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Please fix the REPLAY bug (essential for tournaments, youtube casting)

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  • alQamaralQamar Banned Posts: 1,904Banned Users
    edited October 2013
    very good idea! I would also like to know what would happen if I load your replay then if this would have a different outcome from your both videos aswell. You can mail me if you like
  • Ace_BlazerAce_Blazer Senior Member Toronto, CanadaPosts: 5,918Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Robert CA wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    It appears we may have found the cause of this issue. It appears that if you fought a battle with ranked units, these ranks do not get taken into account in a replay. For instance if you have a fully upgraded Oathsworn unit, this would only be counted as a regular Oathsworn unit in the replay; thus, units that didn't die in the battle because of their rank might die during the replay, changing the course and possible outcome of the battle.

    This has been reported to the developers, and we're hoping for a fix in the near future. We're sorry for any inconvenience this may be causing for you all!

    If however you don't believe this is the cause of your issue also make sure your opponent also didn't have ranked units, if not please respond :)

    Thanks for your patience.

    Regards,

    Rob

    Woooooow, players already reported this as the most probable reason for bugged replays way back in Shogun 2, and it was a decently big thread. I'm glad to know you figured it out yourselves, but this could have been prevented if you had listened to us in 2011.
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  • Pattonfan123Pattonfan123 Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    I am super you know what. The replay is totally out of whack. In my battle where I fought with the Greeks against the Seleucids we dominated. But the replay shows my guys doing stuff I didn't tell them to do and show me getting wiped out. Even the previous Total Wars didn't have that problem.
  • OrgetorixOrgetorix Junior Member Posts: 2Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Oh, fix the replays, gies!
  • DeciDeci Senior Member Posts: 235Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    I am super you know what. The replay is totally out of whack. In my battle where I fought with the Greeks against the Seleucids we dominated. But the replay shows my guys doing stuff I didn't tell them to do and show me getting wiped out. Even the previous Total Wars didn't have that problem.

    Shogun2 had for awhile too, and the community raged about it back then. But im starting to wonder if CA also did miss company of heroes2 which also gott released with a huge nerf in its online compartment and a broken replay-system, just like rome2 got, which made the fanbase very upset. I am getting tired of this kind of development
  • ][G][Mojoman][G][Mojoman Member Posts: 62Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    As promised, here's a recording and replay. You can watch them side by side if you have TW in windowed mode, to see how they differ. Apologies for the ****ty video quality.

    The YouTube video is how the actual battle played out of course. The replay is not.

    Replay:
    replaytest.repla.replay


    Major differences:

    6:30-6:20 (in the replay)
    • The Macedonian player's Sarissa Cav in the center fails to rout.
    • It proceeds to chase my cavalry as they retreat behind my hoplites.
    • In the YouTube recording, the Sarissa Cav routs and doesn't chase anything.

    4:30 - 4:10
    1. My cavalry manage to catch two of the Macedonian player's skirmishers, causing them to rout.
    2. In the YouTube recording, all of the Macedonian player's skirmishers manage to retreat behind his pikemen before my cav can catch them.

    3:50 - 3:30
    • My elephants run amok, but in a completely different direction to the one seen in the YouTube video.

    3:10 - 2:10
    • The Macedonian player's archers are outside of his pikebox. This did not happen in the actual game, as you can see from the video.
    • My cav target one of the archers outside the box and successfully chase it down. Again, this didn't happen in the actual battle.
    • My cav then go full ****** and charge directly into a pikewall. In the actual battle, they exploited a gap in the Macedonian player's pikebox to get through into his skirmishers.
    • This obviously has something to do with the earlier problem of one of his skirmishers being outside the box. The CPU copied my commands accurately (targeting the skirmisher), but because it was outside the box, my cav didn't go through the gap in the pikebox as they did in the YouTube recording.
  • Ace_BlazerAce_Blazer Senior Member Toronto, CanadaPosts: 5,918Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    The replays are even worse than I thought post patch 4. I wonder if it's some kind of massive timing issue, because a lot of battles I play are team battles where the game lags like crazy. The replays are showing me orders and commands I had never seen before, and it had nothing to do with upgrades gained in battle.
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  • Robert CARobert CA The Creative Assembly Posts: 236Registered Users, Moderators, Tech Moderators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    edited October 2013
    Hello ][G][Mojoman,

    The replay desyncs just after the death of one your bronze rank slingers in the first few minutes in the game, from there on the chain of events will change slightly because of the desync.

