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Review from an Anonymous Developer [CA response]

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  • MidgetsmasherMidgetsmasher Senior Member Posts: 292Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    It is my professional opinion that CA have taken what was an immersive, detailed, tactical, and market leading series and have turned it into a better looking but fundamentally simplified and dumbed down version of its formal self. They have seriously damaged the tactical element to this game, taken out tried and tested elements and have replaced them with arcade elements.

    Couldn't agree more.
    I eat small metal objects.
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I wish I was being paid. Instead I'm here trying to bring a measure of rational thinking to this forum of flamers, in my own time, when I could be playing the game, in the hopes that my efforts will make at least a few people see reason and not hate CA and miss out on their future games simply out of spite, because a few people on the forums were upset the game didn't meet their specific expectations.
    The game has a several fatal bugs and there are a number of design decisions that I do not agree with. But at the end of the day, the bugs will be fixed, and the game is what it is, whether it suits your personal preferences or not.
    If it doesn't you're free to mod it.

    I am not here to tell anyone that they're wrong and that you should put on blindfolds and enjoy the game despite the bugs and your disagreements with the design.

    But someone has to point out that CA has done a good job and has made a great game, even if it was not what some people on the forums had hoped for.
    A lot of people read these posts, and if they're all negative and bashing the game and CA for personal reasons, people who were neutral when they came here will be affected by this and could risk missing out on future great releases from CA simply because they were opinionated by reading the forums.

    This is what I'm trying to counter by pointing out that none of the concerns raised here have been constructive and objective (save for the bugs, which will be addressed), but only based in personal preferences.

    Again, if you have any objective concerns about the game you would like to discuss, I'm all ears. But all this hating serves no one.

    EDIT: I've said all I still needed to say in this reply and won't be following the thread any longer, at least for now. Time to enjoy the game.
    P.S. If any more of you would like to point out what a **** fanboy I am, or, perchance, wish to discuss something with me, I will (eventually) reply to PMs.

    I love it, comes on for all of an hour or two to essentially tell all of us we have no idea what we are talking about, that we have no evidence whatsoever, and that all the things that are bad are our personal problems and nothing to do with the game.

    Then says he is leaving before people can give him the evidence.

    What a joke.
  • ergieergie Junior Member Posts: 23Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Fantastic post anondev. Thanks for it. I hope that someone on Ca read it.
    The game main core is too far from the other tw games, and that hurts... im truly shocekd with this release. Lets hope there will be some kind of reaction from the devs
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    It took me a moment to catch my breath after laughing so hard.

    I should hire you my friend, you clearly would be a massive addition to my team. With you on board our customer base will be bowled over by your deductive and logical reasoning.

    If only you didn't live in Serbia, but lived in the UK....oh but we both know you're not in Serbia don't we?
    Why do you keep going on about Serbia?

    Skimmed through most of your responses. Found nothing worth commenting on. Didn't expect to, either, to be honest.
    You're very petty for someone who's supposed to be a professional and an objective reviewer.


    On a side note, everyone who enjoyed the OP might also enjoy this: A Review - 50 Hours later.
    It's another mostly negative review, but this one is made properly, in my opinion.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    I love it, comes on for all of an hour or two to essentially tell all of us we have no idea what we are talking about, that we have no evidence whatsoever, and that all the things that are bad are our personal problems and nothing to do with the game.

    Then says he is leaving before people can give him the evidence.

    What a joke.
    I spent 2 and a half hours following this thread and nobody provided me any evidence we could discuss. They were too busy telling me their opinions.
    If you'd read my posts you'd also have noticed I invited anyone to PM me if they had any evidence they would like to discuss.

    Frankly, the only joke here is you pretending to be an honest reviewer when you have this poor an attitude.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • gualtygualty Junior Member Posts: 11Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    This is not a great game.
    Is an AWESOME game.

    Because of his concept.
    The mix between turn-based and RTS is still unmatched in this genre.
    The amazing number of unit, the feel you are really commanding an army, is awesome.
    And after the battle is done, you find yourself praying for your assassin to get the job done, or hoping your best leader will have a son soon.
    And don't forget to build an armory to strenght your soldiers, or raising a defensive wall on your precious last conquered city.

    All of this is AWESOME.

    But in this topic we are discussing about how this great concept has been developed (enhanced?) in this episode.
    And regarding this argument, the gamers/customers have all the rights to point out all the bad of RTW2.
  • DzuariDzuari Member Posts: 68Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I spent 2 and a half hours following this thread and nobody provided me any evidence we could discuss. They were too busy telling me their opinions.
    If you'd read my posts you'd also have noticed I invited anyone to PM me if they had any evidence they would like to discuss.

