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Macedon's Foot Companions balance?

illapaillapa MemberPosts: 45Registered Users
Ok has anyone else just been completely blown away by how good these units are? To the point where I have to say they are completely unbalanced. I quick matched with a friend to do a 2v2. We ran into 2 guys who literally spawned with 9-10 foot companions each and just charged. No Phalanx no tactics. Nothing. Just a straight up charge in a giant ball. I had a Parthia army I responded by spreading out. Using horse archers. Kiting with foot archers and charging NON-Phalanx foot companions in the BACK with Cataphracts. They never broke they held and beat the Cataphracts just by spaming their steady ability even without spears their heavy armor makes cavalry just stop instantly upon hitting them. We had to kill like 70% of them before they routed by kiting them with horse archers, peltasts, and archers.

They did not even need their phalanxes to obliterate my friend's hoplites. Foot companions need their swords to be nerfed into oblivion (pikes are fine I totally support them destroying people with pikes), have their armor dropped like a rock, or just have their cost skyrocket. I understand these are the elite of the elite of pikemen but when they can just say screw phalanxes lets just barbarian charge and be incredibly hard to kill its ridiculous. When I saw them just charge I thought to myself this would be the easiest win ever but I ended up fighting for my life against the genetically engineered super soldiers called foot companions.

*edit* for clarification I am not saying that MACEDON is unbeatable I am simply stating that if the enemy could mindlessly zerg with just foot companions and put up an incredibly difficult fight vs a combined arms intelligently put together army then something is WRONG. I love the game I do think its relatively balanced I'm just saying that in my experience every time I've run into foot companions no matter how much flanking and missile damage I do they perform amazingly against anything. They have so much armor Javelins are basically the only counter that's the other infuriating thing. So again to clarify I'm pointing out issues with the foot companions not Macedon as a whole being invincible.
Post edited by illapa on

Comments

  • SOnny228SOnny228 Member Posts: 54Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I've been getting these spams too, kinda kills the game so now I find myself going super cheesy vs Macedon. Even with a rear carge they still hold formation, they'll get fix some day though.
  • KronosKronos Senior Member Posts: 110Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Macedon is easy to beat. I'll be making a post about balance tomorrow, but suffice to say you just need to learn the game a little better.
  • HawatHawat Senior Member Posts: 227Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Well yes you can beat them but it doesnt make them any less unbalanced if you compare vs other units at the same cost..
  • illapaillapa Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kronos...Seriously? Did you not read my post? I did beat Macedon. I did not say that they are unbeatable I said that the foot companions are stupidly overpowered when someone can literally load into a battle with just 9 units of them and no support whatsoever and still be hard to kill.

    18 companions vs 6 cataphracts 8 Parthian horse archers, an an entire army of assorted spartan hoplite + peltasts should have been a joke of a battle. Instead charging Macedonian pikes in the back did virtually nothing and they just yolo charged without phalanx formation and still managed to overcome most of the spartans and cataphracts before they were finally killed off by ranged weapons.
  • KronosKronos Senior Member Posts: 110Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    No, They can be beaten using units at the same cost. There's in fact 2 or 3 ways of doing it and it is not something that is hard to do/requires a lot of skill just knowledge and a bit of micro. They are if anything underpowered.

    I can safely say I could beat an equally skilled player playing macedon with at least 5 other factions which means they're clearly not OP.

    Parthia is the worst faction and HA do nothing. Peltasts are a bad choice as well. Royal Spartans can beat them in equal numbers, however that does take skill so I would suggest the inadequacy lies with your army selection and skill at the game. You were destined to do badly from the start with those builds.
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    The units are rigth is cost - efective is fine to the only problem with them and most of pike tipe units is the way some players exploit them, since this unit only eak points are flanks any one can think ok then lets no expose any flanks. how? well simple lets camp at red line or lets make a BOX. since the units is not the problem i think the best non agresive solution for now is ser a cap to this tipe of units and pikes for army a good cap can 4. max 6 this way palyers will not exploit pikes or at last making a BOX or red line camp will more hard.
  • KronosKronos Senior Member Posts: 110Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Thats where better missiles come into play so you can outskirmish their box. I can safely say this is the first TW game I've played where missile caps may not be needed apart from maybe max 4-6 HA if they fix them as 20 HA is just annoying.
  • Ernesto_HErnesto_H Senior Member Posts: 1,735Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    sadly you cant they cna bring 20 pikes units and no matter if your arhcer kill 1 or maybe 3 they still will have enougth to hold any attack. and bow dont to damage. and bring bows rare hlp since they bring bows too.
  • portugal1portugal1 Banned Posts: 568Banned Users
    edited September 2013
    auxiliary syrian archers melt foot companions
  • MrPiggiMrPiggi Senior Member Posts: 435Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    People aren't understanding OPs point.