    Do you have any recent replays that have desynced where none of the players have ranked units?

    And in response to Ace Blazer. It's possible there may be a separate issue for the replays being out of sync in team battles, could you, if possible, attach any replays that don't play out the same way as the battle so I can take a look :)

    Thanks!

    Rob,
    My initial response to a post is generated from a template – this is to ensure I receive the information I require to progress forward with your issue.

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  • cvchcvch Senior Member Posts: 138Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Robert CA wrote: »
    Hello ][G][Mojoman,

    The replay desyncs just after the death of one your bronze rank slingers in the first few minutes in the game, from there on the chain of events will change slightly because of the desync.

    Do you have any recent replays that have desynced where none of the players have ranked units?

    And in response to Ace Blazer. It's possible there may be a separate issue for the replays being out of sync in team battles, could you, if possible, attach any replays that don't play out the same way as the battle so I can take a look :)

    Thanks!

    Rob,
    Robert I believe the issue is that when units rank up DURING the battle, this is not taken into account, I would also take a look into special abilities effects during replays as in some of them I have noticed that the general´s abilities are not activated during the replay ^^
  • Ace_BlazerAce_Blazer Senior Member Toronto, CanadaPosts: 5,918Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Hi Robert,

    I've got a couple of replays here, but I'm not able to show a live casting so their I'm only able to point out a couple of things. I'll try to have one up on YouTube for my next team battle.

    Replay #1: I am Pontus. I can see where things go horribly wrong. The Spartan citizen cav routs when it shouldn't, so I send my own citizen cav to chase it and it gets stuck with the infantry, causing a whole mess of problems. I'm not sure why there are Spartan infantry attacking my Pontic royal cav at 4:54 left though, I don't remember that happening at all.

    Replay #2: This isn't my replay as I desync'd from the battle. I am the allied Macedonian although the AI takes over for me once we form a cavalry line to charge the Carthaginian. In my friends replay around 00:30 left, my cavalry charge right through his own pikes, and ends up pushing his pikes into the Carthaginians which was rather comical. In the replay I view (which is a direct copy of his!), my cavalry just sit in the back watching the Carthaginians die, and I don't think it has to do with non-existent units. I'll see if I can have my friend upload a YouTube replay.
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  • Robert CARobert CA The Creative Assembly Posts: 236Registered Users, Moderators, Tech Moderators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    edited October 2013
    Thanks for the replays Ace Blazer,

    On further inspection however some factions have ranked units on both replays. The Spartans have ranked units in the first replay, and the Carthaginians have ranked units in the second replay.

    This is most likely the cause of the replays being out of sync. After further testing in-house it appears to be working correctly now. So hopefully they should be fixed in a future patch.

    Also just to mention to EVERYONE. We have encountered another instance where replays will desync:

    I mentioned the other day that replays will desync if you use units with experience, this occurs in both multiplayer & campaign, but we've also found another instance which is campaign specific.

    Anything that can increase a unit's base stats, such as armour/weapon upgrades & general traits will not be accounted for when viewing a replay of a battle where the units had a stat increase.

    The replay doesn't take the stat increase into account, and as such will only load the battle with those units and their base stats. This causes the battle to play out different because units who would have had an advantage in battle, because of their stats, no longer have that advantage.

    We are hoping for a fix on the latter very soon.

    Regards,

    Rob
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  • alQamaralQamar Banned Posts: 1,904Banned Users
    edited October 2013
    Great news Robert! I wish you and the CA team a good weekend!
  • GeongusGeongus Senior Member Posts: 280Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Yup I want to see this fixed too.
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  • Robert CARobert CA The Creative Assembly Posts: 236Registered Users, Moderators, Tech Moderators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    edited October 2013
    Hello everyone!

    As of Patch 5 replays should now be a little more stable! We encountered one of the major causes of them being out of sync, which was the replays not accounting for the stat bonuses from experienced units in battles. As such it ignored this stat upgrade, which is why your replays were probably playing out differently.

    Unfortunately, as updated the other day, we encountered another instance where replays would play out of sync. Please see the below quote for more information. This is only an issue in multiplayer/single player campaign:

    Robert CA wrote: »
    Thanks for the replays Ace Blazer,

    On further inspection however some factions have ranked units on both replays. The Spartans have ranked units in the first replay, and the Carthaginians have ranked units in the second replay.

