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SiWi's School for the helpful use of the Winds Magic to overcome your foes!

SiWISiWI Senior MemberPosts: 9,725Registered Users
edited March 2016 in General Discussion
Summary:

Introduction
First Post
Basic (stand 13.12.2015)
First Post

Empire: (stand 29.02.2016)
Lore of Heavens


Lore of Light
Bonus: Luminark of Hush


Balthasar Gelt and the Lore of Metal
Lore of Metal
Balthasar Gelt (stand: 16.02.2016)

Revisiting Balthasar Gelt

Battle Prayers

The Greenskins: (Stand 17.12.15)
Spells of da big WAAAGH!

Spell of DA little WAAAHG!


Lore of Death
1-4


High Level Spells
Azhag the Slaughterer


Update to the lore of Death, base on Azhags questbattle video.
Stand: 29.02.16

Contains also general informations about Energy.

Vampire Counts: (stand 24.03.16)

Vampire Lore

Death Lore

Shadow Lore

Update:
Vampire Lore
Mannfred von Carnstein
Heinrich Kemmel


Chaos Warriors (Stand 27.12.2015)

Lore of Fire

Lore of Metal

Lore of Death

Archaon the Eveerchosen

Dwarfs: (stand: 25.01.2016)
Anvil of Doom!

Bretonnia: 04.01.2016

Lore of Life

Lore of the Beast

Transformation of Kadon
Conclusion


Lore of the Heavens

Chain Lighting
Conclusion
Summary Bretonnia Magic


The Fay Enchantress
TT

TW
Conclusion


Empire main Lore's Overview
Fire Update: 12.01.16
Death
Shadow
Life
Beast


Tomb Kings: (stand: 25.01.2016)
The Lore of Nehekhara
Main Lore's Overview

Magical Units:
Casket of Souls
Hierotitans

Settra the imperishable

Grand Hierophant Khatep
Update: 14.02.16
Arkhan the Black:

Skaven:
General
Lore of Ruin


Lore of Plague

The Dreaded Thirteenth Spell


Ikit Claw

Grey Seer Thanquol

Lord Skrolk


Introduction:

Hello dear fellows!

While the game is still a bit away and we don't have all the information’s yet, but still I believe that those new to the winds of magic can’t start early enough to study them.

And to help those unfamiliar to those powers the 8 winds offer, I want give them a bit on inside of how these spell work in the TT, how CA will likely implement them (recent news shows a dedication to stay faithful to the source for all of this) and they uses to prevent your foes to overcome you.

In order to do this great work to the greatest care, I will not just talk about the lores and spells, not just about possible uses in field or siege battles, but also how different a lore could be in one army and how it changes in the use of another army.

Should other with knowledge of those arts, disagree what I have to say, come raise your voice and an eventually glass of wine or beer jug for the discussion my friends.
The great mysteries of those arts are too big and too much in flow to be appeared by just one mind.

Now now, let’s begin...

Not by a lore for a race, but with some more fundamentally knowledge.


Basics:

The spells can be categorized into three big groups:

Damage,
Destroy your foes, with strange and unbound forces.

Augments,
Make the dime light in the inner of your men burn with the heat of thousand suns.

Hexes,
Make enemy steel dull, arms weak and mind desperate!

While all of these have they own advantages, this maestro believes that one has a advantages neither of the other has.
The one I talk is the group of the Augments. All your enemies are known to magic will have seen it many times and often used it themselves. Thou it is to little surprises that few, if any of your foes, will be unprepared for it.
Be it the natural resistance of Dwarfs or banners or items they use. They will tweak the might of your spells even before they are in effect.
Augments on the other hand are not affected by those. They don't need to over come the enemy's attempts of defence, by the simple fact that they don't be cast on those, but your own.

This is both lesson and warning: I firmly believe the truth in my argument and so it may hinder my judgement of the strengths of spells of damage and hex and those who are augments.

There a certain things we don’t know enough details for judgment.
That is important especially for the duration of spells. In the TT, most spells last “till the next magic phase”. How much time this is in TW, is unknown and it is quite likely that CA will not all spells last the same length, even they would in the TT.
Additionally there is the concept of “remains in play”, which means that it doesn’t end once cast, as long the enemy doesn’t dispel. Since the game is missing the dispel mechanic, I will assume that they will last long, but not forever.

Another point which is a bit unknown is the relative cost of each spell. For that reason I will just name the TT price of energy and let people set this in perspective themselves.

To the general way 8th lore’s are to say that they contain 7 spells, one of them is the signature spell which in the game every spellcaster seem to have.
Additionally have all “modern” lore’s attributes which modify they spell in same way. Those appear to be “skill able” as well in the Game and perhaps need to be unlocking first.

But enough of the basics let us finally begin with the first race!
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Post edited by SiWI on
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Comments

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    Empire

    And which race would be better for the start than our glorious Empire! Praise Sigma and Magnus the faithful to the might and variety of the empire magic colleagues!
    At least we could thank him, if the last anniversary party of the colleges wouldn't some unpleasant side effects and hindered 5 of the 8 to actually serve the empire, though the hangovers they suffer.
    Well let's talk of those we have with us and let the others join later!

    Thou they are at the moment a bit reduce, they still are a worthy tool in the hands of a willing and cable commander.

    The first which is to talk about is the
    Lore of the Heavens, which use they knowledge of the stars to foresee that drinking bugmans XXXXXX in more one drop is not a wise move and hence didn't do it.

    The basic lore attribute:

    Roiling skies:
    The lore of the heaven is mighty in the skies! For that reason they do more harm to the flying creatures than to those grounded, not matter if they were suppose to damage the enemy in the first place.

    TT:
    A additional D6 with the strength of 4 (a good strength, but nothing special) to all other effects a enemy flyer suffers.

    TW:
    Probably a nice damage boost against all things flying.

    Conclusion:
    A helpfully addition against flying foes, which often happen to be the most powerful, but also rare.

    Iceshard Blizzard (Signature spell):
    The most basic of heavens spells, is a hex that let your foe shake in fear or at least coldness.

    TT:
    Within the range of 24 inches (the range of normal bows and handguns), this spell modifies all enemy hit roll, close and range, -1 and prevents those shooting attacks without the use of BS, if not a 4+ is rolled and lowers the enemy moral -1.
    All of this for the cost of a 7+.
    If you are willing to give more, you can extend the range to 48 inches for a 10+.

    TW:
    A very good rounded up hex spell. That probably will lower fighting skills as meele attack and as well the moral. Not by too much, but still a nice spells to hinder a unit powerful in hurting your man to do so.
    When the effect concerning weapons that don't use BS gets translated (that applies to a lot of artillery pieces), than this could be a good way to silent enemy guns for at least a while.

    Harmonic Convergence:
    The first true spell of the lore, helps to ease the minds of the man to focus.

    TT:
    At the range of 24 inches, one unit can reroll all hit, wound or armour rolls of 1.
    For 6+, this is yours.
    Should your instead give 12+, you can improve not one unit, by all units within 12 inches.

    TW:
    It is most likely a quite good spell. Increasing the melee/range attack, the damage and the armour of one unit. Helping a unit, that is equal to its foes, to over come them. In cases where the foe is clearly stronger, this will only help to delay.
    If you have excess to the bigger version (probably a skill update to lvl 2 or higher) you can push or stabilize an entire frontline against the enemy or make a gunline more deadly.

    Windblast:
    Let the winds of magic push your enemy into the right direction... into they DOOM!

    TT:
    A magic missile with the range of 24 inches. Pushes enemies 1+D3 inches away from the caster. Should the unit hit impassable terrain they suffer damage worth one D6 hits of the strengths 3 (that's pretty weak) and in case that is a unit, both suffer D6 strength 3 hits.
    It cost 7+ to do so.
    When the winds are suppose to blow harder, he must pay 14+ and gets push of 2+D6.

    TW:
    I don't want to spoil the rest of the spells, but I think we have here the worst spell of the lore. Not really good in the TT, despite having more tactically use for a push in a turn base game. The damage is low and very specific.
    While there a certain situations where this could be gold, if fighting on a cliff or during a siege, either pushing away siege towers or units against buildings. But that is very situational and not as reliable as the other spells.
    One thing important for this spell and something which could make this work better is casting time: if the casting time is low and convenient, than additional uses open up. Example: preventing an enemy unit to charge and then instead charge yourself.
    Unless CA buffs this spell or it has a very low casting time, it is probably not too useful. Thou it might see a comeback, if the Empires fleet set sail.
    Update 29.02.16:
    We have seen it in today's video and judging of that, CA did turn it in a AE damage-spell, the cast time is not especially short, but it appears to "aim" on moving units, which means that most spells will have this feature. How big the damage actually is, was impossible to tell for me.
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/1j/ipniqtd4x99g.png";
    Base on form and size, I would say that it will be a good spell for sieges, to either blow a gate clean of defenders or to push back attackers to give a defending unit a moment to regroup
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/vp/juojqjcb7vqy.png";


    Course of the Midnightwind:
    Some think that the hollowing wind at night a natural effect of sonic sound... they are wrong... very wrong...

    TT:
    A hex with a range of 24 inches, it forces one enemy unit to reroll all 6 for hit, wound or armour saves.
    For 10+.
    When he doubles to a 20+, he can let all enemies in 12 inches suffer the effects.

    TW:
    This whole thing sounded familiar didn't it? Well it is the hex version of "Harmony Convergence". Lowering attack meele/range, damage and enemy armour. A good spell to have, but is it better than the convergence?
    Well, in my view no. It is more expensive and the bigger version suffers a tactical problem of empire wizards.
    In order to cast to the best effect, the wizard need to be close, even better surrounded by enemies! Something empire wizards are likely not goanna survives long or too often.
    The augment can be cast in safety more efficient. So, in doubt I would decided for the convergence, but do we have to choose? In the beginning yes, but a Wizard who has masters both spells could push significantly a whole part of the line in one direction... victory...