    Frankly, the only joke here is you pretending to be an honest reviewer when you have this poor an attitude.

    I just posted this 10 minutes ago, this is broken mechanics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeISAr7m70k

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwC98pZsGqQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdpIENG0Y2k

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ZdBZ2Q8H0
  • mechagranmechagran Banned Posts: 136Banned Users
    edited September 2013
    May I make the suggestion that as opposed to bickering amongst yourselves, you turn your attention to trying to come up with suggestions as to how to improve the game.

    Modders, forum junkies, players, it takes all sorts. The OP has a point, but its getting lost in what is rapidly becoming a tit for tat battle.

    You are both intelligent people (obviously) your energy could be better put to use suggesting constructive ways to fix the game.

    In here http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/81834-The-Official-quot-FIRST-PATCH-quot-Constructive-Criticism-thread-(2)

    would be a good start. :)
    Goodbye
  • fugglesfuggles Member Posts: 34Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    ...
    You're very petty for someone who's supposed to be a professional and an objective reviewer.
    ...

    He's not petty - he's realistic and honest. And that is what it takes to build anything properly, software or otherwise.

    And he's not putting himself and his reasoning through vague contortions with the express purpose of "feeling good".

    And for the record a lot of the issues that GMEidon outlined in his great review, would have been caught with proper QA. So either CA didnt test, or they release something with numerous known issues. How do you spin that?
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I spent 2 and a half hours following this thread and nobody provided me any evidence we could discuss. They were too busy telling me their opinions.
    If you'd read my posts you'd also have noticed I invited anyone to PM me if they had any evidence they would like to discuss.

    Frankly, the only joke here is you pretending to be an honest reviewer when you have this poor an attitude.

    I don't see any responses to the video evidence that has been presented to you, perhaps you should watch the AngryJoe videos?

    Spend less time nattering and more time responding to those who have taken the time to take you up on you challenge.

    And why have I mentioned Serbia? Because I know who/what you are and I expected better frankly. I'm still going to remain Anon, but trust me when I say this...I know what you are and you are not fooling me or a number of the others on here.
  • ChrisNHChrisNH Member Posts: 70Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Nice write up!

    Now if they can mod it to play Yakety Sax (Benny Hill music) whenever a unit circles the map more than twice they can call it "working as intended" and add the feature to the box.
  • Siven80Siven80 Senior Member Posts: 484Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Good read and i agree.

    I posted my thoughts and constructive criticism on why i think the interface is uninformative and a downgrade on Shogun 2 also http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/78887-Rome-2-Interface-is-uninformative-and-a-downgrade-on-the-near-perfection-of-Shogun-2.

    For anyone interested.
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Dzuari wrote: »
    Thank you for providing some actual evidence to discuss :)
    This is what I'd consider bugs, however. I expect these sort of issues will be fixed soon.
    Before you say I'm just dismissing evidence, I have pointed out previously that I recognize there are a lot of fatal bugs in the game.
    We all knew there would be, however. There always is when new games (or any software, really) is released, and they are fixed eventually.
    If this isn't fixed eventually I'll agree it's a broken mechanic.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • VexosVexos Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I won't come on here and lie saying that I won't be buying the next Total War game because let's be honest I will be buying the game I just won't be preordering it, I'll be happy to wait until the game has dropped in price. The only reason I buy a game at full price after release is to support the developer (and sometimes because I'm a hedonist but shhhh) and after a release like this let's just say I'm less than enthusiastic to help the Creative Assembly. Also the fact that you haven't responded to the concerns on the forum and told people what you will and won't be fixing is just atrocious!
  • JTempJTemp Member Posts: 74Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    mechagran wrote: »
    May I make the suggestion that as opposed to bickering amongst yourselves, you turn your attention to trying to come up with suggestions as to how to improve the game.

    Modders, forum junkies, players, it takes all sorts. The OP has a point, but its getting lost in what is rapidly becoming a tit for tat battle.

    You are both intelligent people (obviously) your energy could be better put to use suggesting constructive ways to fix the game.

    In here http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/81834-The-Official-quot-FIRST-PATCH-quot-Constructive-Criticism-thread-(2)

    would be a good start. :)

    Very good idea. I'm hopping over there right now. (Although I should probably get some work done first. Moth to the flame. T.
  • AnnonDevAnnonDev Senior Member Posts: 144Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    Thank you for providing some actual evidence to discuss :)
    This is what I'd consider bugs, however. I expect these sort of issues will be fixed soon.
    Before you say I'm just dismissing evidence, I have pointed out previously that I recognize there are a lot of fatal bugs in the game.
    We all knew there would be, however. There always is when new games (or any software, really) is released, and they are fixed eventually.
    If this isn't fixed eventually I'll agree it's a broken mechanic.