    This is most likely the cause of the replays being out of sync. After further testing in-house it appears to be working correctly now. So hopefully they should be fixed in a future patch.

    Also just to mention to EVERYONE. We have encountered another instance where replays will desync:

    I mentioned the other day that replays will desync if you use units with experience, this occurs in both multiplayer & campaign, but we've also found another instance which is campaign specific.

    Anything that can increase a unit's base stats, such as armour/weapon upgrades & general traits will not be accounted for when viewing a replay of a battle where the units had a stat increase.

    The replay doesn't take the stat increase into account, and as such will only load the battle with those units and their base stats. This causes the battle to play out different because units who would have had an advantage in battle, because of their stats, no longer have that advantage.

    We are hoping for a fix on the latter very soon.

    Regards,

    Rob
    My initial response to a post is generated from a template – this is to ensure I receive the information I require to progress forward with your issue.

    Forum Terms & Conditions
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • FantaPandaFantaPanda Member Posts: 58Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Robert, thank you for the update

    Could you tell us how this is reoccurring? Back in Shogun 2 we had the same problem, caused by the same issue,experience bonus didnt accounted for correctly in replays. IIRC it was fixed in the first few patch, then broke again after 2 patches, then finally fixed.
  • HenyoHenyo Member Posts: 40Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Checked the replays in patch 5, replays are still not consistent. Example in my siege replays, my siege weapons were not able to destroy the walls ,even though I did in the actual battle, thus the replay just shows my men trying to walk through the city walls.
  • Ace_BlazerAce_Blazer Senior Member Toronto, CanadaPosts: 5,918Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Henyo do you think you could upload that replay with any details you think you can write about when it desyncs? It may or may not have to do with the current bug they just found.
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  • HenyoHenyo Member Posts: 40Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    It seems my artillery in the replay either do two things. One, they attack the wrong part of the wall and so no walls get taken down. The second thing they do is they do attack the walls but not enough of the shots hit the wall thus my men try fruitlessly to go through the damaged but still intact wall.

    I really think the replay bug is not due to the replay not saving the the experience of the units but the game just makes the replay very random. The replay is bound to screw up when its either a siege replay or if your battle seems to devolve into a melee mosh pit.
  • TSCTSC Senior Member Posts: 178Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    can you fix the replay like shogun2?
    I need to see my opponent's name in the replay,in army's info. And show the result of battle after the replay end.
  • El BanditoEl Bandito Senior Member Posts: 825Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    TSC wrote: »
    can you fix the replay like shogun2?
    I need to see my opponent's name in the replay,in army's info. And show the result of battle after the replay end.

    ^ This.

    I never use replay function for my YouTube videos because while it allows me to present my Multiplayer battles in higher graphics, it never lists the players' names, making it look like I am fighting against mere AI. (and the fact that some of my opponents being as competent as an AI does not help)


    Any way I can make the replay show player names?
  • zariptzaript Senior Member Posts: 996Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    Here replay from yesterdays semifinal of TWN flash tournament with desync log. It's easy to see how by the end some cav units just stay on the field, while they should be dead.
  • alQamaralQamar Banned Posts: 1,904Banned Users
    edited October 2013
  • ViivrabeViivrabe Senior Member Posts: 434Registered Users
    edited October 2013
    As far as I can tell

    Melee attack vs melee defense,
    Then melee damage vs armor if previous was exceeded
    Then remaining damage plus Armor piercing minus health

    Roll all this again if health > 0

    This is happening between every individual solder in combat.

    so if the stats are a fallows

    30 melee attack
    40 weapon damage (36 base +4 armor piercing)
    10 charge
    30 melee defense
    25 armor
    30 hp

    so rolling dice ill post my calculations ( http://www.roll-dice-online.com/ )
    scenario same unit against same unit
    named A and B


    A: melee attack roll = 2
    B: Defence roll = 18

    B takes no damage from A

    B: melee attack roll = 24
    A: Defence roll = 8
    Damage roll: 22 (rolled 30side + 6 side = 36 side )
    Armor roll: 21