    Urannon's Thunderbolt:
    This spell is quite shocking news for the enemy.

    TT:
    A magic missile with a range 24 inches causes D6 strength 6 (that is strong!) hit.
    Cost point: 10+
    For 13+, you get the range of 48 inches.

    TW:
    A very straight forward damage spells, doesn't hit many enemies but it does it hard. Good against elite units, single characters most likely and when combine with Roiling Skies, it provides a very good anti air spell.
    In fact I could see FLAZ (Flugabwehrzauberer=Flyer defence caster) wizards with this spell and skill points in roiling skies become a thing.

    Before we go on, the information’s suggest that the following spells will only be available to the higher level of caster.

    Comet of Casandora:
    "Don't worry" they said, the "Sky will not fall onto our heads" they said...

    TT:
    You choose a point you want the comet to fall, place a marker and every turn, on a D4+ the comet comes. If it doesn't, then ad a marker.
    Should you finally roll higher as 4+, all units, friend or foe, suffer in a radius of 2D6. All units hit, get 2D6 and +1 for every marker on it. The strength is 4 + every marker (it does start with one) on it.
    This cost you 12+.
    If you double to a 24+, you get two markers at the start and any giving round.

    TW:
    Already prominent feature in the marketing of the Game, we are looking at one of the most devastating spells of the whole TT game. But it is also hard to control, due the time effects.
    The martial made it look that those restrictions are gone and the comet comes instant, thou I believe that this was for presentation purposes. Should I be wrong, ignore the following:
    Due its delay, it will be hard to make enemies actually be hit by it (except artillery and dwarfs), because no one (that includes TW AI) will just stand there and wait to get that THING drop on them. So how solve this problem? Well, it is harder to run away if they enemy is already engage. While this does mean this end for them, I surely that our statetroops, especially those armed with spears, with gladly lay down they lives for Sigma and the Empire! Thou the choice is yours and not theirs anyway...
    Such thing will not necessary in sieges, where you could use it to either to clear walls and streets or enemy sieges towers.

    Chain Lighting:
    An "enlightenment" that goes from unit to unit.

    TT:
    Within 24 inches one units suffers D6 hits the Strength 6 and after that you for a 3+. If successful, you can aim for the next enemy 6 inches around that unit, with the same effects as before. The same unit can only be hit once, per spell use.
    All of this can be your for 15+.

    TW:
    Did have a Deja-vu? Well we have the Thunderbolt, with the extra feature of the chance to jump on other enemies. While the basic stay the same (good against strong untis, single targets not so much against hordes), the ability to jump improves the spell quite a bit. Instead of only hitting the enemy hero you now also hurt the units that hero was supporting!
    Thou I suspect that you can't control the spell the way you can in the TT, it is still useful against pack enemies, which in TW are common. It does have the disadvantage that it doesn't have the range upgrade thunderbolt could have.

    Summary:
    The lore of heaven is very value lore for empire commanders. Able to provide buffs, debuffs, but mainly some heavy damage against enemies, it can give you everything you need. Thou the damage is, for the most part, more against elite targets, than masses, the ability to turn your wizards into FLAZ, could be very important against strong late game enemies.
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015

    Now let's see what the dear college of the light, which in they wisdom don't drink alcohol at all, can do in service of the Empire.

    The basic Lore Attribute:

    Exorcisms:
    BEGONE EVIL!

    TT:
    When ever spells of this lore cause certain amounts of hits, you add additional D6 hits, if the target is either undead or daemonic.

    TW:
    Little surprising: this lore is really good against Vampires and will do more damage against them. Thou, and you will see what I mean later, doing damage at all isn't a especially of this lore.
    Also the question what CA will count as "daemonic" could be tricky, since certain upgrades of the Chaos Warriors did turn they Character into models with "demonic" rule, thou it appears to be a thing of the past.

    Shems Burning Gaze(Signature Spell):
    A light in the darkness.

    TT:
    A magic missile with a range of 24 inches, D6 hits with strength 4, which count as "flammable" (neglects "regeneration").
    Cost: 5+
    When willing to spend a 15+, the range increases to 48 and the strength to 6.

    TW: This spell doesn't cost much, but isn't worth that much... unless you fight undead. Than all of sudden, you have a pretty good damage spell on our hand.
    Cheap in its first version, pretty strong in it's second, when against undead.

    Phás Protecting:
    The Light protects you.

    TT:
    Augment with the range of 24, all attacks, range or meele, hit -1, shooting without BS must roll a 4+ first.
    For a 6+ it is yours.
    For 12+, all units around 12 inches get the effects.

    TW:
    It is probably a very good spell to protect units from damage. Should the "no BS part" translated to "artillery can't shot you", than it could be a very value spell against enemy gunlines, thou this basically only is relevant for civil war and fights against dwarfs.
    The ability to cast it on whole groups could it make it very strong in order to preserve your armies or elite units of it.

    The Speed of Light:
    Light doesn’t care for the boundaries of the flesh or speed limits.

    TT:
    Augment with 24 rang, raises the initiative (important for who strikes first in the TT) and weapon skill of one unit to 10.
    Cost: 8+.
    When you spend 16+, you get it for all units in 12 inches around the caster.

    TW:
    This is a bit of a tricky one. While weapon skill is easy to translate to melee attack, TW doesn’t know the concept of initiative. I’m a bit unsure how CA is going to do this. They could either speed up fighting animations (which probably will look weird) or increase meele damage (not really what it does in the TT) or melee defence. But no matter what CA does, this should be a great support spell for your melee units.

    Light of Battle:
    Why use a candle of hope, if you can have a flamethrower of hope?

    TT:
    A unit within 12 inches regroup regardless of circumstances (in the TT it is sometimes impossible to regroup). The unit also passes all moral tests during this spell.
    Cost: 9+.
    If upgrade you can cast it for 18+ of all units in the range of 12 inches get the effects.

    TW:
    Pretty straight forward: no matter how bad the shape of your units is, this spell will make them hold or come back. This can be especially useful against enemies which work a lot with “terror” “fear”. Which we will see a lot: when fighting against Vampire Counts.
    While the first version has a unusually short range, most comparable spells have the double, the second version is something which can make a line stand, which was about to run.

    Net of Amyntoks:
    You can catch bigger things than fish with this.

    TT:
    It is a hex which has a range of 24 inches. When cast on a enemy unit, it must test on strength in order to do any movement (including force movement as routing). When successful, the unit act normal. If it fails, they unit can’t move and suffers D6 with strength 4.
    This cost 10+.
    If you choose to increase the range to 48 inches, it cost 13+.

    TW:
    This is a bit of a tricky one, because of the strength test. While the concept of “strength” can roughly translated to “damage”, it would mean than only units with low damage, or low melee damage, will be really effected by this spell, which limits its use to range and bad melee units. Should CA skip this part of the spell and make it a simple “net” spell, than this problem wouldn’t be a thing.
    But in case it works: it helps you to pin down an enemy unit and give you more time and make some damage. Damage which gets pretty good: when used against the undead.

    Again: here come the high level spells.

    Banishment:
    Send the horrors back to the place they come from.

    TT:
    It is a magic missile with a range of 24. Strength of 4 and +1 for every wizard in a radius of 12 inches that knows the lore of light (includes enemies). Successful “ward saves” (a special protection usually gain through items/spells, but common for daemons) must be repeated.
    Cost: 10+.
    It can be upgraded to a range of 48 inches for 13+.

    TW:
    This spells is again a bit tricky. It has decent damage, which again gets good against undead, but some of the mechanics are depending on details of CA design. Are you allowed to put two Wizards with the light lore into the same army? If not, that this spell gets a bit less interesting.
    Also the “ward save” special rule is a bit tricky. When implemented, that this could help to overcome the better protected enemy characters, especially Vampires.
    When this spell is starting to shine, is the arrival of Chaos daemons. They don’t have conventional armour in the TT, but only ward saves. Being force to repeat them, when successful, means this will cause havoc, when CA implements this aspect.

    Bironas Timewarp:
    It’s about time.

    TT:
    Augment with a range of 24. Double movement range of the target and adds +1 attack. It also gets “first strike”.
    Cost: 12+.
    When upgraded, it effects all friendly units in a radius of 12 inches around the caster and cost 24+.

    TW:
    Another tricky one! While making units move twice as fast is pretty straight forward (and devastating when use on the Reiksgaurd) and +1 attacks could be translated with more damage or melee attack, “first strike” isn’t straight forward.
    In the TT it makes your units attack first, even if initiative of them is lower and should that also be higher, than you also allow to reroll miss hits, resulting in a boost of both your offensive and defensive power.
    So perhaps that is what this spell is going to do: basically improve every thing except armour, morale, range attacks. But it could also provide a bonus against charges and perhaps use CA new reaction mechanic in order to let defenders strike first.
    What ever the answer on the “first strike” front will be: this promise to be a very powerful spell indeed. Making your units move on the double alone is a big deal in TW. You can “run” without running and make devastating charges and fast shifting manoeuvres leaving your enemies helpless against your speed.

    Conclusion:
    The Lore of light is a bit of a tricky lore. A lot of the details could change some of its spells significantly. What can be said with relative certainly is the following:
    It has very powerful augments, which will significant increase the abilities of your units. A unit which gets both “Speed of Light” and “Bironas Timewarp” should be a terrible foe.
    A combination of “Timewarp” and “Phas” should make any gunline shake in fear.
    The damage/hex spells on the other hand are less universal and very enemy specific. Against the Vampire counts, this will be an excellent choice to make great damage. Against all the others? Not so much. So perhaps you want to focus your skill point on the augment skills, unless you want a practically undead breaker.
    When “Chaos Deamons” arrive as race, the usefulness of the damage spells could be greatly increased.

    Lore of Light bonus round:
    Liminark of Hush:
    Not a spell, but is own unit I think it would be right to talk about this unit in context of the light lore.

