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Cut content from Rome 1

Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior MemberPosts: 225Registered Users
edited February 2014 in Total War: ROME II
Cut from Rome I

- Family tree
- Fleshed out general speeches
- Faction intros
- Several buildings and types of infrastructure (roads...etc)
- Selectable guard mode
- Fire at will ability for units with pila
- Proper testudo formation
- Music by the beloved and award winning Jeff van Dyck*
- Two turns per year*
- Seasons
- Provincial economic management of cities (set tax rate for each city...etc)
- City view
- Tons of historical battles
- Several diplomatic options (accept or we will attack, city gifting, map information...etc.)
- Unit transfer between armies without generals (also no scouting detachments because of this)
- Several types of statistics (army comparison, populations size...etc.)
- Nonrestricted army size*
- Nonrestricted number of buildings*
- Leader characterization
- Culture specific advisors
- Loose and tight formation
- Ability to garrison buildings (as shown in trailer and represented in E:TW)
- Spanish and Italian voice acting in the respective versions of the game
- Several types of ingame videos (when conquering a settlement with wonder...etc)
- Ability to upgrade walls
- Less 2D art in the campaign (buildings...etc)
- Several structures not shown on the 3D map (mines, volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, roads...etc.)
- Unit recruitment affecting demographics and economics
- Several sound effects (barbarian warcries, screeching...etc)
- Ability to move capitals
- Internal trading between cities
- Senate missions
- Unit sapping
- 600 turn long campaign in total*
- Drag and drop of unit cards to merge units
- Historical events
- Fertility systems
- Global chat loby
- Ability to have units change between primary and secondary weapons
- Bulding repairs after battles
- Maximum unit size of 243 men*
- Seperate names for cities and the regions they are in
- Religion
- Ability to choose which units to reinforce after losing men in battle
- Some graphical effects on the campaign map (scorched earth, merceneries...etc)
- Free for all ability in mulitplayer
- Visual aging of characters
- Diplomats
- Year information when loading into the campaign
- Migrations (BI)
- Ability to automate management of each induvidual city.
- Watch towers in the campaign map
- Multicultural cities
- Information on number of units on unit cards
- Culture-specific music (barbarian victory...etc)
- Tons of maps in the custom battle mode
- Selectable faction heir
- Modifier for distance from capital
- Cinematic view when your general dies in battle and when the wall/gate is breached.
- Units no longer push siege equipment,
- Units no longer climb towers
- Elephants no longer throw soldiers around (see here)
- Proper lighting in night battles (see here)
- Working replay function

*Some forum users have stressed that these feature are design choices rather than cut content. As the OP, I disagree with them. Van dyck, two turns per year etc. were popular design choices of Rome 1. In addition, the respective design chices of Rome 2 have obviously put a considerably less work load upon the CA developers and/or they are cheaper sollutions compared to what was the case with Rome 1. They are cheaper and more streamlined design choices and therefore I call it cut content.

Better implemented in Rome I

- Unit cohesion (phalanx formation severly entangled because of this)
- Mod friendlieness
- Siege AI
- Facial animations in the campaign map

Let me know if I missed something.

Since alle these features were part of one of the most popular and highly rated stratgy games of all time (a ten year old game!), why did they remove all of them? Why did they remove these features in a game that is supposed to have more features? Why is CA changing a winning game? Is the economy worse for CA these days?
Post edited by Der Phönix on
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Comments

  • WillensKraftWillensKraft Senior Member Posts: 337Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    - working AI :)
    (-) overall less units? The majority is copy&paste + new colours..
    R2D2 gets upgraded with the Rome II AI
    http://i.imgur.com/kEWNYcF.gif

    Disclaimer: the post above is way way pre-alpha, the final version will be way way better than this.
  • silveronesilverone Senior Member Posts: 165Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Don't get me wrong I liked Rome 1 but If I would make a list what Rome 1 didn't have but we have now at Rome 2 the list woud be similar long. Starting with Vanilla rome has 4 faction (Rome family 1,2,3,4, same army with different colors, and yes you can unlock but the depth wasnt the same with them in the campaign) vs now (how many ? I couldn't count sorry.)
  • Grave DiggerGrave Digger Senior Member Posts: 131Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    With the perma-blinking cinematic camera button screaming for my attention I'm very confused about the missing speaches as they could have used their beloved cinematic camera for that perfectly.
    Part of the 2%!
  • amenallah1992amenallah1992 Senior Member Posts: 584Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    i don't know how rome II is supposed to be a sequel to the mighty rome total war if they removed so many god **** features and added some ****** ones , it has almost nothing in common with it's predecessor , and doesn't honor it's name 9 years later .
    also let me add