    Foot companions are amazing. And they need to be amazing, because they are the elite units of Macedon. However, you are right OP. They need to be nerfed when they are not using their pikes.
  • KotliKotli Senior Member Posts: 132Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Raye wrote: »

    That video is silly to use as its got weak Macedon pikemen on the other side, who stats are poor all-round apart from the armour stat.
    BTW want to pwn Foot Companions use Egypt Royal pikemen units they beat them as good as the foot beat most other units.
  • VikingXVikingX Junior Member Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    The problem with pikemen in general is that after they have been engaged they are ******g uncontrolable. Try change pikedirection and they face 180 degrees the wrong way. gg. Easy to beat. Dont attack the middle of the line but have alot of inf just holding em there. DO NOT engage. then just outflank. When he tries to reinforce then u can attack. GG. No way he can change pikedirection.
  • SpearmasterSpearmaster Senior Member Posts: 206Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    People using the "BUT THEY ARE THE ELITE TROOPS!" argument are ridiculous. Yes, an elite troop should beat a normal troop, but the reason why an elite troop can beat normal troop is not that they can mindlessly charge into EXTREME DANGER (like charging a phalanx) and obliterating the enemy in 12 seconds.
  • vvvvbbbbvvvvbbbb Member Posts: 60Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    lol keep crying foot companions are as they should be,if u nerf them nerf roman heavy cav and every other elite unit in the game
  • JevankoJevanko Member Posts: 91Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Did you know 2 other races have the exact same unit? Epirus and Egypt have it. Let alone talk about the pikemen of Sparta and Pontus who are more cost efficient.
    The lack of game knowledge of some people posting on this forums is disturbing...
  • JoCoolJoCool Senior Member Posts: 594Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Kronos wrote: »
    Macedon is easy to beat. I'll be making a post about balance tomorrow, but suffice to say you just need to learn the game a little better.

    Kronos is right. The OP either needs to train a bit and get more experience with the game, or stop making such posts.

    Also, to the OP, why do you create such a thread just because he gave you a hard time? You still won, didn't you? So a balanced army won anyway. All that guy could do was charge in a blob and wait out what happens. Of course he lost, he gave away all initiative, such armies have no flexibility at all. And a ****** defense towards morale debuffing units.

    Main line locked, 2-3 Cav around, wedge formation, warcry/whatever, whistling arrows/slingers/javs, all at a single unit at the side of the line, then charge in cav in intervalls of 5 seconds.

    First rout. Second rout. Chain rout. Victory.


    Oh, and the video is just a portrayal of a total newbie getting hit by an elitezerging newbie. The fact he uses his phalanxes and skirmishers both wrongly AND lacks proper cav and morale debuffers he could afford shows that he has no idea and rightfully lost so quickly. What hindered him running around the enemy shooting them in the back? He instead shot over his own lines and half of the stuff shot into his own lines into their own backs! The argument alltogether is really silly, its extreme would be running militia hoplites against foot companions and then counting until the milita hoplites break - all while you fire into your own troops. Really - WTBH. Then go to forums, scream "FC OP!" ... L2P man. The videomaker and the OP :(

    And anyone who thinks they were right needs to look at the video, and should not post here embarassing themselves. :(
  • DeciDeci Senior Member Posts: 234Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    JoCool wrote: »
    Kronos is right. The OP either needs to train a bit and get more experience with the game, or stop making such posts.

    Of course he lost, he gave away all initiative, such armies have no flexibility at all. And a ****** defense towards morale debuffing units.



    :(

    Agree. Were myself up against a spartan army last knight with my roman horde. I know its not macedonian footmen but its very good defensive-troops which will slaughter you if you frontal-charge them. That spartan horde consisted of lots of royalties, heroes and spartan hoplite-troops and I came with a fairly balanced army (2 praetorian cav though, only 2 praetorian guard and 2 arm legiona and 4 triarii). All the greeks have a defensive troops with lousy archers, so like you said - use that inflexibility they have (stated to everyone)

    I decided to bring 5 slingers and to 2 light scorpions to the fight, more ranged than i normally take, and what happend? His army just melted away under those cheap slingers, and everytime he tried to attack i some organized order I just backed away and continued to fire when he stopped. Then of course there is that inevitable clash with the melees but its a helluva lot easier after a long succesful skirmish.