    TT:
    It is pretty tough with toughness 5 and 5 wounds. Has an aura of protection granting all units in 6 inches radius a 6+ ward save. It also adds an additional dispel dice to your pool.
    It’s attack is a inbound spell with cost of 4+. It has strength 8 (very powerful) and causes D3 wounds (very dangerous to all what have more than one wound). It acts like a bolt thrower at enemy ranks (get weaker for each rank penetrated). No armour saves allowed, against undead and demonic targets, you can reroll wound rolls.

    TW:
    While we got some information from CA, that it will have the protective aura and will be useful to snipe enemy monsters (giants for example), some minor aspects are a bit unclear. The way the dispel dice gets translated/replace for example.
    Nevertheless, it should do the role of “monster sniper” excellent and especially against undead monsters and also against flyers.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    Balthasar Gelt and the Lore of Metal
    Since he is already with us, unlike the rest of his college, I think it would be right to talk about both the Lore of Metal and him personally.

    The Lore of Metal (get your “heavy metal” jokes out of your systeme NOW)

    The basic lore attribute:
    Original:

    Metalshifting:
    Your steel is worse than worthless against this lore.

    TT:
    Instead of wounding base of the Strength, this lore’s spells wound base on how strong the enemy armour is. The stronger the armour, the more devastating is the damage. A spell use against goblins will have barley any effect. The same spell against Black Orcs? Absolute havoc.
    Additionally, every spell counts as flammable (neglect regeneration) and doesn’t allow armour saves.

    TW:
    This attribute sets the tone, but also some of the problems of this lore. While it is strong against the majority of elite units, since they tend to have the strongest armour, some fall through and against the most standard units or lower units, it has barley use, as damage maker.
    For this reason it would be wise to skill Balthazar and later his generic colleges, not just in damage but also in augment and hex spells to be universal useful.

    Update: 14.02.16

    We didn’t see it (and I have try hard to see it), but there are still things we know are a worth talk about.
    First: we know that the Lore attributes are skills to unlock, after the first spell of the lore.
    This means that all spells have to function differently before it and we most likely will not see a 1 to 1 translation of this. What we will see is probably that the damage spells of this lore will gain Amour Piercing (AP) damage.
    When true, it would mean that this lore would lose a bit of its “all or no damage” approach, which makes it more viable against horde races.
    Not only could the damage spells function without this, but it also gives CA the ability to make different tiers of this ability, where a “amour equal damage” is pretty final and hardly upgradeable.

    Orginal

    Searing Doom (Signature Spell):
    Not everything shiny is good for you.

    TT:
    Magic missile with a range of 24 inches, D6 hits with the strength of 4.
    Cost: 10+.
    For 20+ you get 2D6 hits.

    TW:
    A bit expensive, compared to the other signature spells, but since it makes the most damage against the best of the enemies; it is quite useful as early anti elite spell.</blockquote>
    Update: 14.02.16
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/yu/nscz8td7qqrd.png
    We learn here a couple of things: first it can target enemies, as well just a specific ground.
    The exact range and that it will work as “bombardment”, as AE spell. For 10 seconds your mage will bombard the area. This does makes likely it ineffective against flyers.
    We also learn that we can’t use it while climbing, which means that ladders are confirmed.
    Finally we see that 24 inches translates, at least in this version, to 200m, which gets further confirmed by the other spells.

    Original:
    Plague of Rust:
    No matter how hard your metal is, it will give in to the attack of rust!

    TT:
    Hex spell with 24 inches range. Lowers enemy armour -1 for the rest of the battle. Repeated use is possible.

    TW:
    A nice spell to hurt the protection of enemy units, thou you may want to be careful not to use it on unit you want to damage with metal lore spells.
    Update: 14.02.16
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/mu/pat2z7yzxxkc.png
    A couple of noticeable things:
    No mention that the armour would stay down, which means that most likely all effects whit lasting effects that would cripple/boost a unit are not translated. Not so surprising, considering that there is not dispel and the opportunity for abuse (more time and space as in the TT) is far bigger.
    Duration is a bit short with 24 seconds and the effect with -4 armour isn’t amazing. But this is the first tier and it still can impact a combat.


    Enchanted blades of Aiban:
    Sometimes shiny things are good for you.

    TT:
    Augment Spell with 24 inches range. All hit rolls in melee and range gain +1 and all attacks count as magical and armour piercing.
    Cost: 9+
    The range can be increase to 48 inches for 12+.

    TW:
    A good spell if one your more “common” units fight against enemy elites. Could be very useful to make crossbows are very mighty weapon. Thou it is a bit of a shame that you don’t have the option to augment all units in 12 inches radius.

    Glittering Robe:
    Not only better protection but also more fabulous!

    TT:
    Augment with 12 inches range. Give a unit “Scale skin” (armour) of 5+.
    Cost: 9+.
    Can be cast on all units in 12 inches radius for 16+.

    TW:
    Better armour for unit is a good way to help units to survive. Thou the short range is a bit of a bumper, the big version once again can help entire lines.

    Original:
    Gehenna’s golden Hounds:
    Who are good boys? Who are good boys? yes you are! yes you are!

    TT:
    Damage spell with 12 inches range. Pick a certain model which suffers D6 hits, enemy characters can be aim for, but they do have “Look out sir”.
    Cost: 9+.
    Can be improve to a range of 24 for 12+.

    TW:
    This one has to work a bit different, as in the TT, most likely. The “sniping” effect of this spell doesn’t apply to the game and it will probably be compensate by having extra damage against single targets.
    Thou one must wonder if CA is going the hounds as real “models” or just a damage effect, like in the TT.
    The weakness of this spell is the short range in the first version. Thou it is worth pointing out that Gelt can have a Pegasus and will hence the ability to move fast.</blockquote>
    Update 14.02.16
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/jl/w1wsz64t6a9b.png

    This one is a big surprise to me. Not only gets it the upgrade in terms of range (to is TT max version), but it is also a “vortex” spell.
    What probably happing is the following: when you use the spell, the hounds appear in a short of “vortext”, which then move toward the enemy and attack them. Thou the question then is, is it just a graphical effect and the hounds will always damage the target area or can the hounds be “stuck” on enemies before that.
    Logically, the spell can’t be use against flyers or troops on walls, something the spell should compensate with damage, otherwise the most basic spell will outshine him.

    Higher level spells:

    Transformation of Lead:
    Your once light and elegant weapon suddenly becomes heavy as a stone club.

    TT:
    Hex spell with 24 inches range. -1 of one units weapon skill, ballistic skill and armour saves.
    Cost: 12+.
    For 15+ improve range of 48.

    TW:
    Most likely very effective hex, crippling even strong enemy units to great extend.
    Draw back is the fact that the spell can only affect one unit.

    Final Transmutation:
    Not only devastating, but also good for the economy.

    TT:
    Damage spell with 18 inches range, every model in the enemy units must roll a D6, by a 5+, t is become a gold statue. No protect saves of any kind allowed. Targets with multiple hit points roll a 6+.
    Also every enemy unit, including the one hit, must test on stupidity (moral check, when fail the unit isn’t allowed to move).
    Cost: 15+.
    Range can be double to 36+ inches in which case it cost 18+.

    TW:
    Well what can I say? One of the most dangerous spells of the game. While barley more than a 1/3 of the enemy gets hit (this time, armour doesn’t matter), those 1/3 have no form of protection against this. Also it can completely sabotage the ability of an enemy to move one of his flanks.
    Range is solid, cost okay. I do wonder if we get additional loot, when using this spell. If the answer is yes, than Gelt could be the money machine of the empire.

    Conclusion:
    The lore of Metal has a good mix of all kinds of spells, but its focus on harm enemy elite untis and improving/destroying weapon damage and armour. As said before, a wise player should always skill the augments and hexes, in case the enemy doesn’t have worthy targets.
    I do wonder if generic Metal Lore Wizards will have the campaign ability to destroy enemy gold or make some for you.

    Balthasar Gelt:
    Balthasar Gelt is the supreme patriarch of the Magic Colleges. The most powerful mage the empire has.

    TT:
    His stat lines aren’t really special in any way. What makes him special is the fact that he is level 4 spellcaster, lore master of the metal lore (knows all metal spells, instead of 4) and the items he has.
    Amulet of the Golden sea (quest probably in estila), gives magic resistance to him equal to the number of enemy wizards.
    Cloak of Molten Metal, gives him a ward save of 3+ against shooting attacks.
    Staff of Voltan, improves all his spell attempts with a +2.
    He has also a Pegasus as mount.

    TW:
    While probably weak at the start, he has great potential. Not only is he at the moment the only one in the empire with the lore of metal, but he will also probably have great bonuses to cast spells.
    With the Pegasus, he could gain great mobility. Also his items help him greatly to improve survivability (especially against shooting) and spell casting.
    His campaign bonus will help to wield a lot and powerful wizards for your armies.
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Empire special “lore”: Battle Prayers

    While the Empire has not a proper own lore, like many other races, it does have the battle prayers of the Warrior Priest.
    All prayers are augment spells for 3+, cast on the priest and unit he is in, which probably will get translated to a radius effect around him.

    The three prayers are:

    Hammer of Sigma:
    Hit your foul foe with the strength of hammers!

    TT:
    All failed wound hits in melee get a reroll.

    TW:
    Improve damage in melee. Who can argue with that? Especially since the Warrior Priest should come with a skill, that is able to improve melee attack as well.

    Shield of Faith:
    Sigma protects.

    TT:
    In melee combat, the priest and unit gain a ward save of 5+.

    TW:
    A additional layer of “amour” can help immensely to stay alive.

    Soulfire:
    Burn the enemies of Sigma with your passion for him.

    TT:
    The unit and priest gain flaming attacks (neglects regeneration), any enemy in contacts suffer strength 4 attacks and even 5 strength if demonic or undead.

    TW: Probably a good spell, when surrounded and if fighting anything with regeneration. Probably works like a “shock wave”.

    Conclusion:
    These spells are a good support for the soldiers of the Empire. Making the Warrior Priest excellent: in boosting the Empire melee abilities.
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  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,017Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Yawn!!! i guess those foolish manlings need to learn some petty magics. Of course they are nothing compared to my mystical might.

