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Kii Province

skrzskrz Senior MemberPosts: 127Registered Users
edited February 2011 in Total War: Shogun 2
Yes ,to be warned ,this is just another STW2 historical accuracy failed thread!!!

So I was re-playing that hard running demo today and I had a little bit of a surprise when I conquered Kii province. I found out that the feature of this province is a burakumin village and indeed as stated in the encyclopaedia the provincial resource is ninjas.
Ok let me then explain my perplexion - Kii province was famous in that period for being the site of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negoroji , home of the famous negoro-gumi monks (matchlock warrior monks in the game)! So leaving aside my initial childish wish to have this warrior monks temples complex represented as a independent faction (country inside country style) witch you have to fight and subdue or have alliances and their help, I think that at least a hallowed ground feature should have beeen implemented for this province by CA! At Least!
PS: And don't ask me what this has to do with gameplay cuz sincerely it is above me, only some enlightened CA guy knows the answer
Post edited by skrz on

Comments

  • SkurkanasSkurkanas Senior Member Posts: 533Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    Annoyed me as well, however, the demo map is quite different from the real one. Different street connections, missing bridges and stuff like that.
    Wouldn't be surprised if Kii was a Ninja province here for gameplay reasons and will be accurately depicted as a Hallowed Ground in the final game.
    If not, many of those problems adressed at the moment will be fixed by mods in no time
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  • NecroNecro Senior Member Posts: 136Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    i think this may have been done for a balance reason, afaik the only "real" big ninja clans were iga and koga afaik, which would limit ninja buildings greatly.
  • NamuNamu Junior Member Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    First of all its wikipedia you are using as a source of information. There are some logical scepticism regarding that site. However, if what you are saying is ultimately true then it strikes me as odd, considering CA has missed out on an oppurtunity to toy with something unique. Yet you must not forget that CA might have come across this information and considered it irrelevant. CA has included tons of special features in their new game, and adding more and more might to some seem as too much.

    But as I said, I do agree with you, that it would have been fun if they were included. But you can't demand everything of them. Maybe some deemed them as unecessary, maybe there was too little information regarding the munks, maybe it didnt fit with the rest of the game, maybe they didn't have time, maybe no one wanted to take on this project and felt they were busy with other parts of the game.

    Decisions are made based on countless of factors and if you were to ****yze and understand a decision then you must be able to guess the possible reasons. If they simply missed out on this piece of history then they might choose to include it in a patch, I do think however its too late to implement it in the game since its soon being released.

    I'd also like to add that its the demo and not the finalized product. They might have noticed this and made a change, or not.
  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Posts: 7,075Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited February 2011
    Skurkanas wrote: »
    Annoyed me as well, however, the demo map is quite different from the real one. Different street connections, missing bridges and stuff like that.
    Wouldn't be surprised if Kii was a Ninja province here for gameplay reasons and will be accurately depicted as a Hallowed Ground in the final game.
    If not, many of those problems adressed at the moment will be fixed by mods in no time

    I don't think you need to mod immdiatly. If you adress such errors to CA, they will be glad to fix it. Unless they did it for balancing issues aka the whole Grand campaign map.
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  • skrzskrz Senior Member Posts: 127Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    Namu wrote: »
    First of all its wikipedia you are using as a source of information. There are some logical scepticism regarding that site. However, if what you are saying is ultimately true then it strikes me as odd, considering CA has missed out on an oppurtunity to toy with something unique. Yet you must not forget that CA might have come across this information and considered it irrelevant. CA has included tons of special features in their new game, and adding more and more might to some seem as too much.

    But as I said, I do agree with you, that it would have been fun if they were included. But you can't demand everything of them. Maybe some deemed them as unecessary, maybe there was too little information regarding the munks, maybe it didnt fit with the rest of the game, maybe they didn't have time, maybe no one wanted to take on this project and felt they were busy with other parts of the game.

    Decisions are made based on countless of factors and if you were to ****yze and understand a decision then you must be able to guess the possible reasons. If they simply missed out on this piece of history then they might choose to include it in a patch, I do think however its too late to implement it in the game since its soon being released.

    I'd also like to add that its the demo and not the finalized product. They might have noticed this and made a change, or not.

    Just read Turnbulls books on warrior monks, there are other books also but you have to go to a library. Turnbull is well known and has plenty e books, try him first
  • skrzskrz Senior Member Posts: 127Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    GrudgeNL wrote: »
    I don't think you need to mod immdiatly. If you adress such errors to CA, they will be glad to fix it. Unless they did it for balancing issues aka the whole Grand campaign map.

    Grudge ,Iga province borders Kii and it also has ninja as a resource
  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Posts: 7,075Registered Users, Cakes!
    edited February 2011
    skrz wrote: »
    Grudge ,Iga province borders Kii and it also has ninja as a resource

    Ofcourse, because in Iga, there are many ninja clans. Iga is the home province of the hattori Familiy. Hattori hanzo is a famous samurai and ninja. The Iga province is known also for ninjitsu schools.
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  • BBKenshinBBKenshin Member Posts: 93Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    I think the reason it is not hallowed ground is for campaign map balance, if you look, Yamato and Ise right next to it both have hallowed ground, housing japans largest temple and a massive shinto shrine complex respectively, I guess they thought they couldn't put 3 hallowed ground next to each other so left out the smallest one? Yes they do have 3 ninja resources next to each other but iirc these are the only 3 ninja resources on the map.
  • SanjuroSanjuro Senior Member U.K.Posts: 1,059Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    Namu wrote: »
    First of all its wikipedia you are using as a source of information. There are some logical scepticism regarding that site.

    Thank you, it's always nice to see people raise the issue of Wikipedia reliability! :)
  • skrzskrz Senior Member Posts: 127Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Thank you, it's always nice to see people raise the issue of Wikipedia reliability! :)

    I just posted the wiki link because it's the first one that comes out in the search and it's quite relevant I can tell you, if you don't believe me do some research for yourself. And yes they probably made it for campaign map balance, it was too hard to search for a Hojo province to be home to the Fuma Ninja Clan and easier to just transform historical reality.
  • Maeda ToshiieMaeda Toshiie Senior Member Posts: 3,534Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    skrz wrote: »
    Just read Turnbulls books on warrior monks, there are other books also but you have to go to a library. Turnbull is well known and has plenty e books, try him first

    I won't use Turnbull as a serious source...

    And I state above in all seriousness.
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  • skrzskrz Senior Member Posts: 127Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    I won't use Turnbull as a serious source...

    And I state above in all seriousness.

    Well he is the most available/easy-to-reach source on Japanese history out there (plus his books have nice drawings :))) but as I said before if you want more in-depth go to a public library. Negoro-ji set of temples and their "warrior" history are a fact whatever the source! http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2516963
  • Kaiman49Kaiman49 Member Posts: 56Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Thank you, it's always nice to see people raise the issue of Wikipedia reliability! :)

    *side note*Ah, bull ****! People hate on wiki for no reason at all!

    I was reading some info the other day, and after a recent check it was noted the accuracy rate of the articles was about 90%! (I'll go find my source for that)
    I study med, and much of what's in my text books can be found there...

    *on topic* it was prob for balancing reasons..
  • ranknfileranknfile Senior Member Posts: 6,807Registered Users
    edited February 2011
    skrz wrote: »
    Well he is the most available/easy-to-reach source on Japanese history out there (plus his books have nice drawings :))) but as I said before if you want more in-depth go to a public library. Negoro-ji set of temples and their "warrior" history are a fact whatever the sorce! http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2516963

    A nice read:

    http://www.samurai-archives.com/bsj.html
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