    Can someone post a link to the AngryJoe video where he clearly shows the battle AI rushing up and running away.

    For anyone with any dev experience this is NOT a bug this is AI.
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    The evidence is people don't find the game enjoyable, that's pretty much the only evidence people need regarding weather or not its a good Entertainment product
    My mother probably wouldn't find the game entertaining. Does that mean the game is broken? No.
    Some people like it, some people don't.
    A lot of people here are arguing the game is broken because they don't like it, however. This is the attitude I am challenging. You shouldn't say the game is broken if it isn't, just because you don't like it.
    I have been trying to get these people to provide me with the evidence, but almost all ignore me.
    The rest point to bugs, which I do not consider evidence of a broken game. Bugs always follow releases and will require time to stamp out.
    To name a few, there's the ship-sticking-to-other-ship-and-stafing-to-the-end-of-the-map bug, the passive battle AI bug and the units-stuck-on-ships-after-disembarking bug.
    These bugs will probably be addressed eventually. If they aren't then I'll agree the game is broken, but bugs =/= broken game.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • VaulcanVaulcan Member Posts: 84Registered Users
    edited September 2013
  • KillZone96ENKillZone96EN Member Posts: 37Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    JohnT wrote: »
    I know. Can't credit it enough. Great work.
    Ugh, navigating TWC is unbearably slow right now though.
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    fuggles wrote: »
    He's not petty - he's realistic and honest. And that is what it takes to build anything properly, software or otherwise.

    And he's not putting himself and his reasoning through vague contortions with the express purpose of "feeling good".

    And for the record a lot of the issues that GMEidon outlined in his great review, would have been caught with proper QA. So either CA didnt test, or they release something with numerous known issues. How do you spin that?
    I was referring to all of his responses to me, not to his OP. Nothing realistic or honest about anything he said there, just pettiness.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,423Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    Can someone post a link to the AngryJoe video where he clearly shows the battle AI rushing up and running away.

    For anyone with any dev experience this is NOT a bug this is AI.

    Isn't the purpose of game to give FUN to the players? Aren't those videos funny as hell? OMG cannot sto laughing!!!

    You clearly have no dev experience if you talk like that.:D
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
  • VortimerVortimer Junior Member Posts: 20Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Im usually a calm guy when it comes to game errors, but this is just an absolute mess. I haven't been able to play properly yet and my rig is pretty good. I upgraded it just for Rome, but CA has lost my confidence. I won't preorder from them ever again, and I think they have done a poor job.

    I have seen a lot of bad releases like SWTOR or WoW. It's just unplayable.
  • madmariomadmario Senior Member Posts: 115Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Streen15 wrote: »
    Anyone remember the shield bug from Medieval II? Where the shield would actually lower your unit's armor value? Ah, the good old days of bug-free TW games.

    Or the german two hander animation bug, which was never fixed, I think.
    "[A]ges of siege warfare culminated in the use of torches. It is simply not plausible." Garbarsardar
  • VexosVexos Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Atepa wrote: »
    The OP has some valid points, but some of those are simply common sense, and the others are a difference in taste / opinion. The fact that he outright refuses to give any proof of his background, but then uses it as a justification for his grandstanding, makes him no more than a troll. A politically correct troll, but a troll none the less.

    If you want your words to mean something then step up, the only reason not to is because 1) You aren't a Dev (not that it matters, you HAVE valid points, at least some of them) 2) You are worried people will pick apart your game like you just did to CA and are a coward.

    As for the Original posts.

    HW Stuff - As you said is a given for almost any PC game, it is the trade off we have with Consoles for better games.

    Better Testing - Personally I haven't run into any of the passive AI issues as of yet, as for 5 minute fights, the only time I run into those are when I flat out charge my army at the AI without a care. When I use tactics they take their normal 15+ minutes.

    CA Choices - Yes, CA made game design choices, it is there game, they are allowed to do that. With that said:
    1. I've yet to see a battle flag in anything that CA didn't say they would be there which was Coastal Battles, City/Town Battles, and Fortification Battles. Maybe I just haven't run into them yet maybe I'm just not fighting the way others are.

    2. 4-6 Buildings per city... 2-4 cities per province = 8-24 buildings per area. Remember CA wanted to lessen the Micromanagement of Rome 2 since there were so many territories... this is how, and personally I love it I treat the province as ONE territory, because that's what CA meant for us to do.