    Waaagh!!! lores are not wind based lores. Does that mean they won't be done? I 'm sure you will get round to it :)
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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    Which team are you? Post in your signature

    Team Empire Team Bretonnia Team Kislev Team Dwarf Team Chaos Dwarf Team High Elves
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  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKPosts: 3,905Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    I actually looking forward to try lore of Heavens, sounds like something useful and Comet spell will be spectacular for sure. I always preferred mages in every fantasy game for their awesome display of power.

    But still for me it will be always Dark Magic, wind of Shyish and Amethyst School or Lore of Vampires, wonder if they'll do last vortex spell... what was it Black Wind or something.

    I just wonder why they can't make Bright Wizard for the Empire there is lore of fire in Chaos roster.
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • Lord of RivaLord of Riva Senior Member Posts: 698Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    good job,. are you going to expand the list to the Lore of Death, Metal and Fire as well? im interested in the chaos lores we will have, also the lor of death is something the greenskins also have.

    its still a shame that the lores of the dark gods arent in. there are loads of interesting spells in them
    imagine yourself sitting in a restaurant ordering a salad that is served with french dressing. The waiter brings it without dressing.
    so you tell the waiter "there is no french dressing in my salad, could you add some?" and then people in the room stand up and come over to your table, screaming "you entitled brat! why would you think you would get french dressing !"

    probably because they like their salads without? i dont know. but thats whats happening here.
    internet comedy at its best.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    I plan to do every lore, for every race that has it, but I will start by those who are in the game first.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Please change the lore of Heavens to a lighter blue, it's just painful to read right now.

    But very nice effort, thank you very much for it.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Posts: 3,677Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    VC special magic are a priority since a lot of newcomers it seems a lot of em are frothing at the mouth for bloo- I mean, info on VC :3
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Dalakh wrote: »
    Please change the lore of Heavens to a lighter blue, it's just painful to read right now.
    Interesting
    I don't have this problem, do others have it to?
    Which blue works better?
    Which blue works better?
    Which blue works better?
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  • Lord of RivaLord of Riva Senior Member Posts: 698Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    SiWI wrote: »
    Interesting
    I don't have this problem, do others have it to?
    Which blue works better?
    Which blue works better?
    Which blue works better?

    the first one is the bets one.
    imagine yourself sitting in a restaurant ordering a salad that is served with french dressing. The waiter brings it without dressing.
    so you tell the waiter "there is no french dressing in my salad, could you add some?" and then people in the room stand up and come over to your table, screaming "you entitled brat! why would you think you would get french dressing !"

    probably because they like their salads without? i dont know. but thats whats happening here.
    internet comedy at its best.
  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,017Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Seldkam wrote: »
    VC special magic are a priority since a lot of newcomers it seems a lot of em are frothing at the mouth for bloo- I mean, info on VC :3

    Lore of death as VCs, Chaos, and Greenskins (Azhag) can use it. Empire will likely get it later as well. (plus people have to be warned about the purple sun of aaaaaand its gone)
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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    Which team are you? Post in your signature

    Team Empire Team Bretonnia Team Kislev Team Dwarf Team Chaos Dwarf Team High Elves
    Team Dark Elves
    Team Wood Elves Team Warriors of Chaos Team Daemons of Chaos
    Team Beastmen
    Team Vampire Counts Team Tomb Kings Team Orcs and Goblins
    Team Ogre Kingdoms
    Team Lizardmen Team Skaven




  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,730Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    The main difference from TT appears to be the spell effects are incremental based on caster skill level. Just being able to cast some also doesn't appear to make the spell useful. Particularly hex and augment spells look very weak even in mid levels so won't matter much until above level 20.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Posts: 3,677Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Ichon wrote: »
    The main difference from TT appears to be the spell effects are incremental based on caster skill level. Just being able to cast some also doesn't appear to make the spell useful. Particularly hex and augment spells look very weak even in mid levels so won't matter much until above level 20.

    The augment for azhag, first spell... Something about dread steeds or horses Idk. It makes a unit quite powerful actually
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Seldkam wrote: »
    The augment for azhag, first spell... Something about dread steeds or horses Idk. It makes a unit quite powerful actually
    Aspect of the Dread Knight ? Because that only gives +5 morale and Fear to a unit.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,952Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    SiWi I would be interested in your opinion on how they might implement the anvil of doom. (Since it is the closest thing Dwarfs have to magic could you add it to this list?)
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    SiWi I would be interested in your opinion on how they might implement the anvil of doom. (Since it is the closest thing Dwarfs have to magic could you add it to this list?)
    The big plan in the moment is this:
    Greenskins
    Big Whaaagh!
    Small Whaaagh!
    DeathLore
    Arzhag

    VC

    CHaos Warriors
    Death Lore
    Fire Lore
    Metal Lore
    Archon the Everchoosen


    After that everything what is likely to come, but i not announced, including the Anvil of Doom
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    The Greenskins
    Since demanded, here the strange and wild powers the Greenskins use.

    Spells of da big WAAAGH!

    The basic Lore Attribute:

    Power of da WAAAGH!:
    Spoiler alert: it isn’t subtitle.

    TT:
    As long more units are fighting than fleeing, all spells with have or grant strengths, get +1.

    TW:
    A interesting little attribute, since it encourages your to wait, till at least some of our units are fighting, which a bit defeats the possible use as the long arm of the orcs. But additional damage would be worth this price.

    Gaze of Mork (signature Spell):
    Or was it Gork?

    TT:
    A 4D6 long straight line from the caster goes, causing all enemies to suffer strength 4 hits.
    Cost: 7+.
    When willing to spend 10+, you extend the range to an 8D6.

    TW:
    I see this spell becoming very strong in the game. Way stronger than in the TT. Simply because you can do the following:
    Engage the enemy with your main line, clear one flank, move your shaman on that flank and than do a, possible devastating flank shoot (remember the attribute bonus). Possible: because the length can variant a lot.

    Brain Bursta:
    Splash!

    TT:
    Damage spell with a range of 18. “Sniping special rule” (can pick targets in a unit) and a strength 5 hit.
    Cost: 6+.
    Range can be doubled for 9+.

    TW:
    It is good cheap spell. It probably will have a single target bonus to compensate for the lost “sniping” advantages. Thou the damage itself is very limited.

    Fists of Gork:
    Or was it Mork?

    TT:
    Remains in play, aka doesn’t end without enemy dispel. The shaman gets +3 attack, +3 strength and a ward save from 6+.
    8+

    TW:
    More damage, more melee attack and better protection. What more would you want? Well… another target as the Shaman. While Orc shamans are better than most mages in melee combat, they aren’t really good in melee combat, due the armour restriction (mages aren’t allowed to use armour). So even if this spell changes this, I don’t see many reasons to do this. After all, you can just pick a good fighter (Warboss/Bigboss) instead.
    It could be a solid “emergency” button, for your shaman thou.
    Perhaps it may have a better use in multiplayer, where you can surprise another player that your shaman is not as helpless as he thought.

    Hand of Gork:
    Pick them up!

    TT:
    Augment spell with a range of 24 inches. Remove one friendly model and place it 3D6 inches away facing in any direction.
    Cost: 9+.
    When he chooses, he can extend the range to 5D6 for 14+.

    TW:
    Well what do we have here? A teleportation spell. While the “one model” part does limit its use (assuming that CA doesn’t change that or has a higher lvl version which allows it for entire units), it is still a mighty tool.
    Allowing one Hero/Lord to bypass, enemy lines, walls or just change flanks. A lot of tactical uses which will make enemies which though they were safe from you give a nasty surprise.
    The only real downside is how big the difference in the distance can be. But if you want to do reliable, than Greenskin magic isn’t yours in the first place.

    ‘Eadbut:
    We ‘re gonna see who’s ‘Ead is harder!

    TT:
    Damage spell with 4D6 inches range. One enemy Wizard suffer a strength 4 hit that causes 3D wounds (that’s usually deadly in the TT) no armour saves allowed.
    Cost: 9+.
    For 12+, you can have 8D6 inches range.

    TW:
    It is pretty strong anti-wizard spell. While probably it’s “one shot” potential gets turn down, it probably still can at least force a retreat of an enemy wizard or kill a wounded one.
    Once again, the range is unreliable.

    High level spells:

    ‘Ere We Go!:
    Jetzt gehts los! Jetzt geths los!

    TT:
    Augment spell with a 2D6 inches ranges. All orc units, that includes the shaman, get to reroll hit rolls in close combat.
    Cost: 11+.

    TW:
    Could extend melee attack and charges bonus, maybe even damage. While not bad, it is worth reminding that the Warrior Priest has something like that (limited to one unit in the TT) as probable passive.
    It will be hard to get more than 2 units into the range, unless of course CA let’s us the potential range quite a bit.

    Foot of Gork:
    Some say it is the magical might that kills, some say it is the physical might that kills, but any survivor know: they fact that Gork (or was it Mork?) never wash he feet’s it what kills.

    TT:
    It is a damage spell of 36 inches range, using a special template, that scatters one D6 (in the TT you have about 1/3 chance of no scattering). (http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4325/14l.gif) Which causes strength 6 with D3 wounds.
    Cost: 15+.
    When the shaman wants to go big and spent an 18+, does the spell as usually but after that, he rolls a D6.
    On 1 Gork slips on your own units, allowing the enemy to place it.
    2-3 Nothing happens.
    4-6 you can place the template a 2nd time.

    TW:
    This is one of the few spells we saw already in action. And despite the fact that this spell is already powerful, they, if we believe the presentation 1 to 1, made it way more powerful.
    In said Video we saw it crush an Empire Steam tank (which would withstand 4 hits at least) and a Luminark if Hush (would at least stand 2 hits). This means one of four things:
    They made it way more powerful (perhaps it was max level).
    The units were already damage to the extend necessary.
    The said units are way weaker.
    Or they overdid it for presentation purpose.
    I tend to the last one. What ever the truth may be on that matter, there can be little doubt that this will be one heck of a devastating spell.
    Where is a question mark, if the 2nd tier down sides will find a way in the game.