    -loose and tight units formation
    -this is trivial but it kinda annoys me : there's one and only roman military advisor for all the factions , i don't know how you feel about it but it's kinda weird for to seea roman advisor when playing with a barbarian faction , and he provides 0 help , unlike the advisors in rome I who tell you you're being flanked , your cavalry is being attacked by spearmen etc..
    -no interesting videos in the campaign
    and list goes on ..
    TIME , the devourer of everything .
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    silverone wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong I liked Rome 1 but If I would make a list what Rome 1 didn't and We have now at Rome 2 the list woud be similar long. Starting with Vanilla rome has 4 faction (Rome famili 1,2,3,4) vs now (how many ? I couldnt count sorry.)

    Well, it would kind of strange if they didn't add new features at all wouldn't it? I'm not really understanding your argument here. Nevertheless, this thread is about why they cut so much content from Rome 1 in a game that is supposed to evolve from it.
  • LenixLenix Junior Member Posts: 10Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    In the Carthage trailer it looked as though buildings could be garrisoned by units like archers and such. I think this was even mentioned in one of the interviews. Unless I'm mistaken this feature (which was in previous games like Empire) didn't make it in.
  • EndovellicusEndovellicus Senior Member Posts: 1,494Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Let me know if I missed something.

    You have said almost everything. That I remember, I miss:

    - More videos (like when you conquered a settlement with a wonder).
    - Easily unlockable factions.

    And this may be less important to people outside our countries but here it is very important:

    - Translated voices for all units in Spanish and Italian versions of the game.
  • DalamarthDalamarth Senior Member Posts: 202Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I'm so sick of people claiming General speeches aren't in the game. PAY ATTENTION.
  • amenallah1992amenallah1992 Senior Member Posts: 584Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    You have said almost everything. That I remember, I miss:

    - More videos (like when you conquered a settlement with a wonder).
    - Easily unlockable factions.

    And this may be less important to people outside our countries but here it is very important:

    - Translated voices for all units in Spanish and Italian versions of the game.

    you can find a mod in TWcenter that unlocks all the factions you know ..;)
    TIME , the devourer of everything .
  • amenallah1992amenallah1992 Senior Member Posts: 584Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Dalamarth wrote: »
    I'm so sick of people claiming General speeches aren't in the game. PAY ATTENTION.

    lol , i heard them , and they're a joke compared to those in rome I . and how is it supposed to be immersive and set the ambiance for you if there's no video for them ?? am i supposed to hear these speeches written by my grand ma when i start the battle ??
    TIME , the devourer of everything .
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    i don't know how rome II is supposed to be a sequel to the mighty rome total war if they removed so many god **** features and added some ****** ones , it has almost nothing in common with it's predecessor , and doesn't honor it's name 9 years later .
    also let me add

    -loose and tight units formation
    -this is trivial but it kinda annoys me : there's one and only roman military advisor for all the factions , i don't know how you feel about it but it's kinda weird for to seea roman advisor when playing with a barbarian faction , and he provides 0 help , unlike the advisors in rome I who tell you you're being flanked , your cavalry is being attacked by spearmen etc..
    -no interesting videos in the campaign
    and list goes on ..
    Lenix wrote: »
    In the Carthage trailer it looked as though buildings could be garrisoned by units like archers and such. I think this was even mentioned in one of the interviews. Unless I'm mistaken this feature (which was in previous games like Empire) didn't make it in.
    You have said almost everything. That I remember, I miss:

    - More videos (like when you conquered a settlement with a wonder).
    - Easily unlockable factions.

    And this may be less important to people outside our countries but here it is very important:

    - Translated voices for all units in Spanish and Italian versions of the game.