    Ended in a decisivly win for me
  • JoCoolJoCool Senior Member Posts: 594Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Deci wrote: »
    Agree. Were myself up against a spartan army last knight with my roman horde. I know its not macedonian footmen but its **** good defensive-troops which will slaughter you if you frontal-charge them. That spartan horde consisted of lots of royalties, heroes and hoplite-troops and I came with a fairly balanced army. All the greeks have a defensive troops with ****ty archers, so like you said - use that inflexibility they have (stated to everyone)

    I decided to bring 5 slingers and to 2 light scorpions to the fight, more ranged than i normally take, and what happend? His army just melted away under those cheap slingers, and everytime he tried to attack i some organized order I just backed away and continued to fire when he stopped. Then of course there is that inevitable clash with the melees but its a helluva lot easier after a long succesful skirmish.
    See this guy. He knows what he's doing and also gives you smart advice. Like Daci says, skirmish happens before the battle. Not by shooting your own soldiers in the back once the lines are engaged. Cheap, fast spearmen with rapid advance and your own cav can even ensure your skirmishers safety for the few cav units your elitezerg opponent can afford - if he can even afford any. And if their heavies do not die right away, remember that they lose loads of hitpoints before the first fall.
  • MrPiggiMrPiggi Senior Member Posts: 435Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Guys, Macedons strength is in their pike units and cavalry. Their weakness is their skirmishers. No one plays Macedon to bring 4 or 5 archers or peltasts. You play it to bring 5, 6, 7 phalanx units, some cavalry, whatever else you fancy. This then highlights that their weakness is their inflexibility and immobility.

    I actually think the game is pretty balanced in multiplayer. Whilst I think some prices do need to be looked at for units, I think every faction has its ways to beat people, and its ways to be beaten.

    You need to approach every multiplayer battle with a dynamic outlook. If you see your opponent taking Parthia, adapt to it. Change your army lineup to deal with their superior cavalry and inferior infantry. If you see your opponent taking Macedon, again, adapt to it. Bring some artillery or ranged units to force them to come to you or just destroy them from afar.
  • Osmos1Osmos1 Senior Member Posts: 164Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Well this video portrays the Foot Companion Superiority. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGrUnFUmPY
  • MrPiggiMrPiggi Senior Member Posts: 435Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Osmos1 wrote: »
    Well this video portrays the Foot Companion Superiority. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGrUnFUmPY

    That video has nothing to do with foot companions...
  • HarbaHarba Senior Member Posts: 256Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    That video features the single most broken unit in the game, Spartan Pikemen.

    They cost 510 and unlike any other pikemen in the game they have 50 HP instead of 40, along with otherwise decent stats. They should cost at least 750 to make them balanced.

    As a faction Sparta is built around having more HP = toughness than other factions, but 50HP for that cost is just ridicilous.
    Clan GERUDO
    www.clangerudo.net
  • illapaillapa Member Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I know how to play the game I've but at least 400+ hours into EVERY total war game that has ever come out Since Shogun 1 except maybe Napoleon because I preferred Empire. I am NOT saying that Macedon is unbeatable I am saying that the fact that its even possible to spam 1 unit and put up a hard fight against a "real" army that plays to a faction's strengths, has combined arms, and is intelligently controlled is absurd.

    The Fact that my enemy ONLY brought companions, did not even go into phalanx mode, and was still hard to kill was just mind blowing for me and to me at least it illustrated that something was horribly wrong with foot companions because I was literally hammer and anviling them constantly with cataphracts while hitting them from the sides with the elite persian archers and parthian cavalry archers and it STILL took forever to crack them.
  • GRIMGORGRIMGOR Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    3 units of Foot Companions cost 970 x 3 = 2910
    3 units of African pikemen or Thorax pikemen cost 640 x 3 = 1920

    2910 - 1920 = 990

    With 990 you can buy 3 units of archers or 1 elite melee unit or 2 medium melee units

    The Macedon's player not going to charge their pikemen into other the pikemen in phalanx mode.

    Learn to flank!!!!!!!!!!
  • prehusseinprehussein Senior Member Posts: 576Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    You say you can flank and kill them within 20 sec, before your mid-tier unit eliminated? Mid tier units are usless against foot companions. Don't use them even for buying some time. They cannot buy you SOME time. Only 10 to 20 sec. That's way not enough. Just pull them back.
  • SpiriusSpirius Member Posts: 66Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Particular units upon a stretch of several factions can actually slaughter the Foot Companions. Simply use the right units against Macedon or any faction for that matter and you'll do fine.
  • GRIMGORGRIMGOR Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=176787462

    My galatian royal guards vs foot companions and yes they where in standing in phalanx formation.
  • prehusseinprehussein Senior Member Posts: 576Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Galatian royal guards is far from mid-tier unit. And I will test how long would they take frontal combat with FC dudes.

    OK. I tested and found that Galatian royal guards can actually win foot companions with frontal charge and move through order. These FC dudes cannot be quite effective against elite unit with some micro.

    So don't challenge foot companions with non-elite unit, but if you have decent elite unit and pike is moving, you might consider frontal charge is viable option.
  • KillingWargasmKillingWargasm Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    I just registered, but I have been playing Total War for many years now. I went into Rome 2 with much skill, I never found foot companions to be a challenge. I have played around 100 or so matches, never lost to Macedon. They are good against new players who charge head on, but that's about it. If you are losing consistently to Macedon. I recommend spectating for a bit. Obviously you need to be more patient and tactical in your thinking.
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