    Conclusion:
    This lore has the potential to be very strong, at the price of not being reliable. A good variety of damage spells, which do suffer a bit from the problem that you need to get close for a reliable hit chance for most of them and perhaps want to delay them, till fighting has already started, thanks to the attribute. Such patient it rewarded, by doing a lot of damage and shortens up a lot of the fights.
    But the probably most value spell is probably “Hand of Gork” thanks to the tactical possible it is opens up.



    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    Spells of DA little WAAAHG!:
    The basic lore attribute:

    Sneaky stealing:
    You can’t hold on to your things close enough to be safe from goblins long fingers.

    TT:
    Every a spell of this lore is cast with success throw a dice. On a 5+ you steal a enemy dispel dice and add it to your energy dices.

    TW:
    In typical goblin fashion they lore starts with trouble. Since the game doesn’t appear to have dispel CA will have to come up with something else to make this work.
    One possible solution could be to simply replace dispel energy with regular energy. Hence you would have the 1/3 chance to steal a bit of enemy energy.
    This would make this a very useful lore, since it is able to feed itself while denying the enemy possible energy.

    Sneaky Stabbin’(Signature Spell):
    Only fools attack from the front. Not to say that you are a fool boss, but... wait no need to stand up boss!

    TT:
    Augment Spell with 12 inches range. Target unit gets armour pricing, when attacking the flank/rear of an enemy you also gain rerolls for both wound and hit.
    Cost: 6+.

    TW:
    A pretty good and cheap augment spell. Armour pricing is quite straight forward and so should be the charge bonus for rear and flank attacks. When you can cast this of your flanking cavalry you should be a pretty good shape. Thou the range means that you barley can hide this move from an enemy.

    Vindictive Glare:
    More daka!

    TT:
    Damage spell with 24 inches range. Has 2D6 with strength 3.
    Cost: 5+.
    For 10+ you get 3D6.

    TW:
    This spell is nothing too special. It is basically the ability to shot 2-12 bow arrows (I expect this to go up to 20-40). Having said that, it doesn’t cost much and if you also remember the lore attribute I could see this as a nice spam spell to simply keep making damage against badly armoured units.

    Gift of the Spider-god:
    It turns out that spiders can be very generous creatures.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 12 inches range. Unit gains the “poison attacks” special rule (auto wound, if the hit roll is 6), if the unit already has this rule, it gets improve to a 5+.
    Cost: 8+.

    TW:
    Another augment spell and it is probably a handy one. Not only grants in poison, which in the game most likely will ticker down the health of enemies (every model of a 120 units has its own health bar), but also improves it, if you already have it. Against especially tough enemies with large health bars, this could be a very good answer. Downside? Range.

    Itchy Nuisance:
    Imagine you could defeat your enemies by not bathing.

    TT:
    It is a hex spell with 24 inches range. You roll one D6 and reduce movement and initiative from the by it (minimum 1).
    Cost: 8+.

    TW:
    A solid spell. While it is unclear how they translate the initiative in this context, the ability to crumble enemy movement, could be useful.

    Gork `ll Fix it:
    It looks like that Gork (or was it Mork?) like to fix things that aren’t broken to break them.

    TT:
    It is a hex spell with 24 inches range. Forces a enemy unit to reroll hit, wound and armour saves from 6.
    Cost: 8+.

    TW:
    Cheaper than a similar spell from the Heavens lore, it sadly lacks its potential (unless CA buffs it). But nevertheless: almost every major combat value from one enemy unit gets debuffed.

    High level spells

    Night Shroud:
    The night is dark of full of goblins.

    TT:
    Augment spell that gets cast on the caster and the unit which he is in. All enemies that charge him or his unit must test dangerous terrain.
    Cost: 9+
    It can be cast on all units in 12 inches for cost 15+.

    TW:
    As said before, I see this kind of spell coming with a radius from the start. As for the concept of “dangerous terrain” I think what we will see is either a “bonus against charge” or a “death zone”, damaging every one coming near. I prefer the later.
    As for the uses, assuming the 2nd version, it could be a very good defensive spell.

    Curse of da bad Moon:
    I see da bad Moon rising. I see trouble on the way.

    TT:
    Magical vortex damage spell. It uses s 3 inches radius template. Once the template is place, the caster determents the direction. Throw 4D6 to see how far its move in every turn after that: 3D6, random direction. When models are hit they must pass a characteristic test of suffer a wound with no armour save.
    The characteristic is randomly determent by a D6:
    1-2 Strength
    3-4 Toughness
    5-6 Initiative
    Cost: 15+.
    The shaman can cast it for 25+ and then gets the 5 inches template. He can also choose the characteristic the moon tests, before its moving.

    TW:
    Also prominent shown to us in action. This is a fascinating ending for this lore. Devastating but it is also difficulty to use. You can use it to break enemy line, but follow though the gab with own units? That’s risky.
    An interesting use will probably in defensive battles/sieges, where you can shoot it in direction where you have no interest sending your troops in.
    For the shaman using the spell, I see a mount (fast!) becoming very important.
    I’m unsure if CA is going to translate the characteristic test, since in the video it didn’t look like it, but rather “just damage”. What most defiantly will not get translated is the “choose” part of the bigger version. Simply because that means the game would have to pause, each time you choose.

    Conclusion:
    This is an interesting contrast to “DA big WAAAGH!” lore. It has parley damage spells, but mostly augments and hex spells. This makes the goblin shamans a clear support choice for armies. What is better than black orcs? Black orcs with armour piercing and poison are.
    Another interesting aspect is the fact that the spell are mostly cheap and with the help of the attribute, you probably use quite a few them per battle.
    Also interesting is that it does have some “defensive” spells like “Night Shroud”, that could be handy for a defending army.
    I think the way you can play the goblin shaman will greatly change; once you hit the high level spells. While pretty much all big spells are impressive, few stand out in they own lore, like “Da bad Moon”. This is only the 2nd damage spell of the whole lore, but what spell it is. It must be use either very careful or very careless, but it has devastating potential, thou it is expensive.
    One thing which will be very important for a lot of wizards but vital for goblin shamans:
    mounts. A lot of the spells have short range and the caster itself isn’t really tanky. So if you want to keep them alive and relevant, than mobility is kind of a must.

    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    The Lore of Death is the lore we know most of it, as for the moment. It is the only one we have “current” ingame stats for the majority of spells, so let’s take a closer look.

    Spirit Leech (Signature spell):
    Ahhh… taste like strawberry!

    TT:
    Damage spell with the range of 12 inches. Targets single models. Both the target and the caster roll a D6 and compare the moral. If the caster has higher number as the target, the target loses the differences as wounds, without armour saves.
    Cost: 7+
    For 10+ he gets 24 inches range.

    TW:
    10 seconds.
    200 range/cost?
    Effect: There is a chance that certain effect creature will be damaged.
    Now while the duration is a bit irrelevant, the second but is a bit hard grasp what that actually is. Is it range: than 200 sounds a lot, especially since the spell appears to have only one version (because it is a signature spell?). So I guess it is cost.
    What is a bit frustration, both from our perspective now and if the game comes out: the description is really vague. It could be that the TT systems works in the back ground (aka the moral compensation), but the description doesn’t tell you if that is the case or not.
    I hope CA improves this, since it would be important to know if improve moral for the Caster means better chance to damage with this spell or not.

    Should CA use the TT system, than Azhag should be good in using it, since he should have a high moral stat.


    Aspect of the Dreadknight:
    Fear the power for the Dark side!

    TT:
    Augment spell with the range of 24 inches. The unit gets the special rule “causes fear”.
    Cost: 4+.
    Can be improve to “terror” for 9+.

    TW:
    Duration: 30 seconds.
    200?
    Target gets “causes fear” and base moral 5+.
    Interesting enough, the spell is stronger here as in the TT, thanks to the bonus moral. Thou the real difference will probably the way “fear” works. “Fear” causes a moral test that if not passed does not cause a rout but debuff the unit.
    It is quite possible that CA does this faithful or that they make it is“lower enemy moral” ability. We have to wait and see.
    Also worth mentioning is the fact that units which cause fear are immune themselves.
    Interesting enough: it has the same unknown stat value that “Spirit Leech” has: 200. Either that means both cost the same, unlike in the TT, or they have the same range. This would mean that we may have the 2nd tier version of “Spirit Leech” at our hands.

    As for Azhag potential uses of this spell: I think it can be quite useful, since it give you the chance of faster breaking the enemy lines, thou the timing must be carefully pick sine 30 seconds aren’t long.

    Life-Leeching:
    Mhhh… it tastes just as my mom!

    TT:
    For every wound lost because of damage spells of this lore you roll a D6. If you roll a 5+, you gain an energy dice.

    TW:
    It pretty much works as in the TT. Thou again, more detail numbers are hopefully available when playing the game, on the “how much”.

    As for how useful it is for the Greenskins. It kind of gives you a bit of a hard choice. It pushes you in the direction of the damage spells, since this only work on them. Now the damage spells aren’t bad, but as said before: augments and hexes, of this lore as well, are very nice. And from a skill point standpoint it could be very tempting to ignore the hex/augments for more damage.
    Now letting this besides: I think Azhag can really profit from this, since he can supply him and potential other caster in his armies with energy, while killing enemies.

    Soulblight:
    You were afraid what I would do to your body, while you should have been afraid of what I do to your soul.

    TT:
    It is a hex spell with 24 inches range. One unit suffer -1 strength and toughness.
    Cost: 9+.
    For 18+ the caster can affect all enemy units in range of 24 inches.