    22-21 = 1 +(Ap value of 4)
    1+4 =5

    HP of A = 25
    HP of B = 30

    Start again

    A: attack =11
    B: defence = 3

    Damage roll 4(/30)+4(/6) = 8
    Armor roll = 7(/20)+1(/5) = 8

    0+4 armor pen = 4

    HP:a =25
    HP:b =26


    B: attack =13
    A:Defence = 26

    no damage doen to A

    A: attack = 20
    B defence = 23

    no damage done to B

    B: attack = 16
    A: defence = 7

    B:Damage= 25(/30) + 1(/6)
    A:Armor= 19(/20)+ 4(/5)

    26-23= 3
    3 + 4(AP) = 7

    HP:a = 18
    HP:b = 24


    etc. etc. etc.


    so when you take all that into consideration the replays have to re-roll all that information. meaning that one fight could end up completely different. for instance maybe one solder in the original game successfully blocked 3 attacks in a row but in the replay he got hit by the first 2 and died so the third attack is then applied to the next solder (meaning he looses 1 attack roll and potential did not do enough damage to another unit)

    now in unit scales of 120-160 that's very small, but may have snowballing effects.

    higher than average rolls on a charge from one group of men in the match could potentially shorten a battle so when that ends the unit is moved to attack another. but in the replay they got lower than average rolls so there were more men left so when the battle should have ended they are immediately ordered to attack a different unit resulting in them taking casualties because they are now "pulling out" which changes any farther calculations
    this may rout them so they never actually attack the third unit which may not break at all due to that but since in the original battle they did no farther orders are given to those men but any maneuvering around them could potentially effect farther calculations

    +moral effects from units routing/not routing
    + aura effects such as scare/ encourage
    +threats to flanks
    +unit moves through that unit resulting in combat




    this type of replay system worked in shogun 2 because there was no health just yes or no checks on weather or not an attack killed
    and units rarely lasted to low enough numbers for small deviations to snowball.

    you need to add more information to replays, such as when a unit routs, # kills on charge,when a general dies, elephants running amuck (and how they do so),

    correcting the stats may have gotten the average results closer together with what probably happened, but the potential for outliers on both sides (good and bad) (replay and in game) make just copying orders given a sure way to fail at this type of replay system
    Point is, there is a reason that the ESRB does not rate online [play].

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  • akinariakinari Junior Member Posts: 4Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    see this video of a live recorded battle and then the replay just afterwards.
    battle not the same and ending totally differently
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWPG8xlw_x0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUUwHHtlEtbZ8mius_JXGabw
  • RTK2LionalRTK2Lional Senior Member Posts: 154Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Viivrabe each random number generator has a random seed. If you save the random seed you should get the exact same sequence of "random" numbers (ofc these numbers are not random they just mimic randomness). I sincerely hope that CA did not make the noob mistake of not saving the random seed for each game.
  • alQamaralQamar Banned Posts: 1,904Banned Users
    edited November 2013
    I wonder if this problem will be fixed with Patch 7 it has been stated since 45 days, and even earlier by other people.
    Because it was most likely the same bug as in Shogun 2, with a proper code management shouldn't been that hard to fix it - hopefully.

    I have included this into my new directory of acknowledged but unresolved bugs.
    Afaik this is still persistent, yet it seem to be solved for CA with patch 5. Which is true?

    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/111768-Directory-of-open-MP-issues-partly-acknowleded-not-listed-in-the-known-bugs
  • zariptzaript Senior Member Posts: 996Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Issue still persists. I tried to cast replay for a first time since early release days and it didn't went well - by the end there were at least 4 ghost units on the field.

    Video.
    Replay.
  • alQamaralQamar Banned Posts: 1,904Banned Users
    edited November 2013
    thanks for the feedback zaript. I included this topic in my directory. If you or others are aware of more than the 3 acknowledged but unresolved issues please feel free to post them there.
  • LittleJohn_ver31LittleJohn_ver31 Member Posts: 85Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    I had some battles at patch7, and watched replays.
    It seems rome2 has reopened replay bug. at patch7.
    I am disappointed.
    Total war Rome2 Team Brotherhood Battle 24
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  • StormcrowStormcrow Junior Member Posts: 17Registered Users
    edited November 2013
    Among the TOP PRIORITY of things that need fixed ASAP. Replays are inaccurate thus unwatchable which makes them pointless until fixed and accurate replays of battles.
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