    All added to the list!
  • BrassBrass Senior Member Posts: 153Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I'd add unit fatigue.
    Of course it's still there, but it seems to be there more for show.

    Unit recruitment affecting population has been cut too.
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,282Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Some others that come to my mind
    -Ability to upgrade wall: no wall, wood palisade, short walls, epic walls.
    -Lack of minor buildings on campaign map (mines, ports..)
    -Lack of wonders on battle map (only pyramids in Rome II)
    -Lack of 2d arts for buildings; quick example:
    rometw2011092217203107.jpg
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Dalamarth wrote: »
    I'm so sick of people claiming General speeches aren't in the game. PAY ATTENTION.

    I changed it to fleshed out general speeches for your convenience
  • carlostibcarlostib Junior Member Posts: 14Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Dalamarth wrote: »
    I'm so sick of people claiming General speeches aren't in the game. PAY ATTENTION.

    You must pay attention it seems, as it was said before in this thread that general speeches don't make use of the cinematic camera. Yeah, you have a "general speech" in Rome 2, which by the way is very repetitive, short, and is not customized for the current situation in the battle or the faction you're fighting to as was done in Rome 1, is just a general thing in Rome 2 for few seconds and that's it. Really shameful for a game that supposedly had 40 or 60% (don't remember exactly the god**** figure) more budget than Shogun 2.
  • EndovellicusEndovellicus Senior Member Posts: 1,494Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    you can find a mod in TWcenter that unlocks all the factions you know ..;)

    I know, and I appreciate the modders' work. :) It was just a complain about how things are going with games these days. It is all based on dlcs to squeeze the costumers and a lot of patches to add to an incomplete game.

    Those little things were what made that 1st Rome TW was an great game for me. Now it seems that without patches, dlcs or mods the games are nothing.
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Brass wrote: »
    I'd add unit fatigue.
    Of course it's still there, but it seems to be there more for show.

    Unit recruitment affecting population has been cut too.
    Vastator wrote: »
    Some others that come to my mind
    -Ability to upgrade wall: no wall, wood palisade, short walls, epic walls.
    -Lack of minor buildings on campaign map (mines, ports..)
    -Lack of wonders on battle map (only pyramids in Rome II)
    -Lack of 2d arts for buildings; quick example:

    Added!

    God this is is turning into a massive list. Would love to see a comparioson between the budget for Rome 1 and Rome 2...
  • amenallah1992amenallah1992 Senior Member Posts: 584Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I know, and I appreciate the modders' work. :) It was just a complain about how things are going with games these days. It is all based on dlcs to squeeze the costumers and a lot of patches to add to an incomplete game.

    Those little things were what made that 1st Rome TW was an great game for me. Now it seems that without patches, dlcs or mods the games are nothing.

    yes , unfortunately , this seems to be the direction that everyone is heading to , especially the guys SEGA/ cA . dishonest folks they are my friend , and then a guy from cA show up and mocks us right in the face telling us shogun II was the most moddable total war game to date , and that hey have the same plans for Rome II...
    TIME , the devourer of everything .
  • MetallisticMetallistic Senior Member Posts: 172Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    - Family tree
    - Faction intros
    - Provincial economic management of cities
    - Several diplomatic options (accept or we will attack..etc.)
    - Several types of statistics (army comparison...etc.)
    - Leader characterization
    - Easily unlockable factions

    All of these things are in Rome II. Not to mention that the new province system adds way more depth than the good old random plonking of buildings, which had no real negative effect even if you did it wrong. No sacrifice, no real choice to be made. Also, don't forget the new food resource which adds another level of complexity on its own. Keeping your provinces in check now requires a lot more planning rather than spamming farms and trade posts. And I am not even delving into how much more effective the province managing interface is.

    As for the rest of the features... Are some of them poorly represented in the game? Certainly. But they are still in the game to a certain degree and as I mentioned in my previous paragraph - some of them lot better than Rome 1 had to offer...
  • BethrezenBethrezen Senior Member Posts: 271Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    I don't know for sure if these are really missing, but I didn't see them in my finished Parthian campaign:
    - city view option;
    - barbarian warcries / screeching; voices, in general (barbarians in Rome 2 have horrible voices...);
    - city gifting / exchange through diplomacy
  • TheLulzbatBeginsTheLulzbatBegins Member Posts: 49Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    - working AI :)
    (-) overall less units? The majority is copy&paste + new colours..