    TW:
    Duration: 20 seconds.
    200 (most likely range at this point).
    Effect range 30 (the AE area apparently)
    Effects: -4 base moral
    -4 armour
    -5% missile damage
    -3 melee damage base.
    Now here is spell which could use a buff in terms of effects, when compared to the TT. While it has additional effects that it doesn’t have (including the direct area use) like moral and missile damage, the “core” seem to be lacking.
    In comparison Dwarf warriors (in the tunderfalls battle) had:
    Armour 80
    Base Moral 80
    Melee Damage 30
    While the moral thing is bonus, the armour and the melee damage base should be effect harder (about 20 and maybe 6) and maybe also a bit longer.
    Nevertheless it does help you to crimple enemy units and help to win.

    Doom&Darkness:
    The night is dark and full of terror.

    TT:
    Hex spell with 24 inches range, stays in the game. Enemy unit loses -3 moral.
    Cost: 10+.
    For 13+ you get a 48 inches range.

    TW:
    Duration: 30 seconds.
    200 (probably range)
    -14 base moral
    So let’s see what we have here. On the one hand, the base moral value should, to be close to the TT around -30. On the other hand, the TT doesn’t automatically test your moral he way TW does. Means that a unit that got this hex on them, but is never force to test moral of any kind, doesn’t care for it. While in TW you test moral all the time.
    That “stay in game” wasn’t translated, is not a surprise, thou the duration is still short. I would hope that spells with “stay in game” will last at least around a minute and more, if not 2-3 minutes.
    As for the use of the spell: lowering moral in a TW itself is already useful. Considering the other spells which also use moral from this lore and you get a number of handy combinations.

    Mid conclusion:
    Now since end the part where we have seen the spells, I think I should shortly review the way CA handled the spells. While there are some information’s missing, how exactly the spell works, the general direction stays close to the TT.
    We can only really judge 3 of the spells in terms of strength. One is better than in the TT, two feel weaker and the overall duration of spells seems short. A big question mark is of course what the higher levels of those spell do and how many there are. Are there only 2? Than it appears that they only get cool down reductions. What if they do have 3 or 5 levels? We have to wait and see.
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    edited December 2015
    High level Spells

    The fate of Bjunas:
    Why so serious?

    TT:
    Damage spell with 12 inches range. Aim one single enemy model. You throw 2D6 minus the toughness of the model and get that numbers as hits. All hits wound at a 2+, no armour saves allowed. If the model survives, it stays “stupid” (moral check for moving).
    Cost: 13+.

    TW:
    It will be probably excellent against single targets. Even if the targets survives, it stays crippled (thou the details of “stupid” in the game are unknown). Range is a bit short thou.
    For Azhag, it could be a very useful tool to eliminate enemy heroes and lords or to weaken them before he attacks himself.

    The Purple sun of Xereus:
    No sunscreen will save you from getting burned from this sun.

    TT:
    Damage Vortex spell that stays in the game. It uses the 3 template. The player places the template and nomination the direction the spell goes. Then he uses the artillery dice (2-10) and multiplies the result with 3. Ever model touched must pass an imitative test or die. Should the arty dice show malfunction that the template gets place about the caster. After that you use a D6 and the scatter dice.
    In both events, the sun stays in the game and move randomly till the arty dice shows a malfunction.
    Cost: 15+.
    For 25+ you get the big 5 inches template.

    TW:
    What can I say? This spell is similar to “Da bad Moon”: devastating damage, but also a big risk attached to it. While I personal I don’t believe that “classic” miscast will be in the game (aka you fail a spell and there is a chance that your lvl 30 wizard blows up), I do wonder what CA is gonna do with spells like this, where a certain “failure” state is already with in it.
    Also the question of the “initiative” strikes once again. In the TT, elves don’t fear this spell nearly as much as orcs or dwarfs. I wonder if CA will make this difference in the game as well and how.
    Also interesting will be the question how long it will be stay in the game (only 30 seconds?) and how much energy you gain from killing with this.
    For Azhag, is this a pretty big bang he can deliver to the enemy and sine he is a LL, the risk attached to it are slightly less bad than regular caster.

    Conclusion:
    The lore of death is an interesting lore indeed. First it has a solid mix of all kinds of spells: epically hexes and damage (only one augment). Depending how big the cast time is and how fast you can cast spells after each other; you can probably make nice combos with the key spell “Doom&Darkness”. Also the fact that you can feed yourself with damage spells is very useful and will it make it interesting for the Greenskins since you also can feed a 2nd caster with one of the “Waaahg!” lores.


    Azhag the Slaughterer
    We have a word in German to describe him: “Eierlegevollmichsau” (egg laying, milk pig).

    TT:
    He is an orc warboss and has as such a pretty impressive stat line for close combat. While slightly worse then Grimgor Ironhide, he is stronger than your average Orc Warboss, which are already good fighters.
    It is not possible to use him without “Skullmuncha”, which is a slightly stronger wyvern.
    His magical hear is quite nice, with an armour that gives him a 5+ armour save (gets improve to Skullmuncha to 3+) and a 5+ Ward save. This makes him a pretty good protected character. His weapons have the bonus to reroll hits in the first close combat round and grant 1 additional attack. Nice, but not really special.
    He has the special rule of “Get on wiv it!” which means thta any failed animosity test must be rerolled.
    Last but not least, he gets the crown of sorcery, which turns him in a level 3 wizard with the death lore and makes him, stupid (moral test to be able to move).

    TW:
    While we don’t know yet, what his trait for the faction will be, it is pretty clear to me that he could be the better choice as Grimgor Ironhide, in terms of possibilities and a pretty great choice overall.
    He has a powerful flying mount. He is a wizard with a unique (for greenskins) and good lore. And he is still an orc Warboss, which means that almost no other wizard could withstand him for even seconds against him in close combat.
    Thou he probably will lose 1 vs. 1 against a full combat Grimgor and if CA does the stupidity, then the crown would have a downside. But he can simply fly away. Can cast spell from distance. He can simply move from one side of the field to the other. While Grimgor, would never be able to catch up to him.
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,730Registered Users
    As for the power of Foot of Gork (or Mork) I think it was probably fast by level 30 shaman who specializes in magic in that trailer. In other words most powerful version of spell possible in high winds of magic area. Most of the time the spell won't do so much damage as caster added some combat or campaign skills isn't high enough level to add damage bonuses and the winds of magic aren't so strong.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    Can the VC fans give a short info which of those colours:
    http://www.simplehtmlguide.com/colours.php

    they prefer the "Vampire Lore" would have?
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  • Lord of RivaLord of Riva Senior Member Posts: 698Registered Users
    SiWi said:

    Can the VC fans give a short info which of those colours:
    http://www.simplehtmlguide.com/colours.php

    they prefer the "Vampire Lore" would have?

    i really appreciate what you are doing here.
    while not a VC fan and tehrefore not asked, i would like to say that the best approach on formatting these posts is font size and other options featured here would be better not the color.

    if you try to give every lore a different color you will end up with one not easily readable (the thing with the table you providedf in that post is not really helpful since the background is white while its is textured grey here)

    my personal recommendation? make everything white, and reformat the stuff a little instead. :)
    imagine yourself sitting in a restaurant ordering a salad that is served with french dressing. The waiter brings it without dressing.
    so you tell the waiter "there is no french dressing in my salad, could you add some?" and then people in the room stand up and come over to your table, screaming "you entitled brat! why would you think you would get french dressing !"

    probably because they like their salads without? i dont know. but thats whats happening here.
    internet comedy at its best.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    I thought that making the lores different colours would help people to instantly recognize which lore they are seeing. Thou Some of the practical aspects are simply unknown to me, since I never visits this forum on a mobile device.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    The Vampire Counts

    The Lore of the Vampires:
    This lore is not just the special lore of a race, but every General of any Vampire Count army must have it.

    The basic Lore Attribute

    The Curse of the Undead:
    And you shall be dammed that every game in existing shall have a zombie mod…

    TT:
    Whenever a spell of this lore is cast, the wizard or a friendly model regains a wound.

    TW:
    I think that this attribute will have a huge importance in the game. It appears from the material CA that characters will have to regain health the way units replenish, so they don’t get a full heal after each battle. This means that everything that heals you in battle will help you to keep using the character in other battles, which means that units can be rested more.
    This alone will make everything that heals you, very strong in a strategy perspective.
    But then there is also another thing. You know, people sometimes say/write things like: “After the General died, the army broke apart”.
    Now this is of course isn’t meant in a literarily way. For a Vampire Count army, this looks different. They LITTERALY start falling apart, when the leading general dies and no other wizard is available with vampire lore. In fact: if in a TT match a Empire, Dwarf, Orc or pretty much any other army loses it’s general in the first round, it is bitter, but they usually aren’t lost yet. If this happens to Vampire Counts? They usually give up.
    Now we don’t know how CA is going to handle this, but it is likely that they will stay relative close to the TT and that keeping your general alive will be more important than in any other TW scenario. Despite of them being immune to moral checks.

    Invocation of Nehek (Signature spell):
    A Vampire always calls you “back”.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 6 inches range within all friendly undead units regain D6 plus Wizard level lost wounds. Other targets gain 1+Wizrad level wounds. Models with the rules: Vampire, Ethereal and large Target, can only gain 1 wound back.
    Cost: 6+.
    For 12+, you can expand the range 12 inches.
    For 18+, you gain 18 inches range.

    TW:
    This is probably the spell you bring to a grinding match. While most of your elite units will barley be effected by it, the more common units will be.
    So whenever you are using units in a holding action, in defensive sieges for example, you can make those units last very long and simply out grind them. Something which works better in TW, thanks to the fact that in TW: units can get tired.

    Vanhels Danse Macabre:
    Reenergize even the dead.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 12 inches range. The unit rerolls hitrolls, when not engage the unit can move up to 8 inches (pretty big distance, especially for the rather slow undead units).
    Cost: 6+.
    For 12+ you can cast it on all units within 12 inches.

    TW:
    Quite a value spell, concerning one of the tactical problems of Vampire Counts: you are slow and you barley have range units. Giving you movement, probably charge and melee bonus.