    3. Family Tree, etc. Again CA's choice to make when it comes to design. You may not like it, I may not like it (although I do like some of them) but it is their call to make. Although I'm not sure what you mean by no events, because I've definitely gotten at least some bad omen events that I had to deal with.

    I like how the OP has the time to respond to people going "I'm a dev too OMG look at me" but he doesn't have the time to respond to this which actually has valid points . . .
  • harbingerxyharbingerxy Senior Member Posts: 312Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    My mother probably wouldn't find the game entertaining. Does that mean the game is broken? No.
    Some people like it, some people don't.
    A lot of people here are arguing the game is broken because they don't like it, however. This is the attitude I am challenging. You shouldn't say the game is broken if it isn't, just because you don't like it.
    I have been trying to get these people to provide me with the evidence, but almost all ignore me.
    The rest point to bugs, which I do not consider evidence of a broken game. Bugs always follow releases and will require time to stamp out.
    To name a few, there's the ship-sticking-to-other-ship-and-stafing-to-the-end-of-the-map bug, the passive battle AI bug and the units-stuck-on-ships-after-disembarking bug.
    These bugs will probably be addressed eventually. If they aren't then I'll agree the game is broken, but bugs =/= broken game.
    If a huge amount of players that are fans of the TW series can't find any joy in playing the latest installment of said series, then there's something wrong with the game. We don't need to call it broken if you're so hung up on the word. Let's just call it BAD. One only needs to take a look at the user Metacritic score to see the outrage amongst the gamers.
  • Gardan_KoloftGardan_Koloft Senior Member Zamin_e_IranPosts: 976Registered Users, Smiley
    edited September 2013
    Excellent read and down to the T.
    Maybe someone should make another complaint directory, hi Ranknfile, Except this time it would be for real. Then again it will be huge.

    Some of us are not even able to install the game and when we do (You have to do a lot of enabling, disabling, language change, restart steam etc....frankly it's a joke) by some miracle it wont even launch. All CA come up with is a few solution which don't work and then they keep repeating themselves.

    RTW was just epic and one of a kind. It will never be topped, Atleast not by CA. I laugh and shake my had at myself thinking there was even a remote chance that CA could match the awesomeness of RTW let alone top it. This is just typical, all the hype before release. At times it was unbearable and then release.....

    R2 is Just the ******* son of SEGA, They came, they saw and they conquered CA and implanted their filthy, arcadey, blob vs blob, 5 minute clickety click fest idea and now CA have to deal with this shameful and broken son of theirs.

    CA You went from a Legendary company who revolutionised the gaming genre with such a memorable game to a complete utter let down. I have to handed to you though you're PR team (SEGA) did a great job in deceiving and selling us this worthless piece of ****.
    I!..!I
    “The lion is most handsome when hunting”
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    AnnonDev wrote: »
    And why have I mentioned Serbia? Because I know who/what you are and I expected better frankly. I'm still going to remain Anon, but trust me when I say this...I know what you are and you are not fooling me or a number of the others on here.
    I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I think you may have misread my location.

    I joined this thread to try and start a rational debate about the issues with the game. A few people responded in kind.
    You resorted to bashing. I'm through with you.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
  • sadhbh3sadhbh3 Senior Member Drogheda IrelandPosts: 233Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Good post and I agree I believe that the game was rushed all the talk about this game being aimed at standard pc owners and then they seem to the most affected by the bugs. Still I will wait and hopefully I will be able to play it properly although I should not have to!.
    [portable]Sadhbh3[/portable-id]
  • VaulcanVaulcan Member Posts: 84Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kross wrote: »
    I literally have no ******g idea what you're talking about. I think you may have misread my location.
    You've proven to be nothing but a petty and paranoid selfmasturbating ***** and it's getting on my nerves.
    I joined this thread to try and start a rational debate about the issues with the game. A few people responded in kind.
    You resorted to bashing. I'm through with you.

    people have been banned of this forum for lesser insaults. I expect you will too my friend..
  • KrossKross Senior Member Posts: 1,187Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    If a huge amount of players that are fans of the TW series can't find any joy in playing the latest installment of said series, then there's something wrong with the game. We don't need to call it broken if you're so hung up on the word. Let's just call it BAD. One only needs to take a look at the user Metacritic score to see the outrage amongst the gamers.
    This is my point exactly. You're allowed to call it bad. I find several things about the game I dislike compared to the previous titles. But my point is that people are saying it's broken, based on their own personal preferences.
    And it is wrong to do so.
    In Hell I'll be in good company.
This discussion has been closed.