    Unpatched ai in rome was as much ******ed (if not worse) as the ai in rome 2 in fact it had some of the same exact bugs like not attacking in sieges or sending its units back and forward while you pummel them with arrows.
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    All of these things are in Rome II. Not to mention that the new province system adds way more depth than the good old random plonking of buildings, which had no real negative effect even if you did it wrong. No sacrifice, no real choice to be made. Also, don't forget the new food resource which adds another level of complexity on its own. Keeping your provinces in check now requires a lot more planning rather than spamming farms and trade posts. And I am not even delving into how much more effective the province managing interface is.

    As for the rest of the features... Are some of them poorly represented in the game? Certainly. But they are still in the game to a certain degree and as I mentioned in my previous paragraph - some of them lot better than Rome 1 had to offer...

    I mostly don't agree with you here. Family trees in the game?

    Irl, why the heck would you build something if excludes building something else? When you build something, it's becuase you need that thing. I sacrificed as h*ll playing Rome 1. Tons of buldings, little monney. That's the way it should be.
  • Grave DiggerGrave Digger Senior Member Posts: 131Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    - Easily unlockable factions

    Buy a DLC and unlock 3 factions. Sounds easy to me.

    :D
    Part of the 2%!
  • MetallisticMetallistic Senior Member Posts: 172Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Irl, why the heck would you build something if excludes building something else? When you build something, it's becuase you need that thing. I sacrificed as h*ll playing Rome 1. Tons of buldings, little monney. That's the way it should be.

    "Irl"?

    I rest my case.
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    "Irl"?

    I rest my case.

    In real life
  • silveronesilverone Senior Member Posts: 165Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Well, it would kind of strange if they didn't add new features at all wouldn't it? I'm not really understanding your argument here. Nevertheless, this thread is about why they cut so much content from Rome 1 in a game that is supposed to evolve from it.

    Well

    - Family tree -

    Yes I miss family tree also.

    - General speeches -

    I have heard general speeches in rome 2 too maybe rome 1 has better one but it isn"t cut it is there.

    - Faction intros -

    I am not sure about this but as I remember vanilla Rome has only 4 faction 4 family so I can unterstand reason behind this they couln't and don't want to make so many intros for so many different nation it would have been nice if they would have done.

    - Several buildings and types of infrastructure (roads...etc)

    (Matter of preference/design choice) I personally didn't miss roads and this type of upgrades it was in my first few things I upgraded when a city didn't have it didn't add more to game for me It felt as more depth at first but after a while It was just the first some tedious things to do. If I had tons of towns and I had to cicle through my cities to check where its missing or not and click on every road upgrade.

    - Selectable guard mode

    Its missing I don't know why true.

    - Fire at will ability for units with pila

    - Proper testudo formation

    Its not cut but maybe not working as intend.

    - Music by Jeff van Dyck

    Matter or preference also. I like the new music too.

    - Two turns per year - Seasons

    (Design choice , its not a feature) difference your characters age faster, and no seasons .

    Seasons would be nice and ... there is a mod already makes 2/4 turn per year but I wouln't like to use it because this era covers a lot longer timeline than previous TW games so if there will be more than 1 turn a year you would may beat the game at the early time of this era. If we would have an option what year we start our campaign than yes 2,4 turn /year would work.

    - Provincial economic management of cities
    (Design choice) You have to manage your economy and happines of your cities here to but not the same way as in rome 1.

    - City view

    Don't remember this function and yes Rome 2 don't have .

    - Tons of historical battles

    Yes there was more than in Rome 2 but I don't think it was a lot more maybe after mods and expansions?

    - Several diplomatic options (accept or we will attack..etc.)

    I am missing more diplomatic options too. For example I don't wanna have war with my fellow barbarian tribe but there is no diplomatic option other than wipe them out to finish the war( or at least I couldn't find any diplomatic solution yet) can't make them happy with gifts of offerings like previous tw games ( yes I could pay but that is not fun :) )so we could make a peace treaty at the end.