    Hellish Vigour:
    The cold undead can be pretty passion beings.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 12 inches range. The unit rerolls all failed to wound dices.
    Cost: 8+.
    For 16+ you can cast it on all undead friendly units within 12 inches.

    TW:
    With improved damage, it could be a good combo to cast it after “Vanhels Danse Macabre”.
    It has a short range, but should help to make damage.

    Gaze of Nagash:
    Look into my eyes, baby.

    TT:
    Damage spell with 24 inches range. Causes 2D6 hits with strength 4.
    Cost: 9+.
    For 9+ the spell gains a 48 inches range.

    TW:
    It is a solid damage spell, which can have a pretty good range too. Probably one of the best bets of vampires to make range damage.


    High level spells:

    Curse of the Years:
    The old saying: “you are as old as you feel yourself”, isn’t just positive.
    TT:
    Hex spell with the range 18 inches, stays in the game. The enemy unit must roll a D6, by a 6, the model loses a wound with no armour saves allowed. Next magic phase you roll on a 5+, the phase after that on a 4+, till a 2+.
    Cost: 12+.

    TW:
    Despite being called a hex, this is basically damage over time spell. Better cast on the enemy elites, since all units are effect equal and it does ignore armour. Now judging base on what we have seen, the spell will probably not have as long of duration in the game.
    The range is okay, but nothing special.

    Wind of Death:
    “What a nice breeze.” Famous last words.

    TT:
    It is a damage vortex spell that uses the Small template (3 inches). The user declares a direction where the Template is suppose to go. Then you use the artillery dice (2-10) and multiply the result with 3. Each rank of a units get D6 strength 3 hits, with no armour saves allowed. Should the arty dice show malfunction that the template gets place about the caster. After that you use a D6 and the scatter dice.
    When the spell is cast successful, it moves randomly (arty dice) and will only stop, when misfire is rolled.
    Cost: 15+.
    For 25+ you get strength 4 and big template (5 inches).

    TW: Very similar to “curse of a bad Moon”, pretty hard damage (thou S3 isn’t that good) and a certain randomness.
    Again: I wonder if the misfire gets translated, which would make the spell a dangerous to the caster.
    Nevertheless: a worthy final spell to do some damage, especially if the enemy is very compact, like in sieges for example.

    Conclusion:
    It is a pretty good lore, helping the Vampire Counts out in tactical problems, helps to keep characters alive and get additional units.
    Now it has to be a good one, considering that you need to have it in the TT and probably also in the game. The question is of course, which are the spells that even characters with little magical interest should at least skill. The two “minimum” spells I would advise are “Invocation of Nehek” (mandatory, since signature spell) and either “Vanhels Danse Macabre or “Gaze of Nagash”.
    All three should be useful without needing too many skill points and give you the option to use the lore attribute, which as discussed should be very value.
    The biggest question probably will be simply: is it so good that taking any other lore is off the table? After all: when you have no one with this lore, your army will start to fall apart.
    Well let look at the other two lore’s available for Vampire counts: death and shadow.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users

    The Lore of Death is the lore we know most of it, as for the moment. It is the only one we have “current” ingame stats for the majority of spells, so let’s take a closer look.

    Spirit Leech (Signature spell):
    Ahhh… taste like strawberry!

    TT:
    Damage spell with the range of 12 inches. Targets single models. Both the target and the caster roll a D6 and compare the moral. If the caster has higher number as the target, the target loses the differences as wounds, without armour saves.
    Cost: 7+
    For 10+ he gets 24 inches range.

    TW:
    10 seconds.
    200 range?
    Effect: There is a chance that certain effect creature will be damaged.
    What is a bit frustration, both from our perspective now and if the game comes out: the description is really vague. It could be that the TT systems works in the back ground (aka the moral compensation), but the description doesn’t tell you if that is the case or not.
    I hope CA improves this, since it would be important to know if improve moral for the Caster means better chance to damage with this spell or not.

    Should CA use the TT system, then this could be decent for Vampires, but not great, since besides from the Vampire lord, which is likely only to have the vampire lore, non of they other caster have good moral.

    Aspect of the Dreadknight:
    Fear the power for the Dark side!

    TT:
    Augment spell with the range of 24 inches. The unit gets the special rule “causes fear”.
    Cost: 4+.
    Can be improve to “terror” for 9+.

    TW:
    Duration: 30 seconds.
    200 Range?
    Target gets “causes fear” and base moral 5+.
    Interesting enough, the spell is stronger here as in the TT, thanks to the bonus moral. Thou the real difference will probably the way “fear” works. “Fear” causes a moral test that if not passed does not cause a rout but debuff the unit.
    It is quite possible that CA does this faithful or that they make it is“lower enemy moral” ability. We have to wait and see.
    Also worth mentioning is the fact that units which cause fear are immune themselves.

    No real uses for Vampires, since all of your units cause fear from the get go!

    Life-Leeching (Lore Attribute):
    Mhhh… it tastes just as my mom!

    TT:
    For every wound lost because of damage spells of this lore you roll a D6. If you roll a 5+, you gain an energy dice.

    TW:
    It pretty much works as in the TT. Thou again, more detail numbers are hopefully available when playing the game, on the “how much”.

    As for how useful it is for the Vampires. For the magic heavy Vampires a Lore which generate a part of its energy cost (and maybe even turn profit), can be very useful and since they are not interested in the augment, they have “free” skill points to go full damage.

    Soulblight:
    You were afraid what I would do to your body, while you should have been afraid of what I do to your soul.

    TT:
    It is a hex spell with 24 inches range. One unit suffer -1 strength and toughness.
    Cost: 9+.
    For 18+ the caster can affect all enemy units in range of 24 inches.

    TW:
    Duration: 20 seconds.
    200 range?
    Effect range 30 (the AE area apparently)
    Effects: -4 base moral
    -4 armour
    -5% missile damage
    -3 melee damage base.
    Now here is spell which could use a buff in terms of effects, when compared to the TT. While it has additional effects that it doesn’t have (including the direct area use) like moral and missile damage, the “core” seem to be lacking.
    In comparison Dwarf warriors (in the tunderfalls battle) had:
    Armour 80
    Base Moral 80
    Melee Damage 30
    While the moral thing is bonus, the armour and the melee damage base should be effect harder (about 20 and maybe 6) and maybe also a bit longer.
    Nevertheless it does help you to crimple enemy units and help to win.

    Doom&Darkness:
    The night is dark and full of terror.

    TT:
    Hex spell with 24 inches range, stays in the game. Enemy unit loses -3 moral.
    Cost: 10+.
    For 13+ you get a 48 inches range.

    TW:
    Duration: 30 seconds.
    200 range?
    -14 base moral
    So let’s see what we have here. On the one hand, the base moral value should, to be close to the TT around -30. On the other hand, the TT doesn’t automatically test your moral he way TW does. Means that a unit that got this hex on them, but is never force to test moral of any kind, doesn’t care for it. While in TW you test moral all the time.
    That “stay in game” wasn’t translated, is not a surprise, thou the duration is still short. I would hope that spells with “stay in game” will last at least around a minute and more, if not 2-3 minutes.
    As for the use of the spell: lowering moral in a TW itself is already useful. Considering the other spells which also use moral from this lore and you get a number of handy combinations.
    For Vampires, the concept of just scarring the **** out of your enemies is quite important. So every thing which helps with that should be welcome.

    Mid conclusion:
    Now since end the part where we have seen the spells, I think I should shortly review the way CA handled the spells. While there are some information’s missing, how exactly the spell works, the general direction stays close to the TT.
    We can only really judge 3 of the spells in terms of strength. One is better than in the TT, two feel weaker and the overall duration of spells seems short. A big question mark is of course what the higher levels of those spell do and how many there are. Are there only 2? Than it appears that they only get cool down reductions. What if they do have 3 or 5 levels? We have to wait and see.

    High level Spells

    The fate of Bjunas:
    Why so serious?

    TT:
    Damage spell with 12 inches range. Aim one single enemy model. You throw 2D6 minus the toughness of the model and get that numbers as hits. All hits wound at a 2+, no armour saves allowed. If the model survives, it stays “stupid” (moral check for moving).
    Cost: 13+.

    TW:
    It will be probably excellent against single targets. Even if the targets survives, it stays crippled (thou the details of “stupid” in the game are unknown). Range is a bit short thou.
    Good way to get rid of some of the more nasty enemies, like witchhunters for example (thou they have some magic resistance). Could be important to save your value Vampires dangers of duels.

    The Purple sun of Xereus:
    No sunscreen will save you from getting burned from this sun.

    TT:
    Damage Vortex spell that stays in the game. It uses the 3 template. The player places the template and nomination the direction the spell goes. Then he uses the artillery dice (2-10) and multiplies the result with 3. Ever model touched must pass an initiative test or die. Should the arty dice show malfunction that the template gets place about the caster. After that you use a D6 and the scatter dice.
    In both events, the sun stays in the game and move randomly till the arty dice shows a malfunction.
    Cost: 15+.
    For 25+ you get the big 5 inches template.

    TW:
    What can I say? This spell is similar to “The Wind of Death”: devastating damage, but also a big risk attached to it. While I personal I don’t believe that “classic” miscast will be in the game (aka you fail a spell and there is a chance that your lvl 30 wizard blows up), I do wonder what CA is gonna do with spells like this, where a certain “failure” state is already with in it.
    Also interesting will be the question how long it will be stay in the game (only 30 seconds?) and how much energy you gain from killing with this.
    It is a worthy replacement for the “Wind of Death” from the Vampire lore.

    Conclusion:
    The lore of death is a good support choice for a Vampire army, despite one of its spell getting useless (Aspect of the Dreadknight). You can weaken the enemy through hexes. The use of the damage spells in combination with the lore attribute is a good option to keep the Vampire magic machine running.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    The lore of Shadows

    Basic lore attribute:

    Smoke and Mirros:
    Now you see me, now you can’t!

    TT:
    Every time a spell form this lore is cast, the caster is allowed to swamp places with a friendly character within 18 inches.

