+ hours so far in coop campaign. That doesnt mean its not a buggy mess to wade through and the fun we have is limited. But what would be the alternative, to stop playing and cancel my holidays? No, I try to swallow my frustration and play on, sending savegames back and forth, auto-resolving instead of playing battles in fear of desync, drinking unhealthy stuff while waiting for the turns to finish and pitying my buddy who has even worse fps than me.
This discussion has been closed.