    - Unit trasfer between armies without generals - Nonrestricted army size

    With this system you don't need transfer you can recruit anywhere whitin your border so If I wanna transfer still than its not a big deal If I need a general for it. At this point I wanna mention I like the limited army and garrison design of rome 2 than previous tw games I always hate when I had to keep a third or half stack of army at my every city to feel safe because there was so many enemy armies around and a city without an army couldn't hold long not to mention the population unhappiness.

    - Several types of statistics (army comparison...etc.)

    Yes, I am so missing the war statistic screens and the world overview how powerful wich faction. Maybe that wasn't in rome 1 I don't remember was it?

    - Nonrestricted number of buildings

    Hmm, interesting there wasn't limit for buildings I remember every tw games has a limit of buildings depends on the city level. Maybe I am wrong.

    - Leader characterization

    But we got agents and general traits upgrades.

    So summ it up . Only two or three feature I miss from the list what is Cut for me compared to Rome 1.
    It is my prefenrence and I played every TW game since shogun 1.

    There are some more feature I am missing though from previous tw games like "agent action videos" More complex trading etc, but we got new features also I like.
  • VastatorVastator Senior Member Posts: 1,282Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    A minor thing: in Rome I grass can be depressed, when you walk with your chariots, elepahnts or other heavy unit.

    Are there proper bridge battles in Rome II, like the Rome I ones?
    Disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
    Also because i don't work for The Creative Assembly or SEGA.


    Creator of "Vastator Unit Style" for Shogun 2: Here or here
  • Der PhönixDer Phönix Senior Member Posts: 225Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    silverone wrote: »
    - Proper testudo formation

    Its not cut but maybe not working as intend.

    That's why I said proper
    - Music by Jeff van Dyck

    Matter or preference also. I like the new music too.

    The new music is not bad, but why did they move away from Dyck? The new music is definetively not BETTER than Dyck's.
    - Two turns per year - Seasons

    Arguably not a design choice, but something that was left out becuase of time and money.
    - Tons of historical battles

    Yes there was more than in Rome 2 but I don't think it was a lot more maybe after mods and expansions?

    There were a lot more before expnsions and mods came.
    - Several diplomatic options (accept or we will attack..etc.)

    I am missing more diplomatic options too. For example I don't wanna have war with my fellow barbarian tribe but there is no diplomatic option other than wipe them out to finish the war( or at least I couldn't find any diplomatic solution yet) can't make them happy with gifts of offerings like previous tw games ( yes I could pay but that is not fun :) )so we could make a peace treaty at the end.

    Added
    - Unit trasfer between armies without generals - Nonrestricted army size

    With this system you don't need transfer you can recruit anywhere whitin your border so If I wanna transfer still than its not a big deal If I need a general for it. At this point I wanna mention I like the limited army and garrison design of rome 2 than previous tw games I always hate when I had to keep a third or half stack of army at my every city to feel safe because there was so many enemy armies around and a city without an army couldn't hold long not to mention the population unhappiness.

    It is a big deal when you want to transfer units between armies without moving your generals. Beside, the units will loose all experience.
    - Several types of statistics (army comparison...etc.)

    Yes, I am so missing the war statistic screens and the world overview how powerful wich faction. Maybe that wasn't in rome 1 I don't remember was it?

    It was in Rome 1
    - Nonrestricted number of buildings

    Hmm, interesting there wasn't limit for buildings I remember every tw games has a limit of buildings depends on the city level. Maybe I am wrong.

    Technology and population size were the only limiting factors in Rome1
    There are some more feature I am missing though from previous tw games like "agent action videos" More complex trading etc, but we got new features also I like.

    What do you mean by more complex trading?
  • ArthasmenethrilArthasmenethril Senior Member Posts: 183Registered Users
    edited September 2013
    Proper testudo do you mean it not stopping Ranged attacks as well compared to running or walking or how the shields are placed like Front and above instead of the more well known Front sides and above because i think the Romans would have more then one depending on the situation.

    also "Nonrestricted army size" i'd rather have that then fighting a ton of 1-4 unit armys just to clear my land or to see a small nation produce a large army for a small place or am i reading it wrong?
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