    TW:
    This is a weird one. It basically means that for every spell you do, you can also teleport the caster. This can be total troll ability and is maybe also a good “rescue” option, in case one of your characters got himself into something they can’t handle.


    Melkoths mystifying Miasma (signature spell):
    The fog of war just got real.

    TT:
    Hex spell with 48 inches range. You can reduce the following attributes of 3D: initiative, Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Movement, to a minimum of 1.
    Cost: 5+.
    A more powerful version lowers all attributes for 10+.

    TW:
    Except for moral and damage, you can lower every enemy skill in the book. Thou I do wonder how CA will handle the “choose” the attribute part. It is quite possible that we only see the 2nd version of that spell, which is quite powerful.
    The spell has very good range and is relative cheap.

    Steed of Shadows:
    My little shadow pony.

    TT:
    Augment spell cast on the caster or a friendly character within 12 inches. Immediately moves 12 inches, as if it would be flying.
    Cost: 5+.

    TW:
    It is a cheap and perhaps early alternative to a flying mount. Also an additional “rescue” button, thou it would be important to know if the lore attribute comes first or second to this spell.
    It could be worth it in support of inexperience lords/heroes.

    The enfeebling foe:
    While the enemy strength is fading, yours is rising.

    TT:
    Remains in play. It is a Hex spell with 18 inches range. The enemy unit loses one D3 of strength, minimum 1.
    Cost: 10+.
    Range can be extended to 36 inches for 13+.

    TW:
    Reduce melee damage! What’s not to like about that?


    The Withering:
    The small voices in the back of your head, suddenly become bigger and bigger.

    TT:
    It is a hex spell with 18 inches range. An enemy unit loses one D3 toughness.
    Cost: 13+.
    Can be cast for 16+ to a 36 inches range and than improve .

    TW:
    Making the enemy more vulnerable to your attacks? “I jump in it” Thou the fact you can only target one unit is a bit sad, thou the TW version may be different from that.

    The penumbral Pendulum:
    “Every one knows that shadow wizards can only cast illusion. No way, that giant thing flying at us is real!” famous last words.

    TT:
    It is a damage spell that acts like a (solid) cannon ball. With a range of 6D6, starting from the caster. Every model test on initiative, when it fails, then it gets a strength 10 causing D3 wounds hit.
    Cost: 13+.
    For 18+, the range will be double (results of the 6D6 2x).

    TW:
    As with other spells with similar “cannonball” mechanic, I think this will become a very strong spell in TW. What is a bit different from other spells is the lore this spell is in.
    This lore has very good movement thanks to the attribute and the “shadow steed” and hence the flank shots are much easier to archive.

    High level spells:

    Pit of shades:
    We don’t know if the pit has 50 shades, but we are pretty sure that they are worst. At least it is a bit.

    TT:
    It is a damage spell that uses the small template (3 inches) and has a range of 24 inches. It scatters one D6.
    Enemies under the template must pass an initiative test or a remove without any saves.
    Cost: 14+.
    For 17+ you can use the big template (5 inches) and it scatters 2D6.

    TW:
    This spell brings the pain. Like the real pain. The only downside is that it scatters and can be hence dangerous to your own troops. But since a lot of your troops are… expendable, it is perhaps not that big of a risk at all, as long you use close to your zombies and not close to your Blood Dragons.

    Okkam’s Mindrazor:
    This razor cuts deeper than you think.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 18 inches range. Your unit uses its moral instead of its strength to wound enemies in close combat. All boni for strength through weapons are ignored.
    Cost: 18+.
    The range can be improved to 36 inches range for 21+.

    TW:
    Exchanging melee with the moral stat, should be very powerful. Except the fact that Vampire Counts units have terrible moral stats. Some of them have even lower moral, than strength (completely unusually for the TT). So from all possible races which could use this spell, the Vampires Counts are the weakest. Nevertheless: for the units which do have good moral, this spell is a powerful damage boost.

    Conclusion:
    Do you like hexes? When the answer is yes, then you will like this lore. While its effects can always be swinging in one way (2-3) or the other (1-2), you can crumble your opponents quite a bit in almost every stat available.
    The movement of this lore is another interesting aspect of this lore. When used on a vampire hero (not lord), it could be a good way to move him out or in harms way since they are cable fighters.
    The damage spells are pretty good as well and while it has only one augment spell and one that doesn’t work as well as with another races, it is still a pretty serious damage boost.
    So is it worth taking, instead of shadow or the vampire lore? I think yes. Especially when one master the use of the lore attribute.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 9,725Registered Users
    Chaos Warriors

    Lore of fire:

    Basic Lore Attribute:

    Kindleflame:
    Fire feeds fire.

    TT:
    All spells of this lore counts as “flame attack” (DUH!), if a damage spell of this lore is used against a enemy unit, which was already hit by one (this magic phase), than the caster gets a additional D3 on the energy rolls.

    TW:
    I’m generally speaking a big fan of everything that helps to gain/save energy, but in this case? I’m a bit unsure. This only applies to the damage spells and only when it is targeting the same unit.
    It is a “nice” addition, hardly more.


    Fireball (Signature spell):
    A true classic.

    TT:
    Damage spell with 24 inches range. D6 hits with strength 4.
    Cost: 5+.
    The caster can increase the range to 36 inches and 2D6 hits.
    Cost: 10+.
    Finally a caster can decided to increase the range to 48 and 3D6 hits for 18+.

    TW:
    I’m pretty sure that CA will simply turn it in a good AE spell. A bit more interesting are two questions:
    1. The spells has unusually for the TT, 3 tiers it can be use. Will this be reflected; by the ability to spend more skill points into this spell than others to improve it further?
    2. Can we use “fire” context sensitive? Can we use this spell to inflame an enemy gate? Woods? Cities?

    Cascading Fire-Cloak:
    Holds you warm better than any piece of clothing.

    TT:
    Remains in play. Augment spell is cast on the wizard and any unit he is in. At the end of each magic phase, all enemy units in base contact suffer 2D6 4 strength hits.
    Cost: 5+.

    TW:
    The biggest question will be simply: are you able to cast it on units?
    In the TT this only applies to units the wizards joins, a concept CA choose not to translate.
    If this only applies to the wizard, then I think this spell loses a lot of appeal.
    Thou for Chaos Warriors, where the wizards are also good in melee, this is less of a problem. It basically provides you with an additional shield for your wizard.
    In the case you can cast this on units, it could be great in guarding action (a bridge or gate) cases or if an elite unit got surrounded by enemies. Not great against enemy elite units, but against the masses it can be great help.

    Flaming Sword of Ruin:
    Hot stuff.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 24 inches range. All wound rolls (melee or range) add a +1, the attacks also count as magical and flame attacks.
    Cost: 8+.
    Increase in range to 48 for 11+.

    TW:
    More damage! Do you mind more damage? You shouldn’t. The two attributes this offer things to your attacks are also worth talking about:
    Being magical is great when fighting things which are enthral, since they are immune to conventional weapons.
    Flame attacks neglects regenerate, means that enemies like giants (rare, but strong) lose one of his best passive skills.
    In short: in improves damage and helps to solve two different problems certain enemies can cause. Maybe let’s you attack gates? It should become handy.

    The burning Head:
    Great special effect for every heavy metal concert!

    TT:
    Damage spell with works like a cannon ball (solid shot) with 18 inches range. All models hit (except caster) suffer strength 4 hit and any unit that suffers causalities through this spell must pass a moral test.
    Cost: 10+.
    Range can be extended to 36 inches for 13+.

    TW:
    As all “cannon ball” spells, I see this raise greatly in popularity when compared to the TT. The damage isn’t great, but against low armour units with relative bad moral, this spell can work wonders. Especially if you manage the flank shot and perhaps let a whole enemy flank collapse.
    Considering that Chaos Warriors caster are better fighters, the whole “flank shot” affair should be easier.

    Pirching bolts of Burning:
    The burns are real!

    Damage spell with 24 inches range. Each rank of an enemy unit with more than 4 models suffers D3 hits of strength 4.
    Cost: 10+.
    For 13+ you get 48 inches range

    TW:
    It is a pretty straight damage spell. The only question mark is how CA is going to translate that this spell is supposedly punishment for deep lines. My guess is that they simply make a it a nice AE damage spell.

    Fulminating Flame Cage:
    “This is for you own security…”

    TT:
    Hex spell with 24 inches range. If an enemy unit moves, for what ever reason, hit suffers D6 hits with strength 4.
    Cost: 11+.
    Range can be improved to 48 inches for 14+.

    TW:
    While you could argue that “hex” is a big word for this spell, but I think it will have a pretty useful role: skirmish cavalry defence.
    It hinders them to move, or cause damage. They will have neither the numbers nor the armour to tank the spell too often and the aiming of this spell should be easier than to do than for a fireball.
    For CW this could be useful since range is one of the big weak points.

    Flame Storm:
    The fire storm will roar louder than its victims!

    TT:
    Damage spell that use the small template (3 inches), it has 30 inches range. Scatters one D6, all models under it suffer strength 4 hits.
    Cost: 13+.
    For 16+ you can upgrade to the big template (5 inches), it also scatters 2D6.

    TW:
    Another AE damage spell? Well why not? Thou many elite units will not care, you could probably take a lot of the more standard troops (empire statetroops for example) in one shoot.

    Conclusion:
    The lore of fire has damage, a lot of it. And a lot of it is AE. This makes this lore great against the great masses, but against the more elite enemies I think most of the damage spells will miss a bit of bunch.
    From the two Augments, I think especially “Flaming Sword of Ruin” will be useful. More damage is always nice and the two special rules can come handy against some of the more nasty enemies.
    With those two facts in mind, what is the answer of the question: “Is this a good lore for Chaos Warriors?”
    I think the answer is a sounding: yes!
    While it isn’t great against other elite units, you have pretty much the best elites of the game! It gives you that extra punch on range and can help against enemies with strong numbers. This pretty much applies to everyone, except dwarfs.
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